My fiance's ex-wife's boyfriend applied for a transfer to Illinois (we live in NY) and he started work there at the beginning of July. She agreed to marry him, and plans on moving the kids there on August 5th, and admitted she wasn't going to tell us until she was "all set".
We found out, confronted her, filed a petition and her stopped- temporarily. We go to court on July 31st (that's in 6 days!) Our lawyer says we have a good case because she has to prove that the move is in the kids best interest, and that the courts usually only consider the move if 1) she's moving to follow a husband (she's not- they got engaged AFTER he took the transfer; 2) she's taking a better job (that doesn't work either- she's a stay-at-home mom- the move is because of his job, and he never lost his job, he requested the transfer because of concerns about what might happen w/ his job next year. He had options to stay here, and never even looked for other jobs in this area- plus, he's not the kid's provider, my fiance is, and their mom CAN work- even if she wants to wait until all the kids are in school, that will be next fall. Not to mention he took a $4-$5/hr pay CUT to take this job); 3) if she were moving the kids closer to family (she's moving them AWAY from ALL of their family. No one is in Illinois but strangers).
So, even though they've sold their home here (not that she's told us that yet), she's got a place to stay at her mom's and the kids all have homes with their dads, and their new "home" in Illinois? It's a 3 bedroom apartment- for the 5 of them. They're going to that from a 3 story house w/ a fenced in backyard w/ a pool?! That's supposed to be in the kid's best interest? I think not. And she enrolled the kids in a Catholic school there and is trying to tell us we owe a share of the $2500 tuition!
While the burden of proof is on her, we've built a case proving how involved my fiance is in his kids lives, I have a list of "examples" that I faxed to the lawyer today from daddy taking the kids to all of their doctors appointments- rearranging his work schedule, taking unpaid days to do so, even, while she's a SAHmom- to including their half sister (her daughter from a prior relationship) on our vacations and driving them back & forth to soccer lessons. I have pictures and ticket stubs from activities and events we've done w/ them, including copies of pictures their mom gave ny fiance from when they were separated but she had bday parties or holidays at her house and invited him over!
The ex is trying to say that we'll have more time w/ the kids when she sends them to us for the summer and during school breaks then we do now, so I enlarged a 2007 calendar and circled all of our scheduled visitation based on the current agreement on one copy, then circled her proposed days on another- we have more time with them now! All around, we come out on top. BUT, YOU JUST NEVER KNOW. We don't even go in front of a judge- it's a Court Attorney Referee, but our lawyer knows him and says that, based on NY statutes, she can't win. We were hoping to have the same court date w/ the other daughter's dad (who is also fighting to keep her in NY) but since he hasn't gotten his petiton back yet, their court date won't be until August, but that keeps the kids in the state even longer, so we're okay with that.
Okay- so now that you have the background- help? We're still freaking out and want to do anything else we can to make sure we can keep our babies here with us. They're 4 & 5 (the older daughter is 10) and their mom keeps telling them they're moving. They come to our house and cry about how they're going to miss us but "mommy says we won't see you for a long time but we can call you and then when we do see you again we can spend the night for a while." It breaks my heart. Please help. Thank you!
with the same kind of preparation and anxiety . . . and in the end, the move was defered. which meant that the lawyers agreed BM would have to wait a year and then if she still wanted to move, she could try again. That's because when all the "evidence" was on the table, the state puts preserving the relationship with the Dad above most other considerations, and we came out on top. As you will, too, probably (and in this case, there are the relationships with TWO dads to balance against this whimlike following of a new man). It sounds to me like she has a proposed visitation schedule worked out that does give you time with the kids and that's something to think about - our BM didn't have a plan on that end (other than making my DH drive 12 hours for his regular EOW visits if he still wanted them!). But even if she's planning on giving you lots of time over the summer, she has already shown herself to be less than cooperative - by trying to move without telling you AND by signing the girls up for a school without consulting their father. Another thing to consider is whether this is part of an ongoing pattern of interference - in other words, does she have a history of not allowing Dad all of the time he is entitled to? I think the lack of extended family there is also in your favor - if there are extended family in your current community, don't forget to mention them by name. To show community ties.
