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Christmas

Started by tulip, Dec 01, 2003, 08:02:11 AM

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tulip

Yesterday when dh brought the kids back to their bm's they were talking about Christmas. Bm had wanted to bring them to AK for two weeks to spend it with her parents. In light of the recent events (greatly reduced visitation and preparing for court on Dec 10th to get custody changed) dh decided to exercise his right to see the kids on Christmas, so she can't have them in AK over the holiday. SD told dh she did not want to go there for her whole break anyway, and both of them do not want to miss everything we do with their family here. He has suggested she take them to AK for one week the day after Xmas. Well, anyway, yesterday she told him and the kids that the reason she wanted to go there for Xmas was that she didn't have any money to buy them presents. She said they are not going to put up any decorations at her house or anything. What a crappy thing to tell the kids. I guess it does make me feel a little better about our tight budget for Xmas this year. The kids have been so spoiled in years past, and I am always worried about disappointing them. It's always a competition, it seems like. Looks like this is going to be the second year she lets us have them Xmas eve and day because she doesn't have presents so she doesn't want to celebrate. Good news for us, because we get to spend the whole holiday with them and so do all the people we visit, but gosh, what a lot of guilt for them. Mom doesn't to be with me on Xmas because she can't give me expensive presents? Sad. Not at all like a few years ago, before she filed bankruptcy so she could charge everything in sight on credit cards. Boy she was a great mom then--she had lots and lots of presents.

stepmom who cares

We have the same situation.  BM told me that she wants the girls for 3 days- during their 16 day holiday break.  I find this strange since she also has 16 days off, as she is a "student assistant" And, it is her holiday!  She told me she will bring them home Christmas Eve - as she too doesn't have any money to spend on them, she has told them they will get one thing each.  I question this since she receives child support from us and they do not live with her where does her money go?   She also told me they "stress her out" after a day and she needs a vacation.  So she will most likely got to ARK to see her parents over her "vacation".  I mentioned it would be nice for the girls to see their grandparents also - and she said she would "never go on a trip with them - I need to relax!"  I guess working 8:00 - 2:00 each day (all school holidays, etc off), no kids, no house or apt to keep up (she lives with a friend) and trying to get your boyfriend to put a ring on your finger is hard work!   Okay . . . back to the subject - if parents do not have money for the holiday - they shouldn't tell children about it.  The holiday isn't just about gifts!  And it is the adults problem not the childs - that is too much stress for them!
My stress - finding care for them while school is out - knowing BM isn't working - and paying for care!  BIG SCREAM!

tryn2begooddad

i hear what you are saying about the Christmas holiday. This is my second as the NCP..I had to decide last year what I was going to do since financially life stinks (putting it nicely)..and I know that I can not compete with the financial resources of the exlaws..So I decided to do what I could which wasnt much and tried to impress upon my two daughters that it isnt what you receive that makes it the holiday it is the being together even if it isnt in the "normal" family mode..that being said we had a great holiday season even though at my place the presents were sparse there was a lot of love and I think that until we as a society quit focusing on the material and maybe get back to the personal Christmas will turn into a competition to have the best and brightest of everything..

tulip

That's a good one. Yeah, I've been trying to figure that one out myself. Right now dh is trying to work out a joint-custody agreement, since we are taking care of the kids, but she has full custody, now, so everything is under her control and she gets a lot of $ from him for cs. We're not doing this because of the $, but yes it sure would make it easier to take care of these kids if it were reduced a little bit. Yesterday, after the discussion about Xmas, she said that she is worried that if the school finds out they are living w/dh or living at both homes jointly, she would not qualify for free lunches and she can't afford the kids' school lunches. Well, we qualify for reduced lunches, so I know they could at least get that, which is $2.00 per week for each child. Now, I think if she can't afford $2.00 a week for her kids to have lunch, she should cut back on the cigs a little bit (can you say chain-smoker?) but geez--I will pay the $4.00 per week for the rest of their lives if that's all it takes to get this over with!

