BM wants me (SM) to adopt SS's. Please Help ASAP

[AtOurWitsEnd]

Please help. BM's lawyer called and said that BM wants to make a deal. She wants me to adopt the 2 boys that have been living with us for 2 years. She says she is willing to give up her rights. What I need to is, her lawyer makes it sound like we just sign some paper and WHAM it's done. We have 2 days to decide or the deals off and we can't get a lawyer that fast. Is it that easy? And what steps do I take afterwards? How do I get my name on their B.C. and seal the orginals? What do I do after we sign the papers?

[Jade]

>Please help. BM's lawyer called and said that BM wants to
>make a deal. She wants me to adopt the 2 boys that have been
>living with us for 2 years. She says she is willing to give up
>her rights. What I need to is, her lawyer makes it sound like
>we just sign some paper and WHAM it's done. We have 2 days to
>decide or the deals off and we can't get a lawyer that fast.
>Is it that easy? And what steps do I take afterwards? How do I
>get my name on their B.C. and seal the orginals? What do I do
>after we sign the papers?


Have them fax you (or overnight, at their expense) the paperwork.  AND get a lawyer that fast.  You don't want this messed up.  Perhaps your husband's divorce attorney?  Or a friend who is an attorney (offer to pay, of course)?

One thing that you will give up by adopting them is that the bm doesn't have to pay child support ever.  You will be taking on that responsibility.  

[HelpingHands]

Ditto the faxing or overnighting the information.

I don't think this is something to do without at least taking the papers to an attorney and allowing them to review the documents and give you an idea on how to proceed.

I would not make a deal to cut off all visitation rights to the little girl. What she is proposing is selling/trading 2 boys for 1 girl. I don't think a judge would agree to that type of arrangement anyways. They are blood. They need to spend time with their sister. That proposal goes to show for her mental status.

[mistoffolees]

>Please help. BM's lawyer called and said that BM wants to
>make a deal. She wants me to adopt the 2 boys that have been
>living with us for 2 years. She says she is willing to give up
>her rights. What I need to is, her lawyer makes it sound like
>we just sign some paper and WHAM it's done. We have 2 days to
>decide or the deals off and we can't get a lawyer that fast.
>Is it that easy? And what steps do I take afterwards? How do I
>get my name on their B.C. and seal the orginals? What do I do
>after we sign the papers?

In principle, it's that simple, although I think the court has to approve it (I don't know if they would be likely to object or not).

First, get an attorney. Now. Even if you can't make the 2 day deadline, don't rush into this. It's like buying a car- when they tell you the deal's only good today, they're lying. If it's good today, it's probably good tomorrow.

Look real hard at the pluses and minuses:

1. You take on full responsibility for everything the kids ever do. Finances are all your responsibility. College. Their first car. Weddings. Etc.

2. In principle, I would argue that it's no deal unless the BM never contacts the kdis again. In my case, my stbx's 1st husband wanted us to adopt the kids, but he wanted to stay in their lives. Why in the world would we do that? We'd pick up all the expenses, but he'd stay around to annoy us and the kids. If they're proposing that, I'd tell them to forget it. If you're taking away her financial responsibility, she should be out of the picture entirely.

Of course, that creates a problem with the kids. If they're close to her, it's probably in their best interest for her to stay in their lives. That means you're back to you picking up the financial responsibllity, but she gets to keep the good stuff (contact with the kids).

3. You can't undo it. The kids are your problem forever.

The real issue becomes, what happens if you and your husband ever get divorced (or he dies or becomes disabled). Do you want to be paying child support for these kids who weren't yours to start with?

On the positive side, of course, many step-parents are already acting like parents and love their kids dearly and don't mind taking care of them.

Given the impact on the kids, and the likelihood that she wants to pawn off her financial responsibility but still stay involved (or the likelihood that the kids will be harmed if she DOESN'T stay involved), I'm pretty biased against the idea. Get yourself a good family practice attorney to discuss your options.

[AtOurWitsEnd]

She doesn't want to stay involved at all. She NEVER wants anything to do with them. SHe already are and have for the last 2 years, been responsible for them financially. She hasn't paid a penny in CS.

The judge has already given the go ahead to sign the papers.

IF my DH and I divorce, I will retain custody of the kids. ALL of them. We have papers stating that, it was the one stipulation to me even considering it in the first place.

When we asked the kids how they felt about it the jumped all over the house with glee and wouldn't calm down for the entire night. The NEVER want to see her either.

[AtOurWitsEnd]

Any idea where an attorney is that would do that w/o a large fee? We live in oklahoma.