with the same kind of preparation and anxiety . . . and in the end, the move was defered. which meant that the lawyers agreed BM would have to wait a year and then if she still wanted to move, she could try again. That's because when all the "evidence" was on the table, the state puts preserving the relationship with the Dad above most other considerations, and we came out on top. As you will, too, probably (and in this case, there are the relationships with TWO dads to balance against this whimlike following of a new man). It sounds to me like she has a proposed visitation schedule worked out that does give you time with the kids and that's something to think about - our BM didn't have a plan on that end (other than making my DH drive 12 hours for his regular EOW visits if he still wanted them!). But even if she's planning on giving you lots of time over the summer, she has already shown herself to be less than cooperative - by trying to move without telling you AND by signing the girls up for a school without consulting their father. Another thing to consider is whether this is part of an ongoing pattern of interference - in other words, does she have a history of not allowing Dad all of the time he is entitled to? I think the lack of extended family there is also in your favor - if there are extended family in your current community, don't forget to mention them by name. To show community ties.
Thank you for being encouraging. What state are you in, do you mind saying?
Yes, BM is offering to let us have the kids during school vacations, but right now they live almost across the street and we get them EOW & 1 day/wk but we take them much more than that. There really isn't a history of her not allowing dad time w/ the kids- she actually calls and asks him to take them, says she "can't handle them" and has called crying saying she "never asked to be a single parent." She has even admitted, over the phone to both me and my FH that, while she loves the 4 yr. old, she never wanted to have her (she wanted to have an abortion cuz she got pregnant when their son was only 6 wks old). We have told her numerous times that we'll take the kids but she won't give them up- cuz that would mean giving up the $ too.
We plan on bringing family w/ us to court- especially my FH's aunt who will be our daycare provider should we get custody, and my twin sister, who's our "back-up" babysitter- who BM used to PAY to babysit, back when she actually had a job herself.
Is there anything else we can do to prepare? Points we should make?
Do you have the exact days that you have the kids (the extra time too)? If you cold put that in calendar form and highlight the days you had and then the other days with a total, that should go far too.
Do you have a visitation plan for HER if you got custody? She moved so I would have her pay for transporting ect... but be generous too. Will she move without them?
I would also have a visitation plan ready IF you fail to stop the move. Make it detailed as possible with the school calendar. Ask for all long school breaks. They have them almost every month.
I am in NY too. With my SD, it was written that BM could not move more than 30 miles. Let us know what happens....
First, don't worry that it's not a judge. It's not important. Next, when my ex and I were calculating the child support, the issue of my son's private school education came up. He didn't want to pay, and flat said no. Since sending my son to the private school was a priority to me, I agreed to finance it on my own. Dad has the right to refuse to pay for private school tuition. If the kids are going to public school now, all the better to support your case (but not necessary). Most importantly, it sounds like Dad is a great guy who is very involved in his children's lives. You are a lucky woman! Breathe deep and GOOD LUCK!!
We do have the days- I highlighted our current visitation compared to the summer vacation & 1 wk ea for Thanksgiving, Xmas, winter break & spring break (that's customary breaks for here, not sure what Illinois will have, but that's what we're using as an example, and giving BM 1 wk at xmas too) and our current EOW + 1 day/wk is more days than the school vacations. This was BM's big point but I blew this theory out of the water w/ my calendar, and faxed it the lawyer yesterday, and have pretty, color-coded copies for court!
We have pictures & ticket stubs of activities, games, spending time w/ extended family, and family members who will be day care providers all ready to go to court w/ us, too.
My FH thinks BM will move w/ out the kids- his move left him w/ his dad when he was a baby, so he knows it's possible, but I can't imagine a mother doing it. And I know she won't give up the money. I think BM's FH will quit his job and move back her and things will go back to the way they were, IF the courts say she can't move the kids (fingers crossed)! If she decides to go, then we will let her have them for the same vacations she was offering us, and we will carpool w/ her other daughter's father, picking up & dropping off the kids- we decided whoever has custody should be responsible for the transportation.
