Don't know what to do...

[sweetnsad]

I'm posting here because it's the busiest board so far....My five year old's father hasn't paid me CS since May of this year...He is in arrears of $1200.00...He tried to tell me he was unemployed...anyway, he got a new job that pays pretty good money.  And yet, he still won't pay.  My SO pays out $848.00 a month for his kids and I'm not getting anything to help out with my daughter...So actually we are supporting five kids on not alot of money.
My question is this:  Can I keep her from going with him if he isn't paying any support?  I worry when she's with him anyway...he's a bit neglectful...and I have full custody of her...
I'm not trying to keep her from him, I've always encouraged their relationship, but I feel like he's taking advantage of the situation and my good nature about not paying, but enough is enough...If he has the money (he's single and has no other children), would keeping her from him teach him a lesson?  
I'm not trying to be a witch here, but I need to do something and Maintenance Enforcement is a joke....

[Indigo Mom]

You can't take the child away from her father because he's not paying child support.

If you do that, what will you tell her when she's expecting him?  "Oh honey, daddy didn't pay so he can't see you?"  How do ya think that will make her feel?  While I agree both parents should support their children, I don't think kids are paychecks.  

I think your little girl is lucky to have both parents in her life...and even luckier if you change your mind about taking her away from her daddy.

[sweetnsad]

I have NEVER denied my child her father, ever...they have a fantastic relationship and that's because I've encouraged it every step of the way...I'm just stumped for ways for him to start paying...I never thought of my child as a paycheck..He only has to pay $77.00 bi-weekly, so it's not like it's something to live off.  He is single, has no other kids, doesn't have a car and has no girlfriend...There isn't any reason for him not to help out..

[FatherTime]

But those are fightin words.

I'm not going to say anything more.

[Indigo Mom]

I didn't say you said she was a paycheck.  I just use that term to wake people up when it comes to child support.  While it's necessary that both parents take responsibility, the person being paid support should NEVER count on it in their budget.  Just like working for a living.  You can't "assume" you're going to bring home X amount of dollars a month, cause what if ya get sick?  I know, making no sense to others...but I make sense to me and that's what counts, eh?  lol

-----I'm just stumped for ways for him to start paying-----

Ya can't make another person do what they don't want to do.  I know it bites, but get used to it.  My daughter got 50 bucks in July of '99.  Not a dime since.  We go through tough times.  REALLY tough times, but we make it.  And guess what?  We're better people because of it.  

Have you asked him about his new job?  Have you told him that since he's working, it'd be nice if he could help out with the finances for the child?  Or are you like me...would rather piss and moan without talking to the other party?     ;)

-----He is single, has no other kids, doesn't have a car and has no girlfriend...There isn't any reason for him not to help out..-----

Dudette.  Listen to this.  My daughters father paid a 50 dollar bill 4 1/2 years ago.  His child support is 137 per month.  He has no girlfriend, no other children, no bills (mommy pays everything) he has ZERO responsibility, a rich as all get out parent...yet the lil miss doesn't get help from him.  He gets everything handed to him on a silver platter, he was even given a kick ass luxury sedan by his folks.  They support him 100%, yet he doesn't say "hey ma...how about sending lil miss that 137 a month I owe".  Shall we talk about being upset?  His mommy could write lil miss a check for 100k right now and it wouldn't phase her wallet.  

I know why you're angry, I'm angry too.  I just choose to faggedabout it and be done with the stress.  Live your life, be as happy as you can and screw the rest.

Just don't make them miss time together cause you're mad.  

[sweetnsad]

Indigo, You are right....I would never let them miss time together because I'm peeved...what would that teach her?  And it wouldn't hurt him any...so it isn't worth it...

I have asked nicely, we've talked about it, and we usually get along great for her sake...He just takes advantage of it in numerous ways that I won't get into, but involves saving HIM a few bucks..but no more...I'll never deny him his daughter, but I won't help him either...he's a big boy and needs to take responsibility for his own actions...He can't hold a job for very long, is always in debt owing money, etc...just can't get it together for a man with no other responsibilities...

I guess what you say is true, just bite the bullet and shut up...no sense crying over it...it's not a phenomenal amount of money ($77.00 bi weekly)..not worth it...We are happy here and that's all that matters....I

[Indigo Mom]

There ya go.  Happiness is what matters, not what other people do or don't do.

