dontusekids.com

[MYSONSDAD]

http://www.dontusekids.com/html/untitled3.html

"Children learn what they live"

[FleetingMoment]

Why are you so riled up about a creation of a possible billboard from someone else's imagination? Does anyone who pays child support really believe their names will end up on a billboard? True deadbeats are criminals. Deadbeats deserve that type of publicity and humiliation, and no other message comes across as powerful as those from the mouths of babes.

The  submissions will be carefully reviewed and the winning billboard poster will be more in keeping with "Save the Children," as deadbeats do nothing but contribute to poverty, misery, crime, dependents of the government welfare systems, etc., etc., etc. Can you honestly deny that?

On a side note seeing a reference you've made to your ex-wife as the Devil herself.... you should be more careful in choosing what you call her. Remember who planted the seed and if such a belief holds true in your mind... consider that you are in fact, calling your own, the Devil's Spawn as genetically there would be no escape.

[kitten]

Because it is abusive on so many levels to ask a child to draw a picture of one of the most imortant people in their minds in such a negative light regardless of whether it is true or not.  Child support is an ADULT issue.  I suppose you are one of those who would abuse your child in such a way and not think twice?

[Kitty C.]

Hey FM......are you working for Mike Cox?????  You must be, if you can make the assertion that 'The submissions will be carefully reviewed and the winning billboard poster will be more in keeping with "Save the Children," as deadbeats do nothing but contribute to poverty, misery, crime, dependents of the government welfare systems, etc., etc., etc'  How do you know that if you DON'T work in his office????  

And can you be MORE specific on who is really a 'deadbeat' and who isn't?  Is a parent who's job has been downsized and they can't find a comparable paying one, when they can't afford to pay the same support?  And don't even bother to mention getting a modification, because it JUST DOESN'T HAPPEN.  They get further and further behind, barely able to keep clothes on their back and food in their stomach, but they STILL have to pay that exorbitant amount.  Many of the so-called 'deadbeats' are exactly in that situation.

The bottom line........the ONLY issue in this 'campaign, is that they are dragging kids into this foray when they should be doing everything possible to keep them OUT of it.  This is an ADULT issue not a child's.

Think about it.....what if you were an NCP and a month or so behind (by NO fault of your own, maybe a job lay-off) on your support.  How do you think your kids would feel if they were asked to make a poster about you not paying?  EVERY TIME you tell a child that their parent is bad in any way, shape, or form, they think that since they are a part of that parent, then they must be bad, too.  It's NOTHING but abuse, in the lowest form.............

The bottom line is that this a$$hole AG should be strung up by his toenails (and that's the NICEST thing I can think of) for trying to drag innocent children into his 'campaign.  This man has done a despicable act and I hope to God that they blow the top off of this in Michigan.  I feel SO sorry for those poor kids who have been asked to make some kind of picture about their parent not being able to pony up to Cox's standards.  There is monumental damage being done to those kids in Michigan and I pray to God that their faces haunt Cox for the rest of his life...........

Go crawl back under that rock you crawled out of.  You're nothing but a $hit disturber.  You know FULL WELL that this is an issue that will rile EVERYONE on this board.  You do this in the comfort of your computer, because it's just words.  Put your money where your fingers are and make your 'stand' in person somewhere.    If I wanted to be an A-hole, I could do the very same thing as you and post the very same kind of messages.  But I CARE about the kids being irreparably harmed by this, unlike you.

What a chicken $hit.........

[FleetingMoment]

http://paykids.com/ContestRules.asp

Not at all. I'm more of a kitten in nature, than most can imagine.

Review the contest rules. It starts with who is eligible. Junior and senior HS students.

These are not children with the inability to think. The contest is open to all children in that age group and high school, some of whom may actually have a deadbeat parent. The contest is not inviting only children who have deadbeat parents. It is inviting to all sides, thoughts and opinions regarding child support and deadbeats and encouraging NCP's to pay.

