Messages

Note:  Also posted to Soc....

In addition to seeking legal advice/insight, I would to hear any views or experiences from folks who may have been in a similar situation to what I'm describing below.....

My DH is father of 3 children who live in Texas with BM. Court docs finalized in Texas. We live in Canada.

Between June 2004 until Sept 2004, my DH was laid off and got behind in CS ($650/month). On October 1, 2004, he started paying again, due to securing much lower paying job. In January 2005, we went to Texas to finalized negotiations for custody of oldest son (14 years old), due to problems he was having at school and Mom's environment. In hallways, we negotiated a deal with BM's attorney (BM didn't show up - just gave attorney instructions). Temp custody to DH of only the oldest child was agreed to, and CS was reduced to $200/month (since younger 2 ss remained with BM). The amount of $1k was paid on the spot for owed child support, and remainder was ordered to be paid over a 6 month period.

Because of the fact that the negotiations happened in the hallway, final document was handwritten. But judge signed it. We obtained copy. Our attorney has the original. He told us that a new/typed version would have to be drawn up and filed in court before the OAG will change the amount owing in the CSE system. Our attorney draws up 2 documents - one outlining contempt on CS and payback schedule, the other re the temp custody.

Fast forward to April 2005. The two parties cannot come to terms on the words in the temp custody document (issues about medical expenses). The two lawyers go to court. What we hear back from our attorney's office is that a couple of changes are required and that it will be done right away.. Our attorney assures us that it will be a simple matter to update the OAG.

My DH finished paying back owed CS at the end of June 2005. We call attorney's office to ask for a copy of finalized court orders. Nothing has been done. We check the OAG CS site and find that the original $650 CS court order (and interest on it) is still ticking away, despite the fact that my DH has complied with all CS court orders requirements since October 2004.

In August, we call attorney's office and assistant tells us that our attorney has talked to the other attorney. Both sides agree that it is time to make the temp order permanent (since Mom has stated that she believes oldest child is doing better with us). OAG site is incorrectly showing an outstanding balance of $4k (due to fact that they have no official notice of the initial $1k paid in January, and the difference between old CS order and new CS order). Attorney's assistant says that for some unknown reason, docs never got filed in court, but "not to worry".

Now our attorney doesn't want to bother wasting time finalizing the temp order - he thinks he can wrap up permanent order very quickly. Being unable to speak to attorney directly, we ask the assistant to separate the CS document from the temp or permanent custody order, and get that filed right away. We even went so far as to say (by email), that the temp/permanent custody order is NOT a priority to us, since as far as the OAG is concerned, DH is 'in arrears' to almost the tune of $5K. We informed the attorney's office about the fact that my DH has the intention of going to visit the other two kids in Texas, in the Fall. He could potentially, get stopped at the border, as he is an American citizen and carries an US passport. To date, the OAG has not contacted us re this amount, even though they were sending letters, during the period of Jun -Oct 2004, showing outstanding balance.

The message we got back is 'not to worry' and that our attorney will be able to wrap everything up very quickly (2 weeks). We aren't as convinced, since negotiating with the other parties has typically gone as smoothly as crunchy peanut butter. So, my questions are as follows:

Does anyone have ideas of actions can we take to make our issue a priority with the attorney, given that we live so far away and can't exactly rush off to court to file anything ourselves? For example, is there some kind of attorney codes of practice or something like that, that we can refer to?

Should we try to explain the situation to the OAG ourselves or will that interfere with what our attorney is (or is not) doing? Given that the OAG isn't bugging us right now, maybe they somehow know about the arrangement, they just can't officially change the CS system, until the finalized docs are filed in court).  The point being, should we let sleeping dogs lie?

Should my DH get pulled over/hauled off at the border and falsely charged with owing CS, what actions or steps should we take to clarify the situation and to hold the appropriate parties responsible?

Thanks in advance, for all your views.

Kids and BM/step-dad live in Tx, Tx has jurisdiction.  

My step-kids are here for the holidays.   There has been a lot of acrimony between BD and BM over their kids.  The kids have told us things about what is going on in their house, which includes physical and emotional abuse.  We've contacted the authorities about the statements that the kids have made, but when the investigators talk to BM, she tells them that BD is only trying to cause problems for her and that he is lying.  Kids tell the authorities that everything is 'fine' because, according to them, Mom has threatened them that if they tell anyone what is going on in the house, they will be in huge trouble (and other intimidation tactics).

