Kids property...

[gemini3]

This is pretty much a rant.  I thought that it was bad when we were having problems with the clothes...

Now the BM won't allow the kids to bring anything from one house to the other.  Nothing.  No clothes, no shoes, no toys, no stuffed animals, no games, no books, no food, no anything.  Not even a silver dollar(seriously).

If they want to take something from her house to ours she says that she's afraid it will get lost, so she thinks it's better for them to leave it with her.  I feel like this is sending a message to the kids that their father isn't responsible and that things aren't safe at our house.

If they want to bring something from our house to hers she says that they "have so little" at our house, that she doesn't want to take anything away.  This, of course, is absurd given the amount of things they have at our house.  It's confusing for the kids because they know they have lots of stuff but their mom insists that they don't.  

To top it all off, when they get home she makes them take a bath and then washes everything they were wearing so that nothing smells like our house.

[mistoffolees]

That's common. My daughter is well taken care of (OK, probably spoiled) at both houses and has plenty of toys, clothes, books, etc. Both parents can afford plenty for her. As far as I'm concerned, the stuff is my daughter's and she should be able to do what she wants with it. Furthermore, she wears clothes in both directions, so if she wears something from her mother's house over to my house, that's going to eventually be countered by her wearing something from my house to her mother's house - so it all evens out.

My ex doesn't see it that way.  She insists that everything come right back to her at the next exchange. When my daughter goes to bed after an exchange, I usually wash all the clothes she wore over that day and set them aside for the next exchange. It's a pain, but not that big a deal.


Your last sentence sends up warning flags. If she's washing everything to get rid of the smell, does someone smoke there? Not only is it bad for you, but it's very bad for the kids - and has been used against parents in custody cases.

[gemini3]

I do the same thing, wash the clothes and set them aside for the next exchange.  I also feel that the kids should be able to do what they want with their stuff.  I can see why certain things might be an issue - for example, a Playstation, or something that needs adult supervision and/or makes a mess, but to not allow them to transfer anything is a little crazy in my opinion.

I have no problem making sure anything that comes with them goes back at the next exchange, and that's what we used to do.  Then she abruptly stopped letting them transfer anything from one house to the next.  If the kids sneak something into their bags and their mom finds it she'll take it away from them until they come back to my house.  If they bring home something that they made over here she'll throw them away when they get to her house.  No one smokes in our house, which is why I find it odd that she would do that.

I just find this behavior strange, and worry about what her motives are.  Does your ex insist that your daughter has nothing to play with at your house?  Don't you think that's odd, considering that she has seen for herself what they have here?

[MixedBag]

right out of Divorce Poison.

[gemini3]

Funny you should say that.  I have seen the correlations between her behavior and the things that I've read on parental alienation.  The problem is that no one in the court system seems to recognize parental alienation.  I have read so much literature on the subject, and so many articles from those who oppose it.  I have to say, some of them have good arguements.

The biggest problem that I see is that people are focusing on the behavior of the kids, not the parent.  They will say that if the kids aren't having problems, then there isn't a problem, which I find ridiculous.  To me it's like saying "Yeah, his father threw him out of a moving vehicle, but he didn't break anything, so that's not child abuse."  Just because there's no visible damage doesn't mean damage isn't being done.

I think if anyone is going to make any headway with this, they're going to have to concentrate on the behavior of the alienating parent (because they all seem to be "textbook") and make it illegal.

I just wish I knew how to make my situation better at this point.  I wish I knew what to say to the kids.

[mistoffolees]

>I just find this behavior strange, and worry about what her
>motives are.  Does your ex insist that your daughter has
>nothing to play with at your house?  Don't you think that's

No- while my ex was extremely troublesome during the divorce process, she's actually been pretty decent lately in most respects. Of course, some of that is because she still thinks we're going to get back together (even though I keep telling her it won't happen), but maybe the bitterness is wearing off, too.

>odd, considering that she has seen for herself what they have
>here?


Yes, it's strange. But, then, it seems pretty clear that divorce brings out the worst in everyone. If you communicate reasonably well with her, you might discuss it when the child's not around or arrange for a third party to mediate. Or just ignore it.

[Kitty C.]

If she's SO insistant on making sure the kids don't bring anything over to your house, the next time you pick them up, maybe you would want to ask her if the kids should go naked??

Just being ridiculous, I know!  But think about it..........when someone is that 'anal' with me, I try to throw it back in their face and see how they react to it.  I feel for you, though.  SS's BM used to be pretty anal, until she went through her 2nd divorce and realized she didn't have the energy to keep it up.  She's loosened up a lot, but she still has her moments.

Sorry, gemini.......I just couldn't resist!  But what's really sad is that there's more truth to it than fiction.  And it's very obvious that your kids can see the craziness of the situation, too.  Trust me, they aren't looking at YOU as the source, but at their mom.....it's just taking them time to digest and understand it all.  They may need help with that, so be ready to pitch in.  

[wysiwyg]

"If she's SO insistant on making sure the kids don't bring anything over to your house, the next time you pick them up, maybe you would want to ask her if the kids should go naked??"

Funny you bring this up, we were in court once re belongings coming to our home from BM's - it was an issue as described above, the judge said that until she sends us the child naked he refused to even do anything about this as it was so ridiculous.

BM then started sending the suitcase with a checklist in it (copied of course and she had original) with a message that everything should come back that was on the list.  ONe time we were out to the lake and the child dropped his sock in the water and it sank, he of course told his mom and the next note we got from her was to go out to the lake and find it!  WE have many many letters from her with one sock safety pinned to the note saying, find the other one like this, we just file the notes then the next note had the mate pinned to it insisting to find that mate when she obviously had both all along.