I think it would be very interesting to see and hear the views of the children in this age group, in this particular situation. Isn't this what it's all about? That the voice of our children be heard?

Kitten, if I wanted to abuse my children in such a way, I would have posted heartbreaking letters they have written to their deadbeat father for all the world to see. Letters that can never be mailed or forwarded because they don't know where he is, or why he doesn't care to pay for them. It's about as heartbreaking as your SO's own significant moveaway issues. But I'm not here to tug at your hearts.

A better alternative would be posting the "faces" of deadbeats all over on a national level. It would make hiding from their responsibilities to their children a lot less easier.

[StPaulieGirl]

Unreal.  I was so offended by that website, that I missed some points.

My ex husband could be classified as the devil, or at least his minion.  Look, I'm a female custiodial parent, but I hate how decent parents...and their kids... get the shaft on custody and child support.  I hate the government for sticking their noses in where it doesn't belong.

If I lived in that state, I'd be trying to drum up support for a recall.

Save the children my ass.....

[FleetingMoment]

>And can you be MORE specific on who is really a 'deadbeat' and
>who isn't?  Is a parent who's job has been downsized and they
>can't find a comparable paying one, when they can't afford to
>pay the same support?  And don't even bother to mention
>getting a modification, because it JUST DOESN'T HAPPEN.  They
>get further and further behind, barely able to keep clothes on
>their back and food in their stomach, but they STILL have to
>pay that exorbitant amount.  Many of the so-called 'deadbeats'
>are exactly in that situation.

Any parent who doesn't "bother" to get a modification, is an automatic deadbeat. No one is going to feel sympathetic towards an NCP who decides to throw to run away from their responsibilties. It is their choice not to pursue a downward modification. It is their choice not to continue to remit what they can and simply remain in arrears status. An NCP in arrears is not a deadbeat, nor are they defined as such. If a deadbeat is in that situation... it is because they allowed themselves to be put there.

You appear to enjoy rambling on alot. Next time, save it. Look up the definition of deadbeat before you lump all NCP's into a deadbeat category. It's a perfectly sensible legitimate contest, right along the lines of Save the Children, Don't Do Drugs, Recycle.  These are Juniors and Seniors in High School... from all walks of life... all family situations.

Calm down. It's not becoming to you.

[MYSONSDAD]

Again you miss the point. Many here are also subscribers to other websites. When we find something of interest, we share. So unlike yourself.

I am not 'riled' about anything. I was passing along something most of us here are interested in. If you had been KEEPING UP, you would know this was a nationwide campaign for the total bias against fathers. And we won.

Sharing and standing together with a common goal is what most of us are here for. And this does include sharing information that we can pass along.

I find it interesting that you have followed my posts. Somewhere I must have hit a nerve.

My question to you, WHAT HAVE YOU CONTRIBUTED?


"Children learn what they live"

[Kitty C.]

'Isn't this what it's all about? That the voice of our children be heard?'  

Nope, it isn't, and the quicker you realize that, the better off you will be.  I don't give a damn if the child is 2, 22 or 42, they should NOT be asked by the government and this jerk to speak bad in ANY way about their parents.

Let me give you another example, as it appears that you're too dense to see the implications.  Here's a hypothetical for you:  it's discovered that the practices of some small farmers, of whom my own father would be a part of, have been considered to do irrreparable harm to the environment.  And they come to me, a 43 y.o., to make a statement denouncing what my father and others like him have done.  Personally I'd tell them to take a flying leap, after someone holds me back from punching their lights out.  My father did the best he could with what he knew and had.  And like Maya Angelo has said, when he knew better, he did better.

