Alienated Father Needs Help.

[CrenshawClark]

I am writing anyone and everyone I can who is an advocate for Alienated Fathers. My future, JT has been alienated from his daughter, MT. Dr. J. Michael Bone and Dr. Robert Evans are working on our case with Cordell and Cordell in Tampa FL. James has not seen his daughter in almost 2 years. We have all the evidence we need. Even a social investigation that states that this is a clear case of alienation. We are over 30 thousand dollars in to this custody battle that should come to some conclusion in February, as that is when the trial is set. We are financially exhausted. We have nothing left. Our retirements are empty. We have borrowed THOUSANDS from our parents. I am having a hard time understanding why, when we have a court ordered Social Investigation that states the child is basically being mentally abused by her mother who does not have the means to care for her (She has not had a job in 10 years, supported herself on frivolous lawsuits) , that we are having to PAY someone to protect her!!

JT filed for divorce in 10/2010, She filed a restraining order with 36 hand written pages of alligations, we were told that it would be handled in family court as part of the divorce proceedings. JT was even accused of violating it once. We recived the socila investigation which clearly paints the picture of a mentally ill woman so she did not attempt to extend the injunction...cause A YEAR LATER he is still not divorced nor has he seen his daughter. The judge ordered SUpervised visitations almost a year AFTER the last time he had seen MT, and they let her refuse. I don't understand how CPS came to our house and questioned James about something the mother reported 2 years after it supposedly happened, but we have a report that says she her mother is brainwashing her and CPS isn't envolved at all?!!?!!?!!? 

Are there any charities, organizations, dads groups or anything that could help us with our financial burdens... We do not know where we will get the money to continue and we fear that MT will never have a chance to be "normal" if we don't intercede and yet, it all comes down to the almighty dollar... 

Hopeless
CC
FL

[tigger]

Something's not adding up here.  October of 2010 was only 14 months ago, not nearly two years ago. 

[CrenshawClark]

He had been out of the house since January 2010, she would not let him "take" her EVER. So he did have a few visits in the mothers home between 1/2010 and 6/2010. After 4 months of repeated attempts to see his daughter he filed for divorce in the hopes of getting a court order.

Does that clear it up?? I did say ALMOST 2 years..

[CrenshawClark]

I also want to add that all investigations, the CPS case and the "Violation of the Injunction" were thrown out. James has been cleared of ALL wrong doing. He has taken all mental evaluations requested and even drug tests...all passed with flying colors.... BUT due to the "brain washing" his daughter is refusing....so we are waiting on the courts to do something about it.

[ocean]

Most divorces take over a year without the craziness you are dealing with. This will go on until you press the judge for a trial date. If you have a lawyer have them ask for it to be put in the trial calendar and no more hearings.

Were are you now? Is there another hearing set up? If she is not following the family court order, then you can file contempt of court for denying supervised visits.

Ask for court ordered counseling for child and father. This way he can talk to child without mom in room with a counselor who can help child sort it all out. Depending on the age of the child, it will be a hard uphill battle to fight and get rid of the brainwashing mom is causing.

Why does he have supervised visits?

[CrenshawClark]

Our trial date is 2/15/2012. But we do not have the money to pay the specialist to testify so we have hope the judge does the right thing. The judge ordered Supervised visitation ONLY cause they had not seen each other for about 8 months at the time. Since the child refussed the first visit, the judge has done NOTHING to rectify the situation.

[CrenshawClark]

Here is some icing for this "crap cake".... Cordell and Cordell informed us that our retainer is gone and they need 10K before trial in 2 weeks!!! Any sugestions on how to proceed Pro se?!?!!

[ocean]

Why so much for the retainer? Ask the lawyer, how much to represent you on 2/15 and that is it. Are you scheduled for a one day trial? Ask to hire them only for court dates. Some lawyers will work with you and let you do some of the leg work and evidence work.

If you do it yourself, have your old lawyer send the courts paperwork that they no longer represent you. Then call her lawyer and ask for any documentation that you should have and a list of their witnesses so you will be prepared.

Make a calendar since the judge ordered the supervised visits and highlight in once color all the days ex refused children to be available. Do you have proof of this, police reports. If you do, go get certified copies of those police reports.

Make questions for your ex:
1. Were you aware of the court order dated xx that says  the children and I will have supervised visits?
2. How come children were not ready for visit on xx dates?
3. If children do not want to go to school do you make them? Why is this different then visiting their father?

