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Author Topic: Opinions on Child Vaccinations??...*everybody*  (Read 5172 times)

TPK

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Opinions on Child Vaccinations??...*everybody*
« on: Jan 11, 2005, 12:05:37 PM »
My tale of woe involving wife & 9 month old child can be found over in Soc's board, too long to rehash here.


A real bugaboo between wife & I are the child vaccinations.

I want daughter to get them, wife doesn't.

Wife's refusal has nothing to do with Religion etc.

Wife does not rely upon medical professionals for advice on this matter. In fact, wife has taken child for well checks only 2 times since birth.

Seems that wife read about the MMR-Autism research and believed it. For those who don't know about this MMR study, a UK research team found a supposed link between MMR & Autism. Study was published but later retracted so now this issue appears dead. It did however, scare a lot of parents, and preyed upon the fears of these parents.

I believe the vaccinations are SO vital to the child's health that I would never imagine not having her vaccinated. Yes there can be adverse reactions to vaccines, but they are few and far between and the risk of NOT vaccinating is greater than the risk of vaccinating. My opinion was formed by meeting with pediatricians and asking them questions about all this. I have yet to find a pediatrician who is against vaccinations.

Being that this is a child related forum, I felt this was an excellent chance to get opinions from forum members about this.


1. Please give me your general opinions on vaccinations...Pro & Con.

2. Anybody not vaccinating and for what reasons??

3. Anybody's child have a bad reaction to a shot and what was it??..and what was the outcome??

4. Anybody have to go thru court to get a child vaccinated?

5. Anybody that did go thru court and got an order to not vaccinate I'd love to hear from.....and why court ordered it.


I intend to battle this issue in court, and hope to win. Any past experiences with this issue in court with any forum member will help me.


None of my friends or family members ever resisted getting a child vaccinated. I have asked for opinions from all of them, none suggested not having child vaccinated.

My daughter is already way behind in these vaccinations. I can't imagine what I'd do if child somehow died or became permanently ill from not getting vaccines. Not to mention what I'd do to wife if this happened as well!

Insights???

Cheers!

TPK






joni

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RE: Opinions on Child Vaccinations??...*everybody*
« Reply #1 on: Jan 11, 2005, 01:50:56 PM »
I feel very strongly about this.  There is no relation to MMR and autism.  Absolutely none.  There's no validity to mercury poisoning either.  Most dosages are single generated doses and do not contain mercury.  You get more mercury exposure from eating a can of tuna than you are exposed on mass produced vaccines.

Not having your child vaccinated can kill you child.  Further, it unnecessarily exposes all children to this given people who do not vaccinate their child rely on people who do vaccinate their child in order to minimize their children's exposure to viruses.  For example, a classroom of 30 kids, 29 is vaccinated, one is not.  The one child who is not vaccinated is safer because the other 29 kids are, and this is not because the dangers do not exist.  

It's like playing roulette.  You can only afford to win as much as you want to lose.  These are the facts: chicken pox can kill your child, mumps can kill your child, measles can kill your child.

Here's the web site for the CDC's National Immunization Program

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/

Info on vaccine safety:

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/gen/of-interest.htm

Here's the web site for the American Academy of Pediatrics

http://www.aap.org/healthtopics/immunizations.cfm

.    
Why Immunizations are Important

"I've heard that vaccines are not needed because these diseases were disappearing even before the vaccines were developed."

This is not true. Many diseases do not occur or spread as much as they used to, thanks to better nutrition, less crowded living conditions, antibiotics, and, most importantly, vaccines. However, this does not mean that the bacteria and viruses that are responsible for these diseases have disappeared. Immunizations are still needed to protect children from these diseases.

For example, Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) diseases were a major problem a few years ago until the vaccine was developed for infants. Over several years, we went from 20,000 cases of Hib diseases to less than a few hundred. The vaccine is the only explanation for this decrease. Unvaccinated children are still at risk for Hib meningitis and other serious illnesses.

"Chickenpox is not a fatal disease, so that vaccine is not necessary."

This is not true. Each year, about 9,000 people are hospitalized for chickenpox. About 100 people die from the disease. The chickenpox vaccine will protect most children from getting chickenpox. Since the vaccine was licensed in 1995, millions of doses have been given to children in the United States. Many studies show the vaccine is safe and effective. Research is being done to see how long protection from the vaccine lasts and whether a person will need a booster shot in the future.

