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I keep thinking about the "toe necklace":-) LOL, and I think we'll just pay up.

Originally, we had every intent on making DH the "poster child" for the unconstitutionality of college support, but in reality, we're looking at going from 1100.00/mo in child support to, at most, 300.00/mo in college support.  (Community college.)

You're right, Soc - paying 20K to fight that WOULD be like cutting our toe off and wearing it on a chain.  In addition, there are few, if ANY, attorneys that would be willing to go the distance on this.  We all know that they like to keep the status quo.

I don't like it, but at least the child has to actually DO something for the money, and it certainly won't be a cake walk for her...  And an added benefit is that she will not be able to blame her Father for the absence of a college degree.  She will be given a golden opportunity, and it will be oh so interesting to see how she uses it.

We will absolutely have an agreement in writing that will clearly state the conditions for our support.  If you have the time, feel free to advise as to what this document might look like, and what stipulations will have legal merit.  I've had great difficulty finding pertinent case law.

Best Regards,
Hazel

The state is Illinois.

Divorce decree, signed in 1987, clearly states that child support will end when child graduates from high school...  But the next paragraph states that "parents will contribute to college education based on their ability to pay and the child's aptitude and desire for higher learning."  We have an ability to pay and the child's grades are fine.  (Problem is, we have no desire to pay...)  Child will be graduating from high school in June '05.

DH has paid over $55,000 in child support in the past 6 years alone for one child.  He's never been late, and has never missed a payment in 17 years.  Child support is currently $1100.00 per month.  Child wants to live with Mom and attend a community college that will cost approximately $2000.00 per year.  (But of course Mom will want us to pay her for "living expenses.")

We do not wish to contribute to college financing, because we feel that we've already paid more than enough, and that this very "entitled" child will be better off if she works her way through.  We have no intention to give our other children free rides at college time, either.

1) Due to the ambiguity in the original decree, could we legally consider the exhorbitant child support amount we've already paid to be our "contribution" to college costs?  (Yes, I know you're probably laughing at this and that I'm grasping at straws here.)

2)  Is there any chance that we'll be ordered to continue full child support for the next 4 years?

3)  What do you think will really happen if he is ordered to pay and refuses to do so?

4)  If you were in our shoes, would you fight this to the extent of going to jail, or would you give in?


Thanks so much for what you do here, Soc.  ;)


Kindest Regards,
Hazel
;)

Thanks for your reply and for your kindness.  You are very wise.

SD is 18.  DH and I haven't had a relationship with her for 2 years now.  (We actually, in addition to everything else going on, had to move out of state due to job loss.)  There was a blowup that happened when she pulled the same kind of stuff that Dipper's SS has been doing... only she actually moved in with us for 10 months, turned our lives completely upside down, and then was "bought" back to Mommy's house.  (Dipper, BM used a car and a cell phone as the hook-- the gifts get much more expensive as the child gets older...lol)  She has turned into a very hateful, selfish and spoiled person as a result of getting her every heart's desire (material things only, though...) from BM.  Her bed at our house wasn't even cold before BM took DH back to court for more CS, to the tune of $1200.00 per month.  (Literally, she moved out on a Saturday, and by Monday morning at 9am DH got the call at work.)  Prior to her moving out, there was LOTs of campaigning by BM -- gifts, weekend trips, and lots of attention.  And somehow, magically, step dad's alcoholism and drunk driving with SD in the car was no longer going to be a problem for her.  ("Poof" all fixed!.)

DH told SD that if she wanted to have a relationship with him , he wanted an apology to our family for using us in her game with her Mother.  (Along with an apology for treating us like crap while she lived with us, which is a whole 'nother story.) She is adamant that she's done nothing wrong and refuses to acknowlege her part in any of it.  To be honest, we have grown to hate SD and her mother at this point, and it seems that the relationship is not reconcilable.  I know that's terrible to say, and it's also terrible to feel that way.  But my reason for posting this is to say that this didn't happen overnight, it took 15 years for all of us to run this relationship off into the ditch.  For those of you with younger stepkids, follow the advice in the original Dipper thread (advice I never had until it was too late), and set a good foundation now so that something like this doesn't happen.

If SD were to contact either one of us and speak to us with anything other than an abusive, hostile tone, our hearts would open up to her immediately.  But that's not likely to happen anytime soon.  She's been told (programmed, really) by BM for years that she's a perfect little angel and Dad's just a big jerk who only cares about his "new" family.

And one more thing... I've come to the conclusion through all of this that children should NEVER be given the option of choosing where they want to live.  They simply are not wise enough to make that decision for themselves, and it's best left up to the courts.  Children will always pick the parent who gives them the material stuff they want, because living for today is the nature of being a child.  My SD was 16 years old, and STILL was not capable of choosing what's best for her, so in my opinion there's no way that a 12 year old can do it.  We made SD do her homework (GPA went from a 2.1 up to a 3.6 while we had her...).  We made her eat a vegetable or two.  (OK, didn't "make" her, but we put them in front of her at dinner every night...) We didn't let her sleep on the couch in her clothes with the TV on all night every night.  (She fought us HARD on that one.)  We took things away, like internet usage, whenever her grades started slipping.  Of COURSE she wanted to move back to Moms!!!  Mom's not a parent, Mom's a best friend.  (A best friend that consistently chooses a drunk husband over her SD, but a best friend nonetheless.)