But for me to lambast him would be to say that I am just as bad.  I am a part of him.  For someone to ask me to say that my father is to blame and at fault.......right, wrong, or indifferent...........is an abomination to our relationship.  I don't give a damn if what he did was wrong, but it would cut my heart in two to be asked to publicly denounce him.....not when there are/were ways to alleviate the situation before it ever got that bad (as is the case here).  I'd turn around to those bureaucrats and tell THEM that THEY are the ones who screwed up, THEY are the ones who failed everyone........because they KNEW, chose to do nothing about it, then coped out by placing the blame on those who had absolutely NO control over the situation.  THEY are the ones to be publicly denounced...........

FM, get a clue, get a life...or get out of here............the kids of this world don't need your biased BS...........  

[kitten]

How do your children know their Dad doesn't pay?  You told them?  I am very sorry that your children don't see their Dad.  That is hard enough for them without you telling them he doesn't pay you money either.  
Junior High and High School are STILL children.  Still too young to really understand the whole situation, still influenced by CP.  

If my SO loses his kids to a vindictive ex, he will still have to pay.  She intends to live off the CS, as she is doing now.  He will see them 3 times a year.  She tells them and will continue to tell them that he did not want them and that he does not want to pay for them either.  He paid for her college education because SHE wanted to be a teacher.  She has very good income potential, but refuses to go to work because the CS will be reduced.  The children cannot fully comprehend the truth until they have gotten both sides of the story and are at a point in their young adulthood to WANT to hear both sides.  

BTW...he had been overpaying her for several months.  Do you think the court will make her pay him back?  Do you think she will be labeled for not doing so?  Do you think if he gets custody and she moves away, she will have to pay CS?  Will she be labeled a "Deadbeat Mom"?

[kitten]

Thank you for sharing so much, MSD. :)

[MYSONSDAD]

There are many here who have been here much longer then yourself. They are very well respected for their advice and suggestions.

Kitty C has helped hundreds here. St. Paulie girl and Kitten are two more, who are always here and first to help. I could name hundreds more...

You on the other hand, float in and out with nothing to say and blow alot of hot air.

I seriously doubt if anyone here will listen to your rants, you have earned no respect and never will.

"Children learn what they live"

[Kitty C.]

She's calling the kettle black again............

I don't give a damne if they are juniors, seniors, or senior citizens, they SHOULD NOT BE ASKED TO PUBLICLY VILIFY THEIR PARENTS.   And I knew you'd bring up that tired stand-by, modification.  It's a JOKE.  Many don't bother to try for it, BECAUSE THEY PRACTICALLY NEVER ALLOW IT.  And tell me this.  How can a parent, who's barely living hand-to-maouth as it is, be able to afford filing for a modification anyway?  Don't tell them they can do it on their own.  Those are the ones who end up being the biggest losers, because they know so little about the court system and get eaten alive by it.  

'An NCP in arrears is not a deadbeat, nor are they defined as such.' Show me PROOF of this and I just MIGHT believe you.  The courts and CS systems don't give a damn how a parent gets behind.....all they know is that they're behind.  And unless you know of EVERY parent and their financial situations as to why they can't pay what's been ordered, it's easy to assume, as the goverment has done, that they are all deadbeats.  They go to the media, like in this situation, and paint them ALL with the same brush.  They convince the general public, who have NO inkling of how the family court system operates, that all the parents who are behind are deadbeats.  A parent can say that they've lost their job, but the govt. has done such a great job spreading the tar that no one believes them anymore.  

Go spread your BS to someone who cares.  Your lack of intelligence is showing too much here...............

[MYSONSDAD]

I think all of us here share what we can. You are a good example of a true Sparcie!

"Children learn what they live"

[kitten]

Awwww.....You just brought a tear to my eye!

[Brent]

>Why are you so riled up about a creation of a possible
>billboard from someone else's imagination?

You are so clueless as to be beyond belief.



> Does anyone who pays child support really
> believe their names will end up on a billboard?

That's NOT the point, but you're too dense to understand that.


>True deadbeats are criminals. Deadbeats deserve
>that type of publicity and humiliation, and no other message
>comes across as powerful as those from the mouths of babes.