"I am breastfeeding so my child doesn't need immunizations."

Immunizations are still needed. While breastfeeding is the best nutrition for your baby, it does not prevent infections the way vaccines do. Your child may have fewer colds, but breastfeeding does not protect against many serious illnesses such as whooping cough, polio, and diphtheria like immunizations do.

"These diseases have been virtually eliminated from the United States, so my child doesn't need to be vaccinated."

Without immunizations at the right times, your child can still catch infectious diseases that may cause high fever, coughing, choking, breathing problems, and even brain injury. These illnesses may leave your child deaf or blind or cause paralysis.

Immunizations have reduced most of these diseases to very low levels in the United States. However, some of these diseases are still common in other parts of the world. Travelers can bring these diseases into this country. Without immunizations, these infections could quickly spread here.

Immunizations also help people who cannot be vaccinated or who do not respond to vaccines. They can only hope that people around them are immunized.

©  COPYRIGHT AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.    


sharptimes5

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RE: Opinions on Child Vaccinations??...*everybody*
« Reply #2 on: Jan 11, 2005, 03:12:24 PM »

>1. Please give me your general opinions on vaccinations...Pro
>& Con.
>
I am the mother of a 2 yo boy, custodial sm to an 8yo girl and have another due in March.  In our state, a child must have certain vax to be able to attend school, not to mention the fact that I really wouldn't want my child playing with a child who hadn't been vaccinated.  To me, an injection that causes pain for a few days far outweighs the risk of getting a disease that will last for weeks or possibly cause death.  I don't really have any cons on the subject.

>3. Anybody's child have a bad reaction to a shot and what was
>it??..and what was the outcome??
>
My 2 yo had a bad reaction to the chickenpox shot.  It didn't cause any permanent damage of any sort, but he did have a high temp, swelling at the injection site and an ugly rash.  When that happened, I did kick myself for allowing the vax since it's not required, but nothing truly bad came out of it.

>My daughter is already way behind in these vaccinations. I
>can't imagine what I'd do if child somehow died or became
>permanently ill from not getting vaccines. Not to mention what
>I'd do to wife if this happened as well!
>
Your daughter can be caught up slowly with her missed vax.  I was out of the state for approximately a month with our son due to a family emergency and missed an appt for my son where he was to recieve 3 shots, but they spread them out over his next 2 appointments with no problem at all.
What is your wife planning to do about your daughter's education?  Is she planning on homeschooling her for her entire education?  I plan on homeschooling my son for the first 3 years of his elementary education, but still got his vax done.  I know that most public schools will not allow a child to enroll without a vax record...could be useful for your case.

Carol

MyAngels4

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RE: Opinions on Child Vaccinations??...*everybody*
« Reply #3 on: Jan 11, 2005, 06:03:05 PM »
I wanted to answer a couple of your questions here. I am the CP of 3, ages 11, 8, 7 and my hubby has 50/50 of his daughter age 8.

>1. Please give me your general opinions on vaccinations...Pro
>& Con.
>3. Anybody's child have a bad reaction to a shot and what was
>it??..and what was the outcome??


My oldest and my youngest (both boys) have had all their vaccinations.

My middle child (my daughter) had and allergic reaction (so the Dr's determined) to the Pertussis part of the DTP shot. BUT, she had lost weight, instead of gaining and when she got the DTP at 2 months, the Dr. should have listened to me and done some more investigation of why she wasn't gaining weight. She basically was turning blue and having trouble breathing. She was life flighted to Dsm, and is fine today. Although while there, we found out she had a disorder and that is why she wasn't gaining weight. She is blind, autistic, and MR, with other issues. I do NOT contribute this to the MMR vaccine, it is related to the disorder, which she had at birth, but wasn't caught by the Dr's. She wasn't given the pertussis part of the DTP again, and just given the DT.

If you will see I said I have a younger son. Even after the problems with my daughter, I went ahead and had him vaccinated and he is fine today, in fact, I think he is the brightest of all three of my children.

I think some of the main concern about linking MMR and autism is the Thermisol connection. Perhaps making sure that this is not in the shot, will help alleviate any fears.