tulip

My kids have too much stuff anyway. I say we just bake a bunch of cookies together. Kids love making stuff, and when all the cookies are eaten, you can do it again!
Also, I have asked my family instead of giving the kids a bunch of toys how about using the money they would spend to pay for some of the activities the kids want to be in? That hasn't worked yet, but I'm still trying.
Anyway, I wish this woman could see that we don't want to be in a present competition with her. We are glad that we get to with the kids for the holiday, and so are they glad that they are missing out on any of the stuff we do, but they want to see their mom too. She doesn't get that they just want to do something with her. Play a game, sit around and talk about what's going on in their lives. They don't want to be here because they get more stuff, it's because there is something to do. All they really need is love and attention.

sweetnsad

Christmas...what a sore subject...My SO's kids live with their mother and she gets a whole lot of $$ for CS...so the kids will spend xmas with their mother!  We can't afford to have xmas for them here, but we would never tell them that...they will get one thing each, because I have two kids here at home to have xmas for!!!
If my SO had to pay CS to BM for kids that were staying with him, I would freak!!!  I guess the laws are different here in Canada...If you have your children 40% of the time or more, you don't have to pay...

stepmom who cares

First  - I agree - why does it have to be a competition?  I've watched my husband and his ex do that for years.  I've warned him - be careful - your kids will just expect more and more!  They are the ones who have set the high standard!
Second - my kids too have too much junk - half of which they can't seem to pick up most of the time.  When I hide it - they don't even miss it - they have so much!  
Third - this year - we are doing Secret Santa in our home. We started yesterday.  We drew names - and you are to do special favors for each other, leave notes, and just be nice!  I hope it can last a week!!!
I gave the 4 year old her Dad - as I know that he wouldn't be into as much.  Our 4 year old has picked up his shoes and put them away, and she is making sure all lights are turned off.   The older girls - have left notes, I gave one a candy bar with a note - saying I thought she was sweet.  
Fourth - it was agreed upon that they did want to give to Toys 4 Tots - or something - and that meant that they would have to give up something on their list.  So they went through it and picked one item from their list - that they gave life without and give to someone who needs it.
Fifth - I've told all grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. they are not to give toys or clothes (they girls never wear them) please give Savings Bonds or gift certificates to books stores only.  They can buy music, book or a movie.  Which can be shared in our family.  
Sixth - why do BM's think they can have their kids live with us full-time, pay for everything, have visitation when they want, be on state benefits, receive child support - and worst talk and make their kids feel like "poor mama!?  Drives me nuts - can't they show them some parenting and leadership!


wendl

Christmas is not what you get but the time spent with family and friends. We teach my ss's and my sons this, they each get 2 small gifts and a family gift.  We dont have much $ to spend on them.  I help the kids make gifts for the rest of the family.:-)

leskash

We don't even try to keep up with the exs in the present competition.  SS gets spoiled by mom and aunts and uncles and grandmas etc.

i saw an idea on the internet to stop the holidays from getting out of control.  You buy:

Something they need, something they want, something to play with and something to read.

it is hard to do though as there is so much stuff.

I don't know what type of toy to get for SS. I am looking to spend at most $10-15.  I know it is not much but...  SS will get everything from mom anyways so it is really just a present.

tryn2begooddad

My ex gets a very sizeable amount of my take home (roughly 47%) so money is tight fortunately I am able to work a second job whihc helps some but I in the spirit of not wanting to "keep up with the Joneses" have decided that one gift for each of my kids is enough.. We will try and spend as much time together and new years eve when I am done bartending (the second job) I will go home pack them and the babysitter up and run the babysitter home and the kids and I will go out for an early breakfast at some all night diner...not real flashy but we will be together....and maybe I need to move to Canada lol

MKx2

The CP receiving CS must claim it as income and file quarterly returns on CS ...

Can we say "double-taxation"?  Something about a tea party connection here ...

But ... 40% custody and not paying CS - it DOES sound attractive ... and you also would have Provincial Health Care!  I don't know about the other provinces, but I received the finest of medical care when I lived in British Columbia, and it was DIRT cheap!

And don't forget when you buy things there is Federal Tax, Provincial Tax and GST (Goods and Services Tax) ... which can add up to a pretty heft amount.

