we don't know what to do! (a long one)

[stepmom74]

Well, the PBFH has decided that my husband can't see his daughter!  He was supposed to pick her up tonight after work and everything was agreed on until he received a phone call from her right before he left from work.  

She said that his daughter ran to a friends house (she didn't know whose) and that she wasn't going to be around for him to pick her up.  He told her to go and find her and she refused.  She said she wasn't making her go when she didn't want to.  We haven't seen her for 4 weeks!  He told her that he was going to call a lawyer.  She told him to go ahead!  He asked her why he was paying her child support if she wouldn't let him see his daughter.  She told him that was his choice when he took her to court to begin with.  He told her that was because she refused to let him see her when she was little.  She said "Too Bad!"  

She knows that the cops won't do anything and that he isn't the custodial parent.  We asked to get her on a Monday to do our summer visitation because she had signed her up for softball the last couple of months so she couldn't be with us then.  She has made every excuse in the book for the last few weeks, why we couldn't get her.  She also knows that we were supposed to tell her in April when we wanted to get her, but we didn't due to other contributing factors this year.  Legally she can pick our month for us but she refuses any contact at this point.  We have never had a problem in the past with summer visitation,  she was always willing to let us have her all summer--for her convenience, of course.

This year her daughter has been out of control and not acting like herself.  She told her mother that she hates me and wants nothing to do with me even though I have done nothing.  She told my husband tonight that she doesn't want to come to our house because of me, yet her mother doesn't have any reason why.  She won't give a reason to her mother and her mother can't give my husband one either.  That's because there is no reason at all and I'm very upset that I'm being used as this scape-goat!!!!  I have done everything expected of me and more for that kid and now all she is doing is dragging my name through the mud.

My SD has been in counseling but her counselor won't tell us a thing.  Is this normal?  My husband has asked her what seems to be troubling her and she talks around the subject.  I know about patient confidentiality but doesn't she have to tell him something?!  He is her BF.  Don't we have a right to know what she says is making her uncomfortable?  

Her therapist told us that she can't help her anymore and that we need to go to a specialist.  My husband talked to the PBFH and told her that he wanted to be there with them on her first visit.  She told him "Absolutely Not!"  She is trying to sway the therapist her way before my husband and I have anything to say to him.  She already did that to the first one and I think my husband should be able to hear what she says about him and I.  Does he have that right?  I know my SD is acting like this because of PAS but I know that is really hard to proof.  Isn't her actions at this point a good indicator of that?  How do we go about telling the therapist what we think is wrong without her undermining us first?  It's like a game to his ex!  I know my SD is troubled and has been for a couple of years and we are the ones who told the PBFH to get her some help!  Now her problems from before are on the back burner because she blames her messed up life on me.   I don't know how the BM thinks her problems have anything to do with me.  This has been going on and getting worse for a couple of years.  Even her school told her mother and my husband that she was emotionally disturbed.  She only sees me every other weekend or less.  Will the therapist see through that?  I am worried he won't.

We just don't know what to do.  Can we only file a contempt charge when she is refusing to let her come to our house?  I know this wasn't our scheduled weekend or summer visitation but we haven't had a chance to have those either.  She is blaming it on me but she won't let my husband see her either.  Nothing has happened and the whole thing is totally ridiculous!!  I want to sue her for slander too but I don't know if that will do any good.  I suppose that will make me look petty but she is telling everyone she knows that I'm abusing her daughter or something!  

Is there any other charges we can get her on besides contempt of court when she is coercing her daughter into lying about us and our relationship with her.  The cops won't help, but doesn't my husband have the right to see her?  Like I said, there is no evidence or proof that we have done anything wrong but I know she will smear me in court if we go.  Is implying enough for her to get away with this?

I really need your expertise and recommendations!!

Wrongfully accused and berated,
Stepmom 74

[Peanutsdad]

I would really need to know what court orders exist to be able to advise you and you DH.

At the least, I WOULD be filing motions to get the information the therapist has.


You REALLY need an attoney. Now.

[oklahoma]

Just a note on the counselors records, my husband sent a letter to his daughters counselor simply stating that according to his parenting plan and the state law, he was entitled to his children's records and please send a copy.  It took them about a month, but we got everything.  If a nice letter doesn't work, then break out the attorney....

As far as being concerned about what the therapist thinks and being swayed in the wrong direction.  We went through the exact same thing!  Our problem was that we weren't even told that my SDs were in counseling until the week of my husband's court date.  We were furious that the counseling center completely took BM's word--in a situation where she would obviously benefit from lying, and did--didn't even try to talk to Dad.  It took a few months of joint counseling with my husband and his daughters for the counselor to understand what was really going on, but she got it eventually, I think....