HTH,
MyAngels4

ocean

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Child will need it for school.....
« Reply #4 on: Jan 11, 2005, 06:18:21 PM »
What does the ex say about that? LOL You can not enroll your child here unless you have a whole list of shots and they just added the chicken pox shot to the list this past year...even the older children need to get it now to stay in school.  Would this get her on the ball with it?? Call the school district nearest you and ask...if you go down there, they should have the form for you with the list of madatory shots.
I work in the shcool, and I have seen a couple of children get the chicken pox with and without the shot so not sure how much that helps but it seems to get most of them immuned. As for the rest?? I just would not want my child with Polio or the others and the Pro's outweigh the few that have problems with it.


TPK

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RE: Child will need it for school.....
« Reply #5 on: Jan 11, 2005, 07:22:35 PM »
I believe my wife has some sort of mental disorder. She just was never the same person after giving birth.

It's like talking to a brick wall on the vaccinations, she's misinformed and stubborn in her ways.

I TOLD her child will need it for school, she doesn't listen.

Problem is, she thinks she's acting in child's best interests, but is unaware that her idea of best interests isn't the same as the rest of the world.

Keep the opinions coming, this is great input!

TPK

janM

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RE: Child will need it for school.....
« Reply #6 on: Jan 11, 2005, 08:29:41 PM »
I once saw footage of a child with whooping cough. It was dreadful. It looked like the child was drowning in mucus.

Maybe showing her something like that will have an effect. I hope so.

Can you report her, or can her doctor, for medical neglect?

TPK

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RE: Child will need it for school.....
« Reply #7 on: Jan 11, 2005, 09:12:01 PM »

>
>Can you report her, or can her doctor, for medical neglect?


My doctor called child services and they investigated her. Caseworker told me it's not a crime to not take child to dr. or not vaccinating.  I guess they're waiting for something serious to happen.

My wife lied to them about everything too.

She's just a BAD parent.

TPK

KAT

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Make an INFORMED CHOICE!!!
« Reply #8 on: Jan 12, 2005, 09:07:24 AM »
Personally, I agree with your wife. My 4 year old is not vaccinated and I’ll share my story as to why that is. I also have a 20 year old son. He was such a wonderful child when he was born. Happy, healthy, great baby. Then he was vaccinated at 4 months. His world, my entire world changed with a single stick of that needle. At the time I had no flipping idea, now I know better. I have photos taken at intervals during his infancy (of course). You can see a distinct reaction caused by the vaccinations due to the size of his head. Following his vaccinations he SCREAMED blood curdling screams for 48 hours straight. I called the ER. The doctor on duty said just give him Tylenol he might have pain at the injection site. It didn’t work I called back & was told yeah, sometimes they just cry after they are vaccinated. NO kidding? Brain swelling ya’ think? Fast forward this kid was NEVER EVER THE SAME. He had sensory problems, he could barely be touched. The house had to be totally quiet or he would be set off. He never slept a full night again. He potty trained himself at 17 months simply because he was unable to tolerate the wet feeling of the diaper. He diagnosed first by our family doctor then by a specialist at John Hopkins at the age of THREE with ADD & ADHD. Needless to say the rest of his life is and was a battle. I had to learn a great deal of patience & some hard core parenting skills. Any question as to why I have a 16 year difference between my children is explained above. You think I wanted to be an older Mom, no but I knew that there was NO WAY I could handle it again.

Again, I trusted the doctors. No, ADD isn’t caused by vaccinations we don’t know why some get it some don’t. I consider that a great big crop of bureaucratic doodoo. Yes, it is a conspiracy. Do you actually think for one minute the drug companies are ever going to admit it & face total ridicule, lawsuits & bankruptcy? NO.

You know, we put much more research into the new cars that we buy then what we allow the doctors to put into our children’s little bodies. How many actually read the pamphlet that comes with that toxic substance? Very few. It’s the cattle mentality that leads us to believe the government and the doctors. You also do realize that your nice family doctor who makes big fat sloppy profits from vaccinations also has immunity from your lawsuits don’t you? You can’t sue him/her. Try this test; this is what I did after being held against my will by my son’s doctors. I told him that okay, I’ll agree with what he was saying but first he would have to sign a letter from my doctor that would guarantee he could be held personally financially responsible for any and all adverse reactions that my son experienced. Two weeks later we were forwarded a letter from the practice that whoops, he no longer works there. Go figure. If vaccinations don’t cause serious injury and death then WHY do we have the Vaccination Compensation Board? Because they DO. If you believe for one minute that statistics that they put out then you have been FOOLED. The statiscs do NOT show settled cases. The average wait to go to trail is 8 years. Parents of severely injured children have bills to pay they don’t have that long to wait so they settle. Sad but understandable. However what is NOT told to you is that these settlements (because they don’t claim fault) are not included in their so called statistics and the parents agree to a permanent gag order. Nice huh?

