not sure where I should of posted this but here is the deal...

[knoot7]

Hi all,

I am brand new here - I belong to another website and they sent me here for advice.

A little Background.....

DH and BM share physical and legal custody of SS. For the last four years we have had a system in place where we get him every Wed, Thurs, and every other weekend....and she has him every Mon, Tues and every other weekend. It turns out to be 2 days one week and then 5 days the next week. All worked well...no real troubles. Thankfully DH's lawyer was good so we don't pay child support since he is with us 50% or more of the time, even have what years we get to claim him on our taxes sepcified! :) Before you freak about child support - we pay for his health, dental, his hair cuts, all clothes on our side and then some....we take great care of my SS VERY well.

OK since the last weekend of April - we have had SS every weekend one or more days of the weekend (when it isn't suppose to be our weekend). WE never complained even when we were painting a house, moving, moving to a temp house, moving to a new house etc...we just said sure we will take him. Turned out BM had a boyfriend who is now gone. Anyway - literally we have had him all the time. Two weekends ago we didn't have him and no plans on taking him..so we took off for the weekend to Maine...turns out BM ditched the boy again to a old friend whom SS didn't know yet. We almost turned around but decided we needed the get away. Next she has been consistently ditching him on Tuesdays as well. So needless to say she has him one day a week if that.....we have all of the dates documented so we have kept track of all of this.

This past weekend - we were carving pumpkins - he asked if we could speak to BM and have him stay with us on the weekend in two weeks cause he wants to go to my nephew's birthday party as well as see me off at the airport for a business trip. He asked us to ask so he doesn't look like he is choosing us over his mother...we said of course. Then just said that hey - you should just live with us full time....he said enthusiastically - that would be great! His mother has broken a million of promises to him..taking him to get a pumpkin, stop smoking and her making excuses (but both DH and I have quit), getting him clothes, getting a car on the road and all sorts of other stuff.....so he is constantly being let down. After trick or treating in our town he is excited to have every Halloween with us. He has already asked to set up plans for a party, for friends to stay with us etc....and said he doesn't want to not spend Halloween anywhere else. He is 10 but mind you he is the size of a 12 + year old, he is very smart and beyond his actual age. For example when he said that he has asked her to stay home with him instead of ditching him and going out - she said no. HE then said he was better off anyway when she goes out..I questioned why - his response "She stomps around the hosue acting like a spoiled teenager that can't go to a party. She yells and screams all night and the next day. So it is better off she goes out" - EXACT WORDS OF A TEN YEAR OLD! SO us trying to tell her not to go out won't work if her own son's pleas won't work...

Now here is the question - although usually it is age 13 the courts will let you decide...when do you think enough is enough and we just go fo full custody? DO you think the courts will say no come back in three years? There really isn't a change in school cause he is with us more often than not and he is getting all straight A's this year (last she she left her then husband so he was failing classes)...there really hasn't been any circumstancial changes other than his mother constantly ditching him to go out. Even when she lies he knows when she is lieing and tells us. He thrives with us, he is happy, has his own large room, computer, TV. dog two cats everything a kids could want this kid has at our house. Her she gets her phone turned off, has had 9 phone numbers in the last two years. she has TV and stuff taken away, sporatic internet connections, and ditches him ALL the time.....

When is a good time to go fo full custody?WOuld this be enough to consitute a change ??

Thanks all!

[joni]

You're nuts woman!  Talk about biting the hand that feeds you!

IT AIN'T BROKE....DON'T FIX IT!

Let sleeping dogs lie!  You have an amazing arrangement, with a little more time, you'll have that kid all of the time.  Let nature run its course.  You have an arrangement that I would give my eye teeth for instead of the measley 6 days a month we now get with my SD.

So you want sole custody...what does that mean?  Are you trying to take aware the BM's parental rights?  Sole custody means you make major decisions in the child's life without regard for the other parent.  Sounds like you already have that.  Sounds like with this mom, you can tell her what you want to do with SS and she could care less.

What do you think this motion will accomplish?  Nothing.  You have to give the mother visitation rights even if you have sole custody.  Just take what you have.  And keep taking what the mom gives you.  Otherwise, you'll bring this before the judge and suddenly mom will want her son back and you'll end up with less.  Mark my words.

So your SS has his mom's number.  It's good that he understands that she has issues and he knows he can get his stability from his father and you.  End of story.

You aren't a troll are you?  Your story sounds too good to be true.

[kiddosmom]

Well other then the rude comments to you, I agree with the previous poster. Right now you have what most parents wish they had, leave it as is for awhile, taking it back to court will only make your situation look pety. It is great you all have a good relationship, keep it up!

