dead-beat dad

[tulip]

I've been posting a lot about custody problems with my 2 skids, and now I am looking for some advice from a totally different point of view about my own daughter. She's 6, her dad and I were not married, and has never tried to establish any legal visitation rights. There is a support order in place, and the amount he is supposed to pay me is very small, because he had two kids when I met him, and he pays A LOT of support to their mother.

He has never visited my daughter regularly, just comes and goes, he has tried to be regular for a couple months before, but then screws up and doesn't show up for several months. She has had 5 dance recitals, he's been to none. He's never tried to find out what school she goes to or anything. Last fall he moved to Vegas, then San Diego (I'm in MN) and never called her or anything. In August he called me to tell me that he's back in town and in jail. He actually suggested I bring my daughter to visit him there! I told him to call back when he was out of jail. In Sept he called and asked if he could d up and take her out for lunch with her sisters. I let him, and he brought her back late, and I haven't heard from him since. He has not paid cs since Sept either.

Here's the part where I want advice. I want him to just stay out of our lives. All he does is break my child's heart. She prays for him every night when she goes to bed. My dh has been a gift from God to her and she knows it, but she wants her other Daddy too. When he decides to pop back into her life again, what do I do? I don't want to be one of those parents who keeps their child from the other parent, but I truly believe she is better off without him, and if she gets her hopes up again about having a relationship with him, she is only going to get hurt again. He has no legal right to her at all, I have allowed him to see her in the past, only because I thought it would not be fair to her if I didn't. But he is an alcoholic with at least 3 or 4 dwi's and he smokes pot a lot, so I always worry about that whenever she goes with him.

[nosonew]

Tulip, I know your heart is in the right place, but your brain isn't thinking.  You know she needs her biodad in her life...even if he is a deadbeat.  He loves her in his own way....and she loves him in her own way...and over time, she may decide she doesn't want to see him anymore, because it's too painful for him to come and go like that.

In the meanwhile, I would suggest that you not let her go by herself.  What if he took off with her or something?  That would be my fear.  I would tell him he could visit her for ____ hours at my home or that if he wanted to go to the park or something, you or dh would go along to supervise.  

What was he in jail for?  

Hang in there!

[kiddosmom]

i agree with nosonew.

[nerd]

I don't understand why you feel we need to allow people to jerk our children around like you are saying it is ok for tulips daughter's dad to do?  why do you think a child need someone like that in her life?  so you are saying we are to let grownup have the right to jerk our children's emotions right and left, break their hearts and only be there when it is conveinant for them and to hell with the feelings of the child??

I say your heart is not in the right place if you can advocate for this kind of emotional and mental abuse of a child.

Tulip, lay it on the line to child's father.... be there or be gone, be there consistantly or not at all.  Tell him to go away and when he can come back grown up enough and less selfish then he join in his child life, otherwise DO NOT ALLOW THIS MAN TO JERK WITH YOUR CHILDS HEART OR HEAD!   She needs consistant involvement and consistant love, and attention. and if dad is not willing to give it then let her get it from her stepfather.  

Look people... children need their father if they will be a positive, consistant role model in their lives.  We would not allow anyone else to jerk our children around like that, and we should not allow father's or mother's to do it either!  period.  

anyone advocating for fathers or mothers just because they are "fathers" or "mothers and advising a mother or father to have an anything goes and just do what you want to with my child's heart, head and emotions is WRONG< WRONG< WRONG!  No! the children do not need those kind of people in their lives.

[nerd]

I think you are very justified in the way you feel and please read my post in response to notsonew.

[MKx2]

While I agree in principle that contact between parent and child is of the UTMOST importance, I think there are a VERY few instances when it is definitely not in the best interst of the child to allow it.

Unless you are prepared to foot the bill for a lifetime of therapy for the potential long term effect of the "revolving door parent" then one needs to rethink the situation, and seek a professional opinion on it.

DH is a case in point.  While his emotional issues may be an isolated situation (and I don't think it is) the effects of his mother leaving the family, then re-appearing every couple of years has damaged him all but beyond repair.  Certainly as a teenager he begn to understand the facts, but by then the damage was done.  He has very real and debilitating issues with relationships -- he believes that ALL who profess to love him will eventually walk away from him, and that includes me.  We were separated for a year because of his drinking problem, and when we finally began the "negotiations" for reconciliation I asked him why he never ONCE said to me "don't go" ... his reply stunned me!  He told me it was useless to talk to me about it because he always expected I would leave because anyone who cared about him ALWAYS left.  In talking all of this out we BOTH learned this was completely due to the result of his mother using the revolving door in his life every couple of years.