If you think for one minute that ANY of the states have laws that totally & fully REQUIRE you to vaccinate your children then you obviously HAVE NOT done your homework. That is a FALSE ASSUMPTION. Every single state has exemptions for religious, medical or philosophical. In VA it’s a simple notarized statement that is available on line from the health department.

You really don’t think that for one minute if polio (which according to the CDC has now been eradicated in the US) will come back wearing the same hat which your children & yourself have been vaccinated against do you? The same with small pox. It changes all the time. Vaccinations do not offer lifetime immunity. I was vaccinated in 1963 I still caught the mumps & the measles. I now have lifetime immunity. My friend had her kids vaccinated for the whooping cough, the GOT the whooping cough (albeit in a milder form) but they got it several times in a one year span.

The biggest piece of marketing for a vaccination I have ever witness to is the chicken pox vaccination. Don’t worry parents!! You won’t loose time off work because we can fix it so your kid doesn’t get sick. Your child will also not be guaranteed immunity. They still don’t know how long it will last. Serious complications arise when adults get the chicken pox. You also might want to investigate why Japan is now researching that this vaccine is the primary reason for the increase in a very rare form of DEADLY testicular cancer in very young men (they been using it for 25 years).

Folk, I could go on here but I will close with saying this. There are OTHER ways to give vaccinations then combining them into one visit. Your doctor can order the vaccinations separately & you can pick them up at your local pharmacy. You can also wait until your child is more neurologically developed in order to vaccinate. If you went to get vaccinated today there is no difference in the dosage that would be given to your 4 week old. There are also many, many homeopathic remedies available should your child get sick.

There is NO REASON in the day & age of internet access to make a UNIFORMED CHOICE. I didn’t go looking for vaccinations to be the cause of my sons’ problem, I thought it was something I did, something I ate but highly extensive research in this area showed me otherwise. I’m listing some sites below. Also research INDEPENDENT studies not just those sponsored by the government or the drug companies.

http://www.909shot.com
http://www.vaclib.org./
http://www.lacarte.org/health/vaccination/
http://www.new-atlantean.com/mmr.htm
http://www.compassionatesouls.com/chickenpox.html

If ANYONE tried to vaccinate my child they would be arrested for assault with a deadly weapon and attempted murder.


KAT

TPK

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RE: Make an INFORMED CHOICE!!!
« Reply #9 on: Jan 12, 2005, 11:30:35 AM »
I have had the chance to speak with daughter's Dr when wife did take her there.

Doctor was very concerned about her not being vaccinated. He informed wife that this was the viral season and child is at great risk. His advice fell on deaf ears.

Wife told him "She doesn't need vaccinations because I don't take her to areas with high poverty"

I'm still scratching my head on that one.

She's also misinformed about diseases being eradicated. Yes, most are gone but  the USA is a revolving door where anybody can enter this country and spread a disease. It defies logic to think this can't happen.

Last week my wife was very ill with something (flu?) but doesn't seem to care that the child could die from getting what she has. Yes you can make informed decisions, but don't make unintelligent decisions based on being Naive.

Just look at the diseases going wild due to the Tsunami overseas. Tens of thousands could die just from the diseases.

Interestingly, there has been a lot of coverage and information about Tsunamis after what happened overseas. One of the reports I read from a scientist indicated that a Tsunami could happen on the East Coast (where I am). What happens if it does hit here and the diseases start popping up?

Reactions to vaccines appear to be the exception rather than the norm. I personally don't know anybody who ever had a bad reaction.

KAT, I'm sure if your 4 year old came down with a disease (and possibly died) that otherwise would've have been prevented by vaccines, you'd be on the other side of the fence.  I'm curious where these ant-vaccine sites get their research from (if any). I would also like to know how you determined your child suffered damages from a vaccine?

TPK

joni

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RE: Make an INFORMED CHOICE!!!
« Reply #10 on: Jan 12, 2005, 11:34:28 AM »

You're right, I think with the Tsunami, we're going to see epidemics that the world hasn't experienced in over 75 years.  Many diseases thought to be eradicated will be back with a vengeance.  With world travelers visiting the US, our population will be exposed.