To a large extent, BD and I have tried to accept that there is little that we can do about the situation, and to the extent possible, accept what we can and cannot change.  The school isn't reporting anything specific (other than behaviour and grade problems - which is enough), but definitely, they are not noting any signs of physical abuse.  We have wondered if the kids are just trying to play off one parent off the other.  Their mom monitors their calls with us, so they can't say much on the phone.  But now that they are here in our house, without Mom hanging over them, they just can't stop talking about However, the reports of abusive behaviors just keep coming from them.  We've tried changing the conversation, but it seems like they just can't wait to talk about it again.

In light of all of this, I'm thinking about video-taping the kids while they are talking about this.  I'm torn for a few reasons - one of which is what impact it will have on the kids.  Another, is of course, the legal implications.  

I would like the kids to repeat, on video, some of the things that they have already said, but I'm worried that by asking specific questions about specific statements, it will look like I'm leading them on.

So, I was hoping you could at least help me sort out my questions pertaining to the legal issues/implications in my head, to help make the decision of whether or not this should be pursued.

1.  Do you think that this kind of video tape would have any legal value in court?
2.  Do you have any specific tips or suggestions to give to try to keep this as 'clean' and above-board as possible?
3.  Should we ask for a third-party to ask the questions, or would it be ok for me, as step-mom, to 'interview' the questions.  
4.  Any other tips/issues to consider?

Thank you in advance.  I'm also going to post on another board, to see if folks can help me sort out the non-legal debates rolling around in my head.  

Hi Soc,

My DH is father of 3 children who live in Texas with BM.  Court docs finalized in Texas.  We live in Canada.  Because our problem relates to our working relationship with our attorney in Texas (as opposed to the BM or courts themselves), it would be relevant to tell you that I am personally listed on the contract with our attorney (to address your point about not posting questions about a third party).  

Between June 2004 until Sept 2004, my DH was laid off and got behind in CS ($650/month).  On October 1, 2004, he started paying again, due to securing much lower paying job.  In January 2005, we went to Texas to finalized negotiations for custody of oldest son (14 years old), due to problems he was having at school and Mom's environment.  In hallways, we negotiated a deal with BM's attorney (BM didn't show up - just gave attorney instructions).  Temp custody was agreed to, and CS was reduced to $200/month.  The amount of $1k was paid on the spot for owed child support, and remainder was ordered to be paid over a 6 month period.

Because of the fact that the negotiations happened in the hallway, final document was handwritten.  But judge signed it.  We obtained copy.  Our attorney has the original. He told us that a new/typed version would have to be drawn up and filed in court before the OAG will change the amount owing in the CSE system.  Our attorney draws up 2 documents - one outlining contempt on CS and payback schedule, the other re the temp custody.  

Fast forward to April 2005.  The two parties cannot come to terms on the words in the temp custody document.  The two lawyers go to court.  What we hear back from our attorney's office is that a couple of changes are required and that it will be done right away..   Our attorney assures us that it will be a simple matter to update the OAG.

My DH finished paying back owed CS at the end of June.  We call attorney's office to ask for a copy of finalized court orders.  Nothing has been done.  We check the OAG CS site and find that the original $650 CS court order, is still ticking away, despite the fact that my DH has complied with all CS court orders requirements since October 2004.  

In August, we call attorney's office and assistant tells us that our attorney has talked to the other attorney.  Both sides agree that it is time to make the temp order permanent (since Mom has stated that she believes oldest child is doing better with us).  OAG site is incorrectly showing an outstanding balance of $4k (due to fact that they have no official notice of the initial $1k paid in January, and the difference between old CS order and new CS order).  Attorney's assistant says that for some unknown reason, docs never got filed in court, but "not to worry".

Now our attorney doesn't want to bother wasting time finalizing the temp order - he thinks he can wrap up permanent order very quickly.  Being unable to speak to attorney directly, we ask the assistant to separate the CS document from the temp or permanent custody order, and get that filed right away.  We even went so far as to say (by email), that the temp/permanent custody order is NOT a priority to us, since as far as the OAG is concerned, DH is 'in arrears' to almost the tune of $5K.  We informed the attorney's office about the fact that my DH has the intention of going to visit the other two kids in Texas, in the Fall.  He could potentially, get stopped at the border, as he is an American citizen and carries an US passport.  To date, the OAG has not contacted us re this amount, even though they were sending letters, during the period of Jun -Oct 2004,  showing outstanding balance.

