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Grandchild 1 Year Old - Haven't Seen Him Yet

Started by Sadgram, Jul 08, 2014, 08:54:57 AM

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Sadgram

Our son moved in with his fiancee and her parents in 2012, about 2 hours from home. Immediately he realized it was a mistake. The parents were very odd. But he loved the girl so he stayed. They had a baby last summer. The step-dad kept losing his job, they kept getting evicted - our son went into debt keeping them in groceries & paying bills. One month after the baby was born (and once the step-dad got a job) they kicked our son out so they wouldn't have to help him pay debts. He was devastated, lived in his van. He called them to ask to see his baby - they lied in court to get a restraining order.

He moved to a trailer, tried to stay near the baby but he was becoming despondent, finally moved home. We got a loan to pay his debts, and hired a lawyer. She has been a big waste of money, waits on us to do everything. I've become like a private eye, looking into these people's past. What I found was frightening! The ex-fiancee's mom was tried for murdering her own mother. She neglected her, starved her, spent all her money. And she used restraining orders to keep her family from seeing her mother. Same tactics she's using on my son to keep him from his child.

The woman got a plea bargain - served no real prison time - was on probation in her house for a year. That isn't punishment, it's a vacation. Now, this woman is raising our grandson, refuses to allow visitation. The ex-fiancee is her mother's puppet, follows her commands blindly. Our son still loves her, so do we. I think if she could escape her mother's control she could be okay, though she may be bipolar like her mother.

The custody trial is in 2 months. Our son hasn't seen the baby since he was 1 month old. We've never seen him, except in photos the ex posted on FB last December. We can't afford a better lawyer - our credit card is almost empty.

I'm at a loss as to what to do. I think our son needs to have some kind of mediation with the ex, to see how she is feeling, without her mother there to keep her under control. The mother is all about collecting people for her "mini-cult" as I call it. I'm so afraid she'll do something drastic as the time for the trial gets closer.

The lawyer doesn't like to talk to me, even though I and my husband paid her retainer twice. Should I ignore that and tell her what we'd like to do? I believe all she cares about is the custody battle, the thrill of winning. If my son could reconcile with his ex and raise the child together he'd be happy. I just don't know if that's even feasible. But how will we know if we can't arrange some kind of mediation?

Thanks for reading this - I know it's awfully long.


ocean

Really nothing you can do until court date to see child. Is the restraining order still active? If it is, he has to keep away from her and no contact. You can ask your lawyer to send their lawyer a letter asking for mediation but my guess is grandma will say no way. If the RO is lifted, does bio mom have a job that he can go see her at and drop off letter to. No words, just letter saying he would like to see if they can work something out by themselves. But once again, if bio mom is living with grandma not really going to work out.

What are you looking for in the custody trial? A judge almost never takes away custody from mom so you should be looking at joint custody (both parents make decisions for baby, medical and educational) and a parenting plan for each parent. 2 hours is not so bad, you can meet half way or he goes gets child at beginning of visit and she comes gets him at end. Have your son take a parenting class at library or social service. Take a CPR class. Looks great for court.

Family court really does not care about people's past for the most part. They look at how that person reacts to child and which parent and co-parent better. Child is very young and there are many different parenting plans you can do depending on your sons work schedule. Grandparents do not have many rights so this all has to come from your son and what he can do for child.

Sadgram

The restraining order runs out around the same time as the custody hearing date. The bio mom lives with her mother and stepfather, has no income of her own, is totally dependent on them for everything, she doesn't even drive.