Like the flu shot, vaccinations don't mean you won't get the disease.  You may get the disease BUT a very minor version of it.  I had the mumps and the chicken pox and the measles even after vaccinations.  Very minor case of each.

TPK

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RE: Make an INFORMED CHOICE!!!
« Reply #11 on: Jan 12, 2005, 11:40:55 AM »
Here's the requirements for NY State for school, day care etc.

http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/immun/2370.pdf

Seems that as of today, my child would not be able to even go to day care.

Home schooling might be an option for some people, but I don't believe in it, that's just my opinion. And as dumb as my wife seems to be, I wouldn't want my child learning anything from her.

TPK

ocean

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RE: Make an INFORMED CHOICE!!!
« Reply #12 on: Jan 12, 2005, 04:28:35 PM »
Kat...I think your situation is different. If your son did not have a reaction then you probably would be okay with it. There are those that have reactions but each person has to weigh them out. I have heard of many people who get the flu shot and then get the flu. I have chosen NOT to get it for the girls and I because I rather take my chances since we are usually healthy and since there are so many strain sout there. BUT ...to not get any of the major ones for no apperent reason?? If she had someone in her family who had a reaction that in one thing. hmmm...well it got me thinking! :)

leftoverinmn

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RE: Child will need it for school.....
« Reply #13 on: Jan 12, 2005, 06:36:21 PM »
I think government run public schools have to make accomidations for those overly religious parents who choose not to vaccinate. Otherwise it would be considered religious discrimination. I do recall getting an extra form in my boys enrollment papers this fall. It had to be signed by a doctor, it was for children who weren't vaccinated.

That might be the loophole she needs. I hope she comes around for the sake of your daughter.

TPK

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RE: Child will need it for school.....
« Reply #14 on: Jan 12, 2005, 09:12:19 PM »
Well, some schools do allow religious and philisophical beliefs as an excuse to not vaccinate.

Those beliefs do not apply here. She is paranoid.

It's going to come down to the Judge asking the Doctor's opinion, and we all know what the doctor will suggest. This might take time, but it will be done. She'll be forced to do it if she gets custody. If I get custody it's a no brainer.

TPK





jilly

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World Polio Cases Rose by a third in 2004
« Reply #15 on: Jan 13, 2005, 07:43:11 AM »
I know that this is in Nigeria but how long before it breaks out over here? I understand that this is a hot issue now but I, for one, have chosen to vaccinate my daughter.  Maybe I just got lucky because she never had a problem after getting one of her shots...I don't know.  All I know is I'd rather be safe than sorry.

==============================================

WHO: World polio cases rose by a third in 2004
Increase fueled by Nigeria outbreak after vaccine boycott
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 Posted: 5:07 PM EST (2207 GMT)

 
GENEVA, Switzerland (AP) -- The number of worldwide polio cases last year rose by almost one-third after a vaccine boycott in Nigeria spawned a resurgence of the disease across Africa, the World Health Organization said Wednesday.

The number of cases worldwide in 2004 reached 1,185, compared with 784 in 2003, the United Nations health agency said.

Most of the cases were in Africa -- largely in Nigeria, the continent's most populous nation. Hardline Islamic clerics in Nigeria's northern Kano state led the immunization boycott, claiming the polio vaccine was part of a U.S.-led plot to render Nigeria's Muslims infertile or infect them with AIDS.

The boycott triggered an outbreak across the continent, infecting children in formerly polio-free countries and hurting WHO-led attempts to eradicate the crippling disease by December 31, 2005.

"It's slowed the efforts for sure," said Sona Bari, a spokeswoman for WHO's Polio Eradication Initiative. "It's going to take months to deal with the effects."

Amid the vaccine boycott, the Nigerian-rooted virus spread to neighbor countries including Benin, Chad and Cameroon. It also was exported farther afield, to Botswana, Burkina Faso, Central African Republic, Ghana, Guinea, Mali, Togo and even Saudi Arabia.

Vaccination programs restarted in Nigeria in July after local officials ended their 11-month boycott. WHO also boosted immunization across Africa.

Nigeria, which had 763 cases last year versus 355 the year before, is one of the six countries where polio is still considered endemic. India had 129 cases, Pakistan 46, Niger 25, Afghanistan four and Egypt one.

