What are our rights?

[allisonfamily]

Seven years ago, my husband saw his daughter for the last time. The mother then disappeared, taking their daughter with her. Her family will not return phone calls or release any information, and neither will the court. My husband pays child support every month, so they obviously know where this woman is.
My husbands rights were never challenged, and visitation was never restricted or revoked. There is not, and never has been, a formal custody/visitation order in place.
However, at one point in the past, he was behind in support. The courts were using that as an excuse to withold information but now that he's current, they changed their story. Now they're saying he'll need to pay $800 to go to parenting classes before they can consider releasing info on his daughter's whereabouts.
I can see no legal reason for them to deny him the information he's requesting.
Where do we begin in this mess? It's well past time to fix this problem. His daughter is now 9 years old, and we need to get this fixed.
Any advice on where to begin? Or how to find her? Or what papers to file? Or anything...?

[john5739]

Were you married to your current husband when the BM left with their daughter?  In my state the issues of visitation and support are kept completely separate so that they may not be used against either parent in denying visitation.  It is unusual that a father would be told he has no right to see or have any info regarding his child unless there was some type of, at least, alleged misconduct on his part.  Mind you I'm not saying that he did do anything, but the BM may have truthfully or untruthfully accused him of some type of misconduct.

[MYSONSDAD]

If you have her social security number or drivers license, it might be worth having a 'Professional look into it"

The child support checks are going somewhere, ever try to track them  down?

Ever check to see if she is using her mothers or grandmothers maiden name?

[allisonfamily]

I was not married to him at the time, but met him about 1 1\2 yrs later. From what I understand, the support dept. had no right to withold the info, but that didn't stop them. As far as his rights, they're all intact. Our state (PA) is famous for ignoring fathers rights. For example, when my ex & I divorced, I went to court to defend HIS rights so he could have equal time - that's how bad it is.
Anyway, the BM simply disappeared. Everytime we get ahold of a ph. # & call, they change the #. We're completely unable to find an address.

[allisonfamily]

We've tried some online detective programs, but it gets us nowhere. We just don't have the $ for a P.I.
As for child support, so far they've been highly uncooperative...
The name...we've tried everything. The biggest problem right now is that the BM has the exact same name as her own mother, so when we do searches, we never know who's who till we've paid for it. Even then, when we get any ph. #, we call it. Usually they're disconnected, or wrong #'s, but when we do get the right place, they screen all calls so we leave a message then they change the #. And I say they because we're assuming, based on the little info we have, that the BM lives with her parents, or at least her mother.

[Peanutsdad]

Does DH have any type of visitation set up in orders? If not, then he doesnt have any "rights" currently. He'll have to establish them.

If he doesnt, first thing is, FILE for visitation. Is the bm living in Pa? If so, that will certainly make it easier. The cs check is going somewhere,, where theres a will, theres a way.

Without knowing more about the particulars of the case, it makes it hard to advise you. What papers does DH have regarding any court action that went on?

[john5739]

You know it's bad when an ex-wife is defending her ex-husband's parenting rights.  PA sounds worse than MN and I never thought that was possible.

[MYSONSDAD]

I worked with a guy whose ex took off and hid in PA.

The attorney told him that he would need to hire an attorney to find out where those checks go. It probably would take some legal manuvers to get things going. Unless he hired him, his hands were tied legally.

If I remember correctly, he needed to find the county where she was residing, file in court for visitation in that county, public notice to her to appear with date and time. I think it need to be published 3 times.

When my son was born, they did hand and foot prints. Ever try tracking her down with those?

Those on-line sites did not help me either. I had better luck doing google searches. Or check the white pages on line. I would also check some of her relatives in that area. She might be staying with someone.

Hope this helps. Keep us up to date.

[allisonfamily]

The only court involvement ever was in child support.

A little more info - when the cs order was put in place, DH was still involved with and living with BM. Therefore when they were short on $, he just didn't pay support, which was ok with BM. Buit when she left, DH was already behind, due to that arrangement. Which is when the cs division informed him that he was not entitled to any info until it was brought current.