The message we got back is 'not to worry' and that our attorney will be able to wrap everything up very quickly (2 weeks).  We aren't as convinced, since negotiating with the other parties has typically gone as smoothly as crunchy peanut butter.   So, our questions are as follows:

1.  What actions can we (because I am listed on the contract with the attorney) take to make our issue a priority with the attorney, given that we live so far away and can't exactly rush off to court to file anything ourselves?  For example, is there some kind of attorney codes of practice or something like that, that we can refer to?

2.  Should we try to explain the situation to the OAG ourselves or will that interfere with what our attorney is (or is not) doing?  Given that the OAG isn't bugging us right now, maybe they somehow know about the arrangement, they just can't officially change the CS system, until the finalized docs are filed in court).

3.  Should my DH get pulled over/hauled off at the border and falsely charged with owing CS, what actions or steps should we take to clarify the situation and to hold the appropriate parties responsible?

I hope I have complied with the mandatory posting guidelines.

Thanks

Hi Soc,

My DH is father of 3 children who live in Texas with BM.  Court docs finalized in Texas.  We live in Canada.  Because our problem relates to our working relationship with our attorney in Texas (as opposed to the BM or courts themselves), it would be relevant to tell you that I am personally listed on the contract with our attorney (to address your point about not posting questions about a third party).  

Between June 2004 until Sept 2004, my DH was laid off and got behind in CS ($650/month).  On October 1, 2004, he started paying again, due to securing much lower paying job.  In January 2005, we went to Texas to finalized negotiations for custody of oldest son (14 years old), due to problems he was having at school and Mom's environment.  In hallways, we negotiated a deal with BM's attorney (BM didn't show up - just gave attorney instructions).  Temp custody was agreed to, and CS was reduced to $200/month.  The amount of $1k was paid on the spot for owed child support, and remainder was ordered to be paid over a 6 month period.

Because of the fact that the negotiations happened in the hallway, final document was handwritten.  But judge signed it.  We obtained copy.  Our attorney has the original. He told us that a new/typed version would have to be drawn up and filed in court before the OAG will change the amount owing in the CSE system.  Our attorney draws up 2 documents - one outlining contempt on CS and payback schedule, the other re the temp custody.  

Fast forward to April 2005.  The two parties cannot come to terms on the words in the temp custody document.  The two lawyers go to court.  What we hear back from our attorney's office is that a couple of changes are required and that it will be done right away..   Our attorney assures us that it will be a simple matter to update the OAG.

My DH finished paying back owed CS at the end of June.  We call attorney's office to ask for a copy of finalized court orders.  Nothing has been done.  We check the OAG CS site and find that the original $650 CS court order, is still ticking away, despite the fact that my DH has complied with all CS court orders requirements since October 2004.  

In August, we call attorney's office and assistant tells us that our attorney has talked to the other attorney.  Both sides agree that it is time to make the temp order permanent (since Mom has stated that she believes oldest child is doing better with us).  OAG site is incorrectly showing an outstanding balance of $4k (due to fact that they have no official notice of the initial $1k paid in January, and the difference between old CS order and new CS order).  Attorney's assistant says that for some unknown reason, docs never got filed in court, but "not to worry".

Now our attorney doesn't want to bother wasting time finalizing the temp order - he thinks he can wrap up permanent order very quickly.  Being unable to speak to attorney directly, we ask the assistant to separate the CS document from the temp or permanent custody order, and get that filed right away.  We even went so far as to say (by email), that the temp/permanent custody order is NOT a priority to us, since as far as the OAG is concerned, DH is 'in arrears' to almost the tune of $5K.  We informed the attorney's office about the fact that my DH has the intention of going to visit the other two kids in Texas, in the Fall.  He could potentially, get stopped at the border, as he is an American citizen and carries an US passport.  To date, the OAG has not contacted us re this amount, even though they were sending letters, during the period of Jun -Oct 2004,  showing outstanding balance.

