I live in MD but my support order is in PA. The order was put into effect in 2001 and has never been modified. I currently receive $158.00 bi-weekly. Since then, I have married and moved to Maryland in 2003. I have primary legal and physical custody of my 6 year old son with his dad getting approx. 100 overnights a year, give or take a few. I was never married to my son's father.
Per our Custody Order, I am to do all of the transportation back and forth. I have had another child with my husband and we have another on the way. I am currently a stay-at-home mom because I wouldn't make enough to cover the costs of childcare. I believe that my son's father has a considerably higher paying job since 2001, but I seriously doubt that it pay more than my husbands.
Questions:
1) Does my husband's income have to be disclosed since I currently have none of my own? We do file jointly. (I would be surprised if this answer is 'no' but wishful thinking can't hurt ;c) )
2) If not, will they determine the amount of support based on only my earning capacity?
3) If I do need to disclose it, would that mean that my husband's income is 'our' income and his expenses are 'our' expenses?
4) In my case, I take my son's to his fathers twice a month 360 miles round-trip for a total of 720 per month. Would I be able to list this as an extraordinary expense? (In our 'agreement', I did agree to do 100% of transportation, but that was before gas became ridiculous. But that's neither one of our faults.)
5) I have heard that if you have an infant at home, mothers are exempt from working for a year after their birth. Is this a myth?
I have a CS date on 1/24 and due to budget issues, can't afford to have a lawyer present so I am flying solo. Thanks for all your help and suggestions in advance. Feel free to ask any questions if something is unclear.
~Eva
Mine
Who initiated the CS hearing? You are getting quite a lot for one child ($316 a month). We are supposed to be getting $340 a month for two kids. If the real reason for a modificaiton is the travelling issues, why are you having a child support hearing? You need to modify the agreement. And as I asked below - who moved?
now yours
1) Does my husband's income have to be disclosed since I currently have none of my own? We do file jointly. (I would be surprised if this answer is 'no' but wishful thinking can't hurt ;c) )
No, his does not.
2) If not, will they determine the amount of support based on only my earning capacity?
Yes, they will and will base it on your earning capacity in the past.
3) If I do need to disclose it, would that mean that my husband's income is 'our' income and his expenses are 'our' expenses?
You should divide all of your expenses in half for your expenses. (car, mortgage)
4) In my case, I take my son's to his fathers twice a month 360 miles round-trip for a total of 720 per month. Would I be able to list this as an extraordinary expense? (In our 'agreement', I did agree to do 100% of transportation, but that was before gas became ridiculous. But that's neither one of our faults.)
If the order is in PA, did you move? It isn't an extraordinary expense at all. Would it be cheaper for you to fly your son to Dad's?
5) I have heard that if you have an infant at home, mothers are exempt from working for a year after their birth. Is this a myth?
Yes, most certainly is a myth.
I initiated the modification on the grounds that there has been a change in circumstances and not just the travel expenses. And yes, I was the one who moved.
The changes are that:
*My son is older (he was only 2 when the order was issued and his father was paying for childcare at that time. He isn't anymore]
*His father now has a higher paying job
*He has less visitation time than the original custody order that the child support order was based on. (In '01 he had 3 nights a week equaling about 156 overnights, now he has about 100)
*And lastly, I am no longer working, but this is by my choice.
I am contemplating not even bringing up the issue or transportation because I did agree to it 4 years ago. However, at our last court appearance in Oct '05, the judge 'encouraged' his father to help with the transportation. Now I know encouraging doesn't mean he has to do squat, but I would actually much rather him come get him sometimes than increase his support. I am hoping that he may agree to some of the transporting if he is faced with having to pay an increase in support.
It is not cheaper to fly him (I have checked) nor is it practical. We don't live in or near a big city, so the flights would be regional and the schedule would more often than not, not in line with the custody order. Same with taking a train.
Also, I didn't mention this earlier, but it is very relevant. At the time of our original order, he was paying support for an older child (not by me =)). He has since gained primary custody of her (that's a whole other story) and is now receiving support from her mother.
How far back do they look for past income? Do they look since the original order was placed or my last employment?
Thanks for all of your information; it has helped me understand a lot.
~Eva
Eva,
The other poster gave you some incorrect info. Since the support order is in PA, you have to look at the way PA sets up CS. While each county has their own way of doing things, the basic premise is the same. As to your questions . . .