Nerd is right, with one caution -- seek professional advice on it, put your child in counseling and then make the decision if you want to attempt to legally exclude visitation.

It is heart breaking to see the permanent and far reaching emotional damage to DH.

[nerd]

Thank you Mx2!  you said exactly what I wanted to say except you did it with so much more finesse.  I have seen the effects of parents who are in and out of their childrens lives.  I went through it as a child with my biofather.  It was horrible and it took me years to deal with it.  I was lucky in the respect that I had a loving stepfather who was ALWAYS there for me and as soon as I told myself that he was the dad who really cared for me, accepted that, and stopped letting my biofather jerk my emotions around, I could finally start living life the way a child is suppose to be able to live it.  But scars are hard to heal.  it was so hard to trust.  
Now I am much older, and I thank God that my mother and my stepfather refused to allow my biofather to screw me up further than he did.  they protected me from his guilt trips, bad decisions, emotional abuse, and being put into the position of "wishing, hoping, and dreaming"
I say give your children something real, consistant, and substantial to believe in , think about, and hope for, and trust.  

[tulip]

The day after I posted this I received the first contact I've had from bio-dad in months, in the form a notice of a court hearing at the end of this month to get his cs lowered. I don't really give a rat's butt about his money, he never paid me that much when he was paying anyway, but it makes me mad!

His paperwork was not even filled out completely. He didn't list the amount of his support order because he doesn't even know what it is. Actually, his sister filled out all the paperwork for him. In his expense worksheet, he listed $100/mo for children related expenses. This really made me laugh out loud. He hasn't even called his kids in several months, so how is he spending $100/mo on them?

[nerd]

I wouldn't worry too much about it.  He has to prove he has even paid child support and will have to show receipts for the hundreds of dollars he claims he is providing in goods or services above his cs payments.  
I don't think he has a chance in Hades of getting his cs lowered once the judge finds out he hasn't even been paying.  In fact, he might wind up spending some jail time over his manuever, unless he can prove a valid reason for not paying it, such as a chronic illness or handicap and then the judge will frown on him not bringing it to court long before now!
I just have to ask one question though... why shouldn't you care about the cs?  I know it is hard to get it from an unstable person, but keep trying anyway.  It sounds like this man needs to be taught some responsibility!  

[sweetnsad]

Are you sure you aren't dealing with my ex-husband???  Man, this all sounds so familiar, it's scary...

[nosonew]

To nerd: Everyone reacts differently and has had different situations in their life.  Who's to say that if Tulip doesn't let child see dad, the child won't turn around and be mad at HER later in life for all the times missed?  Which would be misdirected anger, but without Tulip telling her all the bad stuff about dad, (which no one should do) the child is going to question why she hasn't seen him, and maybe when she is 18 she will find dad, who will tell her that Tulip refused to let dad in her life.

 I am not saying that it won't be hard on this child, or Tulip, but if given a choice, and the other parent isn't physically or sexually abusive to the child, is just generally a loser and ass, the child would choose to see the other parent "whenever" than never.  And I believe Tulip even stated that the little girls loves her daddy.  Well, that says alot right there.  He's an ass and she still loves him.  So who are we, as the other parent, to take that little bit of love away from a child?

I truly hope that this man grows up, becomes a responsible father, and abides by the c.o. to see his child on a regular basis, for HER benefit.  I could care less about him.  

This is going to be a tough rode for Tulip and this little girl.  My best wishes are for you both.  

[Rambler]

oohhhhh.....

I think you really, REALLY need to be careful here.

If you talk to my ex, I could be the Deadbeat Dad (that term is gross and offensive) that the OP refers to.  We are currently back in court internationally, and she has defended her calling me a deadbeat dad beacuse "he pays no support and breaks his promises to the children and I, the Mother, have to fix their broken hearts."  So I guess that means I should be cut out from my kids' lives then, right?  In order to stop the emotional trauma on them.

or maybe not. . . .