[knoot7]

I guess what I want to accomplish is a stable schedule for SS. I understand that BM will have her child I certainly don't want to take him away from her - but I would perfer to let her spend quality time with him. If that means limiting the time she has officially - that would be in his best interest. He is such a great kid and yes does have the stability he deserves with us . I just hate to see him ditched all the time and him feeling like BM doesn't want to be with him - which it is turning into in his eyes. If she had Mondays and one weekend a month - since that is all she has taken him for the last 6 months perhaps it would be quality time instead of her ditching him to a friends house- to nonna's (grandma - my MIL) house or what not, ya know? She is going to go out on the town no matter what - I just want to take SS out of that situtaion and provide him with the best in life. We wouldn't take any of her money - we don't need it so that certainly isn't our motive. We provide everything for SS including vacations, camping trips, cooking classes, clothes, private school, etc.  I have given him an interest in cooking, camping, kayaking etc....I just want him to have the stability that he deserves instead of feeling left all the time. Some of this is my own need to have a schedule as well. We no longer plan much of adult things knowing that we will have  SS one day or all of the days and if we do - we take him with us or purchase another ticket for him to go to the show with us. I guess I want a stable schedule for SS sake as well as mine.  

I realize I have a great relationship with SS (which wasn't always this way) - we love each other. HE even thanked his father for marrying me. He thrives at our house - DH and I just want him with us all the time.  She has tried in the past to take us to court  - she wanted full custody so she could get child support and try to buy a house with her last husband, but realized that she was going to loose. The contrast between houses, families, education, living arrangements was too large for her to overcome and prove that she should have full custody. Even the law guardian was on our side...she would of lost her son and we would of had him full time...but she decided to drop the case after my DH accidentally hit speaker phone button while hanging up the phone...she over heard us speaking.:)

Just so you know - I do promote him seeing his mother, I don't want to take him away from her, but I do want him full time so he can thrive. According to him all she does is yell and his little sister too...so he gets overwhelmed at her house with both of them yelling all the time...DH and I we have our moments but usually he isn't with us...and if he is we speak sternly but no yelling is going on ...so he can see that yelling isn't a normal part of life. I also never speak poorly of BM in front of him or while he is with us.

Oh yeah - I am not a troll  : ) This story is true....DH loves his son adn has been with him the whole time - even when BM dicthed them both for the first year and a half of SS life! DH had a great lawyer, BM didn't care, and well DH was just lucky. BM can be a female dog but we mostly ignore it and don't ahev to deal with it as much. I am Just a parent who has come to love her SS and hates to see him hurting. I know since he is already wising up to her game, head games, lies and her priorities, I just wish he didn't have to be wise to it and avoid much of it by being with us all the time.

Thanks for the advice and the insight I appreciate it a great deal!

Hugs

[knoot7]

OK another point I want to say - kids need some basic items to thrive -
What I mean is, kids need a few VERY basic things. Their own space and a roof over their head that they can call home. Food on the table. Clothes that keep them warm and dry. And consistency!!!  SS is getting MAYBE food from her....  The clothes, the home (and I mean HOME, not a dwelling but a place that is welcoming and warm), all that comes from DH and I.  And the consistency. He knows what he can count on when he's with us. So why do we have to sit there and watch this woman destroy this child? Yes we get the advantage that we get SS with us and Bm dicthes the boy all the time.....I can deal with letting her have him for a weekend here and there or one day a week - but why do we have to sit and watch this woman provide nothing for SS?

 The latest - we couldn't get a hold of her last night to say good night to SS.... turns out - she didn't answer her phone cause she didn't want to tell us she moved out of her apartment and is staying at a friends house...this friend has three kids - this would be 5 kids in a 3 BR house and two adults that wouldn't be able to share a bed. SS JUST met these people two weeks ago when she ditched him to go out....so we should just sit and wacth his grades go down the tubes cause he doens't ahve a place to stay at her house?

OK enough of that - I do understand you views...it just really stinks when we provide everything...she provides absolutely nothing to him...I so want him with us full time so he doens't ahve to deal with this sort of stuff...Cable being turned off, phone sbeing tunred off, moving without knowing it, men in and out, her forcing him to like her last boyfriend, her not having a car and ditching because of it, giving broken promises and the whoel nine yards - ti angers me so much that we shouldn't do anything to keep this childs life stable and secure.

[dsm]

Now, mind you, hind sight is 20/20 and this is very much what I am basing my statements on.

You say already that you have your SS most of the time.  Your gripe seems to be that his mother doesn't spend her time with him and instead puts him off on other people.   Is that the basis of everything?  You have to realize that in the big picture of things, the number of times that you change your phone number or had items taken away, the most important thing is whether there is food, clothing, shelter for the child.  It doesn't matter if he has no computer or video games or never gets to eat out when he is with his mother.  These are luxuries and not critical to caring for a child.