As for BM's residence, we still don't know. We have found an attorney, though, and hopefully he will be able to get that info.

[allisonfamily]

We have found a lawyer in the pittsburgh area, which is BM's last known residence. We also found a business there that listed her mother and father as owners. The ph. # is disconnected (what a shock) but we have an address.
We used a company called prepaid legal to find an established attorney at a low cost. It sounds like a wonderful arrangement - anyone ever heard of them?
Anyway, we'll get the ball rolling tomorrow.

I will continue to post here, since I've gotten such a quick response, and such good advice; but I wanted to take a moment to thank everyone. These message boards are a real lifesaver. All your help was greatly appreciated.

[allisonfamily]

In your honest opinion, what are we going to have to do here? I mean, does anyone have a guess as to what all we're going to have to go through to establish visitation?
My husband is concerned that with his extended abscence from his daughter's life, the courts will not grant him visits. I think it'll take a lot of work and time, not to mention adjustment, but that in the end we'll be allowed to know her.
Also, another concern for my husband is how his daughter will feel about him after all this time. Any suggestions about how to make this easier on this little girl?
Thanks

[smtotwo]

DH's ex also disappeared with his 2 boys.  She moved several states  away and though we knew what state she was in we couldn't locate her.  She kept moving and changing #'s.   Eventually she returned here and a mutual friend gave us her info. While you maynot get so lucky, this is where we started,

We filed for regular, meaningful periods of physical placement.  We petitioned for supervised visits for a period of 6 months so that DH and his boys could get reaquainted.  

After 6 months of supervised, we requested eow and 1/2 of holidays and 1 full week each month of the summer.

Because our concern was how they would feel, the court looked at supervised, at our request as a BIG PLUS!!

Your county, or the county where the divorce took place may still have jurisdiction.  DH's did.  She could have changed it to Colorado when she moved there but she didn't...WOOHOO for us, that would have caused a problem.

So, check state law to see where jurisdiction is, then file in that county.

And ask for things like Co-Parenting classes, not just for DH but for both so that they learn to parent TOGETHER.  Probably won't work and hopefully she won't go.  That makes you look like your trying and she's not.  If you have any other questions feel free to e-mail at

[email protected]

This was a pretty big battle for us but we made it.  So far its been a yr of unsupervised and ex is cooperative most of the time.

[norma]

Was your husband married to this woman? If so, is there a divorce decree that outlines visitation? If so, you can file a violation petition against her in family court. Please give more details about the case.

[Peanutsdad]

smtotwo has given you the best advise here. As far as your DH's fear about not getting visits,, no worries unless theres cause not to have them. Extended denial of visitaition isnt cause,, its cause for a adjustment period of supervised,, nothing more.

[allisonfamily]

No, they were never married. Fresh out of high school. And he knew nothing about the court system and the things he needed to do to protect himself.
They lived together for a year in Pittsburgh, then they split and he moved 4 hours away, but still visited every other wknd. The bm took a 2 wk trip to SC, leaving their daughter with him. Her 2 wks turned into 1 1/2 mos, and he lost his job due to the inability to find child care. When the mother returned, she took the child back to pittsburgh. My husband was able to visit one more time. According to him, during that visit, the bm asked to rekindle the relationship and he declined. The bm then moved, left no forwarding address. Their daughter was 2 1/2. She will be 9 in March.

[gipsy]

In wash state there is a basic process !
  Usually it is to Get a Guardian ad Litem on board and this person talks to every one and then rerports to the judge ,
  Due to the fact that he hasn't seen his kids for so long he will have to go through the process the court lays out , I had to go to parenting class and it was at a community college for much less , But you will have to jump the hoops . If you don't they will do nothing for you , I would just mark it up on the court calender and ask the judge if you can take a cheaper class , AFTER you go find one and can present it to the judge , In my case there was no order for a 800$ class . I also had tp pay for supervised visits .
  I don't know what state you are in but I have never heard of a court with holding contact over child support

[norma]

Where does he send the support check to? Obviously someone knows where she is. A petition can be filed for visitation but should be filed in the state (or county of the state) where the BM and child reside. That is, if your husband wants to have a relationship with the child.