Custodial's right to visitaiton during noncustodial time

[Ref]

BM(custodial) moved to Fla 11 years ago and took SD with her. DH has fought tooth and nail to get visitation. BM denied and put restrictions on his visitation until he was forced to take her to mediation. Last year they settled on a visitation agreement. This is what is says:

"The PRP shall have the same weekday and weekend visitation, as well as communication rights, during the summer as the SRP has during the year"

This was the year for DH to have MLK, Jr day. When he flew down to see his daughter his ex gave him a ration of poop about how it was simply for MLK DAY not the whole weekend and the parenting agreement requires that he give her 5 days notice of all weekend visitation that he will exercise.  She let him have her, but it was after he had to admit that he was wrong about a half a zillion times.

It also states in the parenting agreement that DH must take all weekend visitation in her city in Florida.

BM has July 4th this year. Mind you, just the day of July 4th. SD is with us for the summer. She expects to fly her back to Florida for the weekend (apparently Thursday thru Tuesday is a weekend to her).

My question is, she has to play the rules the same way DH has to. Does that mean that she must have her weekend visitation in our city in PA?

She is claiming that DH has to pay for half of all the travel costs as well based on the fact that his CS was lowered for the vistation costs due to her moving away.

This lady is nuts and it really concerns DH that she will not send SD back by convincing her to protest. She tried this move for their Labor day visitation. She (BM) admited that she (BM) and SD were crying all the way to the terminal at the airport because of DH enforcing his visitation.

She even said that they had to stop several times to try to complise themselves and go on. Funny thing. SD had no issues once she was away from psyco.

This is why DH is worried about visitation being back in Fla.

[Kitty C.]

.......I'd be doing EXACTLY what she has done, restrict her to coming to YOUR location, on HER expense and allowing ONLY for a maximum of 3 days, just like your DH got for MLK Day.  Mind you, the order DOES read "The PRP shall have the same weekday and weekend visitation, as well as communication rights, during the summer as the SRP has during the year".  If you take it literally, it gives her the exact same thing she gave your DH on MLK Day weekend.  

[joni]

make her come to you....in your town.  Stop kissing her ass...she's not making life any easier for you when you do.

[awakenlynn]

Unfortunately the wording is very vague.  You may want BM to come to you, but you may have a major fight on your hand.  You may have to look into going to court to ensure everything is spelled out in detail about when, where, how and include dates(if possible) and times.

Lynn

[Ref]

I thought about all of your advice and passed it on to DH. My feelings is that SD will be miserable this summer if he doesn't send her back. BM will screw with her head more and I think SD will come back regardless. I know what you are saying about kissing BM's ass, but the more I thought about it, the more it seemed that a compromise might be struck through this that may benefit all.

I suggested to my DH that he write her a letter stating that she can have SD for July 4th weekend so long as he gets in writing that he can have his weekend visitation anywhere he chooses. Also, she must change the timing of her flight back so that she wont miss camp. My thoughts on this is, BM will only have the chance to excercise visitation during the summer 1 out of every 2 years, DH has weekend visitation whenever he wants it. If he wants to take SD on a trip for a long weekend, he can't. Now he would have that ability. He has holiday weekends almost every other month.

DH sent out the proposal to BM and she should receive it any minute now. I wonder if SD will get a call from BM about it. Probably an email.

Thanks again for all your help.

[Ref]

Well, DH sent a letter being very professional and stating that he would like to work it out with her so that they can all benefit. He also informed her of a doctors appointment that SD had.

The letter was FedExed on the 10th to arrive on the 13th. PB wasn't there to sign for it on the 13. She called SD that day from her home. PB did not leave a drop off tag for it and did not answer the door on the 14th. PB called fom their home last night. They stopped back again today. Again, no drop off tag and no PB.

She was home at least to get the drop-off tag. She has been dealing with FedEx for years now, so she knows the rules. Now we are going to get the letter returned and have to figure out a new way to deal with it.


She has declined a letter from them outright before. This is the first time she has just not answered or left a drop-off card.

What do you guys think????? Advice please! What do we do about PB and how do we explain it to SD without saying too much about the divorce and problems between mom & dad.

BTW, almost every certified letter we sent got screwed-up by the post office and one that BM sent got screwed up too so we don't trust them.

EEEEEEK!

[dontunderstand]

It is never easy when dealing with these psycho's!!!  We have one too!  I don't know what your rules are in your state, but here if you certify mail keep a copy and the receipt and request a signature return.  Here once you mail it and they refuse it and it comes back, don't open it and staple that to the receipt and your copy.  Now here that is considered notice even though they refused to accept or pick up.  When they try to contempt you, you have proof that you mailed it and they refused and you can't get info to them anyother way without proof!  Again see what the laws are in your state...
Good luck!

[Ref]

Alright guys

I know there are tons of you that have had to deal with this stuff. I am depending on you to help me out with telling SD that she will not be going back.

The Fedex is on its way back. DH called BM and asked her why she didn't accept it on her answering machine. Now he doesn't know whether to send another letter or what. I suggested that he call her and record the conversation/message asking if she will refuse to accept the letter again if he were to resend. He wants to remail a letter outright. I just don't see the point if she will refuse the letter again. It is getting down to the wire right now and he can't wait 6 days to see if she will ultimately pick it up, not to mention the cost of the damn things.

Back to the focus of my question. It looks like SD will not be returning. How do we break it to her without upsetting her. BM sent her with the tickets for the return trip and the Divorce docs, so that SD can argue the case here.