[CrenshawClark]

The trial is set to take 3 days!! Lisa @ Cordell and Cordell, has informed us that will cost 10k and it must be in the retainer BEFORE trial! We have depo's scheduled for Friday? Does Lisa have to come?!? At this point I am almost hysterical. I have even written my Congressman and Senators.. LOL!! As if there is anything they can do. The child refused the visitation. The mom showed up with her. BUT made sure she was asked if she wanted to see her dad by the staff everytime (we have that documented too).

Its just crazy... I just don't know what to do.

[ocean]

Where is the supervised visits taking place? Who ever is supervising should be having mom leave the room and child should be there with you and supervisor.

You have two choices, represent yourself on Friday as best you can or ask the court for a continuance as your lawyer is no longer representing you. This will buy you a few weeks to figure something out or hire a new lawyer for the day of the trial.

[CrenshawClark]

Thank you. JT and I have some pretty big decissions to make...  I must not be making myself clear.. After MT (his daughter) refussed the 3rd visit at the 1st place they would not set up any more appts for visits. The second plave interviewed her before even attempting to set up visits (after taking our $400) and stated she was refussing. There have been no attempts at visitation since early November because the court won't do anything about it!.

[CrenshawClark]

14 days until trial... JT's parents came up with the rest of the money!! Its a blessing and a curse... We sat down for "Family Meeting" and added up everything we had actually paid, not lost wages or gas for the hour drive to court or tolls or parking, just what we had PAID Drs, Investigators, visitation centers and LAWYERS!! Are you ready..... 56k to date....thats before JT's parents fork over the "Last"/"Next" 12-15k!!!!!

Anyhow... at this point I am complaining about the wrong things!!! I hope to be posting in 2 weeks with good news!! I really hope JT and MT get in the same room soon!!! Pray for us!!


We are gonna need lots of advice on what to do AFTER trial!!! That is when the real work helping MT will begin!!!

[txmom702]

You never did answer how old his MT is...  That will make a big difference.

[CrenshawClark]

She just turned 11. She was 9 the last time her father saw her. Sorry. 11 more days!!

[CrenshawClark]

Depos done... Over  90% of the questions were about money... I was SHOCKED!! Probably shouldn't have been... but it has NEVER been about the money for us...only in the capacity of wasting it on lawyers!! So sad.... I really just thought she was crazy... this is worse.... To think that MT has had to go through this over child support that we will and have always been willing to pay... Makes no sense!!!

[CrenshawClark]

1st day of trial went great!!! 

[tigger]

Details?

[solomonsword]

Please please Crenshaw, let us know how things went.  I am new to ths forum and this site. I hope people who post here [and get concerned replies and as much help as can be given] dont just silently disappear when a resolutiuon's been had.

[lost child]

It would be a wonderful thing if we could all come together and support one another . Maybe if we did this we could get some justice for our children . The laws is not going to change by itself that i can promise . At the end of the day a child is fatherless and both child and father is heart Broken. And the MOTHER well she is a WOMEN and with all the RIGHTS. It is amazing how many ALIENATED FATHERS there are in the U.S land of the free for all  read the fine print  EXCLUDES ALL FATHERS . Fathers are ALIENATED by the mothers , courts , judges , lawyers and then god forbid if you are bothered with child support unit they can and will do more to you than you think. OH I forgot to mention the Mothers side of the family they to can ALIENATE the father and say mean and hateful things to the child about there FATHER who ever does this let me tell you - STOP IT YALL ARE HURTING OUR CHILREN we are not taking this anymore WE Are Fathers and proud of it We Can and Will SUPPORT Each Other ....NOW this is the beginning to make sure dads count to. Lets get Fathers Rights - Lets commite 10 minutes each day to write in  respone to someone to encourage a father to keep fighting a good fight for the children sake or to give someone advise lets do something Our children will thank us for this. Any father out there that has sons well do you want them to go through this?? this is our chance to make a difference for our sons future and to have better wife's for our sons.COMMIT NOW.

[father luv]

I agree with this i will commmit to this at least 10 minutes a day becouse women have all the rights and men have none. This is my first time on this site. It sounds like I'am not alone in this world. The law is really not fair to fathers and our children.

[MixedBag]

It happens to mothers too...