We got over it real quick, life is way to short to spend 2 hours of a three hour parenting time looing for a sock the kid whipped off as soon as he hit the thresh hold of our home!

[gemini3]

Yes, divorce does bring out the worst in everyone.  But, after three years, I would expect things to be getting better - not worse.  I have attempted to discuss it with her, but it's hard to talk to someone who's making up things - like that they don't have anything at my house - and insists that's true no matter what the reality is.

I guess it does seem petty to a lot of people, but I find it troublesome.  I don't like that the kids get upset by this.  I don't like that our six year old cries at bedtime sometimes because she wants her favorite stuffed animals that she's had since infancy.  I don't like it when the kids come back and say that their mom said that the clothes they picked out are "hideous", or too big, or too small, or when they say that their mom threw away the cookies that they made because they were "hard as rocks" and inedible.  I know that it's hurting them, and I don't like it.

It was more a rant than anything, because I know there's nothing that can be done about it.

[wysiwyg]

"But, after three years, I would expect things to be getting better - not worse."

15 years here and things keep getting worse and worse for us, and for the child, however it is an eye opener for himas to what his BM is all about.

She continues to even deny him that ability to bring a toothbrush or deodorant to us when he comes.................

[catherine]

I've been on both sides.... and I can see them both too.

For a while whenever we sent the kids to BM's house she would keep all the clothes and toys and never send them back.  That was a real issue with the clothes because we can't afford to replace wardrobes so on her EOW we stopped sending clothes and figured she could dress them while they were there.

Now that my ss's are older, we let them take whatever they want except maybe a game system like Playstation but they can take mps players, toys, and handheld video games.  BM also moved States away so now I help them pack by saying, ok get me 7 underwear, 7 socks, 7 t-shirts, etc.... so they get to pick what they want to bring.

Unfortunatly not all of their stuff comes back (still!) but the kids are at least learning that if they aren't responsible to make sure it is in that bag, tough luck to them.  The kids are 13 and 9.  As a sidenote, I think BM "steals" some of my OSS's t-shirts to wear herself!!

In your case, she is just being stupid if there is no history of things left behind.  The kids do need to learn to be responsible.


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Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.

Mark Twain

[gemini3]

There have been a couple of instances of something being left behind, but it's been 2-3 times in 3 years, and it wasn't anything major.  Once it was a book, another time a sweater.  They only live 20 minutes from us, so if something gets left behind that they need, I can bring it to them or BM can pick it up.  And, they are here every weekend.  If they do leave something, they're back in five days and can get it.

Yes, the kids do need to learn to be responsible.  However, a six year old is only capable of so much.  In my opinion, it's up to the parents to make sure that they pack what they should until they're old enough to do it on their own.  I have no problem doing this.

I don't know a single person who's never lost anything.  Especially children.  Things get lost - it's a fact of life.  If it was a lot of stuff on a regular basis, I could see it being a problem.  But, in this case, it's not enough to be making such a big deal over.  I can see that in some cases this is necessry.  I had to stop sending them home with clothes that I bought because she would throw them away, and I can't afford to keep buying clothes like that.  So, yeah, I think in some cases it's unavoidable.  I just don't see this as being one of those cases.  

I also have an issue with her blaming it on me - saying that she's afraid things will get lost.  Things don't get lost, and if it's her decision she should be taking responsibility for it and not putting it on me.  This is what's causing the kids to think that if I would just talk to her she would change her mind.  She won't, because it has nothing to do with me and everything to do with her.

[Kitty C.]

BM used to make a list as well.....she gave that up a few years ago, thank God.  SS even told us that when he'd pack his bag, she'd empty it and repack it, just to make sure SHE knew what was in there.

The disgusting issue we had was when she used to send SS in all second-hand clothes.............from the skin out, literally.  And these clothes were ONLY for coming to our house, go figure.  When I saw SS's underwear had prices written on the tag, I went ballistic and tore them up.  It wouldn't have been so bad if she at least used bleach, but she never has.  She went off on DH when she found out what I did, but DH reminded her of their 'equal financial obligation' to SS and if she didn't have enough money to buy him new underwear, she wasn't spending the CS ethically.  It must have put the fear of God in her, because we never saw used underwear again.  Now that SS is 13, he'd pitch a fit if she tried to but second-hand clothes for him!

[wysiwyg]

it is so nutz what they do, we used to go get my SS and we would wait int he driveway and when BM came home she would flash her lights and beep her horn for us to back out of her 4 CAR DRIVEWAY, so she could get in.  THen she would drag my ss in by his hood of his coat, only to come out in an old ratted and torn coat - obviously not the one he went in the house with!

[FLMom]

>it is so nutz what they do, we used to go get my SS and we
>would wait int he driveway and when BM came home she would
>flash her lights and beep her horn for us to back out of her 4
>CAR DRIVEWAY, so she could get in.  THen she would drag my ss
>in by his hood of his coat, only to come out in an old ratted
>and torn coat - obviously not the one he went in the house
>with!


Oh geez. I had to laugh when I read this.

My ex's now ex wife used to do that when I'd go for pick-ups. Plenty of room to drive around me waiting in the driveway, yet she'd get right behind me and blare her horn. My husband and I gave her a nickname after that happened---"Beeper". As in, "Oops, better look out. Beeper might pull up!".

[MandoandJess]

My step-son is 6, and we live states away.  We always buy his clothes, and it's a little annoying.  His birth mom sends him every time with a huge suitcase and a couple of outfits, usually things we sent home with him the time before.  This last time she let him pack himself, that was interesting.  But if he returned to her with only what he came with, dear god we would never hear the end of it!