The only thing written in their separation agreement (their divorce will be final any day now) is that HE can't remove the kids from NY state w/out HER written permission (like when we took them to Niagara Falls for vacation). But we didn't even realize that until this whole issue came up. Once this is all settled, we'll have our lawyer file a motion or whatever to have a couple of things changed in their agreement, depending on who ends up w/ custody after all.
I can definitely relate to what you guys are going through because we went to court several years ago to prevent my husband's ex-wife to relocate minor children to ANOTHER COUNTRY! Fortunately for us, the court ruled in our favor. This is in state of FL. There are basically 6 factors to consider in a relocation case and we covered all of it. The ex-wife didn't have a leg to stand on even when she drew up an elaborate visitation plan (allowing more time with the kids) and offered to pay half of the children's international airfare every trip. As the judge put it out, the move will not give Dad the same access to the children and vice versa which will negatively impact their relationship. Our kids were 7 and 5 yrs old then.
So, with that said, you guys are on the right track with documenting everything especially the times you get to spend with the kids. That's very important to show the court that you have established such a strong bond with them. My best advice is to FOCUS ON THE CHILDREN and not badmouth the ex-wife. This will not look favorable in court. Living out-of-state will prevent you guys from having that constant, physical interaction that you get to enjoy now living in the same city. It will also be a deterrence from being actively involved in the kids' academic and social life. You can expound on just how DETRIMENTAL this move will be on the young kids and their relationship with their father.
Looking back, we were so stressed and nervous about our own relocation case especially since husband's an active duty military member. We feared that will go against us. However, if the FOCUS in on the CHILDREN, the court will definitely see that and your case will not be hard at all to defend. I have a feeling you guys will prevail just as we did.
Good luck!
Wow - I read your post and I definately feel where you are coming from. I am in Calif. and am in the middle of a move-away case. I have joint custody of two girls, and when I returned them from their last visit, three days later I received a certified letter from their mother indicating that they have moved to Arizona, six hours away! I immediately called my lawyer and scheduled an emergency hearing, and won. Their mother was ordered today to return the girls back to my county and cannot move them out of our county until the custody issue is resolved. Next hearing is Sept. 20th. So she had to return to Calif. with her two other children and move into her fathers house in order to retain the current visitation order. I really wanted them to give me immediate temp. custody, but to no avail. I have a great home, with both girls having their own rooms, and I already paid for summer camp for them - but that doesn't matter. I'm now preparing big time for the next hearing, and your post has really helped in gathering info. I'm going to fight for my girls to the fullest extent, as their life-style has deteriated so much since we divorced, and mine has gotten much better. I can provide so many more resources and if you know me - I'm a very involved Dad. My ex has so many issues that are going against her (kidnapping for one), that I hope they weigh hevily in my favor. Thanks for the post.. I'll keep you updated if you'd like - we seem to have very similar issues....
Yes, please keep me updated, and good luck! It really sucks for good dads that the system is already agains them because not only has society typically ruled in favor of the mom, but there are so many dead beat dads out there giving good dads a bad name!
Luckily in our case BM has an older daughter who's father is also fighting, and his petition was granted yesterday. His court date is August 18th so BM can't leave for Illinois now until after that date- she was planning on leaving August 5th. We go to court on Monday and while we have a good case, I'm terrified. This other father says he has never won against BM- we've never gone to court against her, everything's been pretty civil up until now.
Again, good luck and keep me posted. Thanks.
Yes, please keep me updated, and good luck! It really sucks for good dads that the system is already agains them because not only has society typically ruled in favor of the mom, but there are so many dead beat dads out there giving good dads a bad name!
Luckily in our case BM has an older daughter who's father is also fighting, and his petition was granted yesterday. His court date is August 18th so BM can't leave for Illinois now until after that date- she was planning on leaving August 5th. We go to court on Monday and while we have a good case, I'm terrified. This other father says he has never won against BM- we've never gone to court against her, everything's been pretty civil up until now.
Again, good luck and keep me posted. Thanks.