[mistoffolees]

>She doesn't want to stay involved at all. She NEVER wants
>anything to do with them. SHe already are and have for the
>last 2 years, been responsible for them financially. She
>hasn't paid a penny in CS.
>
>The judge has already given the go ahead to sign the papers.
>
>IF my DH and I divorce, I will retain custody of the kids. ALL
>of them. We have papers stating that, it was the one
>stipulation to me even considering it in the first place.
>
>When we asked the kids how they felt about it the jumped all
>over the house with glee and wouldn't calm down for the entire
>night. The NEVER want to see her either.
>


Please don't think I'm suggesting a decision for you - I just wanted to make sure you had considered all the repurcussions. Sounds like you have.

Good luck.

[Sunshine1]

Where does she fit into all of this?  Is she seriously saying you can have the boys exclusively, but then you are going to give me the daughter?

What is she proposing for her?

[AtOurWitsEnd]

Yes, that is what she is saying. After reveiwing the laws in our state, however, I have found a loophole. Apparently, if rights are signed away under duress, then they can be undone.

In our case, it is duress as we have no ohter option to save these kids. You would not believe the things we have been though and all the avenues we have exhausted. This state in particular is very anti dad and no matter what she does or how much proof we have, she always skates away. We even have pics of what she has done and witnesses ans so on yet she still gets to visit them if we go to court. This is the ONLY way we have to save them.

So, that being the case, once they are adopted over, we will then be hiring an attorney and fighting for the daughter. We ahven't given up, just taking the steps one at a time.

[escape2paradise]

How can the courts agree to relinquishments of the parental rights to the girl?  For the boys I can see as you are there to take the place of mom.  Does BM have a husband willing to adopt?  If not, that would be unheard of.

[AtOurWitsEnd]

No, the BM has no one else to adopt the daughter.

In part, the courts agreed b/c they know the same thing I do, this is being done under duress and therefore can be revoked.

[mistoffolees]

>No, the BM has no one else to adopt the daughter.

Then the courts should not allow you to relinquish your rights.

>
>In part, the courts agreed b/c they know the same thing I do,
>this is being done under duress and therefore can be revoked.

Something smells fishy.

Few courts will knowingly endorse an agreement that they know is unenforceable and not in a child's best interest. At worst, it creates a nightmare. At best, they could invalidate the part about the daughter going to BM, but that would open up the entire agreement and BM could argue that you can't have the boys. It all becomes a big, expensive mess. I'm surprised that the court would allow that.

You really need to have an attorney involved.

[escape2paradise]

I agree with Mist!  Something isn't right and I would definitely get an attorney now.  The fact that they are in such a hurry just spells TROUBLE!  I know you want to believe that it is just that straightforward, but I can't help but feel that the old saying "if it's too good to be true, it usually is"  applies here.  Good luck and keep us posted!

[AtOurWitsEnd]

I took all of your advice and called an attorney. He is going to go over the paperwork w/ us BEFORE we sign anything and make sure everything is in order.

As for something smelling fishy, you're right. BM lives in a different county and apparently the adoption has to be done in the county in which the kids reside, which is our county.

We should know more tomorrow. I will definately keep you posted, you all have helped me so much with this just by vaildating my own concerns.

[Sunshine1]

I don't get it, am I really slow or am I reading this right?

Your going to adopt the boys, by that I mean the BM is going to sign away her parental rights and you are going to adopt.  AND

Your DH is going to give up his parental rights to the daughter?  Are you out of your minds?

How the hell does that make any sense? Duress or not, what's done is done, and I don't know how you are going to save the daughter by giving up his rights to her!?  We all know that courts are mom friendly so if she wants to get them back it could probably be done, but if he wants his daughter back, it ain't going to work that way.

I say  DON'T DO IT!  The only reason she is offering this up is because she is really worried and wants you to go away!  She wants to keep the daughter...and give up her sons?  She needs a Psych Eval.  I bet if you motion for that, you get the daughter as part of the deal.

[mistoffolees]

>I don't get it, am I really slow or am I reading this right?
>
>Your going to adopt the boys, by that I mean the BM is going
>to sign away her parental rights and you are going to adopt.
>AND
>
>Your DH is going to give up his parental rights to the
>daughter?  Are you out of your minds?
>

That's pretty much my view. Something smells very, very fishy here. Kids aren't meant to be traded like playing cards. And I would not count on being able to reverse the move later because it was 'under duress'. I think the standard for proving duress is considerably higher than the OP does.

