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FERPA and visiting school

Started by chuleta, Jun 09, 2005, 01:25:49 PM

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chuleta

Hi all, I am new here, have read a few pages in the site and found it helpful.  My husband has a very difficult relationship with his ex-wife who has custody of his son.  We recently got a call from the woman's current husband.  He told us that my husband's ex that has been allowing my 15-yr old stepson to stay home from school, (resulting in failing grades), stay out til the wee hours, and more unpleasant things!  Anyway, we decided to look into this and get his school records, just so we're not relying on heresay to know what's going on.  My husband doesn't usually talk to her because she's nasty, but her husband could just be stirring up trouble.  

So, anyway, the principal told us he'd check with his boss, and it would take a few days.  I then went over the principal's head and called the superindentent after waiting for a response for 4 days -- at least the person in the superintendent's office knew our rights and lit a fire under the principal's butt -- they've sent us the records and we should have them tonight or tomorrow.

Anyhoo, my question is this - if my husband wants to go to his kid's school and meet with the principal and guidance counselor, is it a violation of privacy issue if I go along?  My husband wants me there for support (so he doesn't lose his temper), but I was wondering if the principal could say I can't sit in.  I'm sure the stepfather has been to parent-teacher meetings, but the boy lives with him.  Do I have a right to be there, too, and discuss his performance?  We're in New York State.  Thanks in advance for any help/opinions on this!

ocean

Hi,
I work in NY and in my school you would be allowed to be apart of the meeting as long as your DH was there.  There is no legal law against it unless it is in your custody papers that step-parents can not be there(which we have seen before).

Mediator

I would suggest considiring having the school send the father status reports ona regular basis.  They probably would support sucha  notion considering the mother is not properly supporting the child's education.

Why hasn't the father been going to parent teacher conferences etc?  The father could and should be significantly more involved even though he does not have "custody".

By the way; are you refering to the mother being the custodial parent and that she has sole decision making authority or does the father have joint decision making authority when it comes to issues such as education?

chuleta

Hi, thanks for the response.  Just an FYI, my husband hasn't been a part of regular school meetings because we live a few hours away.  And we were not aware we could attend.  Thanks again.

Mediator

I would suggest contacting both the school and teachers to design a creative arrangment so that you are all kept up to date on all school issues.  Don't limit this to formal P/T conferences.  Consider email, phone, fax, web postings etc.  You could even supply the teacher with a webcam for the P/T conference if viewing face to face is important. Imporatnt documents could be shared just prior to the meetings or posted to the website for joint viewing.  Leverage technology.  This is where it can come in handy.  Just don't expect the school or teacher to take the lead, this is your husband's child and he must demonstrate interest enough and provide many of the resources to the overworked teachers.

Attending the conferences should have been addressed in the divorce decree.  Any good agreement includes enough detail that allows for effective involved parenting.  If the agreement does not specifically address this then I suggest that the agreement in its entirty be reviewed for its comprehensiveness.  New clients of mine just showed me an agreement that their attorneys drew up a couple of years ago that did not even address parenting time when one parent moves out of state.  Relevant agreements are possible and important to create. Agreements that do not cover important detail do not serve the child.

wysiwyg

As a side note I am going to throw my 2 cents in here, my DH's ex purposely left dad's name and number off the school records as parent/guardian and when we tried to get info and even pick up the child from school we were disallowed the info or to take the child (even though mom was called to verify that dad was who he said he was she still denied us to do that - but we went becasue she told us to pick the child up at school- another long story) anyway, you might make sure that dad is named as dad on the childs school records then do whatever is necessary to participate within your capacity given the living difference.

If dad is not named on the school records perhaps a petition to the court to find her in contempt will get that taken care of.  DH's ex got found in contempt for this and even the attorney for the school gave us records that he said BOTH parents are entitiled to.  

Mediator

Good point.  It would seem that multiple strategies are in order to secure access to the child's records and teachers.

1) assure that the divorce decree specifically provides permission to access simply by showing the decree and proof of identity.