Anyway... Dipper, I totally sympathize with you and can relate to your story.  As you can see, I could go on all day LOLOL!!!  Sorry for this being so long, but thanks for letting me vent.

Best Regards,
Hazel

I just read the thread last night, and it's still on my mind this morning.

I'm not trying to be corny or anything, but that thread changed me.  I became a step mother 15 years ago, when SD was nearly 4 years old.  There was nobody to tell me "how" to do it.  I didn't even have any children of my own yet.  I was 25, self absorbed, and extremely naive.  I had no stepmothers in my life to reference or to gain understanding from.  Actually, I don't even know if there were any books out on the subject at that time!  (Not that I'd have read one... Being a stepmother was just something you just simply "became".  Nobody discussed the complicated dynamics.)

With the antics of BM and child, (eerily similar to those referenced by all of you) it didn't take long for me to label SD (in my own mind, not out loud) as a nasty brat.  SD was very clear that she did not want a deeper relationship with me, so I left it at that and merely (politely and cordially) tolerated her.  I am so regretful now that I didn't have the support or the understanding I needed, via boards like this and people like you all.

This thread has helped me to understand where it all went wrong.  Kboed, especially your statements regarding the child having to please the CP that they live with!!!  You are so right about that and everything else.  Years later, BM has shaped SD into a carbon copy replica of her, and our relationship ranges from non existent to horrific.  This happened, in part, because I was so uninformed and gave up so long ago...

It's a lot to think about.

:-(

Best Regards,
Hazel

It's a good article, but I notice that they leave out the issue of "child support"...

Shouldn't one of the rules be:  Don't gouge your ex for child support simply because he remarried after you kicked him to the curb?

Hi,  

I'm new here, and I haven't read the other replies yet, so I appologize if I am redundant...

But hell YES, stress can cause this condition, and any doctor in the world will support that!!!  It makes me absolutely sick to think of that little girl lying in a hospital bed with her mother throwing a tantrum in front of her.  If that doesn't tear a child up from the inside out, I don't know what would.

I am very very sorry that you are going through this with this "woman".

Best Regards,
Hazel

We all need to help each other, and I agree that this is the best site around for real, solid advice.  On so many other sites, all you can get are people's opinions, which is fine, but not always that realistic or helpful.  Not to mention that on most other sites people will flame you from here to the moon before they decide whether or not you're "worth" helping.  :-(

DH's CS/custody dilemma's are pretty much over, because SD is 18 now, but I try to share whatever info I've gained (the hard way) over the years  to help others.  (Besides, at this point I need all the good karma I can get my hands on...lollollol)  ;-)

You are absolutely right.

I would also add this:  Don't assume that every attorney knows the law.  The law is ever changing.  Different ways of thinking come into and go out of style quickly.  So much information (I'd say as much as 90%) comes from studying case law, and some attorneys simply don't take the time to do that.  This leads me to point #2:  Don't assume that all attorneys have the same work ethic.  Like the general population, some attorneys are hard workers, others are slackers.

We're going through the "college support" fight.  The first attorney DH talked to basically told him not to get into a pissing match and to give her whatever she wanted.  (You see, attorneys get their money no matter what happens to you.)  The second attorney presented an entirely different story.  As a result, we are now at a reasonable amount of educational support that is 1/5 (!) of what BM was demanding at the outset.  Had we gone with attorney #1, we'd be paying AT LEAST double that for the next 2 to 4 years, which would total a difference of approximately $12,000!  (And, thus far we've had only one consultation with attorney #2 at a cost of $75.00 and were able to take it ourselves from there.)  Consider the long run when looking at attorney fees.  Higher priced attorneys are not necessarity better.  Attorneys who know the law are the only ones who are better!  If an attorney who knows the law charges more, then you'd be doing yourself a favor to pay it because it will most likely save you money in the long run.

Lastly, do your own homework on your state statutes and case law so that you go into the attorney's office well informed on the facts.  (The reason we didn't listen to the first attorney isn't because he didn't tell us what we wanted to hear, it's because his advice was not consistent with pertinent case law that we had studied prior to seeing him.) If you speak with an attorney who doesn't appear to be aware of recent appelate court decisions, move on to another.  It will do you no good to have to spoon feed him the facts on your dime.

Attorneys are the same as any other profession - there are good ones and bad ones, and sometimes it's hard to tell the difference until it's too late.  If you do a lot of your own research, it truly helps!!!

Good Luck!!!!

Thanks for that info.  There's no court order as of yet, we're still in the negotiating stage.  College will start in the Fall of '05.  Do community colleges usually have an Attorney for Students as well?

I really appreciate your advice!

Thanks.  It actually was our attorney who's told us this.  Opinions vary  greatly between judges, from what I understand.

It's very hard to get info on this topic, because it's all changing very rapidly and there are no hard and fast rules.  It's quite frustrating!

:)