[AtOurWitsEnd]

After our last DHS investigation, a psych was ordered for her. Problem is, she refuses to take an the courts won't enforce it. We really have no other option. If you could see the things she has done to these boys and how screwed up they are b/c of it and if you've been through w/ the courts what we've been through, you would see that no matter what we do, we are going to lose something. It is not an easy thing to decide but when you've tried everything else to protect the kids and it hasn't worked, then you are presented w/ a way to keep them safe forever and ALIVE then how do you say no?

I know how it sounds, believe me, I have had many sleepless nights over this and my heart is torn in pieces. If there was ANY OTHER way to make it happen, we would.

[escape2paradise]

That poor little girl is going to have some serious issues as she gets older.  An obviously pyscho mom and a dad who literally sold her out.  It's a very sad situation.

[mistoffolees]

>After our last DHS investigation, a psych was ordered for
>her. Problem is, she refuses to take an the courts won't
>enforce it. We really have no other option. If you could see
>the things she has done to these boys and how screwed up they
>are b/c of it and if you've been through w/ the courts what
>we've been through, you would see that no matter what we do,
>we are going to lose something. It is not an easy thing to
>decide but when you've tried everything else to protect the
>kids and it hasn't worked, then you are presented w/ a way to
>keep them safe forever and ALIVE then how do you say no?
>
>I know how it sounds, believe me, I have had many sleepless
>nights over this and my heart is torn in pieces. If there was
>ANY OTHER way to make it happen, we would.

Why won't the courts enforce it? You need to get your attorney involved. If she was ordered to take a psych eval and refuses, the court has grounds to change the cusotdy  - without you bartering your daughter away.

[Sunshine1]

I think you are making a gigantic mistake by doing this.  And believe me I know where you are coming from with abuse, allegations, and the bullsh*t that goes on. We are 80,000 in the hole combined from all of our crap.  BM has tried everything to accusing me of sleeping with my 9 year old SS to having the city planner pull an old building permit to make sure my roof was in code.

You name it, it has happened to us.  And that is just on the BM side.  My lovely EX's new wife is Bi-polar, boy is she a load of fun.  Everything from death threats to me, my children, and herself if I don't give in to her demands, to beating our handicapped son and then calling the cops on me, because she just rescued him from my attempt on his life (when it was an innocent exchange)

There is nothing that you can tell me that would be different from any other story on here.  There are stories way worse than yours and mine, and I have NEVER once seen someone barter their children to save just 2.  There is a reason she is up to no good, and if your lawyer doesn't file contempt for failing to take the psych eval, and then motion for emergency custody of the daughter, then why did you start this in the first place?  Just to save 2 of his children?...We'll try in a couple years to get the 3rd one.

This is not the way to go, and I can't keep it to myself, you need to keep going until they are all 3 together.

[mistoffolees]

>That poor little girl is going to have some serious issues as
>she gets older.  An obviously pyscho mom and a dad who
>literally sold her out.  It's a very sad situation.

Agreed

[AtOurWitsEnd]

We did not start this, she did. All in the name of money and control. I know you do not agree and I appericiate yuour honesty but truly, we have no other option here. My oldest SS, the last time he visited, stood over her bed w/ a butcher knife while she slept. Of course she woke up to it and called us screamong like a banshee to come get the F**king bastard before she killed him. We brought this up to the judge and he dismissed it as a sleepwalking event but SS remembers very clearly what happened that night. So should I let him go visit her again, maybe actually stab her next time and wind up in jail?

B/c that is what will happen if we go to court.

[Sunshine1]

Don't get me wrong, I understand when you are backed into a corner you will do just about anything.  I just don't see this ending well for the daughter is all.  You may be right, she might try and pull more crap and you will end up fighting for the daughter.  How are you going to keep tabs on her when you have no rights to her whatsoever.  The difference between you and BM are is she doesn't give a rip about her boys, you do, she gives a rip about her daughter and that is it, you also care what happens to her so how do you get out of this under duress?  You are supposed to enter into this as the level headed person and know what you are doing.  I just don't see how this is going to work.

Please keep us posted

[AtOurWitsEnd]

Okay, BM's attorney called yesterday and this is how it is going to happen. First we told her that we would not give up on the daughter in a previous convo.

So... BM will be giving up her right as well as DH giving up his to SD. Difference is, in the order, it will state that BM can NEVER regain her rights to My SS's and DH can go back in 2 months, once everything as settled for SS's and regain his rights to SD, w/ the stipulation that we will agree to gradual visitation and if we chose to fight for custody, we will have to do it within  a year of first visitation. Also, no CS will be exchanged on either side b/c in our state, at least, even if you give up your rights, until someone else adopts them, that parent is still responsible for the child financially.

We will be having an attorney of our own looking at these papers to make sure everything is in order.