How about if instead of starting the court battle, your DH suggest to the mom here that your SS be left with you when she needs to go out, or cannot take him.  Do this without accusing, or putting her on the defensive.  

I can about guarantee that any civil nature that has been there will go straight out the window if you file a motion.  My advice would be to try to work with her now - get her to think that you are doing her a favor - and avoid a court battle.

Good luck!

==============================================================================

dsm - 34
DH - 37
SD - 15
LO - 8
BB - 17 months
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2 Cheap Entertainment cats - Snoop & Dagger - 5 years and counting.....

[joni]

From what you're saying, he's only seeing his mom about 2 days during the week.  Understand that the judge probably won't make her visitation less than that.  Judges are really funny about moms.  Read some of the posts here, nothing makes sense or has common sense applied.

If you're talking child endangerment and/or mental abuse, now you're going to have to call in Child Protective Services and sign the child and mom up for court order psych counseling.

The judge could order this that and the other but once mom got her act together, the judge would make them go back to what they were until she screws up again.

I totally sympathize, I do.  In many ways, my DH and I are going through the same thing that you are with his daugther.  It is very frustrating to watch another parent be so incompetant and you're helpless to do anything.

[knoot7]

Thanks! Yeah we have decided no court battle yet - we will wait till SS says he wants to live with us and his decision is able to be held up in court. As for the luxuries - yes those are not needed - but she doesn't provide clothes - we do, she provides food...that he cooks for himself ( he cooks dinner), her shelter was fine for the past two years since she got her apartment - now she is out of an apartment and is living in a room with her, SS, and her daughter in a friends house...personally I do not think a 10 year old should be sharing a room with his mother and sister or sleeping on a couch during the school week when we have a bedroom for him. Children have the basic needs and she is providing them half @$$. Until I so gently said last year at a teacher conference ask if they taught hygeine she wasn't even keeping him clean. I had to get her angry at me to realize she wasn't making him brush his teeth or shower for 5 days....thankfully for the most part he stays clean other at her house now.

We are and have taken him every weekend she goes out. Some times we don't know until we call to say goodnight that he is somewhere else....like what happend two weeks ago when he went to her friend J's house. She is sneaky and decietful when it comes to that stuff. We have offered and we do get him alot....we definitely make it out to be us helping her out..... I just want to give him a stable schedule so he isn't disappointed all the time....it comes down to it - as this stinks that DH and I have to stand by and watch her hurt SS. He is wising up and knows her game so in time he will be asking to stay with us....that is when the court battle will begin and we will have to try our best to keep his wishes known to the courts but not to her so she won't lash out at him for choosing us. She already did that when I took him some place speacial for his birthday and took off from work...since I took off from work she was angry and made him think she hated him, refused to give him a hug, kiss goodbye, refused to look at him ...to the point he was hysterical thinking Mommy hated him for no reason (he didn't know I was taking him someplace special it was a surprise)

Thanks so much for the insight - it really brought to light what I should or shouldn't do. I am a fighter by nature and want to take things head on - apparently I can't do this that way!

You all have been great

[Kitty C.]

How far away do you live from the BM???  I ask, because if it's close enough, your SS could sooner or later 'vote with his feet', since it's apparently he's already got her number..............

If you know what I mean..............

[joni]

You have to change your signature, instead of the brick, say "Let your kids vote with their feet!"

It's really become your moniker.  Great advice by the way, why put your trust to the judge, when your kids are old enough, when they can just leave and come to your house anyway!  Way to beat the system.

:*

[Kitty C.]

I suppose the reason why I lean towards it is that I see it happening in our case, especially since SS is ONLY 2 blocks away!

Two years ago, when DH had his license suspended for a DUI, he and SS would walk back and forth...then later SS told us of a dream he had where he just got on his bike and came over to our house to stay, PERMANENTLY!  It wasn't our intention to instill this, rather it gave DH and SS some serious one-on-one time.

What I have heard over and over, is that the CO is ONLY between the parents, that since the child(ren) are not named as petitioners or respondents in the action, they 'are not bound by it'.  Thus they are not in contempt if they choose to go to the other parent's home when it's not that parent's time.  And even if it made it to court, and a judge reinforces the existing order, he still has no control over that child...unless that child were to go someplace other than a parent.

And when it happens often enough, the court will throw up their hands and let the child live where they want to live.  The problem is, it takes a VERY determined child to make it happen.......but it DOES happen.