Just remember, at the end of the day, you have to be able to look in the mirror and be happy with the decisions you've made.  

[StPaulieGirl]

Have you tried the County Child Support agency?  If you have a court order, and the father won't comply, they will garnish his check.  Granted it isn't a lot of money, but it's the principle of the whole thing.

I wouldn't block his visitation with your daughter.  She shouldn't be knowing about the non support.  If he's an asshole, she'll figure it out on her own.

[StPaulieGirl]

Why?  Why would you have a problem with her post?  Granted, denying visitation is extreme and not a solution; but can't this guy kick in for school clothes, or something?

[msme]

I'm pretty sure a majority of the parents on here don't receive the cs they were awarded. Most of those that do, only get it because they fought tooth & nail for a very long time to get it.
My son was awarded custody of his 3 beautiful children, nearly 2 years ago. So far he has received $50 about 9 months ago. Now she is over the magic number for Texas, $5,000. The AG's office is handling it now & she will either pay or go to jail.
Sign up for payment through the cse office. That way, they will keep track of it & eventually, you should get something.
Good luck & God bless.

[1angrystepmom]

I suppose I am an odd woman type, LOL.  My ex has had some problems in the last 2 years.  He recently (witin the last 4 mos) started paying his court ordered support.  we have been divorced since 1997.  

My ex has in the past done quite a few nasty things to me, however, I have always kept the KIDS best interest in the back of my mind.  The KIDS need BOTH their parents. Whether he is paying or NOT!!  I have since, waived all $37,580 of arrears owed.  I felt that the money may in time hinder his relationship with the children.  The CHILDREN  are the most important!!  

You may be thinking I can afford it or something, maybe my DH makes a LOT of money?? NOPE, DH is disabled and after HIS CS obligation, he brings in a whopping $617 in SSDI benefits per month.  I work nearly 60 hours per week, as an Insurance Agent.  *I DON'T MAKE MUCH MONEY!!

Sometimes things like integrity are more important.  I REFUSE to be a PASer like my mother was.  I REFUSE to allow my children to grow up like I did, NOT knowing their father.

I want my children to always know WHO they are, where they came from, and that there are things more important than money.

Sorry if anyone finds my response offensive, this is TRULY how I feel, I want to raise my children KNOWING what is MORALLY RIGHT!!

Amber

[FatherTime]

Some people just don't get it.

[MKx2]

You're right FT - some folks just don't get it ... money and parenting time do not equate and should NEVER be used in the same sentence.  

It can be hard to bring your children up with it, but it should never prevent a child from having access to one or other of the parents.

Amber - girlfriend, ya done good!

[sweetnsad]

If you'll read my original posts, I have NEVER kept my child from her father, whether he was paying or not...that's why I didn't know what to do...He just acts so smug, because he knows I won't keep her from him no matter what, so he doesn't pay, knowing I won't do anything about it....That's where my problem lies...

I live in Canada and deal with Maintenance Enforcement...they are a joke...My only other option is to go back to court and fight it out there..

Granted, $77.00 every two weeks is a p**s in the pot, but it WOULD help somewhat...seeing as $848.00 goes out of my household a month for child support for SO's kids...

I GET it...there isn't any problems with that...I'm not one of those angry, bitter first wives...I want what's best for MY child...and that's both her parents, but I don't think being taken advantage off for my good nature is fair either...

[MKx2]

Hey sweet ... sorry but I wasn't finger pointing!  Just commenting "in general" on the post.

I HAVE read your original post ... no you haven't kept your ex from visitation, however the seed to do so was there as you plainly said.
I think that's shere all of this has come from.  No one is accusing you of having dne this, but you did ask if it was something that might get your ex off his duff and do the right thing.

Yes, you've let him get away with it, and that was the first mistake.  You've laid the groundwork for it to be a battle at this point, since he ISN'T doing the right thing.  I just hope that the two of you can quietly discuss this without your child being aware of it in any way - the risk of a detrimental influence at this point is definitely a risk.

The ONLY thing you've done wrong is to try and be a nice person to someone who doesn't want to play fair in the sandbox.

[sweetnsad]

My child is in no way aware of any of this...I know you weren't attacking me, I just was making the point that I am not one of those Biomom's who "punish" Dad by making him suffer...

I know there are other ways, other than threatening to keep her from him...that's why I came on here looking for alternatives..