Polio is a waterborne disease that usually infects young children, attacking the nervous system and causing paralysis, muscular atrophy, deformation and sometimes death.

When WHO launched its anti-polio campaign in 1988, there were more than 350,000 known cases worldwide.

Polio eradication efforts now face a $100 million shortfall, largely because of the costs of responding to the Nigeria-fueled outbreak, Bari said.

However, WHO does not fear its polio campaign will lose funding because of the massive global focus on helping Asian countries hit by December's tsunami disaster.

"Our donors are on board for the long haul," Bari said.

Efforts to defeat polio also have been hampered by civil war in Ivory Coast and Sudan, both hit by the Nigerian virus, WHO said. Experts are particularly worried the virus will spread from Sudan to Ethiopia and Congo -- which also is in the grip of conflict.

sharptimes5

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RE: Make an INFORMED CHOICE!!!
« Reply #16 on: Jan 13, 2005, 12:09:21 PM »
>Here's the requirements for NY State for school, day care
>etc.
>
>http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/immun/2370.pdf
>
>Seems that as of today, my child would not be able to even go
>to day care.
>
>Home schooling might be an option for some people, but I don't
>believe in it, that's just my opinion. And as dumb as my wife
>seems to be, I wouldn't want my child learning anything from
>her.
>
>TPK

I'm planning on home schooling my son after seeing the BS excuses the school system has had with my SD, but my boy is still vaccinated. :)

Carol

Genie

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Ok obvious question here but why don't you just....
« Reply #17 on: Jan 13, 2005, 12:21:21 PM »
take your child to the doctor and get the check ups and vaccinations done yourself.

Why is it only your wife's responsibility?  As the Father you have the responsibility of making sure your child gets what is needed to; not just the Mother.

So make the appointments and take her in for these things.  Many Pediatricians have evening and Saturday morning appointments if getting off work would be a problem.

I think a judge would be asking the same question too.  Or am I wrong in thinking you and your wife are still together and married?  If not, it seems there have been no custody orders or anything and even so unless specifically stated that she has all say in medical decisions, you have as much right to take your child to the doctor as she does.

So get moving and gets these done yourself.  Is it really necessary to go to court when all you have to do is pick up the phone or are you actually moving towards divorce at this stage anyways.

katz

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RE: Opinions on Child Vaccinations??...*everybody*
« Reply #18 on: Jan 13, 2005, 02:15:48 PM »
I am in the minority here, but I wont have my son get the chicken pox vaccine. The other ones were given when they were scheduled, I however have serious concerns about the chicken pox vaccine.

My son's dr said that decision is totally up to me, when I told him I was uncomfortable with that one. As for why I dont want the chicken pox vaccine, is I believe that is a tolerable illness for most children. I would rather have my son get it while he is young (thus the natural immunity that comes with getting them), to avoid the awful complications that can happen when an adult gets chicken pox.

My husband is not thrilled with the decision, he has never had the chicken pox as of yet (that anyone knows of dr said he could of possibly had such a mild case as a child no one noticed). Of course he knows it could be dangerous for him to get them now as an adult, and for that reason has to stay away from his own children if/when they get it (even when they get the vaccination as it is a small dose of the disease).  I just dont want to see my son in a similar situation, as an adult.

The public school can not force me to vaccinate my child, and I refuse and will continue to refuse the chicken pox vaccine.

My sd is autistic & adhd, and of course no one can know for sure how she got that way. I cant say it was vaccines, but I cant say it wasnt either. Obviously that didnt stop me from vaccinating my son, with most of the recommended vaccines, however I respect a parents right to make their own decision on whether to vaccinate or not. How the decision is made when 2 parents dissagree, I cant really help you with, but I respect her decision and yours. They both have valid points in the debate.


TPK

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RE: Ok obvious question here but why don't you just....
« Reply #19 on: Jan 13, 2005, 04:07:57 PM »
Because wife took child and left the state. As I said initially, if you want to hear my whole story go over to Soc's board and read. It's a very long complicated story.

It's not as easy as just doing it myself, if I could I would've already.