Good luck on Monday and I'll definitely keep you guys in my prayers. Just remember to keep the FOCUS on the children and show that you are trying to preserve/maintain the status quo. Outside of that, if ex-wife can't prove (and, yes, she has the burden of proof here) that this move will be SO MUCH BETTER for the kids' life and WILL NOT NEGATIVELY IMPACT their father's access to them and vice versa, then your case should be a no-brainer. Hopefully, you'll get a FAIR judge who will preside for the kids' best interests.
Thanks. Yeah, we're definitely going to stay positive towards the kids and not focus on their mom. The last thing we want to do is bad mouth her or anything like that- that will just make us look bad. We honestly want to keep everything the way it is! We don't want anything to change! Well, my fiance would LOVE to get full custody, but, for the kids' sake, so as not to disrupt their lives any further, we just want the judge to rule that their mom can't move them out of the state. Then, as long as she decides not to move herself, she can keep physical custody. We're still going to file a motion to have their separation agreement amended to joint custody (she has "sole legal" right now) and if she chooses to move to Illinois after all, we get custody anyway.
The other dad involved and his wife think we're going to walk into court on Monday and we're just going to win; the ex thinks she's going to walk out of there with the okay to move; I have a strong feeling we'll be told that the court wants to "evaluate" the situation, maybe assign a Guardian Ad Litem to the kids, do home evaluations, etc. and the whole thing will be dragged out. While that may benefit us because we have absolutely nothing to hide, and any "investigating" will only furthur prove just how involved we are w/ the kids, and it may keep them in town that much longer, we just want the stress to end!
Thanks again for your replies. This situation is stressful enough, especially since I was trying to plan our wedding, and I had to go to the hospital last night to say "goodbye" to an elderly aunt who we don't think will be around much longer. What an awful summer this has turned out to be.
My husband and I are currently at the beginning of the same battle. we live in Virginia, and his ex-wife is currently planning on moving to NC. so we definitely sympathize. She doesn't work (is on disabiltiy) and says she's moving to get a fresh start. It's weird how she needs to make her fresh start in the same town her boyfriend is moving to. I feel pretty confidant about our case, and have read as much as could find relevant to relocation cases in Virginia. I've compared schools that my stepson would attend, and hers is comparable to ours. All of his extended family is here, and we have always provided the stable family environment for him. Since she doesn't work, she can't prove an economic inprovement. Also, we've always been very involved in my stpeson's life,. Still there are no guarantees, so we're stressing a little. We'll keep you in our prayers, and ask you to keep us in yours. I'm sorry that you're in the same boat as us, but it helps to know we're not alone.
Yes, I will keep you in my thoughts. My best advice is documentation. I have compiled so much stuff, mostly my own lists of "Examples of father's involvement in children's lives" and "Child Care Arrangements" (I covered every possible scenario from no school days to when my fiance is working days or nights, to if the regular babysitter isn't available, done to the times we'd pick up). Even if our attorney doesn't get to use any of it in court, it makes me feel like I'm doing something useful. Plus, our lawyer seemed surprised when I knew about the NY cases that they'll reference in court, even the cases that had outcomes not in our favor. I've done so much research!
We had our "first appearance" in family court this morning, and his ex seemed like she honestly thought she'd walk in there and leave having "won" and would be able to move to Illinois this weekend. The "referee" (it's not a judge) told her we're not in trial yet, he's only holding up the judge's petition stating she can't take the kids out of the state, but she's free to go! And if she does go, the kids go to their father! We go back on the 10th, after the kids meet with a law guardian (who is an old friend of my parent's, but if BM takes the kids to the appt. we won't get to tell him this- it may not affect it one way or the other, but I'm willing to try!) BM left their ticked off, never spoke 2 words to us the entire time. The next court date got bumped up to the 10th from the 22nd cuz BM's mom was there and complained that the kids are due to start school (in Illinois) on the 23rd. But then the referee pointed out that if we go to trial, that will run way past the beginning of school in either state! His tone of voice was very demeaning towards BM the entire time, and when he told her she was free to leave, but the kids weren't, he even flipped his hand at her, said "Go! But they don't leave!" We feel much better now. Even though BM can get an attorney now and will have time to prepare before a trial, we're way ahead of her.
So don't lose faith- keep fighting! There's still hope for all of us!