Now the question I have is a) does this sound doable? and b) BM claims she wants to see the boys before she signs the papers.
We say no b/c what she will most likely do is tell them that they will never see their sister again or tell them that it is all our fault.
I have agreed to her writing them a letter or a phone call, w/ her on speaker and the first hurtful, guilt tripped, or mean thing she says ends the conversation right there. What do you think?

[krazyfamily_6]

I think this all sounds fishy and shady.  Why on earth would your DH have to give up parental rights at all?  Makes NO sense to me.  In my opinion, your DH would be a fool to sign these papers the way they are worded now.  I think BM and her attorney are trying to pull the wool over your eyes.

[mistoffolees]

Still sounds odd, but go with what your attorney tells you. However, if he hesitates at all, it should be a warning sign.

The other thing you're going to have to deal with is the SD. In effect, the message your sending is that you want the boys more than you want her. She's going to resent it and perhaps have all sorts of problems as she gets older. To me, that might be enough for me to stay away from it.

[AtOurWitsEnd]

The only way BM will give up her rights is to have DH "give up" his. He won't really be giving up his rights, BM will just be lead to believe (by her attorney) that he is. This same attorney who told the judge in his chambers (we found out from the GAL) that she wants this case done and over with b/c she can't stand her client but as she was paid well and in advance, she has to put up with her.  All of this was BM's idea, it came to us out of the blue, so yea, we think there may be something up her sleeve. But we did find an attorney who would take on the case this late in the game. We would go to court but that still would not solve the SD problem as she was never a part of this case to begin with. This state is also very anti dad. If we go to court, she will get visitation of the SS's and I can't express how very bad for them that would be. We have so many proffessionals agreeing with us, but the legal system is so crooked. The question remains, should we take them to see her or not?

[Sunshine1]

Yes, take them, but it should be somewhere public, and with DH there at all times.  It seems that the boys don't like her anyway so just to make sure there isn't any craziness going on have DH supervise this visit.

As for your DH giving up his "Parental Rights", I would NOT Agree to that but instead, give up your visitation.  You can always go back and motion for visitation to be reinstated.  Parental rights is a whole other story and I really don't see you reversing that EVER.  As you said this current attorney hates his/her own client, so when this is done and over with she/he is going to withdraw from the case and never touch it again.

Then when you need to go back to get your "parental rights" reinstated, you are going to go and fight a brand new gung ho, your a shitty father who abandoned his daughter lawyer.  

I would also sweeten the deal with no child support to be exchanged.  I would never be this adament about a case if I didn't have a gut feeling that it is about to go terribly wrong for DH, and SD.

As far as the SS's I am fairly sure once they are adopted by you that is the end of the story.  It is really hard for her to get them unadopted without a gigantic court battle and zillions of dollars later.

What do you think of my idea?   :)

[AtOurWitsEnd]

I agree w/ everything but I'm still not sure about bringing the boys. I would have to take them out of school for that and the oldest SS says he refuses to go. The youngest SS says he just doesn't want to see her.

[Sunshine1]

No, I would arrange for a phone call then or a letter.  Why would you pull them out of school...let me guess because she thinks the world revolves around her....most of them do.

I would say if you arranged a phone call and they got on the phone and said their peace, there is not much else you can do from there.  At least you tried and it was their decision.  They obviously are old enough to make an informed decision on how they want to handle their relationship with their mother.  You can't force them to like her, but you do have to try to be the "friendlier parent" no matter how much you would rather like slit your wrists than be nice.

Sooooo, is anything I offered something you are going to swing by your attorney or is this paperwork you got have a fresh wet signature on it?

[AtOurWitsEnd]

Oh No, everything you said is what I am going to do. No way I am going have DH or myself sign ANYTHING pertaining to her w/o our own lawyer looking over it. I agree also about the phone call or letter. I've never been mean to her or said anything mean about her in front of the kids, I have laughed at her many times, which pisses her off. :D. Yes she thinks the universe revolves around her. It's her decision to do this and I am not going to make these boys suffer anymore than they already have. Thank you. For a while there I felt like everyone hated us for this, but now that we know that DH doesn't actualy have to give up his rights, it makes it easier. Thank you again.

[mistoffolees]

>but now that we know that DH
>doesn't actualy have to give up his rights, it makes it
>easier. Thank you again.

That's not the way I read what you wrote:
"BM will be giving up her right as well as DH giving up his to SD. Difference is, in the order, it will state that BM can NEVER regain her rights to My SS's and DH can go back in 2 months, once everything as settled for SS's and regain his rights to SD, w/ the stipulation that we will agree to gradual visitation and if we chose to fight for custody, we will have to do it within a year of first visitation"

It sure looks to me like DH has to give up his rights - even though he is free to ask for them back.