TPK


Genie

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...nm
« Reply #21 on: Jan 14, 2005, 12:00:21 PM »
nm

Genie

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I did read it and you were given visitation & no custody order...
« Reply #22 on: Jan 14, 2005, 12:05:45 PM »
has been made yet.  You have as much right to take her to the doctor and make medical decisions right now as she does. No judge is going to tell you you were wrong b/c you got her immunized.  "Well, I carry the insurance and she is out of state now so it was easier for me to do it b/c I know it will be covered here...." etc etc

There is no order telling you you can't make medical decisions. You have visitation at your house on several evenings.  Make appts during that time.  Plain and simple.

What has your attorney stated about this issue?

nikilax

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RE: I did read it and you were given visitation & no custody order...
« Reply #23 on: Jan 14, 2005, 12:52:31 PM »
The mother took the child and has been hidden for months, so TPK hasn't had an opportunity to take the child and do anything as of yet.

TPK

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RE: I did read it and you were given visitation & no custody order...
« Reply #24 on: Jan 14, 2005, 01:02:49 PM »
I do have visitation now including some overnites.

Judge in Orange County today said NO vaccinations. I'm not sure if this is Judge's stance on vaccines. The venue is being transferred to Ulster County and I'm guessing that Judge today wanted to let that County handle the vaccination debate.

Good news though. I will be going with wife next Tuesday to Dr for a child well check. This will be my chance to ask the Dr about vaccinations. This will be my 1st visit to Dr with child, and I intend to ask a whole lot of questions.

Thanks to everybody for taking time to give opinions on the vaccination issue.  I'll lay this to rest for now and give the forum an update when something happens with this issue.

Cheers!

TPK

Taichi

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RE: Opinions on Child Vaccinations??...*everybody*
« Reply #25 on: Mar 12, 2005, 01:34:17 AM »
(Health and Human Services will only get involved if the child has not seen the doctor in 12 months.)

I am against.

There are several doctors that have a problem with the current vaccination schedule. They feel it is unnecessary as well as stupid to have more than 2 vaccinations at one time. One of the biggest reasons for this is if there is a reaction you will have a better chance of knowing which one cause it.

Say your child goes in for a MMR, Polio, Hep B and Flu (just listing 4 random) and there are serious reactions. The parent will have to cut all four shots off of the child's vaccines instead of two. For those of you who are for vaccines, this is a good argument against the current schedule.

One specific pediatric doctor is seeing half vaccinated kids and half unvaccinated kids. In his experience the vaccinated kids have more ear infections and generally take longer to get over being sick.

There is a good reason for this. A child's immune system does not fully develop until age 2. To give them vaccinations before this compromises their immune system.

Right now a child has to recieve 21 shots in 3 to 4 years time. They are adding more shots all the time. There are already STD shots on the market and they are debating about adding those to our children's schedules.

Autism and MMR vaccine. The doctors who were examining this were doing blind testing. When they found the link all funding was cut off. The government has it's own agenda and they have done this in the past to things that were eventually proved to be fact and very harmful.

Mercury and vaccines. Even the medical industry has noticed how harmful mercury is to children and the current schedule has proven that the children are bombarded with more than twice the safe limit of mercury. NOW, it is true that current vaccines have little to no mercury, but ONLY if you are able to afford the fees of getting vaccines at the clinic.

If you have to go to a reduced or free clinic to immunize your child, your child will recieve the mercury-based vaccines.

Doctors are required to tell you before you immunize your child all the risks and benefits associated with the vaccine they are giving your child. Do they? No. This is illegal and medical malpractice.

Vaccines are also another cause of SIDS. In countries where vaccines are not required, they have rare to no cases of SIDS.

The DPT vaccine has been linked to ADHD, though in the site (direct from the company involved in making the vaccine) I came across ages ago, ADHD was called by one of it's many predecessors hyper-something or another. I would give you that link, except my computer was wiped since then and I lost it. I can give you this link however http://www.healing-arts.org/children/vaccines/vaccines-dpt.htm

http://www.whale.to/vaccine/law7.html This is a link to all reported injuries and deaths due to DPT. They do have links on all vaccine related injuries as well, tho I am not sure if it is on this site or another.

Chicken pox vaccine. Just a couple of things. One, by getting this vaccine you are at risk of giving your child chicken pox (as by giving your child any other immunization you are at risk of giving your child that disease) (My SIL found that out when her youngest had the varicella vaccine and developed chicken pox from it) but when your child gets chicken pox anyway (as is also possible) it has been proven that it will take your child longer to get rid of it than it would normally take.