The message we got back is 'not to worry' and that our attorney will be able to wrap everything up very quickly (2 weeks).  We aren't as convinced, since negotiating with the other parties has typically gone as smoothly as crunchy peanut butter.   So, our questions are as follows:

1.  What actions can we (because I am listed on the contract with the attorney) take to make our issue a priority with the attorney, given that we live so far away and can't exactly rush off to court to file anything ourselves?  For example, is there some kind of attorney codes of practice or something like that, that we can refer to?

2.  Should we try to explain the situation to the OAG ourselves or will that interfere with what our attorney is (or is not) doing?  Given that the OAG isn't bugging us right now, maybe they somehow know about the arrangement, they just can't officially change the CS system, until the finalized docs are filed in court).

3.  Should my DH get pulled over/hauled off at the border and falsely charged with owing CS, what actions or steps should we take to clarify the situation and to hold the appropriate parties responsible?

I hope I have complied with the mandatory posting guidelines.

Thanks

Hi Soc,

I'm more on an observer than a participator on this form.  Lately, I've note that there have been many questions about determining jurisidiction of cases.    This issue is really important to our situation.

In January, my DH obtained temp custody of his oldest son because he was having severe problems.  BM and his/her three kids were living in Tx.  Court order and parenting plan were originally ordered in Texas.  

We obtained temp custody of the oldest SS, starting Nov 6th/04, with an agreed upon court order, with little detail included.  BM did not ask for specified visitation time with SS.  She assumed that she could demand it later (which she did).  And oh yea, she didn't even show up to the mediation show prior to the court date.  

So, we got SS out of tx and he has been living with us for over 10 months now.  My SS has some severe psychological and physical issues that we are working to iron out.  We've noted that the second SS is starting to demonstrate the same problems.  We've received early indications that BM and SF do not feel that they can handle the problems with YSS, so it is quite likely that we will get custody of the YSS, when things get out of control.

Our attorney has spoken to us about needing to finalize this temp order for the OSS.  At this point, we aren't so keen about finalizing the court order in TX, because we believe that the courts in our jurisdiction should be responsible since we are all members of the UCCJJEA or whatever it is properly called.  The legal costs, and travel costs, for going to court in TX are really getting to us.  As well, we've been through so much before this, we are pretty tired of the legal problems, and we would like to take a break.  The temp agreement, as it stands now, CAN suffice, if necessary.  

Once we've gotten the OSS back on the right track, we would like to try to get custody of YSS, so we can begin work with him.  Early indications state that BM and her husband agree this will eventualy come too.

However, all of this could be in jeopardy, if BM realizes that after 6 months, she would be required to come to our jurisdiction in order to deal with any court proceedings, she will ABSOLUTELY refuse to let us work with YSS.  

So, our strategy was to try and coast along, until it was time to transfer YSS to our house  Six months after that, we planned to file in our local courts, to make the situations permanent.

Unfortunately, because of the costs involved, we were not able to hire an attorney who is Board specialized.  He doesn't do badly for us, but sometimes, I think that I end up playing a bigger role in the strategizing end, (if that really is a word).  When I brought up the 6 month jurisdiction rule, he said that he had never heard of it.  I found that surprising, but then maybe that's why we are advised to seek out Board certified lawyers.

1.  Can you give me some kind of wording and phrasing, in lawyer talk, that I could send to him, to point this fine gentle in the right direction and to help him understand this jurisidictional question?

2.  If we agreed to proceed with finalizing this agreement in TX courts, would we be establishing a 'permanent' precedent that would require us to resolve all future disputes in Texas?

Got to warn you Soc, I might have further questions down the line; this may only be the beginning!

Thanks for your help

The 2 kids (who don't live with us) are returning to their mom's house on Jan 3rd.  BTW, Mom decided she wanted to visit OSS, during our visit with the younger two.  So, she is flying up to spend the last week with their older brother.  Didn't seem to matter that this would mean that the three kids wouldn't be together.  Her response to kids was to tell dad that they want to go spend time with their mom and brother in the hotel downtown (even though Mom wouldn't allow dad visitation for almost a year).

In answer to your questions, the two younger kids are 11 and 9 - but very, very immature 11 and 9.  Although I am not a doctor, they look under-developed to me.  Both of them are talking about wanting to live at Dad's house, because they don't feel 'safe' at their mom's house.  The 11 year old (boy), has been talking about wanting to be here for a while.  Mom took him aside and cried and told him that he couldn't leave her because he was her favorite.  The 11 year old knows that according to Tx courts, he will have a say on where he wants to live when he is 12.  But, Mom will argue that he is developmentally incapable of making those decisions because of the autism spectrum thing, even though she is ignoring court-ordered treatment for him.