Been here since this place was started....because not one more child needs to go through this

[CrenshawClark]

Sorry I have not been on here in a while.. I can say that in trial EVERYTHING went our way...EVERYTHING!!! It has been 21 days since the trial ended and we are still waiting on a judgement!!!! We're going NUTS!!! As soon as we have a judgement I will let everyone know how it goes... While we are anxious to hear what the Judge finally has to say, the stress levels around our house have dropped considerably since the trial ended!!! When I tell you that EVERYTHING went our way...EVERYTHING!! The Social investigator said the child had been coached, that the child showed no anxiety when talking about vacations she went on with her father alone AND that she believes that the mother has INTENTIONALLY ALENATED MT FROM HER FATHER. Dr. Evan WAS great!! The mother couldn't give a single example of abuse. AND the judge threw out all of her evidence. And 3 of her witnesses, because they were irrelevant or repetitive... So...now we continue to WAIT!!!!! Thank you so much!!! You have no idea how helpful this board has been...especially to my sanity, its nice to know you are not alone!!!

[ocean]

Call the courts and see if it is ready. Here you can get it up to a week early if you go with your license and prove who you are and get the results instead of waiting at the mailbox. Sounds great!!!

[CrenshawClark]

We emailed our attorney Friday...she said it could take UP TO 30 days...and that is is not good to bother the judge!?!? So we will wait... We are at 15 day since the Judge received that last "Petition for Divorce"... At the worst it's 2 more weeks...right??? .   Seems like I have been saying "this can't go on much longer" forever!!!

[ocean]

Don't call the judge, just the clerk's office and see if it is there yet. Judge won't know you called.

[CrenshawClark]

Thank you... I'll try that! 

[CrenshawClark]

We got the judgment last night. The judge was fair in the money department, assets and child support.

She has given BM 15 days to contact JT so they can hire a parental coordinator. BM has a list of evaluations and classes she has to complete and it will be up to the parental coordinator to report to the court if she is doing it. If BM and JT can not agree on a now therapist for MT in 15 days Dr. Evans will pick one. The therapist and the parental coordinator are to be see all court documents and be briefed by the social investigator. As soon as the therapist says MT is ready the parental coordinator is to report to the Judge and she will issue a new time sharing schedule.

That being said, the judge made it very clear that she knows BM is a liar and that she knows BM intentionally alienated MT from JT. The judge made it clear that she is TEMPORARILY leaving MT with BM on the condition that BM complete ALL recommendations of the court, social investigator and parental coordinator with in the time restraints given.

It is clear from the order that the judge is telling BM this is her one chance to make it right. The judge wrote the order in such a way that it is clear that if BM does not comply and participate in the re-unification that she is willing to remove MT from her mother. Part of the final order is actually testimony from Dr. Evans saying that if " the Alienating parent does not have the ability to stop the alienation the only way to insure the child's relationship with the alienated parent is to remove the alienating factor.".

JT and I feel like this is a win for us. While we did not get full custody, we knew that was a long shot. What we did get is a clear warning from the judge to BM that she is willing to "remove the alienating factor" if BM can't comply.

[MixedBag]

That almost sounds like a line straight out of Divorce Poison.

Good luck!

It's not over.....but a Chapter that sounds like it went in the right direction.

[Simplydad]

JT and I feel like this is a win for us. While we did not get full custody, we knew that was a long shot. What we did get is a clear warning from the judge to BM that she is willing to "remove the alienating factor" if BM can't comply.

Definately sounds like a victory to me for you guys.  From the outside looking in it seems the BM is being given just enough rope to hang herself.  It is also an opportunity for her to do right by the child but what I have noticed from personal experience people with the type of personality of the BM don't have the capability to do what is in the best interest of the child.

Completing the courses will help her become a better parent but she will have to want to do it.  If not.....she will lose big time in the end.

[CrenshawClark]

Update... We have heard nothing. Not a peep. Monday is 15 days...  However, it is typical of her and her attorney to fail to respond or take action until the 13th hour... So we will see.... Another month has passed... Can't wait to finally get the ball rolling! I feel like if we can get it started there is nothing she can do to stop it!!! Now that the court knows exactly who she is, it will be much harder for her to pull any of her tricks... Heres to hopeing... Thanks for letting me vent... I will try to keep you updated as to how it goes.. maybe my notes will be helpful to someone else...

[Kitty C.]

'I feel like if we can get it started there is nothing she can do to stop it!!! Now that the court knows exactly who she is, it will be much harder for her to pull any of her tricks...'

Maybe she realizes it, too.  Thus the reason for dragging her feet.  If it goes on too long, you may have to ask the court to intervene to get the process moving.  Sanctions against her atty. might do the trick.

[CrenshawClark]

the order gives her until close of business Monday. We will be filing for an emergency hearing Tuesday AM if we still have not heard anything... 13th hour...that is why this has taken almost 2 years now!!

[ocean]

Doesn't the order read if she does not make contact or you both can't agree than Dr. Evans picks, so first thing have Dr. Evans pick!