The lawyer is asking for joint custody with our son as the primary parent. The parenting class is a good idea. He used to work at a nursing home, has a CPR certificate. Right now he works as an electrician, 10 hour days 4 days a week with a lot of overtime. He lives with us and we're fixing up a room for the baby so I guess we'll be part of the parenting plan. Thanks for your quick response.

ocean

You will NOT be part of the parenting plan as father lives with you. This lawyer is not too good about telling you about family court.
1. He will mostly likely never be primary parent, go for 50/50 but her not having a job and living with her parents does not weight into family court.
2. Restraining orders are usually extended so be ready for that but ask how does HE see baby and still have RO in place. Sometimes a third party brings child...
3. If he works all that OT and long days, that may go against him as he is not home and baby can be with mother. Parents come first over grandparents.
4. A judge will not take an infant from "mommy" and give him to dad especially when dad has not seen baby. Maybe have a heart to heart with this lawyer, unless child protective services are involved this will not happen. Distance also is an issue with 50/50 placement as you are far away too but that can be handled until school age.
5. Maybe pay for an hour to another lawyer and ask for an honest response. You are spending a lot of money to fight for primary when he could be putting his energy towards 50/50 or a very good detailed parenting plan.

Look on here for parenting plans..... if it is not written , you do not have it so be detailed as you can. Write one up for your lawyer to look at. People sometimes forget: fathers day, halloween, and father and child's birthday, what happens on long weekends and when holidays are combined to a weekend (monday holidays, can baby stat over from weekend).... post the plan here and we can help you tweak it.

Sadgram

Wow - I was afraid this lawyer was naive but...

I guess we'll work out a parenting plan and we might consult with another attorney. Our son needs to know the reality of the situation. I'm copying your response to show to him. Thank you!

MixedBag

Ocean is spot on with the advice!  good luck!

Sadgram

Thanks! I'm afraid we're going to need a miracle.

ocean

Sorry to be so blunt but wanted you to know what you are up against. Trial is in 2 months, don't expect it to go that day or just be one day. There is usually a few hearings to see if you can work it out in the hall between parties. Sometimes hearings and trials takes months to years. So do not go crazy buying things just yet. I know it is hard but set up a bedroom but overnights might not happen for quite a while. Hopefully your family court will move quicker.

The ONLY thing I would tell that lawyer is, I want a temporary visitation plan to see my child out of this next court date, nothing else. The lawyer can ask for a law guardian for child to help set up times and eventually a schedule. Sometimes they help, sometimes they get in the way.

Can your lawyer request in writing to mom/lawyer for meeting place with third party to see baby at public place for an hour or two? Request and then you can show you tried....as long as RO does not include baby. Can be a public library...if no answer, then you will have to wait for courts to give an order.

What state are you in?

Sadgram

#8
Well, see that's part of the problem. They moved to XXX right before the baby was born (he was born in a XXX hospital, though, because the bio mom had set that up beforehand). We are in mid XXX, about two and a half hours away.

The other grandmother instigated all of this, but of course the bio mom went along with it. They even tried to make our son think he'd signed away his parental rights somehow but they dropped that lie fairly quickly once we got a lawyer.

Our lawyer did manage to get social services to check on the baby by showing them articles about the other grandmother's murder trial. But it took them forever to go out there. I know these legal & social workers are overwhelmed and tired but they seem so blase about things that would make an average person's skin crawl. I've read the articles - it makes me physically ill knowing our grandchild lives with that woman.

ocean

What state is court?
Possible chance to keep it by you with an aggressive lawyer...

Sadgram

#10
The court is in xx since the bio mom lives there. We couldn't get a xx lawyer to take the case.

Sadgram

#11
Quote from: Sadgram on Jul 08, 2014, 03:57:48 PM
The court is in xx since the bio mom lives there. We couldn't get a xx lawyer to take the case.

They didn't want to take the case because the child was living in xx. Thought I'd clarify that.

ocean

Yeah, lawyer would have to file by you and say she left state, and father is demanding child returned to home state. She can live there but child stays in your state.... Would have to be done right when she left, then she would have had to come to your state for court.

MixedBag

Sadgram.....you're lots of steps ahead of the game because you found this place.  I just wanna add that the could have, should have, would have thoughts that you're having.....well, they're natural and many folks going into this have no real clue as to how difficult Family Court can be.

Many times moving swiftly is the answer, and then again, you start asking yourself are you jumping the gun?  Maybe they can work things out?  All this is very natural.....take a deep breath, look at the cards you have now, and play them well.

Sadgram

Thanks, Mixed Bag. All along I've wanted to reach out to the bio mom. She's had a hard life, basically living like a refugee with that mother, moving from house to house every few months, never knowing stability. And her pregnancy was rough, which added fuel to the delusions her mother has been feeding her.