Oh please, sht the *** up with that moralistic bullshit. Turning children against their parents in the name of money is wrong NO MATTER WHAT.



> Remember who planted the seed and
>if such a belief holds true in your mind...

So that's "wrong" but asking kids to say why they hate their fathers for not paying child support is right? Geeez, what a world you must live in. You make me sick.

So tough crap for you, you little hater- the billboard campaign is history, no matter how much you'd like to see fathers made out to be villains.

[Brent]

>Thank you for sharing so much, MSD. :)

And that goes double for me- Thank You!

[speciallady]

you would also advocate for a similar billboard contest regarding CP's who continually deny visitation/court orders? Parents who practice this are also criminals and deserve the same publicity and humiliation, yes?

Please share.....

[Peanutsdad]

Ok Fleeting,,, my ex is truly a deadbeat,, why dont the billboards show MOM in jail?

[Kitty C.]

;-)

[StPaulieGirl]

You are so right!  I totally agree with your statement.

[FleetingMoment]

>How do your children know their Dad doesn't pay?  You told
>them?  I am very sorry that your children don't see their Dad.
> That is hard enough for them without you telling them he
>doesn't pay you money either.  

Not at all. I have very bright children. They are children who have friends of divorced parents. Friends who talk. Questions come that need to be answered. What does one say to a child who comes to them and asks them, "Does mommy or daddy give you money for me?" Suffice to say, the only answer mine ever received is No. Would you prefer that I lie to them or go into extreme details? It's not going to happen. I would never hurt my own children that way. As for their letters to him. What would you suggest? Throw them away, pretend they're delivered and their father refuses to acknowledge them? They go and continue to go into "Daddy's Box," until the time comes when there's suddenly a valid address to mail them.

>Junior High and High School are STILL children.  Still too
>young to really understand the whole situation, still
>influenced by CP.  

OR influenced by the NCP :) Works both ways. There's quite a bit a difference in learning comprehension and understanding between high schoolers and grade schoolers. They're not on honor rolls for being ignorant. They don't have mock trials, business and economic classes for lack of understanding. Adults continuously undermine the minds of teens and young adults (18) confusing it with poor judgements they can and do make at times.
>
>If my SO loses his kids to a vindictive ex, he will still have
>to pay.  She intends to live off the CS, as she is doing now.
>He will see them 3 times a year.  She tells them and will
>continue to tell them that he did not want them and that he
>does not want to pay for them either.  He paid for her college
>education because SHE wanted to be a teacher.  She has very
>good income potential, but refuses to go to work because the
>CS will be reduced.  The children cannot fully comprehend the
>truth until they have gotten both sides of the story and are
>at a point in their young adulthood to WANT to hear both
>sides.  

What he has for an ex is exactly what you described. Vindictive. But he's not a deadbeat. Definitely give them both sides of the story and hope for the day when they'll be old enough to use their own voice in a court to tell the judge they want to live with their father.

>BTW...he had been overpaying her for several months.  Do you
>think the court will make her pay him back?  Do you think she
>will be labeled for not doing so?  Do you think if he gets
>custody and she moves away, she will have to pay CS?  Will she
>be labeled a "Deadbeat Mom"?

I don't know it came to him overpaying her, but depending on the amount he could and should challenge it. Does he pay through the CSU or directly? He could prepare a statement showing the overpayment amount and ask for some of his payments to be reduced even slightly until the difference is resolved. He could also try taking her to small claims court. Do I think if he gets custody, she will have to pay CS? It's not what I think... it's the laws. Of course she will.  No one will feel any more or less sympathy towards her as they would a man. If she doesn't pay, will she be labeled a Deadbeat Mom?  Of course she will. Have you seen any of the deadbeat sites online? Deadbeat Dads "and" Moms.

[FleetingMoment]

Don't know PD. But if between the two of us we can find a way to get these uncaring deadbeat faces on a billboard, I'll recommend we put both of our deadbeats up side by side. Deadbeat Mom and Deadbeat Dad. Sounds good to me!