[knoot7]

I wish it was walking distance unfortunately it is not. We live about 40 minutes away from her. He goes to school  near NOnna's hosue and has "before/after school care" at his Nonna's hosue which is the central point for him. He has been making the choice to stay at Nonna's house on Tuesdays and just recently he has gone to our house...but for months every Tuesday he asked to stay with Nonna's for one reason or another...he is already making the choice - but he doesn't want to hurt her feelings so he will find excuses and make excuses to stay at a friends house or at Nonna's instead of being with her - even opting/asking to visit his aunt so he doesn't have to stay with Bm. I just wish he didn't have to feel like this ...and just isn't old enough in the courts eyes....

He is also too sensitive to tell BM that he doens't want to be with her adn rather stay with us - it would definitely have to be court ordered since first she wouldn't listen to him and refuse his wishes and then second lash out at him and hurt him mentally. As of right now instead of him asking to stay with us - he asks us to ask her so it doesn't look like he is asking...and choosing us. He wants to make everyone but himself happy. I ahve tried to talk with him abotu this - but it really is just who he is...he cares about everyone and their feelings - which of course I can't fault him for it! :)

[wendl]

You are lucky you get to spend so much time with ss.

I would suggest getting a journal and documenting all the time that you have with ss.  By doing this you will esablish a status quo so to speak that you have have ss over 50% of the time.

If mom is being civil continue to work with her, ask her that if for some reason she has plans could you watch ss etc.

Best wishes.
**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[joni]

*****If mom is being civil continue to work with her, ask her that if for some reason she has plans could you watch ss etc.******


you know, there's a good thought there.  if the mom doesn't feel threatened by you guys and realizes that she could leave the son with you, without ramifications, she would trust to do so.

I thought of two related things to support this.  just read in my local paper about a baby being abandoned at a firestation around the corner from my house.  there's an amnesty law in Illinois, so parents can abandon their children without prosecution.  if your SS's mom feels she won't be prosecuted by you and your husband for 'abandoning' her child with you, she may be prone to do so.

But then I thought that you have a complicating factor here.  Mom's got another child.  Is this child your SS's half sibling?  I think this may be creating the situation.  Maybe she only 'dump' SS with you when she has arrangement for her other child to be 'dumped' somewhere.  Maybe what's happening if that mom is forced to dump both children with other friends when she doesn't have arrangements for the other child.

The same thing happens to my cousin's sister in law.  She's got 2 kids by 2 different dads.  She's often left in a position where the dad's family of one kid will take their child but not the other.  As a consequence, because she doesn't have arrangements for the other kid, she doesn't let the other child go to dad's family.

[knoot7]

The problem I have is that there isn't any ramifications of her dumping him off to us or anyone else for that matter. We are letting her get away with not taking any responsibility for her son or her actions of going out and not holding her son to the quality time she USE to spend with him. There is a difference - she wasn't always like this - before she would smother him with love, kisses and such to the point he would get annoyed with it...and now to the other extreme - no love, no time and no responsibility for her change in actions. She can ditch him anytime - and yes we take him any time but when are they held accountable for their actions? When it enough enough and it is time for her to stop hurting her son? It isn't fair to SS to have a mom and now not have it. If his expectations are to only see her once a week - it would be different and he wouldn't be disapppointed all the time. If she didn't have him full time he would knwo he is wanted at our house, he woudl have the family time he needs and thrives on and he would know what to expect. With her he has no clue when he is going to get ditched....he didn't even know he was moving until she drove him to her friends house and then told him she moved. She wouldn't let him talk to him father about the fact that he moved either! When he said to talk to Mommy and DH called her - afterwards she called SS up and freake dout on him for talking to DH! Uggg...it just makes me so angry that I get to sit by and watch this woman take no responsibility of her actions, of her son, or anything for that matter. I hate to see SS hurting and having to learn to play the game so she doesn't know he wants to be with us. I hate to see how intelligent he has gotten of her and how to work it...he is 10 and shouldn't have to do all of this.

AS for dumping at friends houses - yeah she dumps him at friends houses when she doesn't want us to know she is dumping him, when Nonna isn't home or when we aren't home. She usually gives Nonna first choice then asks us. Nonna calls us and if we can we take him  - we take him. AS of late we have been offering to have him and she doens't hesitate. We offer to avoid him being dumped at friends houses. As for his 1/2 sister - she gets dumped somewhere else. Usually with her babysitter and now that BM has a car will be dumped off to her dad. She will separate the kids without issue and she totally treats them both differently.

I know I have it good here we are lucky that BM doesn't want SS around...she only ahd him to trap DH in the first place.....when that didn't happen and she realzied he didn't ahve a ton of money she left DH adn SS alone for almost two years - she has already abandonded SS once in his life already! To sit by and watch SS hurting really stinks! Especially if I could be doing something about it!