2) Immediately after the decree contact the school and make sure they have the information they need to comply.

3) As a parent (two year old son) I do not understand why both parents would not already have been listed with the school prior to any divorce.  the only way I see a potential problem is if there is a change of school.

wysiwyg

Another thing we have run into - even though our Decree states that "Both parents have the right to access any and all information pertaining to the minor child from each other or any third party..."  the school claimed they are/were not a party to the court order therefore do not have to provide the info.  HOwever, if you go to the school and prove you are the cooperative, sane party, you get alot further with them and they end up turning to you instead of the crazed parent.  We have run into that with the medical personell as well, even the laws, teh decree, and HIPAA allowing for info they still want an exact signed form from the CP spelling out what exsactly the NCP can receive.  We still fight in mediation and litigation to get info as to why the child was at the doctor and what meds he is on etc etc etc.  FYI, scouts and private sporting clubs also refuse to give up info to NCP.

Mediator

Interesting.  I think the decree must state that the custodial parent gives consent to and requests the organization to provide information to the other parent.  In that way their wishes are already in writing and the school does not need to be a party to the decree.  The standard language I have seen and use myself fo rmy clients make it very clear that the decree is all they need.

If an organization for some reason refuses information under these conditions a letter from an attorney threatening a law suit should quickly shake things up enough.

wysiwyg

I always thought that the decree was sprcific enough, "Each parent shall be entitled to immediate access from the other, or from any third parties, to records and information pertaining to the minor child including, but not limited to, medical, dental, legal, health, school and educational records. "  Although medical personell and school employees state they are not a named party to the courts order, they do not have to comply.  The same goes for private organizations such as day care records, and sporting events.  Even with legal intervention we have been unsuccessful at obtaining the info, and it gets quite costly whenthey bring in their attorney's.

As far as the medical, not only do we have the decree, we have a HIPAA forms that BM signed stating that fahter (named) can have all access to information regarding medical and financial, by fax, email, or phone machine messages, etc AND a form done by the attorney's signed by mom that states that father shall have all access to all info, doctors refuse to turn the insurance info over to dad because they state that the forms asked for, need to be precisely spelled out or we can not get them, ie billing information for our share of medical costs.  

Mediator

Your clause does not specify that the parent gives permission and specifically requests the other parent access.  It is the difference between the court ordering and the parent specifically making the request to the third party.

wysiwyg

so are you saying that that clause from the decree does not hold any weight?  

Mediator

I am suggesting that a third party is not bound by a court order that they are not a part of,  they could choose to follow the order or not.

alternatively a document that is signed by the parents that specifically stipulates permission for ...  is herby given and no further document or action must be taken is stronger and serves as a direct request  from both parents to the school or hospital etc.  It is even better if it is notorized so the institution can not claim it may be fraudulent.

the school is not taking the position that they will not obide by the parents wishes they are saying that one parent had not demonstrated the wishes of the other parent sufficiently.  In fact if both parents truly agreed then all that woudl be needed is such a document to be sent to the school even after the fact.

The school has not interest in not obiding by both parents wishes.  If one parent changes their mind than they would need to go to court to modify the document.

I suggest the individual document be signed, dated and notorized and then submitted to the court for approval so that it can be then incorporated into the decree.  It would then be enforceable by the court.

A school would incur legal costs and embarrassment if they did not obide both a signed document from both parents as well as a divorce decree giving permission.


mykidsdad

From a dad that has and is still going thru the same thing. Let me give you some insight on what I have done, my pbfh ex would not put me on my sons papers for school, well I took  it upon my self to contact the school and add my self to the contacts and what ever else that asked for my info, granted i have joint managing custody, with her having domicile.. Any who I just had to take it upon myself to make sure that my name and info go onto the forms and to the school etc.. myself, and not rely on her to do it, plus I aslo found out the teachers e-mail addy, and conference times, I started by e-mailing the teacher, and introducing myself, and briefly explaining the situation to her, then followed up with her by calling her during her conference time and talking to her about the situation..
Hope this helps out some...