[nerd]

I have been reading a lot of post on this site and have posted a few myself.  I have received a lot of help.  and I thank everyone for their advice.  now that I am older and wiser(I hope) I would like to give some since I have been on one side and am now seeing the other side through my children.

I raised my children on my own.  I was granted $20 dollars a week in child support for two children, because that was the state minumum at the time.  My children's father refused to pay even that and did not express much interest in helping to raise his children in any other way either.  I made the decision to do what I had to do in order to raise and provide for the children on my own, even if that meant not concentrating on helping their father maintain a relationship with his children.  I felt in my heart that that was his job, not mine.  Although I never denied him access, I never went out of my way to encourage it either, again, I felt that that was his responsibility.  

I went about my business of providing for our children as if it was 100% on me because it was.  I never demanded, tried to convince, ask for, anything from this man, because I knew it probablly would not happen.  When he asked and if the children wanted to go visit him, they went.  But here is what I did wait for:


I waited for their father to grow up and finally realize that he had to start making a life for himself and his last wife.  I waited until he became settled and job worthy, and decided that he wanted more out of life than a constant party.  I waited until he was financually stable.  

and while I waited, I continued to go about my task of providing for my children and raising them the best I could, the child support, even at 20 dollars a week, kept rising in arrears.  when my youngest child turned 15 years old and after I had provided 100% for them for 18 years, their father was stable, had purchase property, started a business, and built a grand house.  and had  settled in to enjoy all the things his children never was privilegded  to enjoyed.  a home of their own, a car that ran, good clothes, a good christmas, birthday parties, etc.

when I knew there was no chance of him picking up and running, because he now had another family, I quietly filed my child support and put a lien on his property for 18 years of back child support.  He would never be able to sell his property or liquidate his business until his cs was satisfied.  I petioned the court for current cs on the child still living at home and was able to receive it and help make her last remaining years in high school a bit better.  

Their father paid his child support and $200 a month toward the 18 years of arrears and never missed a month for eight years until it was completely paid.  Now that it has been settled for many many years, he is back to completly ignoring his children, and now his grandchildren.  although he brags to his children about his son by his current wife going to collage, and paying the rent on the house for his son and his college room mates.   which hurts his daughters deeply.

It is good advice to never count on CS.  But I do not think any of us, who are providing 100% of the support and 90% of the emotional care be it father or mother, should take the responsibilty of making sure the children have a relationship with the other parent.  I think it is the other parent who must take that responsibilty, the CP is often too caught up in just trying to put food on the table for the children.  If the NCP wants a relationship and they are not willing to help make the childrens psysical needs are taken care of, let them do ALL the work for their part in the childrens emotional needs of them.  I do think it is good for the children to add yet another burden on the CP, the burden of even remotely taking responsibility for the NCP relationship other than not interferring with access should they ever want to exercise it.  but only if that access does not interfer with the primary goal of the CP to support, provide, and maintain, for the children.  I do not think that the demands of a NCP should in any way interfer with the CP's abiltity to take care of the household business.  Their are a lot of exceptions and each case should be looked at independently, but as for me... what I had to do to keep a roof over my childrens head and food in their bellies came first and formost regardless of the need to maintain a relationship with absent parent, I simply chose to put the responsibilty on where it truly lay, and that my friends is what should be done!

I realize that not every father or mother grows up and decides to use the money that should have gone into raising their children, for purchasing a house or land or business, but if they do, place a lein on it. and see how quickly the children are remembered then.

[sweetnsad]

I REALLY appreciate your post Nerd, and I want to thank you for opening my eyes...
You are right, why should I be taking the responsibility of making sure my daughter has a relationship with her father?  He's a big boy and quite able to do that himself...I have NEVER denied access and always answer the phone when he calls, whether she's home or not...I don't stand in the way...but yes, I think I will back off from trying to make him see her or take responsibility financial-wise.  If he wants to see her, fine...but I'm not encouraging it anymore...I have enough on my plate right now.

Even when we were together, he took NO responsibility...If he needed a babysitter while I was working, he wanted me to find one....He quit his job and decided to start up a "bogus" home business just so he could stay home and collect unemployment...He did that for two years...I worked TWO jobs to pay the bills and feed my child.  He is a basketball official and if I was working and he had to referee, he was too lazy to find a sitter and felt this was more important for him to do than for me to work...I called in sick alot because of him...He's a VERY, VERY selfish man.

He can't hold a job, has no home, is behind on his rent, has no car and basically no life...He is almost 37 years old and has nothing...