[FleetingMoment]

Absolutely. One word in a nutshell.

[FleetingMoment]

You're aim is lousy. Somehow the bricks keep missing. Try cement blocks... drown the voice of the other side. I have a feeling you'll do a great job of it.

You can't seem to get through a post insulting. It's a shame. So are you a bitter stepmom? What's your story that you hate me so much?

Never mind. I'll just ignore your "great advice!"

[MYSONSDAD]

The only one here who is a brick short of a full load, is YOU...

[Kitty C.]

Just taking lessons from you, probably.  Because of ALL the posts I've ever seen from you, only ONE was NOT denegrating, meant to disrupt, or displayed your own style of name-calling.  I actually agree with you on that ONE, too.  No, I did not respond as such.  But others have

You mention to another poster that you actually flat out told your own children, when they asked, that their father doesn't pay support for them.  Coming from you, I can believe that you would make such a monumetal and fatal mistake.  I don't give a damn if your children started college at age 12, they are CHILDREN.  The ONLY answer you should have given them was 'This is an adult matter and you don't need to be concerned about it.  You WILL be taken care of, no matter what.'

Sure, children are smart.  And if they all are as smart as yours, why don't we lower the age for driver's licenses or drinking or voting for them?  We DON'T because tho they may be intelligent, they do NOT have the capacity to make those kinds of decisions.  We have the laws we do because of their MATURITY, NOT their intelligence.  They are impulsive.  I've picked up enough bodies of kids off of roads, including one 2 days ago, to know that giving them the benefit of the doubt on their intelligence but not considering their mental maturity is a sure way of guaranteeing that you will be burying them.

It's ATTITUDE, FM.  Your holier-than-thou attitude that comes thru blatantly in every post where you KNOW everyone is wrong and you are the only one who's right.  I don't give a damn what you think of me or any name you can call me.  But if you truly want to spread your diatribe somewhere where others would really listen to you, take it elsewhere.  

And if you don't like my 'advice', then don't respond!  And that goes for everyone else here, too!

[MYSONSDAD]

You are one of the most respected posters here.

"Children learn what they live"

[MYSONSDAD]

This is one sick cookie. She is damaging the integrity of this board. I can only imagine what new comers are thinking when they read her garbage.

Reminds me of a poster we had here six months ago, you know who I mean...GB

Like a snake in the grass, ready to spew her venom.

"Children learn what they live"

[speciallady]

>Absolutely. One word in a nutshell.


You're saying you'd advocate/support a similar contest regarding CP's denying visitation via court orders??

See, that's the difference here between yourself and others here (myself being a long time member for over 5 years now-had to change my posting name due to my husbands ex stalking me)---

I don't, nor will ever support something that could NOT be in the best interest of a child/ren! Promoting or even thinking that public humiliation of a child's parent in any way, shape or form is in their best interest is just beyond normal thinking.....

[FleetingMoment]

Excuse me?  What campaign are you blabbing about now? The billboard one is a national campaign and you won how?

I've observed/read Glenn Sacks denouncement of the billboard campaign. How adeptly he changed the wording of the contest in the website from "deadbeat parents" to DEADBEAT DADS.  From "parents" assisting their children with the submissions to 'CUSTODIAL MOTHERS.

That's called word play twist.

Glenn Sacks does nothing but manipulate everything he can get his hands on into a dramatic father's episode. He turns ALL fathers into victims and deadbeats. Poor Glenn, and pity the fools that fall for his nonsense.

It matters not to me who you considered respect posters. As Rodney Dangerfield once said, "I don't get no respect." Who's asking for your respect? As far as which posts I choose to respond it's not who posts them, but the subject matter.

Who is your son's dad anyway? Just curious?