Still ... we can dream, can't we? :D

sweetnsad

I think I have to disagree only on the point you made about the CP having to claim the support she receives...She doesn't have to, we checked it out...BM received $15,000 from my SO last year and didn't have to claim a CENT of it...
Doesn't seem fair does it???
Our health care is good though....

MKx2

who has to file quarterly returns and pay tax on the CS ... now she works as well, so that may be the difference.  I don't know.  All I know is she files like clockwork as that is the law.

I can't imagine ANYone filing CS as income unless it was required, can you?


tulip

I wish they had laws like that in the US. (Not the double tax part, though.) But I think that whoever is receiving the money should pay tax on it, not the one handing it over. And the worst part of this backward tax is this: in my state, the legislature is trying to pass a law that holds cp's accountable for how they spend money received as cs. It's not going through because people are aguing that ncp's don't have to account for how they spend their money. Well, I think that's bull because they pay tax on the money they earn and pay a percentage of it to support their kids, and they shouldn't have to account for the small portion that isn't for the kids. I used to work at a company that had cs included in their cafeteria plan (pretaxed money taken out of paychecks that the employee doesn't pay income tax on.) I told my dh to ask his compay about that, because he has that plan for medical and childcare expenses, but was told that it's illegal to put cs into that plan because it has to be taxed.

MKx2

is that if there are raging issues between NCP and CP, the courts will oder CS to be put into a trust account by NCP and CP must provide all receipts of expenses for children, above and beyond a roof, food, and a clothing allowance (set by the court) in order to receive any monies above the amount set for "extras."  Things like sports registration, music lessons, school pics, etc.  Those extras are paid to NCP at 50%.  I can't remember what happens to any "left overs" in the account should receipts not be provided for the full amount deposited each month.  The costs of  administering this is born equally by NCP and CP.

sweetnsad

No, of course not....she's not going to claim it if she doesn't have to...One thing she isn't is stupid...
It's too bad my SO can't use it to his advantage either...not allowed to claim it on his taxes AT ALL...that doesn't seem fair..
also, the fact that CS is based on GROSS income is a joke...
Just my opinion though...

Brent

> It's too bad my SO can't use it to his advantage either...not
> allowed to claim it on his taxes AT ALL...that doesn't seem fair..

It's too late for this to do much good this year, but next year, this might be something for your SO to consider:

Preventing Unfair Seizure Of Tax Refunds
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/refund.htm

They can't steal/intercept his refund if there's no refund coming back. :)

sweetnsad

Ahh, very good....I'll keep that in mind..thanks..:-)

Indigo Mom

And especially love the ones they don't realize are brain food.

My son turned 8 last month and LOVES knex.  He makes all these wild and crazy things, then turns it on and gets SO proud of his mechanical "creations".

I got the Iguanadon set for free at a garage sale.  (bitch...bribed me with all sorts of free shit just to get me to take this kitten...lol)

I'm about to learn just how expensive the sets are, as lil dude is getting some more for Christmas.  I have my eye on this HUGE ferris wheel...and I'm certain it's going to cost quite a bit.

BUT....the educational value is up there!!!!  Also, lincoln logs are awesome, too.  Yes, I love the old toys I had growing up.

http://www.knex.com/customer/home.php  

Just found this website and about crapped the ol drawers.  Quite expensive.  Click on "tubs & cases" and there's bunches of sets your lil dude might enjoy.  (i urge you to find a mechanical set so he can enjoy like my son does)






oklahoma

I agree with you.  NCP's are the exception to the rule, it seems, for everything.  Not only do they have to hand over money that they have already been taxed on, they have to do it whether they want to or not, or any number of consequences.  If you want to argue that CP's should not have to account for where CS goes, the exact argument should be used as to whether or not CS should be ordered at all!  It seems that what is "good for the goose" ain't "good for the gander."  Just another problem with the whole issue of child support.

(In our case, my husband is ordered to pay just over $5000/year.  So BM takes most of that amount to haul him into court with false allegations, and manages to keep him from seeing his children for over a year.  But of course, he still has to keep paying CS, so she can keep paying her attorney.)