[stepmom74]

We don't have much for court orders except for summer visitation of one month, every other weekend and every other holiday.  We had her over Memorial weekend and she had her on the 4th of July.  As for summer visitation, we were going to have her right away after school was over in May until her mother informed us that she has signed her up for softball everyday until the middle of July.  That is over now but she won't let us see her.  We have not gotten our weekend visitation in over 4 weeks either.  

We have tried to contact my SD and have tried to make arrangements to see her but she wouldn't answer the phone or wasn't there or they had made other plans without talking to us about it.  Her mother has purposely been hiding his daughter with other people so he couldn't see her.

As for the therapist, she was seeing her before she decided that she didn't want to come to our house, so it's obvious to me that the girl had problems that didn't have anything to do with me to begin with.  All that has been forgotten though!  Right now it's just an attack on me and my husband and his ex is acting like she is saving her child by not making her come to our awful house.    The counselor she was seeing is now out of the picture because she told my husband she can't help his daughter because her case is more involved that what she was trained for.  The thing that irritates me is the whole story would change if my husband was allowed to sit down and talk with her but he's not allowed to even see her.  Last night he tried to call but they won't answer the phone either.  Doesn't this sound like PAS to you?

Our main problem is that he is the NCP.  As far as his ex is concerned we owe her money and that's all.  She has taunted him for years and told us to take her to court because there's nothing he can do about it.  I want to prove her wrong.  She needs to know that she can't control him for the rest of his life.

Any help is truly appreciated!

[stepmom74]

How do I find out if ND has a law like that?  I would assume that a counselor has to tell you what is going on with your minor child but she has pretty much refused him any information.  Do we need the lawyer to get it out of her?  She is only a counselor, not a psychiatrist or pyschologist-- does it matter?  Also, she is no longer having sessions with her because she said she has deeper problems than she can help with so she referred us to a specialist.  

The problem is that the BM won't let my husband go with her to see this new therapist.  She said she was going to take her to him and then talk to my husband after they got back.  Can she do that?  He has a right to all of her medical records and she is supposed to notify him before she goes to any doctor appointments,  etc..   Does that include therapists?  I would think so.  All she wants to do is get her say in first so my husband doesn't make her look like the bad mother she is!  I just don't know how to make her understand that her daughter is not a possession and my husband has rights too.  She doesn't think he has any rights since she has sole custody.


I'm afraid the longer this goes on, the harder it will be to convince anyone about what's really happening with his daughter.  She needs us and it is killing us to think that the PBFH is actually getting away with this!!!  Going to court will just drag this out for months and we don't have months anymore.  It's getting extremely serious.  I'm afraid she will end up hurting herself because she is so confused and emotionally drained.  She doesn't know what she needs anymore.  She seems scared about everything, all the time.

We really need some help!

Stepmom74

[stepmomtwo1]

In the great state (yeah right) of Ohio if a mother keeps her child from the father she is in contempt of court and can go to jail and pay a big fine or at the least be on probation for a while.

My sd quit coming with us much like yours did. She just one day decided that she hated coming here because I'm mean and she didn't like having to follow rules. If we had known then what we know now we would have fought for our rights but we thought we'd have to hire an attorney and spend a lot of money to just get the rights we deserve.

My girlfriend is divorced and she has been fighting over her youngest son for custody (She has it and her ex wanted full custody of this child) and when they finally ended up in court last month she was given two years probation for not letting the dad have his son every weekend that was his. The boys races dirt bike and some weekends they traded so he could go to his races. It was all a ploy from the ex to get her to look bad.

The sad thing is there are great moms like my friend out there who end up with the shaft and then there are these crappy women who should have never had children (like the one's we ended up with as ex's) who walk around the law every single time.

If I were you I'd call the courts and see why you would have to hire an attorney to get the rights to see your child. We should have done it and maybe our bio hag would have found she didn't have as much say as she thought she did. Now we have lost all contact with this child and she blames us not her mom. Go figure. Don't let her go if you do you'll lose more and more of her and in the end the kid will be the one who loses the most.