You run a very real risk that when it comes time to ask for his rights back that a judge would ask what the change in circumstances is which warrants that change. It's not clear that you have any answer. While you seem to think that you're going to get SD back, there's no guarantee of that. Even if the current judge is on your side, judges change all the time.

Plus, you have to deal with the issue of explaining to SD that you traded her for two SSs. No matter how you slice it, she's going to see that as your saying you'd rather have the sons than her.

[AtOurWitsEnd]

Unfortunetly, we cannot all have our cake and eat it too.

[AtOurWitsEnd]

~The only way BM will give up her rights is to have DH "give up" his. He ~won't really be giving up his rights, BM will just be lead to believe (by ~her attorney) that he is.

Please read previous posts before you go off on a tangent.

[mistoffolees]

>~The only way BM will give up her rights is to have DH "give
>up" his. He ~won't really be giving up his rights, BM will
>just be lead to believe (by ~her attorney) that he is.
>
>Please read previous posts before you go off on a tangent.

I read the previous posts - and even quoted you.

You stated that DH has to give up his rights in writing - but that he can go back 2 months later to try to get them back. That is very, very different than your claim that he won't have to give up anything.

[mistoffolees]

>Unfortunetly, we cannot all have our cake and eat it too.

No, we can't. But you need to be aware of what you're doing to SD. The clear message is that you don't want her as much as SSs.

[AtOurWitsEnd]

I'm sorry, apparently I did make myself very clear. He will not be giving up his rights in writing, he will however, at the moment, be giving up visitation rights. Until the SS's have been adopted, then we can go to court for gradual visitation of SD. The attorney called to let us know this and BEFORE we sign papers, we will have our own attorneys look at them to be sure. In truth, I am defending my DH. Personally, I would love to get all 3 of these babies and have them safe. Unfortunely, at the moment, I am only the step-mother.

[escape2paradise]

So, dad is not terminating his parental rights, he is only agreeing to no visitation? In two months he can petition for visitation to commence once again?  Is this correct?  If so that makes legal sense.  I have never heard of a parent being able to terminate parental rights if another parent wasn't waiting to adopt.  Nor have I ever heard of getting rights reinstated once they are terminated.  

If I have summarized this correctly, I think you have everyone scratching their head due to the terminology you have been using.  Terminating parental rights is a far cry from not having an order for visitation.  

If you think the BM's attorney is screwing her over, you may want to consider that her attorney is playing games with you.  No attorney would admit to anyone that they are tricking their own client, especially to a judge who would be required to turn them in to the Bar Assoc.  I think you are either wishful thinking here or being mislead.  Since it seems you may be confused with legal terminology I sincerely hope that you are acting on your attorney's advice and not your own understanding of the law.  I also hope this attorney wasn't referred to you by her attorney and that you found him/her on your own.  

[AtOurWitsEnd]

Okay, in the beginning, BM WANTED DH to give up his rights. Also in the beginning, BEFORE all of this happened, while we were still going through the actual custody case, BM's attorney told the judge (and this came from the GAL) that she wanted this case over quickly b/c it was a mistake to work for her client.

I am neither confused or being mislead.

We did hire our OWN attorney.

I don't know what state you live in but in Oklahoma, giving up your rights w/o another person waiting to adopt is legal. We know, we checked b/c we were going to use this as a logical reason to BM as to why DH couldn't give up his rights. However that has since become void as we have found a loophole in that as well. If your interested, however, look up the statutes and you will see that if rights were given UNDER DURESS or if FRAUD was committed, rights can be reinstated. I am not saying it is a sure thing, just that it is possible.

We have considered that the attorney could very well be playing games w/ us, which is why he have our own attorney. At the end of the day, all they really care about ( a marjority anyway) is the money that lines their pockets.

In response to your third question, yes, that is correct. Forgive me, I panicked when I was first presented with this, I did not have all the facts, just the basics and I went with that as I was under the impression that we only had 2 days to decide.

Should I feel the need to post anything else, I will be sure to put everything in laymens terms for those of you who are otherwise confused. Thank you all for your comments.

[mango]

If you ask me, I think the big fishy rush is that the mom will move away. That is what the rush is. Why else would this be so urgent.

[AtOurWitsEnd]

You could very well be right. We didn't think of that but we did wonder if she has someone new in her life willing to adopt SD and doesn't want us to know, hence the reason she wanted DH to give up his rights. Hmmm, your reason sounds more possible. Thank you for bringing that up.