MKx2

But as you know, the more you earn - the more they take.  DH's CO in 1991 was over $16k/year including health care and  child care ... which came to roughly 38% of his GROSS salary ... thankfully two have emancipated and we have a mere 21 mos left of CS for the youngest.

kiddosmom

OMG! what are you going to do with that extra monies? Lucky you!
LOL I bet you feel like you have won the lotto in 21 mo :)

sweetnsad

$5000????  God, I wish ours was that low...Last year my SO handed over $15,000!  Whoosh!  Gone...and she claims she didn't get enough..

MKx2

We have FINALLY have been able to buy a house!  We have been renting since '91 - separately and then as DH and DW.  We close in January and will await the time that we will have some extra money to fix up something of OURS, rather than always always always putting the extra money into something one of the three kids of his needs ...

Been a long haul, but light is shining at the end of the tunnel.

Nope, money can't buy happiness, but it CAN buy a chunk of dirt and a roof you can call your own ... we are both so thankful we are able to do this now, and still provide for the kids.

smtotwo

Between the the 2 ss and 1 ds still at home we looked at the roller coater, but decided on the ferris wheel as a gift for all 3 boys!!  Doesn't that look like fun??  

DH built the ones we bought last year while he was laid off over winter.  He should have a field day with this one!!

tryn2begooddad

No I do not want to move to Canada that was kind of said tongue in cheek...taxation on child support there is a sore subject huh the one paying pays taxes on it and the one receiving doesnt count it as income for tax purposes...and they say the tax system here in the states is fair HAHAHAHA.....

tryn2begooddad

I hear you there I send a total of $14K a year not to mention splitting unreimbursed medical/dental 50/50 (fortunately the kids are mostly healthy)...and yes I like how the system is the more you make the more you pay...Here in CT though they way they figure it is by the total of both birth parents..so if the ex's salary goes up the amount needed to raise the kids goes up as well..I dont quite understnad that one but ok..unfortunately for me my raises outpace hers so the percentage I must contribute actually goes up. So she gets basically a free $14K a year.  maybe one day things will change....but I am not holding my breath

oklahoma

But our gross income has been hovering right around $10,000/year--and that's including my income!  I guess I wish we made enough to pay $15,000/year..... because then at least we would have a little more for ourselves and our two other children.  And BM would probably still complain about not getting enough--or else her legal battles would grow to include that whole amount as well.

Just counting down the days until my husband is out of law school!!  And by the time that happens, we will be a few years closer to not paying CS at all.

MKx2

So what the courts have done is impute income for DH?  GREAT!  He's trying to better himself and provide more financially in the future so he has income imputed!   Swell.

Now, please understand that I'm not saying he has no obligation to pay child support while he's in school.  He did make the choice to do this so for a few years ya just have to suck it up.  

The laws are just unfair in general, and it seems far too many are milking the system for all they can get.

Hang in there OK - one day you truly WILL chuckle at your struggles during this time period.

MKx2

'cept BM hasn't worked since immediately after they split up, lived on CS and had NO income included (she had a great lawyer, DH had a roll-over-play-dead lawyer).  The daycare costs were dropped by her voluntarily after a couple of years.  We were blessed to be able to pay 80% of the unreimbursed medical costs - oh thank you!

But, the times they are a-changin' ... hard to believe that at SOME point we will no longer be supporting her as well ... but I have to say, I feel really sorry for her.  She has spent the majority of her life, by her own choice, in a state of one degree or another of poverty, and when things got too bad for her, her mommy would bail her and "gift" her $5-6k from the estate ...

I was born into the wrong dang family!  LOL!

oklahoma

Thanks.  I hate to sound like I am complaining all the time.  I have never begrudged my husband supporting his children.  I came into this relationship thinking I knew about CS and dealing with the ex, etc. etc.  But I was very naive to the basic unfairness of the family law system.  I also knew when my husband chose to go to college, things would be tight, but again, naive to the system, thought they might work with us.  We've made it this far, and I suppose we will keep on making it....


P.S. They did impute my husband's income AND they included financial aid (what we consider his "full-time income") in the CS calculation.

Rakkasan