I have looked after my daughter since birth..I've done everything...and I will continue to do so with or without his help...I don't care if I never see another dime from him...someday, my daughter will figure it all out on her own...and she will know what I did for her.  

[tryn2begooddad]

Sorry I have been away for a bit (had to put in some extra hours at the second job) but I am just blown away that since May he has only incurred 1200 in arrears..That is like one month for me. I agree that dads need to step up to the plate and do the right thing by their kids and take care of them but denying visitation for lack of support would create I can imagine this argument (since this would make the kids just a paycheck) why should I pay since she won't let me see the kids...I know the system is frustrating and what not but just remember to always put the kids first no matter what...

[Indigo Mom]

1200 a month?  Cripes, I could live pretty ok off that!  (not child support, but 1200 a month)

My daughters father had an original order of 52 bucks a month, then it went up to 137.  It's supposed to be over 400 a month, because Colorado uses both parents income and overnights.  But, who gives a rip.  I know I couldn't spend 400 a month on one child.  Hell, for that, I could buy her gold plated undies!  I've never increased, because there's no point...so, it's still on 137.  

I can not believe you have to fork over THAT much moolah a month!  I just calculated your child support for my case.  Heck, he's only just under 5k in arrears (I wiped over 3k a few years back) and if he owed what you pay...he'd owe 75 fricken grand.  Now, I know kids deserve to be supported but no way no how has it cost 75 grand to raise lil miss these past 5 years.  Crap...just realized.  It wouldn't be 75k, it'd be 150k because both parents are supposed to "match" what's paid for the child, right?  Screw the gold plated undies, she'd have gold on her walls!!!!

I think 137 is about appropriate for a small child.  

[tryn2begooddad]

Mine is for two kids so it averages out to 600 a month per kid which is roughly 150 a week per kid.  The great state of Connecticut uses the combined income. My "beef" with the system is that I have the kids the entire month of July and still have to pay but hey it gets better right it is after all only money.  It averages out to about 48% of my net pay a month (hence the second job) but it is OK because it isnt about the money it is about keeping the kids in as healthy an environment as I can..I never miss child support because it comes directly out of my check by the state...the ex when we first got divorced would call me on pay day and ask where the support was I referred her to the state since they had to process it..once it comes out of my paycheck my responsibility has ended for the child support I have done my part.  I think that the disparity between the states as far as CS guidelines go is what causes some headaches for the NCP(although I know in CT only about 30% of NCP moms pay support, go figure) as my buddies back in Illinois pay considerably less than myself for the same amount of kids. But it is all good as long as the kids are taken care of and as happy as they can be :)

[Indigo Mom]

-----My "beef" with the system is that I have the kids the entire month of July and still have to pay but hey it gets better right it is after all only money. -----

Before my friend moved to Utah, he paid almost 400 a month for his 2 kids.  He didn't understand why he still paid 400 a month to the ol biddy while he had the kids for 2 months in the summer.  His lawyer explained that it's an "entire year" thing.  That while the calculations were happening, those 2 months were taken into consideration.  IOW...utter bullshit.

I have a tripindicular idea for ya...pursuade the ex to move here to Colorado with you.  While here, file for a modification, cause DAMN....lil miss is owed only 137 a month, so you should get a huge break.  Now, since you're sooo used to paying out 1200 a month, just give the difference to me.  Why?  Well DUH...I want an H2 for Christmas and without all that extra moolah from you, I will NEVER have one.  And in case you'd like to buy me one outright, I'd like solid black with illegal tint in the window (you know, the REALLY dark stuff).  I'd like it all cherried out and a superkill stereo, so when I turn it on it sounds like Tom Petty is IN my car singing "American Girl".  I'd also like big wheels.  Huge wheels.  

Now, wouldn't it make you happy knowing that you are the reason I'm drivin' around in this bad boy?????

hmmmm...mefinks i got a bit carried away..LOL

[tryn2begooddad]

LMAO...an H2 huh I'll get right to work on that for ya ;)...thanks for the laugh factor...I know that the system works in evil evil ways which is why I stay upbeat about it and the kids adjust..they know that I can't compete with my ex monetarily nor do I try to..I do what I need to do to make sure they are in a safe loving environment. But it would be nice if the system didnt figure things on 12 months (only the actuals so to speak)...so would you like the Bose system in the H2??? :)