1) Does my husband's income have to be disclosed since I currently have none of my own? We do file jointly. (I would be surprised if this answer is 'no' but wishful thinking can't hurt ;c) )
>>>You and your husband made the decision for you to stay at home. Therefore he agreed to assume the financial responsibility for your percentage of support. So since he is now financially responsible for your daughters support, his income counts.
2) If not, will they determine the amount of support based on only my earning capacity?
>>They can look at your earning ability and calculate CS on that amount. I would fimd the PA site and use the dissometor and run the numbers for both.
3) If I do need to disclose it, would that mean that my husband's income is 'our' income and his expenses are 'our' expenses?
>> Your husbands income is your primary source of support. But his expenses don't count unless they are extrodinardy expences.
4) In my case, I take my son's to his fathers twice a month 360 miles round-trip for a total of 720 per month. Would I be able to list this as an extraordinary expense? (In our 'agreement', I did agree to do 100% of transportation, but that was before gas became ridiculous. But that's neither one of our faults.)
>> No. Since you are the one that moved, you are responsible for all transportation. You have already signed an agreement to that effect.
5) I have heard that if you have an infant at home, mothers are exempt from working for a year after their birth. Is this a myth?
>> Yes that is a myth. The average mother who must work to support her children is only given 6-8 weeks for maternity leave. The court agrees with this practice.
Also your reply to the other poster suggests you have decreased the amount of parenting time due to your move already. So what you are asking the court to do is make the Dad pay more for less time because you moved and had more children.
Also your reasons for the increase are pretty basic. Child is older, Dad is getting paid more, visits are fewer, and your unemployed. You also bring up transportation costs. So lets address these.
The child's expences have increased.
>>He was 2 when the origional order was signed. He is only 6 now. How much did his expences go up? More than 20%? Are you asking for educational factors? Is he playing sports or something?
Dad has gotten a pay increase.
>>Do you know how much? If it is not more than 20% it doesn't matter.
Dad has fewer visits.
>>If this is solely due to your move, it doesn't count. If you had not moved, Dad would have been able to enjoy the visitation time set forth in the origional order.
You are now a stay at home mom.
>>Not his problem. That was a decision you and your husband made. Why should he be responsible for a decision he had no part in making.
Then there is the transportation issue.
>>You are having a financial problem with transportation due to increases in gas prices. But you are the one that decided to move. He should not be responsible for your decision. However, the court may assign him a percentage of the cost. BUT that will be calculated into any increase in CS and will off-set the increased amount. This depends on the Judge.
By the way, You were in court just a couple of months ago. What was that hearing about??
The Witch
Remember . . . KARMA is a Wonderful Thing!!!!!
about number one - his income counts because she is a stay at home Mom? The rest of our answers are virtually the same but honestly, I have never read about a SAHM filing for more support so I am assuming that like in most States, the other spouses income can only be used if the NCP is requesting a decrease in CS (that's the only way a spouse's income can be used in FL).
I think the poster may end up getting less if there is no more daycare - guess it depends on the raise the NCP got.
But I'll agree that when a working parent decides to become a SAHP because new spouse can support them, there is a high chance the souse's income will be used. But the greater chance is that the parent's income will be imputed.
I think someone from CA had this happen to them.
I think it's wrong for a CP who chooses not to work to go back for more Child support. I took a 2/3's cut in pay when I retired and didn't take the NCP back for more money.
If she has other reasons, fine....
.
We were in court because we both filed for contempt in our custody order. In PA, or at least Philadelphia County, custody and support matters are always separate.
I did move, but he also 'agreed' to allow me to move, so he 'agreed' to less time. Why can't it work both ways? Why does it have to me 'I' or 'He' decreased it? WE decreased it.
Could you please give me a definition of 'extraordinary expense'? I hear it a lot, but what would or wouldn't be one? If my husband is now responsible for my portion of his support, wouldn't the mortgage, electric, water etc., be relevant since that is for my son also? And we surely couldn't get him to his dad's without a car.
At the time support was issued, they gave him 'credit' because he was paying my sons childcare. He isn't any longer. But my son isn't in any special care now either. I can tell you, he sure eats a whole lot more and goes through clothes and shoes like nothing else. Does that matter, or do they only look at educational expenses?
