Due to accounting errors at the Oklahoma Child Support Enforcement division of the DHS, they will file a redirect for my state tax refund almost each year. And each time, I have to call and raise a stink to get them to admit that they should not have done this and to release the full amount. The first couple of times they did this they kept the money and never refunded it even though they now admit that it is a problem with their accounting.
After several years (more than 8 now) I am growing tired of this. Last year they did not do this so I filed electronically to receive my refund quickly. Well, I got a letter from them again saying that once again they were taking part of my state refund. After several calls, I received a letter about 2 weeks ago saying they made a mistake and would send the request to release the full amount and that it was up to teh central office when the would do it. I have made two more calls recently and have been told that they will do it when they get to it.
Would it be worthwhile to file a small claims suite against child support enforcement for my tax refund amount, the cost of electronically filing and any lost wages for filing the claim? Would it possibly solve anything?
I'm at the point where I have no idea how to keep them from doing this except to perhaps make them work to defend their actions a bit.
I will probably eventually get my refund, but who knows when and I am out the filing fees because of their error.
Just curious what the consensus would be here. I used to be semi-regular here years back and think I posted some of my problems with this back then, but never considered legal action.
Thanks in advance for any feedback I get.
Hmm, okay, interesting. I've actually been thinking about this for a few years. I have no legal advice at this time however I do have a suggestion. The first thing you need to find out is IF they can actually be sued in small claims court (in your state). For instance in some states you can't sue a doctor in small claims bottom line. In other states you can but you need to have a statement from another doctor proving damages in order to do so. I'm thinking that perhaps there are probably some kinda legalise involved with suing the state. I know in VA you can sue the state in district court but I have no idea about OK. However if I get some time later I'd be pleased to help you look.
I say, go sic em'! This is utter b.s. One suggestion that you can do now is send them a certified RR letter requesting an *audit* of your account. Please, don't do anything over the phone. You need to leave a paper trail.
Kindest regards;
KAT
I called today and they agreed to send me a complete audit of the account which would only show when they received any monies from a tax redirect. The past several years they have not received any tax offset because I patiently waited for them to drag their feet and release it. It's only this year that I am growing tired enough of it to actually pursue action if I can.
I don't know what else to do except wait. In oklahoma, you can't actually call your local CSED office or the office handling the case (in this case about 90 mile one way trip) - you call a central number and they e-mail the information and you never hear from them again.
In talking to the Oklahoma Tax Commission, CSED has full access to their system. This is how they intercept the taxes. This is also how they release the intercept. Except CSED seems to prefer to take the slow route to release it. This according to the person I talked to at the Tax Commission who is in the tax intercept department. The are none too happy with the way CSED runs things.
What irks me is that CSED can redirect any individual's tax refund at their discretion. You are not given a chance for a hearing (only after they redirect the funds). You are persumed guilty and if you don't raise a fuss, they take the money and you never see a dime of it back.
At this point, I'll have to wait and see another week. I hate the thought of paying ot file a case, pay to have them served, take off work, etc. It would probably cost me more that my refund and somehow I think CSED knows this.
Any insight or opinions on how to keep this from happening would be appreciated. I so want this to be the last year they do this.
Steve
I guess my question becomes -- what happens each year that causes the "system" to think they are entitled to withhold the state taxes?
My other thought is to start working your way UP the chain of command. Everyone works for someone....
The way the system works is they CSED sends a request to your employer and requests the CS to be taken directly form your pay. They provide a formula for determining the amoount per pay period based on when your normal pay periods are.
So in my case, I get paid every other week. If my CS amount is ordered at $750.00 month, you multiply $750 x 12 (months) = $9000.00. Then you divide the $9000.00 yearly CS by the number of pay periods which are 26. This equates to $346.15 per pay period. Most months I have two pay periods (346.15 x 2 = $692.30) but two months I have 3 pay periods (346.15 x 3 = $1038.45) So if we start out the year and I get two pay periods each month for 6 months, they show me as being in arrears. Then when I hit a month with 3 pay periods, I am ahead. It all depends on when these 3 payperiod months fall within the year.
CSED is aware that this happens althoug they acted surprised each time I mentioned it to them during the first few years "Just pay your child support you deadbeat' one of them told me.
So over the year, $9000.00 is paid.
My accounting department offered to send in monthly payments and CSED actually told them not to when my company was workign with them to resolve this issue a couple of years back.
As there is only one point of contact for the entire state, I can only contact the 'customer service' department. I have politely asked for a supervisor and have bee denied even a contact number or any contact with a supervisor or anyone above an operator. Their own website has no information about upper level management contacts. I cannot directly contact my caseworker even though I have asked. No other contact is offered or provided so I cannot go up the chain of command. I have even called the contact number and the first thing I asked for was for a supervisor. They refused unless I give them my name and social security number and then they say that they are not going to let me talk to a supervisor as there is nothing they can do for me.
Steve
to complain about your situation.
Many people have posted here and have described exactly what you're going through, so I understand that part. Not sure any complaining is actually going to fix your situation and headaches because it's computer driven.
I'm wondering......what happens IF you pay say one payment of $346.15 ahead. Wouldn't that almost always keep you ahead according to the system? (Stupid computers....that's what it boils down to, they can't really think).
As for the going up the chain....everyone works for someone.