[purrrfectgirl]

Generally unless it is specified in the court order no doctor can deny a birth parent access ot their child's medical records.  DH's Psycho ex took the kids to therapy for a little over a year.  Therapist tried very hard to make sure we didn't get info.  DH scheduled an appointment to come in a talk about the kids but two days before appointment Dr. called hubby and siad he was going to bill hubby's insurance.  DH was unemployed so this wasn't happening.  SO then DH asked for records to be sent.  Therapist refused under patient-client privledges.  DH whipped out Ohio law that says he is to get access to everything she does.  Then Dr. said there was motion filed in the court to prevent access (lies, lies, lies).  Well, after threatening reporting him to his accreditdation agency (he was a psychologist, not a psychiatrist) he coughed up the records we were requesting mighty quickly!

As for the visitation denial, until the child is 13 or more (at least in my State that's the age) the child can't choose to not come.  I would have your DH go to BM's house for pick-up everytime he's supposed to get the child.  If the child is not there or mom refuses to let her out, call the cops and get a incident report.  Getting the incident report is crucial!  Without that the courts won't beleive that mom's denying visitation.  The cops will not make the child come out, but it shows that mom is not being cooperative.  If DH never even bother to go then it's hard to say mom's not cooperating when there's no one there to cooperate with.  

Best of luck!

[stepmom74]

Thank you all for your information.  We have tried a few of your suggestions already but have had no luck.  We called the cops on her and they said that since my husband doesn't have any custody over the child there is nothing they can do.  I would think they still had to file and incident report though.  At least that's on record.  

I called the counselor to get all of her records sent to us.  She told me there is a loop-hole in the system for her services.  We have a court order for medical records but her type of counseling isn't considered medical.  The BM has a special "shrink"-type plan through work so it wasn't under their daughter's name at all, making it impossible for us to get it without consent from the BM.  I asked the counselor to have the BM sign consent for the info but she refused, saying that my SD didn't want us to know what she said.  That just proves to me that she is lying about things to her counselor!  Obviously her mother condones her behavior and lets her get away with it.  

I called the counselor again the next day to ask some questions and she told me that she knew that we had nothing to do with my SD's problems and that her mother should let us see her but she had no control over the situation.  She reassured me that there really wasn't anything bad said about our family but she knew that the BM was making things hard on us.  That's why she referred us to the forensic pyschologist.  I felt much better after I talked to her and she said that he is considered a medical doctor so we should have no problems finding out what he knows.

We have called a couple of good female attorneys in the area but 2 have refused to help us.  They said they were too busy to take on a contempt case.  We wanted a good lawyer, not the crappy lawyers we've had in the past but they don't want to mess with little cases I guess.  I just want to win and win big to show this mother that she can't always tell us what we can and can't do.  She even has her mother and neice telling my husband that he is not allowed to talk to his daughter because she doesn't want to talk to him.  What right do these two have to talk to him that way!!  It makes me so mad but so far, nobody has made them change.  They feel like my SD is their property and he is tresspassing.  Ridiculous.  

We made an appointment to talk to the new therapist before the BM and SD go and see him.  I'm so glad we got in first!  I'm hoping he will understand our side before the BM can sabotage it.  I'm feeling a little bit better about the situation but I still wish we could find a lawyer soon that will make her pay in court.  I'll maybe call the courthouse tomorrow and see if they know how to get her to give us visitation without court but I still think we need a contempt charge against her too.  It will only look better for us, right?!

We keep trying every week to talk and to see her.  I don't want to give up but sometimes I understand why people just quit trying.  The BM and her family have made it almost impossible for us and I really hope the new therapist can get through to my SD.  She is just being selfish and mean right now.  She doesn't have any remorse for hurting her dad and her 5 year old sister.  I could just ring her neck for the way she is carrying on.  Well, we've been taking it one day at a time.

Thank you all--it has helped me and my husband a lot!!

Stepmom74

[oklahoma]

I can't remember where I found the law specifiying NCP rights to information--I think it is referred to in my husband's parenting plan.  There is a statement that even if he did not have joint legal custody (which he does), he still has the right to all medical, legal, educational records, etc.  The counseling center my SDs went to receives federal funding--and so is subject to FERPA--so perhaps that is another reason they were so cooperative.  We also did not address the letter directly to the counselor, but rather to the center.

Does your husband's parenting plan or any other court order say specifically that he has the right to records?  Have you sent a copy of that to the therapist?  Mental health records are most certainly included as medical records.  Maybe casually mention that if you do not receive the records by XX date, she will be hearing from your attorney.  (You don't have to mention that you don't have one right now and that you maybe cannot afford one.)  We have found, in many other aspects of our lives, that people just do not want to get attorney's involved.