The 9 year old (girl), will be ten in early January.  I have to admit that I don't necessarily trust her word entirely - partly because she is mom's shadow (when they are getting along).  Plus, she has learned what to say to prompt gifts and toys, and she has the 'cute' thing down pat.  I believe deep under all the confusion, she is a lovely little girl, but she could very quickly go down the wrong road, as she gets older, if for no other reason but to rebel against her mom.  She outright calls her mom a liar (at age 9!!!)  Both kids have told us several times that they don't want to go back.    

In all fairness, I am asking myself if the kids are telling us that they want to stay because they think it will please us........ (it has happened in the past).  But when I match that up to the stories they tell about what goes on, I don't think they are lying (perhaps exaggerating a bit, but not lying).

In answer to your question about a therapist, we have taken the kids to see a therapist one summer - with mom's permission (joint legal custody).  However, she didn't like the diagnosis and then later claimed that she was never consulted and then tried to sue the therapist.  Luckily, we had warned the therapist (psychologist) to expect this kind of thing.  Initially, we think psychologist thought we were a bit extreme in our caution (and that showed up in the final report).  But after the BM put her though h*ll, the therapist actually apologized for not taking us seriously.  But the end of it is that the therapist has refused to see us again because she just doesn't want the headache of dealing with BM, particularly since we aren't on-going clients.  

I do have a friend/colleague who is a trained conflict-resolution professional in the public service.  She is very familiar with our situation.  She might be willing to do the video interview - although I am somewhat reluctant to ask her to get involved in all of this in the middle of Christmas.  

Anyways, a long response to your questions.  Thanks for your patience.

I posted a message with Soc, asking about the legal issues around the idea of video taping my step-kids talking about what goes on at Mom's house.  I'm torn between asking the kids to repeat what they've already said on video, in the hopes of having proof of what the kids are saying, versus the guilt I would feel about having put them though something like that.  I would like to hear some views about this situation, but before you respond, here's a few of the facts........

Kids live in Tx with mom and step-dad.  Oldest brother live with us, outside of Tx.  Eldest has been asking to live with us for years.  He started having a lot of problems at home and at school, and finally the school filed a report of suspected emotional abuse at home.  In return for the removal of any financial obligation/responsibility, BM agreed to let the eldest come live with us.

Over the years, all three of the kids have been telling us stories about how their mom and step-dad hit them, call them stupid and ignore their medical and emotional requirements.  One of the kids is on the autism spectrum, which mean he has special needs, which aren't being addressed.    When my husband (their dad) talked to mom about it, she claimed the kids were lying.  When we reported these stories to the CFS authorities, mom managed to convince the investigator that dad was just trying to 'get back at mom'.   when the kids were interviewed, mom wouldn't let them be interviewed alone.  So the investigators went to their schools.  The reports say that one child reported goings on, but the other didn't.  The investigation was closed as 'inconclusive'.  Mom is the "best liar around' (according to the kids), so she is dangerous enough to know what to say to people to sound like a great mom, but once the spotlight is off, it is business as usual.

The kids from Tx are here for the holidays.  The day after their arrival, they started talking about all these horrible stories of what goes on in their house.  However, this time, they have also been talking about how their mom has told them that they are NEVER to talk to ANYONE, outside their house, about what goes on in their house.  The kids are terrified that their mom will find out that they told us about it.  Yet, the kids are looking to us (and in particular, me - SM) for help.

So, I'm thinking about video taping some conversations with the kids, to at least get it on tape.  I'm torn though.  Undertaking this will require me to get the kids to repeat the stories that they have already told me.  How can I get that without appearing as if I am 'leading' them?  Also, I'm feeling guilty about even asking the kids to participate in such an awful exercise.  These kids shouldn't have to think and worry about the things that they are .  But everything we have tried to date hasn't worked out.  I don't know if we would even ever use the tape, but I just feel this need to capture these moments now, because I don't know what is coming down the road.

We don't have the money for a full-scale legal battle and there aren't many options left.

So, with that long-winded explanation, I welcome your feedback (positive or negative)

Thanks in advance