On their home page, can't you tell if this falls under the "Department of Human Resources" or something?
I used to get really frustrated as a receiving parent of CS and figured out that no one was really to blame, but the computer. Whenever my EX's payday fell on the 30th or 31st, the stupid computer would think he didn't pay during the next month. Yet the computer showed that he paid twice the previous month...... I think finally, somewhere somehow, (couldn't be because I was the only one complaining), the computer now checks previous months if nothing is paid by the 15th and discovers a second payment that can get released to bring things up to date.
No one really to blame, it's all in the programming. So find the programmer and scream!!! O.K... Many people get paid bi-weekly, but CS is set monthly.....so computers are the problem.
Maybe that too is why when you call they're not letting you through to a supervisor because they know they really can't do anything to fix the programming.
The real answer is to re-program the computer to work with parents who are paid bi-weekly and monthly somewhere in the options so that they are never considered "behind."......
I don't have any advice but I can truly sympathize with you. My dh owed back support from the time that the request for support was filed until the time that the support was granted and actually taken out of his check. This arrearage was taken care of when they took his tax return that year, he ended up getting about $8 back from it. Two years later when we got custody, we had to send DCF the court order 3 times before they would stop taking the money out of his check, his company would stop taking it out and they would call and threaten to sue the company if they didn't start sending the child support again. After we finally got this settled (by this time DCF owed us quite a bit of money) they started sending dh letters saying that he was behind on his child support. He finally after about a month of calling and calling his case worker got this settled (well, they still owe him money but at least they aren't saying that he owes them). I also asked to talk to a supervisor and was told that they were not available to speak to and that the case workers never answered their phones because they just didn't have the time.
The easiest way to fix this problem is to fix your taxes so you always owe a little rather then have it so you get a refund.
The state likes the money. They are NOT going to help you fix this. YOU have to fix it for you.
As my caseworker said: "Even if you can produce every check you sent and I agree with you that you were never late and you never missed a payment, I have to go by what it says on my computer screen"!!!!!!
Of course you never get to talk to whoever is responsible for putting that on the computer screen!
Every month my CS statement from the state says that I should send a payment of just over $200. Well let's see, my obligation for CS is over $400 a month, so why are they asking for only $200? Somewhere along the line a few years ago, the state decided that I owed them the $200. Can't seem to get that rectified, so I ignore it. But every month they show that for 2 weeks I am $200 behind and then for 2 weeks I am $200 overpaid. Go figure.
Can't wait till May when son turns 18 and we get to straighten out the whole shebang! Should be fun.
I would worry about carrying an overdue balance in Oklahoma. They accrue interest here!
I've managed to use a little 'social engineering' and get the phone numbers for the people who actually adjust the tax commissions records (Office of Finance). Should be an interesting call.......
I have adjusted my taxes so that I have as little taken out as comfortable. My income fluctuates due to bonuses and overtime each year though. One thing that I never understood is that my company offered to send one monthly payment in to avoid all of this and CSED told them not to. What would be the reason for doing this?
If your income fluctuates because of bonuses and such, then your withholding could be set so you always owe taxes. Why not make this adjustment on your W-4 in order to avoid this frustration every year?
>If your income fluctuates because of bonuses and such, then
>your withholding could be set so you always owe taxes. Why not
>make this adjustment on your W-4 in order to avoid this
>frustration every year?
>
>
I would rather try and fix the problem instead of applying a 'bandaid' fix.
The simple matter is that I should not have to do anything. It's a relatively simple matter for them to fix their accounting system - put a simple indicator into the system/spreadsheet, etc. that says the NCP's payments are through income assignment and are not subject to a tax offset.
It's not that hard, they know this is happening, why should (potentially) thousands of NCPs be made to configure their taxes where they always owe? And don't forget that many of them are poor and cannot always come up with a variable tax liability at the end of the year.
I would also expect that if they don't get their tax offset, they could adjust my tax liability seeing how they have access to the tax comissions system and can make adjustments.
Maybe I am just being paranoid, but I think you ask anyone who has had to be on both ends of child support in Oklahoma (NCP and CP) they are probably just as paranoid as I.
I suggested fixing your W-4 in order for you to avoid the obvious frustration you are dealing with every year at tax time. Like I said, the state likes the money. They will not fix the system. You can only take care of you. They don't care about you or the other thousands in their system. YOU can't fix the system either; you can only cut your losses.
They cannot adjust your tax liablity concerning your W-4. I used to have large deductions so I would end up getting large refunds. I did not want this to happen. Why should I give an interest free loan to the federal government???? So I followed IRS regs and upped my exemptions to 20. They did send me a form letter questioning this, and then I filled out the form and showed how I qualified for so many exemptions. End of story.
You are right: it would not be hard for them to fix the system. Problem is, they have ZERO incentive to do so!
Good Luck
Victoria Harrison (405) 522-0032 ~ The contact person for the Oklahoma Customer Service Quality Improvement Process
This person may not be able to solve your problem but may get the ball rolling.
The other thing that I would suggest is STOP calling and start doing everything in writing. When you write make sure you tell them the time frame you wish a response. If you have your caseworkers name and which office the case worker is working out of you can always send the letter certified return reciept requested to prove SOMEONE at the office got the letter.
You will not have much of a leg to stand on without writen proof you have attempted to remedy the problem prior to seeking litigation.
JMO
TM