[FleetingMoment]

The way some people go at it here, shows their children are no more protected from humiliation within their own homes then they would be from public humiliation. It's pathetic how many want to get away with such behavior around and to their children in their own private domains, but will scream that their privacy has been invaded when their actions are threatened to be made public. IMO there's a lot more important things to protect a child from, than a fed or state attempt to collect child support from a deadbeat.

All parents who act/react in ways that are not in the best interest of children should endure the same consequences.

[Kitty C.]

'All parents who act/react in ways that are not in the best interest of children should endure the same consequences.'

I agree with you!  And everyone on this site does, too.  Problem is, our current court system doesn't quite see it that way.  Only when that is changed will ALL parents be treated equally, either positively or negatively.

The people here 'go at it' because this is probably one of the damn few places where they can voice their problems and frustrations with the system and be UNDERSTOOD.  We talk about hating the exes and wanting the children to see what their poor excuses for parents REALLY are like.  I'd give anything to be able to take my SS aside and give him an earful.  And my DS's SM has had and still has plenty of opportunity.......and reason (from MANY years ago).......to do the same.  But we DON'T, because we know they SHOULD NEVER BE INVOLVED OR PUT IN THE MIDDLE.  If I have a problem with PBFH, I will take it up with HER, and SS will NEVER hear about it, at least from me.  DS's SM has said her piece to me, but then welcomed him into her home and heart and has NEVER spoken badly of me to him....EVER.  

When a parent speaks badly, in any way, shape, or form, of the other parent to the child, all they are really saying is that part of the child is bad, too.  THAT is all the child hears.    When you told your children that their father did not financially support them, did you magically grow intuitive and was able to literally read their minds as to how they felt about it?  Do you honestly think they'd tell you even if you asked?

The writing is on the wall, not only with your children, but with my SS as well.  For all that his mother has told him and exposed him to, when she SHOULD have been the adult and kept her damn mouth shut, I can guarantee you that the day he graduates, he won't even let the door hit him on the way out as he tells her to kiss his a$$.......if he hadn't left already.  Her attitude and mouth has already caused him to have no respect for her.  He's told us as much (of his own free will).

I truly feel sorry for him....and your kids as well.  They are innocents in all this.  They truly want to love both their parents, because they are part of each of them.  To denegrate one, whether publicly or privately, and in ANY form (including yours) is an abomonation to their innocense.

[StPaulieGirl]

I'm guilty of some of that behavior.  This is why I come here.   People will straighten me out.  I blocked my husband's email address after my son commented on me screaming at the computer screen, several years ago.  "Email from dad"?  As parents and adults, we must keep our dignity.  We also have to keep our children's best interests in the forefront.

I never come outside when my ex picks up the kids.  They attribute that to supposed guilt, and perhaps fear.   I don't want to end up punching "Miss Mandatory Reporter's" lights out.  I'm fed up, therefore I get urges to do bad things.  No contact is my rule.

My kids have 100% access to their father.  Last week, my youngest left a message on her father's cell phone regarding the upcoming weekend.  He didn't return her call, so she called him Saturday only to find out that he was out of state, attending his wife's cousin's wedding.  Why didn't he return her call?  Why did everyone turn off the phones the day he was supposed to pick her up for the entire summer?  This was not a court ordered visitation, but the little one wanted it.  She was packed and ready to go, but daddy never showed up.

This cretin then instructs his wife to file false neglect charges against me the day after the little one's 10th birthday!  This is why I won't come outside when he bothers showing up.  My little one has steel rods in her leg, but has been practicing scooting around on her bottom to be able to access the stairs in her father's house.  

I hate that asshole.

[kitten]

Nuff said! ;)

[MYSONSDAD]

Who's babbling? Have I offended you? TOUGH

Definition of RESPECT:

1. to feel or show honor or esteem for; 2. to show consideration for; regard; 3. expression of regard; 4. a particular detail; 5. reference, relation

per Websters dictionary...

P.S. RESPECT IS EARNED

And as far as my son, he is mine, no doubts about it, EVER, IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM

you are barking up the wrong tree

"Children learn what they live"