I'm thinking I will write her a long, truthful letter, letting her know how my son and I feel, and asking her to resolve this amicably before we all get stuck in the black hole that is family court. The lawyer can deliver it to her lawyer. We are all exhausted - emotionally, physically and financially - I honestly don't want this to get ugly - or to put a spotlight on her mother's past - but I will do whatever is necessary to keep my grandchild from growing up with a convicted murderer.

Lack of finances kept us from being able to move quick when this happened. And then when we were finally able to hire a lawyer she seemed to let things drag on endlessly. We've got to find a way to take the wheel and steer a straight course before it's too late.

I've read horror stories about the things desperate people have done to avoid losing custody of a child - and the bio mom's mother is a prime candidate for that kind of tragedy. It's scary.

I'm trying to breathe deep and be strong. Very hard to do after the year we've had. I am glad I found this forum.

MixedBag

Well, don't expect the letter to be well received or that it will change anything.  Many times the advice is to write what you feel and throw it away...  UNTIL the other side is ready to listen and actually hear what you're saying.  Doesn't seem like that's the case yet.

Concessions, agreements, can happen at any time even if there's on going court proceedings.....NORMALLY they happen within the HOUR before court.  Seriously....when the other side finally wakes up and realizes that they may lose is when they wake up.....Believe me, I dealt with a very wonderful ex-husband and he "stood his ground" and got burned by the judge -- and it wasn't until that happened that he started acting human.  But you'd think he learned his lesson?  Oh no....during the next round, he acted like a fool in front of the judge -- and to this day, blames his two attorneys, the three judges, and the GAL for the lack of success he saw in court.  I was pro se.....but I was (well for the most part) right in what I was asking.  Doesn't mean the courts always agreed with me or my point.....but I was successful.

Sadgram

Well, I've got to try something. I just don't know how we can get through a court hearing. Our whole family is made up of shy introverts. We've never even had dealings with the law before, beyond a speeding ticket or a car wreck. I'm afraid we'll all have panic attacks!

But the bio mom is prone to panic attacks, too, so maybe she'd like a way out of going to court as well.

Thanks for the responses!

ocean

Be careful with the restraining order ...are you named? HE can not have any contact and usually writing a letter counts. He may be arrested for third party contact by bio mom saying you are contacting her on behalf of your son...which he is not allowed to do.

Tell his lawyer in no uncertain terms, you are willing to negotiate and offer mediation with mom and dad only in the room. Some courts make you do mediation first. Bottom line is you want mediation or temporary visitation plan by the end of that hearing...and in court, you will stay away from negotiations as long as lawyer insists grandma walk away so the parents can negotiate. Grandma and you will probably not be allowed in court room unless you are testifying. Parents only with their lawyers. Support your son and everyone in your family MUST remain calm no matter what ...lawyers will try to get you and your family. Remain calm, only speak directly to judge or lawyer, never to mom. Judge wants to see which parent keeps it together. She will lie about you and your family so be ready for that.

Sadgram

You're right. I've been going over the emails the lawyer sent to my son and it gave me a reality check. If the bio mom is refusing any visitation then she is too far under her mother's control. All we can do is get our house in order and hold steady. I hope we can handle it. My 81 year old mom keeps asking when she can see the baby. It's a brutal situation.

Thanks again!

Peace

Sadgram

Wow - this morning I sent a long email to my son's lawyer, a heart to heart thing as you all suggested. She blew me off like a feather! Said she's doing everything she possibly can and MY SON can call her Monday with any concerns HE has. I felt like I'd been slapped in the kisser.

If I had the money I'd ditch her right now but I guess she knows she has us over a barrel. This doesn't look good for our custody hearing if she's not even open to suggestions.