My boys got chicken pox at age 21 months and 10  months. They came home from the doctor Monday (are normally kept between home and Grandma's house, sometimes the park and the store (carts are wiped down with anti-bacterial wipes)) and my eldest got the first mark of chicken pox on Wednesday. He was over it in 1 week. Had a healthy appetite and no fever or any other symptoms (other than the rash assocated with it). My youngest had it 2 weeks to the day later and again was over it in a little over 1 week. He did develop a small fever for 4 hours a couple of days after the spots showed, but again had a healthy appetite the entire time.

I had an entire folder of both pro and con on vaccines (taken from sources as non-biased as I could get) and in the end, I decided the risks were not worth the benefits. In addition to my religious and philisophical beliefs, this doubled my efforts in finding out the current laws in my state on vaccines.

No matter what my personal/religious/medical reasons are, this should not influence yours. Even if I was totally for them, that should not influence your desicion either.

This is your child. You need to read all pro and all con that you can (FYI, religious-based research is generally con, medical-based research (especially from institutes) is usually pro. You need to find resources that are as non-biased as you can find. Then you need to list your own pro and cons and find out if you are in agreement with your ex or against her.

Once this is done, you need to find out if you have any say in medical decisions, if you do, it might not be a bad idea to go in front of a mediator about this if you have decided your child needs these immunizations.

I guarentee you one thing. Based on what little information I have about your ex, if you go to mediation, there is a good chance she will not have any documents backing up her decision not to vaccinate. You, on the other hand, will. This will work against her.

I wish both you and your child the best of luck and I wish you the wisdom of Solomon. Peace be with you,
Taichi


wendl

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RE: Make an INFORMED CHOICE!!!
« Reply #26 on: Mar 13, 2005, 10:34:23 AM »
Well I had my son vacinated.

But I do understand where KAT is coming from, as my sons 1st daycare provider moved here from Brazil, she had her 1st child vacinated and he had serious reactions to this and major medical problems and died at a very young age, she did not vacinate her other 2 children when they arrived and they grew to be healty adults.

I think it is upto the parents but it needs to be an educated decision, my decision was to get my son vacinations as the bad reactions some have outweight the possitive ones (in my opinion)



**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

TPK

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Update on This Subject
« Reply #27 on: Mar 15, 2005, 07:20:37 PM »
I can give an update on this situation.

In Feb. I went with wife and child to the pediatrician. I figured this was my chance to get the doctor's opinion in the presence of the wife.

I brought up the vaccine issue right away with the Dr. I told him I was for the vaccinations, and wife chimed in with "I'm just delaying it for now".

Doc says "you're not delaying, you're refusing"

Doc hammered on her about how important the vaccines were, but did suggest a chick-pox vaccine was not really necessary. I tend to agree with Doc on that.

She used all her excuses such as autism, reactions, deaths from vaccines etc. Doc wasn't buying any of it.

After the well-check (child checked out fine, very healthy) the Doc stuck a paper in front of wife. It was a REFUSAL TO VACCINATE form in which he said she had to sign it cuz she's the CP right now.

I could see she was caught off-guard about having to sign this. She seemed very nervous all of the sudden. Doc says she's gotta sign it because he needs to cover his ass. She did sign it reluctantly but you could tell she was out-of-sorts after signing it.

I had thought that Doc might've gotten thru to her. Sadly, once we left she started again with her anti-vaccine diatribe and I could tell that what Doc told her had fallen on deaf ears.

So, it's gonna come down to bringing this issue up in court, and possibly getting a Doc's opinion as to what the child's best interest is.

Wish me luck.

TPK

Kitty C.

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RE: Update on This Subject
« Reply #28 on: Mar 16, 2005, 02:07:24 PM »
Talk about a INVALUABLE piece of evidence!  I betcha dollars to donuts, that doc would trip over himself getting you a copy of that form she signed.  And since you obviously have joint legal and it pertains to YOUR child, you have every right to have a copy.  Get one for court.

If, for whatever reason you are unable to get a copy directly from the doc (ex throws a fit, HIPAA law, etc.), tell your atty. you want the child's medical records from this doc subpoenaed for court.  I can also bet you that the doc made a very blatant comment in the office notes of that visit pertaining to that 'situation'.  Would be beneficial to get copies of that, too.
Handle every stressful situation like a dog........if you can't play with it or eat it, pee on it and walk away.......

 

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