Mediator

that is wonderful!!!

You are the example of the involved dad.  Few schools would argue with your involvement.

Forthelittleones

Most states have laws that allow both parents equal access.  We have the same clause as you do and it works fine after they had thier lawyer review it!

You need to be very nice as you dont know what she told them about you.

This happened to my DH.

Check you state laws or tell me what state you are from.

worriedmom

I have a quick question, if I may ask? Me and my ex have joint custody but i didnt put him on the list to pick up but his name is listed in his papers, can he stillpick him up w/out my consent. I also put a note on the papers that he is not allowed to pick up my son UNLESS i tell them in advance in Person. No notes or phone calls. I wouldnt put it past him to b a flight risk with my son. Thanks

Mediator

>I have a quick question, if I may ask? Me and my ex have
>joint custody but i didnt put him on the list to pick up but
>his name is listed in his papers, can he stillpick him up
>w/out my consent. I also put a note on the papers that he is
>not allowed to pick up my son UNLESS i tell them in advance in
>Person. No notes or phone calls. I wouldnt put it past him to
>b a flight risk with my son. Thanks

I can not comment on the pure legal issue as to what the school would  or would not do.  If the divorce decree papers state that he is allowed to pick up the child  from school than he is allowed to do so regardless of what you told the school.  The school may not want to get involved and force him to go to court.  Does anything in the decree state you have the decision authority to change the his ability to pick up the child?  If not by what authority do you limit his access?

If you do not have the authority to do so you are placing yourself in legal jeopardy.  If he has the right but you would like to now restrict this you will need to go to court and make the request and prove your case.

worriedmom

Me and him were never married We just have parenting plan papers but it doesnt say anything about him being able to pick him up. It says (related to school)

1.Has to have complete access to school records and I have to give him notice of special events at school
2. I have to provide copies of report cards, progress reports, and other communication from school.
3. He goes to school where I reside


Mediator

>Me and him were never married We just have parenting plan
>papers but it doesnt say anything about him being able to pick
>him up. It says (related to school)
>
>1.Has to have complete access to school records and I have to
>give him notice of special events at school
>2. I have to provide copies of report cards, progress reports,
>and other communication from school.
>3. He goes to school where I reside
>
It doesn't matter one way or another if you were married.  What matters is what the court document sstipulate.  I will assume for now that the parenting plan papers you refer to have been reviewed by the court and signed off by the court.

If that is true your parenting plan should indicate when parenting time is and how the transfer of the child is to occur.  Your document should also cover who has major decision making authority (one or joint over any particular major topic) If it does not cover these topics it is sorely incomplete.

If it is this incomplete and you paid for an attorney or mediator to help both of you you did not have a competant professional working with you to develop the agreement.

What does your agreement say regarding parenting time and transfer of the child?

worriedmom

1. My papers were reviewed and signed off by court.
2. Parenting Time- My son resides and uses my address for mailing and educational purposes. His BD takes him friday at 6p and returns him Sunday at 6p every other weekend.
3. BD picks up from my residence and drops off.
4. Decision making- medical care (both unless emergency), Routine/Minor decisions- "each parent shall decide all routine and minor matters concerning the child's welfare occuring while in that parents' custody" , mostly the person he is reciding with makes the decisions, thats what I am getting from it

Mediator

>1. My papers were reviewed and signed off by court.
>2. Parenting Time- My son resides and uses my address for
>mailing and educational purposes. His BD takes him friday at
>6p and returns him Sunday at 6p every other weekend.
>3. BD picks up from my residence and drops off.
>4. Decision making- medical care (both unless emergency),
>Routine/Minor decisions- "each parent shall decide all routine
>and minor matters concerning the child's welfare occuring
>while in that parents' custody" , mostly the person he is
>reciding with makes the decisions, thats what I am getting
>from it
You state in #3 what the routine has been but I am not sure if you are stating that it is specifically stated as such in the court agreement.  Please clarify this point.