Thanks guys!
Ref

[MixedBag]

Suggestion:  Use priority confirmed delivery for all communication with MOM.  

Why?

Because she doesn't have to be there to sign for anything (therefore can't REFUSE anything) and you have proof that it was delivered.

I agree that whatever Mom decides is right for Dad should also be interpreted the same way for her, so I support you guys.

Take the approach that way for the daughter when trying to explain it to her....

and you have a PM...

[Ref]

There were at least 3 incidents where the post office screwed up a certified letter to her and at least one that they messed up one that she sent to us. I am currently trying to get the post office to reimburse me for a letter that was never delivered (that we can tell).That one was sent priority confirmed. We had to send a second through FedEx overnight to make sure it got to her.

BTW.. we tried the service that is attached to the USPS webpage that you can send a letter in data form and they will print it out and send it for you. It stinks. Don't use it. I had to try to get my money back from them and they kept passing the buck to the USPS. I am still working on it.  

Thanks for the PM MB. I will reply to in when I am done here.

Ref

[Kimberly9]

that issues about parenting time are to be worked out amongst the adults and that Dad and Mom will figure it out.  She doesn't need to worry about it.

Give her a hug and say that you are glad that she gets to spend the time with her, and then work on distracting her.

I am sorry that it is all so difficult.

[MixedBag]

You do understand that Priority Confirmed Delivery is a totally different service than Certified?????

Totally passive.....on the reciever's part.

[awakenlynn]

Advice I was given when a letter is received is to mail out the letter again(for us it was certified) and mail one out by regular mail.  If the certified is refused staple it with all the receipts, etc.  Get a copy of the receipt for the one mailed by regular mail(take a picture of you dropping the letter in the mail box at the post office-make sure you get the address in the picture.)  If you don't get the regular letter back, then notate that it was received(you can get a confirmation request from the post office.  All you do is call, it doesn't have to be signed for).  If it is sent back, then she would have had to write "return to sender" on it and it would show she had received it.

[Ref]

We survived the weekend. BM sent a letter to SD that got here right before the weekend started. It was a bunch of crap " I know how hard it is with your dad" and "I will make sure to call you soon to make sure you are OK". SD has been having a great summer, well, until she got that letter on Thursday. After that, she asked if she was going back for the weekend. DH told her that he tried to discuss these things with her mom and couldn't work things out, so she couldn't go. She was pissed for the rest of Thurs and the start of Friday. She said she felt helpless because she has no control over the situation. DH said that most of the time people don't have control over their lives. The only thing you have control over is how you react to it. After that, she was great. We had a lovely weekend. BM called first thing (after 10am her time is first thing) and talked to SD for a while.

Oh yeah, the reason BM is such a dummy. DH already told her that he was recording all messages. He recorded her admitting that she turned back the FedEx and not returning any phone calls. She told him that she was going to sue him and he said that it was great because it is easy enough to prove that she refused communications with him. She then hung up. She called back and left 2 messages on our answering machine saying that she doesn't need to communicate with him and again admitting to not answering voicemails and fedex. She said she hung up on him by accident and accused him of using SD as a pawn. She told him that SD doesn't want to see him once she is 18. She also threatened to sue him for contempt and "whatever else" she can get him on. On Saturday we received a return to sender slip from the last certified letter sent. Apparently she refused that too.

DH asked SD about the comment about her not wanting to see him after she is 18. She said she didn't say that and that BM "exaggerates a lot".

Anyway, that is the update. DH used the readnotify.com for a couple of emails so that he could exhaust the ways he could attempt to contact her. She never picked the emails up. I think she has blocked our email address because SD never gets our emails either. Maybe we will have to get a new hotmail account...

Thats the story. I hope it is over, but I don't think so.

Thanks for all of your help!!!
Ref

[flewwellin]

What I'd tell her is that she has to come to your city in PA and that she may have the kids from friday after 12 noon to sunday at 6 pm.  She doesn't get any special treatment unless stated in the sep /visitation agreement.  As for paying half of either hers or your SD's airfare...I'd tell her to stuff it.  Seriously!!  What is this woman thinking??  I'd tell her if she had a problem with it to go ahead and take you to court, but that you were going by the agreement drawn up.  No court will fault your husband for that.  Also if she does take you to court then have some things to modify yourself, I'd go for major holidays will be alternated and small holidays like MLK and 4th of july should be with the parent who has them at that time.  i.e. you husband 4th and her MLK.  

[4honor]

Most state courts in the US cannot find a person in contempt without clear and convincing evidence of the person's knowledge of the scope of the court order and willful (and wanton) disobedience of the order. If the order is vague and there is no precidence of how the parties INTENDED the order to be interpreted, then the moving party has to PROVE that the other party is in contempt...

So in your order, it says dad can have any visitation with 5 days notice and that it must be in BM's town. In the summer, the PCP (BM) can have visitation with the SAME stipulations as the dad. You interpret it to mean that Dad is limited by  having to give 5 days notice (and in the summer so does mom - which she did) and that the visiting parent needs to take the visitation in the custodial parent's town (Dad is custodial in the summer.) BM could not successfully gain a contempt order on Dad for not sending the child back for the 4th because he met the terms of the order as he interprets it. If she files for contempt, respond immeidately that you deny the allegations and explain how he met the terms of the order, how BM set the presidence etc., but use her filing fee for a jumping off point to CLARIFY the order, as  a modification at this stage could be very hard on your SD.