Do you have the new therapist's name and contact info?  Have you tried to just call him on your own?  There is no reason why you need to be there on the first appointment.  Let your husband develop his own relationship with his daughter's therapist--maybe even meet with him before your SDs first appointment, if possible.  Like I said earlier, we were not even told that my SDs were in counseling until the week of our court date.  After less than a month of counseling sessions, the intern counselor testified in court that my husband was absolutely abusing his daughters.  Ha!!  It was over a year later before my husband was able to meet with one of their counselors.  It took 2-3 months for the counselor to fully accept that BM had been lying to them (the counseling center) all along--that's a fairly short time considering they had been hearing only BM's side for 18 months, and especially considering their original conclusions.

[true]

Hey there,

I reside in ND so I hope that I read it right that you were looking for some information for ND specific.

North Dakota Volunteer Lawyer Program (701) 255-1406

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Child Support Enforcement Agency (701) 328-3582
P.O. Box 7190, Bismarck, ND 58507


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State Bar Association of North Dakota (for attorney referrals) (701) 255-1404
P.O. Box 2136, Bismarck, ND 58502-2136

http://www.court.state.nd.us/OPINIONS/TOPICS/161.htm  This website had actual caselaw on it that could prove helpful to you.

I would also pick up a copy of the HIPPA booklet available at most medical clinics. It covers most of the basics. You could also look up the complete manual online if you would like. Its a Federal Program protecting the "right to privacy".  I would be interested to know if the ex has listed your husband as the "person to call in case of emergency" etc at the school and at the clinic and hospitals rather than say "grandparent". It sounds like the "parenting plan" is rather vague but it would appear that it needs to become more defined and detailed.

Hope this helped some,
true

(PS: this is only info, I am just a parent not a paralegal or atty)

[stepmom74]

Hi!

It's nice to hear that there is one person from ND on this website.  I felt kind of alone!  I appreciate your website on caselaw.  I am printing it out and I hope to find something useful.  

Tonight we were told by the BM that we aren't suppose to push for visitation until the counselor can figure out what's wrong with my SD.  Well, to be honest, it's gonna take him months to figure that one out!!  Her mother has her so messed up-- I can't figure out why a therapist would say something like that so my husband is going to call him tomorrow.  Legally I don't know why he would say that.  It's a court order that we see her.  I don't think the BM or the therapist can say we aren't allowed to see her.  It's gotten so out of control that my brain is just mush.  We have never had a problem with her seeing us for 10 years and now all of a sudden we are terrible parents!  (The only people saying that is the ex and SD.)  I think she has the therapist snowed too!

I'm quite sure that my husband is not listed as a person to contact in an emergency.  She thinks he was just the sperm donor and therefore has no rights to anything unless she says it's ok.  That's why it is driving me insane.  I've wanted to strangle her for years but have held my breath for the sake of the kid.  Now I wonder why I have for so long!!  It certainly didn't get me anywhere but heartache and anger.

Well, enough venting.  

Thank you for your insight!  I'm sure it will help us.  The more we know, the better.

Stepmom74

[rm1759]

I am going through a very similar situation.  I was not permitted to attend any sessions with the first therapist.  I constantly called and e-mailed the therapist asking her what was going on, trying to get information.  Many times I was informed that if I wanted to come in, I would have to pay her $150/hr to get info about my daughter.  Well, this went on for some time, and then she sent a nasty e-mail to me saying that I thwarted all of her efforts to help my daughter, and being extremely condescending.  I sent a copy to my attorney, and he shot off a letter to the therapist basically telling her that she was a danger to my child and that she could no longer provide therapy for her.

Of  course, PBFH protested, but I still wanted my daughter in therapy for the PAS being done to her.  We got another therapist (I made sure I was involved in the selection) and I made sure I have been there for EVERY session.  Any decent therapist will want to encourage the participation of BOTH parents.  This therpaist was biased in the beginning.  BM brought in records from the original therapist, and began her same tactic, but I was there to refute what was untrue, and tell my side every time.  We did have some sessions where only BM was with him, and other sessions where it was just me, the point is that you are proving to the therapist that you are active and concerned for your child.  Another hint, do NOT bad-mouth PBFH.  You may voice concerns you have, but always try not to sound like you are bad-mouthing her.  The therapist will see that your personal feelings against BM may impact your judgmenet with regards to your child, remember it's about the child, not about you or BM, as long as you keep your comments centered around the child, the therapist will begin to see what is going on (eventually, we've been with this therapist for 6 months, and only now is he starting to see the light!).