My heart is really crushed. But I guess I should've known better.

ocean

You are not her client (even if you paid the bill) and she really can not do much until the court date. She can contact other side to see if they will allow anything but with the RO in place, hard as your son can not be in same area as bio mom.
Maybe have son call with a few direct questions:
1. Should he switch to ask for joint custody as a judge will not take an infant from mom without major issues, especially out of state?
2. Ask her to send a letter to other lawyer asking for mediation and visitation through a third party so he does not go against the restraining order. They can legally say no to both , but you tried. You will pay for this, lawyer is going to charge for talking to you today, talking to son and sending off a letter. ...so as hard as it is, pick you battles.

Also, BACK off the lawyer...prep your son as best you can but you need to let HIM do this. Any communications need to be done by son (sorry if we did not make that clear....this is his battle and you/family can back him but you will hinder his case if you seem "pushy" and "demanding" things.

Family court is VERY slow....and this case has a LOT of issues......two states, infant, travel time, grandmother issues, he has not seen child, .....all things courts have seen but takes time to straighten out. Stay calm and keep active with other things until the court date. Nothing you can do today...tomorrow...sorry you are going through this...court is very hard on everyone.

Sadgram

Thanks! I feel like a fool but at least I'm not alone in this.

I've always had a strong bit of ESP - it's overwhelming at times - keeps telling me this will end badly if we don't act on it quickly. But my hands are tied.

We've always steered clear of any kind of government institution - even homeschooled our kids - so this whole thing goes against our basic values - and we're powerless to stop it. But that's the reality of modern society, I guess:(

I'm going to go drown my sorrows in some mindless TV entertainment and try hard not to freak out.




Sadgram

Is there some way to delete this thread? I'm afraid our lawyer (or my son's ex's lawyer) might find it. We have no more money for another lawyer if she drops us. Thanks.

Waylon

#23
Quote from: Sadgram on Jul 11, 2014, 01:03:29 PMWow - this morning I sent a long email to my son's lawyer, a heart to heart thing as you all suggested. She blew me off like a feather! Said she's doing everything she possibly can and MY SON can call her Monday with any concerns HE has. My heart is really crushed. But I guess I should've known better.

Unless I missed something, you are not the lawyer's client- your son is. It's not really proper for her to discuss details of the case or plan strategy with a 3rd party.
The trouble with reality is that there's no background music.

Sadgram

I have acquired permission to discuss the case with my son's lawyer. I'm just afraid that some of these people will see what I've said here and use it against us. My son's ex has a new very young male lawyer who seems to be out to make a reputation for himself, at our expense.

Waylon

Quote from: Sadgram on Jul 30, 2014, 08:53:21 AMMy son's ex has a new very young male lawyer who seems to be out to make a reputation for himself, at our expense.

Dump him like a hand grenade and get an experienced family lawyer.
The trouble with reality is that there's no background music.

Sadgram

I said our son's EX has the new lawyer. Look, is Ocean on here at all? I need to know how to delete this thread.

ocean

I am not a moderator.... I can not delete threads.

Davy

Deleting this thread is the least of issues given that you are interfacing with the opposing attorney with the blessings of your son's attorney.

Waylon's advice would be a starting point.

Sadgram

There seems to be a failure of communication here. I AM NOT talking to the ex's lawyer. My son gave HIS lawyer permission to talk to me, because I've been doing all the PI work on the case. Geez.

I've sent messages to all 3 moderators to delete this thread. Don't know what else I can do.

Waylon

Quote from: Sadgram on Aug 01, 2014, 08:12:53 AMI've sent messages to all 3 moderators to delete this thread. Don't know what else I can do.

We can edit out some of the identifying information but we rarely delete threads altogether. If you want to discuss editing some of the info in your posts, send me an email at the address I sent you in a PM.
The trouble with reality is that there's no background music.

Sadgram

Just take out the two states I mentioned then. Would that be okay? I'm not going to answer through my email - just one of my rules.

MixedBag

OK, I fixed your posts and "XX'd" out the states.  I agree with leaving the thread so that others may learn from your experiences....

And I never got an e-mail asking for assistance....

Waylon owns the board -- Ocean is simply very smart in the advice that's given.

Me -- tag a long from day one....


Sadgram

I'm sorry, MixedBag, I sent private messages on here to the 3 moderators listed at the top. Anyway, thank you very much for your help! And thanks to everyone else as well.