A little more info.  The Mother up and disappeared with the kids, refused access.  Tried to leave the country we were livign in without notice, wanted supervised visitation, sat on her ass for 12 months while I footed an apartment and club in one of the most expensive cities in the world, lawyers to the tune of about $70,000, etc. etc. etc.  After running out of money (she had encouraged me to start a business 40 days before Houdini-ing), I arrived at an agreement in the middle of the trial.  She has since reneged on the agreement.  I am not able to foot the international flights to go see the kids, but am supposed to have daily telephone access, which is denied, the kids are busy, they are out, whatever.

So be really, really careful throwing around labels and opinions like this.  If my ex had come in here and posted that (I skimmed, and no I haven't been in jail, yet, but I have had debt collectors threaten it), you all would have been wholly wrong in your opinion.

Rambler

[tulip]

in my situation. I have never kept my child from her father. In fact I've told him many, many times that he can see her whenever he wants. He just chooses not to. When I lived w/him, he never did anything for me, financially--in fact, I supported him because he was paying so much support for his older kids. He had a different girlfriend the whole time I was pregnant, and when she dumped him a week before my due date, he called me. He was there when my daughter was born, and gone within an hour. He came back the next day to help decide on a name, and then went to the bar, and didn't come back until it time for me to go home. That day, he showed up late, drove me home, and left again. This is about how much concern he's had for me and OUR child for the last six years.

I am going to ask him if he will allow my husband to adopt her so he won't have to pay support anymore. Giving up the tiny amount of money he sometimes pays will be worth it for the peace of mind to know that my little girl will be taken care of and brought up right should anything happen to me. I just want this man out of my life.

[amarie]

I definately have to agree here.

For the most part of my life my dad was a loser( still no CS), and I knew it but I loved him, because he was my dad.  I think that access should not be denied, and that she will come upon her own conclusions about her father.

My dad grew up which is good, and because my mother had me keep contact with him (sometimes forceing me)  I got to see him grow up and now we are great friends..  He is also spoiling is grandchild mercilessly, I think because he feels kind of indebted to me..

Tulip, He will hopefully come around, some never do but some do..

One other thing is that now he is a Custodial Father and is finally realizing what it takes to actaully raise girls by himeself for the most part and that is where allot of the change came about.

amarie

[tulip]

If I see him in the hall before going into the courtroom, I am going to ask him to just let my husband adopt her, and relieve him of his obligation. At least then I would know that if something happened to me, she would be properly taken care of by the father that has been here to go to her school conferences and dance recitals and tuck her into bed every night. Then I would know that she couldn't be taken away from him by an alcoholic who has never once in his entire life had her best interest in mind.

I think he will say no way, and then I will go into the courtroom and tell the judge or panel that I am absolutely disgusted by the way he thinks he can just quit his job and then stop paying child support. I will show them how much money it costs to support my family, if that's what they want, but I don't think I should have to prove it costs money to raise a child. Isn't that common sense? All cs orders are based on the ncp's income, not the cp's expenses. Why should he just choose to change his income, and have his support adjusted accordingly.

Then when he asks me to come and pick her up again, I will tell him that he needs to show some kind of commitment to her before he can just come and get her. He can come over here, or meet somewhere to spend some time with her and prove that is interested in her. I'm not going to just let her go over to his house and eat candy and watch TV while he ignores her and then bring her back crying because they didn't get to visit long enough.

[sweetnsad]

I know exactly how you feel...my ex just shows up whenever it's convenient, and mind you, that ISN'T often.  And, when she is with him, he takes her home early because she's "lonely"...Ha!...it's because he can't stand to be responsible...he also sits her in front of the TV and gives her junk rather than good food...she has come home to us hungry, dirty, etc...And like I've said over and over, I've encouraged her relationship with her father, never denying him access to her....alot of good it does me.

My SO is a wonderful father to her and she just recently started calling him Daddy...and he loves it...and so do I.

I am all for mothers and fathers getting to watch their children grow up and be a major part of their lives, but if there is a NCP who doesn't even try, or who doesn't want to help support their child, then in my opinion, they shouldn't be a part of their child's life.

It takes effort and responsibility to be a good parent, and let's face it, some people just aren't cut out to be good parents....it's a reality.  So, let someone who truly loves them and cares for them take over and be there for them.  

Now remember, I'm talking about the NCP's that DON'T want to be there for their children, not the NCP's who do and are railroaded by the justice system, the CP, etc...there IS a difference.

It just makes more sense.