If it is written into the agreement and BD has unilaterally changed the routine without your agreement than the dispute needs to be worked out between both of you directly or through a means already delineated int eh agreement such as mediation or court.

As residential custodial parent you do not have any more authority than the BD in major decision making issues such as education, religion, sprots etc.  Everyday decisions for the child are made by the parent the child is with at the time.  These decisions would include what to eat, when to eat, bedtime, watching TV, attending parties, going to the doctor for routine visits, etc.

If the parenting time you refer to in item # 2 is the ONLY parenting time he has (specifically written in the court agreement) then he would not be allowed to pick him up from school.  He could always ask the court for a modification of parenting time.  If he has parenting time during the week that is written into the agreement and it does not state how the transfer is to occur than he could probably pick him up from school until a court decides differently.

Mediator

I reveiwed your first post on this subject and as an independant thrid party I question the ferousticy and legitimacy of your flight risk concern.  I say this knowing nothing about either of you and only relying on the limited post.  That being said how would picking the child up during the week increase his flight risk compared to having the child over the entire weekend?  It doesn't make sense.

Secondly, if there were a substantiated flight risk than why are you not addressing this in court through a modification of parenting time towards supervised parenting time.  If I thought an ex were going to take of hurt my child there would not be a wall high enough that I would not climb to protect my child.

worriedmom

My ex is very unpredictable. There has been more stuff that has been happening but all that is on a different post. I am worried about it but nothing can b done right now bc my husband and I are in the middle of an adoption case (my middle son). My husband is adopting him. We dont want to ruffle any feathers right now with the state bc our adoption could be affected (as I was told by my lawyer) When that is said and done then we are going to work on my oldest son. Trust me there is no wall high enough to keep me from protecting him. I was just wanting to know if he could take him from school without my consent and I do worry all weekend. At times I have driven by his house to make sure he is still there. I have a post in Visitation Issues "Innocent Victim" and Custody Issues "Question about custody order" if you want to check those out to get a better mental image of whats going on. I am currently reading a book called "Joint Custody with a Jerk" to see what I can do to get him to cooperate with me so that at least I am not the one fighting. Only he is. But it doesnt cover the extent that he goes. I tried mediation with him and the outcome of that is posted in Parenting Issues and Visitation Issues. It wasnt very good. The mediator was fishing him excuses like "well I bet you were at work, right?" and "well you do have another baby to tend to." Of course he agreed, she would do this when i brought up a point that he didnt have an excuse for. If he stayed quiet then she would speak for him. It was very frustrating. But anyway if you want to check those posts out, I wouldnt mind at all. Maybe you can shed some light on something in there that no one else has mentioned.

Also on #3 the court papers say that the respondent (my ex) has to pick my son up from my residence and drop him off at my residence unless I move from the Belton, Raymore area (cities where I live) He doesnt get him during the week at all unless it is a holiday week (e.g. Thanksgiving Break, Christmas Break, etc)

Mediator

thanks for the clarification.  Based on your posts your ex does not have the right to pick him up and I would have my attorney write a letter to the school clarifying this point providing the court agreement to back it up.  The school would then be exposed to serious legal repercussions if they allow him to pick up the child.  It would be like I picked him up.  I have no right to him nor does your ex.

I will try to view your other posts soon.  I will say there are many different types of mediators and one is not the equal of the other in style or competancy.  that being said we mediators lack any authority in th ematters we deal with.  I usually try to have specific consequences in the agreements that are tied to performance.  typically both parents have no problem making promises so I say OK then leets figure out an appropriate consequence if you fail to perform as promised.  In that way both parties know waht to expect and the court sees the history and the seriousness of the issue.  With an agreed upon consequence the court does not have to spend time determining how to rule if a breach of the agreement occurs.  All you would need to do is prove the breech.  I have enough expreince to generally know if a parent is trying to pull something, is not being truthful or is not a competant parent.  I while I do not take sides with the adults I certainly try to work out an agreement that benefits the children.