[rainbow1]

DO NOT LISTEN TO BM!!! The longer you don't do anything, the harder it will be to get back in the child's life.  They can not tell you they forbid you to see her without court order. State and federal law says both biological parent have a right to child's medical and school records, EVEN IF THEY DO NOT HAVE CUSTODY! The only way to stop you is if they have a court order specifically barring you from these records. Send doctor a letter requesting records, set deadline of five days. Tell the doctor you do not need to meet with her at this time, that you have hired another doctor to explain her records and treatment plan to you and your attorney. Get a copy of " denial of  visitation" form. Send one to BM every time your parenting/visitation time is denied, certified mail. Keep a copy for your records. Send the clerk of courts a copy every time.

[stepmom74]

Well, my husband called the counselor yesterday and asked how his daughter was.  He didn't tell him much, just that it was too soon to say and that she definitely does not want to stay with us right now.  He said he recommended that we not push her to stay with us because it will just add to the resentment she already has towards us.  My husband said that he would respect that if that's what the doctor recommended.  I found it hard to sit by and let him say that we can't see her.  It has been almost 2 months since we've seen her and the last time we had her she was fine.  It was only after she went home that this all started.  I'm afraid the longer she is away from us, the more her mother is influencing her.  

She only wants our child support and really doesn't care if we see my SD.  The BM has 2 other sisters and none of their children see their dad's either.  Convenient, isn't it?!  I think they are a bunch of man-haters and this is what they are teaching my SD to believe too.  I also believe her cousins are telling her that she doesn't have to see her dad and me if she doesn't want to because their mother's won't make them.  They are a wonderful family, let me tell you!!

Anyway, we have sent certified letters to her but she won't pick them up.  By the time she decides to get them, it's too late and she thinks she's gotten away with us not seeing my SD.  That's what happened when we sent her the "Notice of Intent to Exercise Visitation" form.  We planned on taking my daughter and SD to an amusement park and campground for almost a week.  We planned our whole vacation around the kid's entertainment.  When we went to pick her up, she wasn't even in town so we had to take my daughter by herself.  She had fun but it would have been more fun to have her sister there to play with.  It basically wrecked our whole vacation.  The day we got back home, the BM called and said that she didn't get our letter until that day.  We had proof that is was at her post office exactly a week earlier but she chose not to pick it up.  (I hope that doesn't matter in court.)  Well, I printed out the "Denial of Visitation" letter but the BM is out of town on her own personal vacation (sleazing around with her girlfriends at a week-long concert event).  She won't be back for a week.  I'm sure she won't pick that one up for at least 2 weeks!  My husband asked where his daughter was going to be and she said either her sister's or her mother's house but he was not to push for visitation anyway because the counselor said not to.  Well, after talking to the counselor, my husband has decided not to.  As far as I'm concerned, the BM doesn't care too much about her daughter because she keeps dumping her off somewhere and hasn't spend any time with her all summer.  She doesn't even take her kids with her when she goes on her summer vacations.  She would rather have her sisters, mother, or ex-husband watch their daughter than my husband.  There is no reason for it except that I believe she is jealous of our life together and never really gotten over my husband dumping her 10 years ago.  How can we prove that one in court?!  She has even told other people that her one wish for her daughter would be for her dad and mom to be together again for my SD's sake.  Isn't that a little pyscho?!

Anyway, we are waiting for the counselor to call us back and make another appointment to talk with us again.  He said my SD has another appointment with him next week and then he will consult with us.  We haven't said anything bad about the BM but she has already showed him the certified letters we've sent her.  She is trying to make us sound bad but I hope he can see through that.  We won't say anything bad about her--even though I would love to tell him stories about the times she broke into our house, pulled a gun on my husband when they were dating, tried pushing him out of a moving vehicle, etc...... the list goes on, and on.  Good mother-figure, huh!  No wonder why my SD is sooooo messed up.

Thanks for your help.  I hope we are doing everything we can at this point.  We haven't found a lawyer yet because my husband wants to wait until we find out what the counselor has to say.  I want to file contempt charges now, before it's too late.  She shouldn't be getting our money and not let us see his child.  I want her punished for her actions.  The problem is, we really don't have the money to spend on a lawyer because I'm having a new baby in a little over a week.  I go in to be induced on the 15th.  I was hoping to have my SD there with us when the baby was born, but I guess that won't be happening.  I thought that would have been important to her but she keeps showing how little she cares for us now-a-days.  It makes me sad for my own children--to have a step-sister that doesn't care about them the way I know she used to.  I guess there isn't much I can do right now.  She really doesn't understand what she is missing out on.

Any suggestions are appreciated and I wish everyone the best in their own battles.

Thanks,

Stepmom74