Thanks!
Eva,
I am also in phila so I can tell you from experience the chances of your husbands income being used are pertty good. When Soc told you, the court will ask for his income only if he raises that, is only half correct. When my DH was going through this, the hearing officer asked for his ex's income. When she reported she was also a SAHM the hearing officer asked for her husbands. The hearing officer told her that since she and her husband decided she would stay at home, he was responsible for her portion of support and they would run the numbers using his income. She did not get her increase. My DH should have gotten a decrease but since she filed, not him the amount remained the same. They did however, suggest to my DH he could file on his own to decrease.
You are right that visitation and support are seperate issues, however everything in your file is available to the hearing officers. If they see contempt charges filed for visitation, some, not all will not look kindly on you if they feel you are keeping the child from him. If there is more than one petition for visitation contempt, that will suggest to them you are attempting to hinder his access to the child.
When you show up before a hearing officer, and I assume this hearing will be there and not before a judge, they will ask for your financial statement papers, but they rarely look at them. Unless there is some major expence that concerns the child and only the child, they just don't care. And since your order provides you assume transportation costs, that would not be considered an extrodenary expence. As far as your bills, the court assumes he is paying comparative bills. The increases in your expenses are a direct result of your decision to remarry and have additional children. He is not responsible for that decision.
What I can suggest is for you to come to some agreement where by he agrees to do half the transportation if you agree to decrease his support. The chance of you getting a substancial raise in support and shared transportation costs are extreamly slim.
The Witch
Remember . . . KARMA is a Wonderful Thing!!!!!
The poster is under the jurisdiction of Phila courts. Here there are several steps before a judge will even look at a CS petition. Here CS is calculated using both parents income. When a sahm files for an increase, they will use her new spouses income or impune her income, usually twice the rate of minimum wage.
The Witch
Remember . . . KARMA is a Wonderful Thing!!!!!
Eva,
You wrote the last hearing in Oct was for visitation contempt that you filed against each other. I am wondering what you were filing contempt for, I can probably guess he was filing because of missed visits.
Also, you stated you both agreed to your moving and lesser visits, Did you file an amended order with the court?
The Witch
Remember . . . KARMA is a Wonderful Thing!!!!!
He won't agree to do any transportation, regardless of the decrease. First off, he won't get a license so he doesn't have to do transportation (he's 30), so in a sense, I had to agree to 100% transportation or I wouldn't have been able to move. The reason I moved was because my husband is in the military and he was stationed in MD. After he got out we decided to stay. I bet your wondering why I don�t just move back, right? :P My husbands line of work is in the DC area and he makes pretty good money. There isn�t a job like his available in Philly.
I have said to him that he could pick up Eli from school if he came and picked him up from here in MD and then I would get him from Philly because he is always complaining how late he gets to Philly. But no dice. He would rather me take him out of school early. He also thinks it only takes 1 1/2 - 2 hours to go 180 miles.
So what your saying is I most likely will not get and increase, but he probably would be entitled to a decrease? So, should I just cancel the hearing or play dumb and not show up with my husband�s income info?
About the contempt�s. I was in the wrong and so was he. Mine was worst though. I will keep in brief. The original order was 2 weekends a month, dad�s discretion and then 9 weeks in the summer, basically his whole summer break. We started in Jan of �04 and everything was fine until he disagreed with when Eli last day of school would be. The day he is dropped off for the summer is based on the last day of school. Since he was in daycare in another county, the date was different than the county school schedule. He didn�t agree. So I tried to compromise, but he wasn�t happy so he kept him when he had him Memorial Day weekend until 8/8.
I was told that I could file in MD and he would have to come here. So I stopped following the order because I was stupid thinking that would actually work. I was thinking this would be resolved by Xmas. But since his dad ignored the MD filings and summons to respond, it dragged out over a year; in the meantime he filed contempt in PA. I actually have a default final order in MD that I could use, but what�s the point? He would be following PA and I would be following MD and it�s not worth the trouble anymore.
There is no way I can keep affording to drive back and forth, and I don't mean just financially. I am getting to the point where all I see me doing is contributing to the problem because his father will never give up. Not saying that he should. He has rights, but he is extremely difficult to work with and keeps fighting to get sole custody when there are absolutely no grounds to do so. There is no compromising with him. I am sure you have heard this all before and probably have your own horror story. But I and my family is suffering over this. I hate to give up, because that�s what it is, but I cannot got through the next 12 years of my life going to court every 1 or 2 years because he doesn�t like what doctor I take him too, or what medicine I say he needs etc. I have to think about my family and my other kids and not just my son.
Even though here in MD, my son goes to a better school and is a better environment structurally, financially, emotionally, environmentally etc., I feel like I am just contributing to his detriment. Every day I ask myself what I keep fighting for. I used to easily say that it's because in Philly, he will live in a bad neighborhood, have to rely solely on public transportation, go to one of the worst schools in the city and be around his father�s family who are just not good people and are at or below the poverty level and are doing nothing to do better. Not saying you have to be rich to have kids, not at all, but they will by clothes than buy food. They will have a party and buy weed and alcohol instead of saving their money.
Well, thanks for letting me vent and all of your help. At least now I will be prepared for the worst.
as far as "So, should I just cancel the hearing or play dumb and not show up with my husband�s income info?"
No one here is telling you to play dumb. You have to bring your income tax returns usually to re-evaluate CS. Why are you trying to do this? He files for sole and visitaiton interference and you file for more CS? Isn't that adding to fuel the fire between you and your ex? And how could you get an order in MD if the PA courts did not let jurisdiction go? I don't blame you for not wanting to go to court time and time again. As a CP, it is your duty to FACILITATE the relationship between child and NCP and no matter what you think of your ex, he has a fundamental right to spend time with his child too and to make decisions regarding his DR and "what medicine YOU give him". You say you have to think of your family....no you have to think of your son, and how it is his best interests to see his father. If the ex is a jerk, your son will figure it out eventually.
You know, I had started to type out this really long post trying to explain everything, but it�s not worth it.
I have tried to facilitate a relationship with his father but he is a miserable and vindictive person who likes to get me upset. So I don�t let him anymore and I distance myself. I don�t even talk to him on the phone and will only send emails. He doesn�t want his son with him, he just wants him from me because he knows that is the only way he can hurt me. He likes to stir up drama just because.
When I said play dumb, it was half in jest. Obviously, I wouldn't have filed for a modification if knew it wouldn't go in my favor. It would be a waste of time, for me, him and the courts. I have to drive to Philly, take my son out of school for a day to go. (I have to take my son because there is no one to watch him here overnight and my husband leaves for work at 4:30 am.)
No one is trying to cause any fire. Is it not my right to try to get a modification just like him filing for contempt whenever he wants? When our case came up for our 3 year review, he had not had a job for 9 months and was actually trying to get a decrease due to his unemployment. So now I want my review along with the other reasons.
The reason MD gave a final order is because he never contested jurisdiction here. So they issue an order by default. But, it means nothing because when my son is in PA, he would just follow the PA order, so it would cause more trouble than its worth.
I just want to be able to live my life without having to deal with and @hole every two weeks. But I had a kid by this jerk and now I have to deal with it, and I am trying to do the best I can. Yes, he has a right to be with his father, even though when my son goes to his dad�s he undermines everything I tell my son as far as respecting my family and his behavior towards others. So when my son comes back, he is defiant for the first week back. Then, he gets back on track and then he goes to his dad�s and the cycle repeats itself. He does this because he wants me to break down and just give my son to him. He knows he will never get it from the courts until he can brainwash my son like he did his daughter, to tell a judge that he wants to live with his dad.
In regards to medication. It doesn�t matter what I do, he will go against it to have a reason to go to court. My son is allergic to cats. I got him tested and the only thing he has a severe reaction to is cats. So what does his dad do? Get a cat and tell my son he is sick because of the trees in MD. He finally just started giving him his medicine, but then doesn�t give it to him the day he comes back so he is always sick. I can�t prove or disprove him giving it to him.
So yeah, I will sit back and wait for my son to see his blatant lies, but this guy is good at manipulating. He makes my son feel guilty by not being loyal to him. I have him in counseling, but so far it just seems I have people that just want to put my son on drugs to solve his problems, and I am not having it. So in the meantime, I have to subject him to bull for the next, what, 6 or 7 years until he figures it out? By that time, who knows what damage this whole back and forth is going to cause? But oh well, it�s best for him to see his dad, right?
But oh well, it�s best for him to see his dad, right?
YES.