Messages

"You mentioned that revoking mom's rights was in the works....Did you file paperwork with the courts to get the process started?"

Lawyer had just finished writing up the papers.

"I also think that Grandma -- attempting to use the school to gain access to the children is a NORMAL response to her situation of being denied access to her grandchildren.  That's a piece of advice we give FATHER's who are denied access to their children -- go to the public stuff that the school has.  Mom can't deny your/Father's right to see the children there."

She wasn't trying to go to any school events, she was trying to manipulate people in a position at the school to try and access the children any way she could.

"I also think that letting a child play with a gun.....vs. your opinion of not having a gun is a matter of parenting choices."

She's not their parent.

"I think that you should set a time and place of your choice and tell Grandma that you'll be taking the kids out for dinner at McDonald's at XYZ and set ground rules in that notification.  SIT at the same table, and leave if she breaks your rules."

So if she breaks the rules... then what? Pull the children out of there mid-meal and try to explain it away? I can tell you right now, it doesn't matter if I am standing there or not... she doesn't realize what she says is wrong, she never has. Hence why even now I can't have a conversation with her without it turning into a power play for her. I will not put my children through it again.

"Grandma -- like her or not -- probably has tons of rights now that MOM has passed away."

As of 2005, Grandparent Rights were deemed unconstitutional by the Washington Supreme Court. In 2006 efforts to pass Grandparent Rights were denied. It doesn't matter in the case of the death of a parent. In some cases, to be frank, the law really does suck for those Grandparents clearly trying to be an advocate for their Grandchildren. But in the case of this particular Grandmother, she dug that hole deep long ago with her behavior She had many, MANY instances were she could have amended her behavior due to the parents' wishes. But she did not; she figured she would always have access to them through their mother. You would think her willingness to conform would have increased ten fold after her access is denied, but that isn't the case.

"So by your definition, keeping the children away from the other side of the family, TOTALLY, is appropriate for them to heal from this?"

For the 3 weeks that we asked for immediately following their mother's death, yes, I felt that was appropriate. The time applied to all family, not just her side.

"Think supervised time with the Grandma.....she's obviously interested, and she's bad mouthed you in the past."

And she would in future as well. Of course she's interested, she wants control. So then what? The children start having contact again and don't understand it when they suddenly can't see her again because of her mouth or behavior? It seems that supervised would be in the best interests of Grandma, considering that only my oldest has any care to see her. Which after talking to him, find out that when he "misses" his grandma, he seems to miss the computer, xbox, BB gun, playstation, wi, and all the toys he doesn't have at home. Grandma wasn't mentioned in lieu of all these possessions.


"You married her for a reason.....or had children with her.  Share those good memories."

Married her,yes, but having children is what showed her true colors. She would go out all weekend, ignore my phone calls for her to come home. Suddenly it wasn't all about her, and her weekends weren't hers alone anymore. That was her undoing, and the reason she ultimately left. She couldn't do what she wanted anymore.

"If Mom was that bad....then you should have had her parental rights revoked, or that should have been supervised, etc....  But that didn't happen, or did it?"

It was in the works, death has a way of finalizing things. Otherwise she would have had her rights revoked within a year if all had worked out.

"Sorry.....for the disagreement... I'm all for protecting the children, but.....really encouraging you to think again about your decision."

Not a problem, if there weren't disagreements there wouldn't be much need for the forums.

"I just don't think you're justified totally cutting her off like that."

What more justification do I need? Parental alienation, witness to domestic abuse, child endangerment, child kidnapping, harassment, lack of respect etc.

So, despite the fact that she doesn't respect us as the parents nor has enough sense to keep her biased opinions to herself, we should reward her with supervised visitation? To what end? I can only see this going one way, because she's not about to change the way she has been for the last 40+ years of her life. I see us back in this predicament... the children being hurt worse, and her harrassment increasing ten fold.

Thank you all for your advice, trust me, this decision has not been easy.

Mixedbag, I value the advice you've been giving, not just here, but in previous topics, but I couldn't see even supervised visitation being an option.

Perhaps, my timeline was not very accurate with the events of the memorial service problems. For the 3 weeks after their mother's death (before the service) I asked the family for a time of healing for the children. A time for them to reflect on what had happened, uphold their normal routine and help them through any questions they may have. In other words, we told them to let them be and give them a few weeks time apart to grieve in their own way. We did not get that time. The grandmother called constantly, threatening, then pleading, then demanding to see the children. She sent her brother to our house on her behalf a week after their mother's passing with a "visitation schedule" she had written up which explained the weekends she would have them.

We have never tried to erase the children's mother from their lives, they speak of her on occasion. But I cannot give them memories of her when she did not choose to use her time on earth to spend with them. I understand the importance of them remembering her, whatever parent she might have been.

As far as erasing the mother's family from their lives... they saw a great aunt on that side once about a month ago. None of the other relatives ever had much to do with the children, their mother was not on good terms with a majority of the family and so would not take them to visit with certain family members. The others have not cared to call or shown any intent to want to visit.

As for my wife's family, they have been in the children's lives since before they can remember. She came into their lives when my youngest was 16 months and my oldest was 3 years old. So her family didn't just suddenly appear in their lives when their mother died.

The only time she actually had the notion to take me to court was a few years ago when she wanted to gain custody of the children when her alimony had ceased, so she could collect child support. Her sister called me explaining her intent to take me to court about this, after a long conversation she had had with her on the subject. Needless to say, her family squashed that thought out of her head before she could pursue it further.

Their grandma could not respect either of their parents (mother or father) when their mother was alive, what makes you think she is suddenly going to change her tune now that there is absolutely no parent to hold her back?

A new development in this whole drama... yesterday when my wife arrived at the children's school to pick up a book order we had placed previously; their Grandma was parked in the second row of cars facing the school. Thank God the children go to YMCA after school and therefore would not be out front for parent pick up. I don't think she recognized my wife's car, but she called us late last night accusing us of keeping the children away from her.

Guilty as charged.

I am having a real hard time agreeing with this approach.... 

Particularly when I read how the step moms family are there and that there fore the children still have grandparents...
On my phone so I can't quote you exactly.

If grandma has been a pain......then do something supervised.

There is no situation involving this woman that will end well for the children.

Parental Alienation - we tell her to stop, she does it through other family members.

Buys my son a gun, I say I don't want him near a weapon, she tells my son to keep it a secret and not tell me.

Picks my son up from school, when they mistakenly call her for parent pick up when he was supposed to go to YMCA after school care. I call her to tell her to bring him home, she refuses and drops him off at 9:25pm when I finally threaten to call the cops.

Has the children call her boyfriend, "father" when they are with her.

BTW, this woman doesn't let the children call her grandma, they have to call her Mema. She doesn't want people to think she is old enough to be a grandma.

Best interests of the child... not right now.

Well if the mother is only working 40 weeks out of the year it might be considered by some courts as being intentionally underemployed. In other words, she could find a job that is available all year round or one with better pay, but she chooses a job that only pays 9 months out of the year. In cases like that, that parent's income is often imputed on child support papers, rather than calculated from the actual amount the parent receives.

If it is just the one child with questions, take him out for dinner alone and talk to him. Ask him if he has any questions about mom or grandma, that his teacher told you that he was talking about her and that is OKAY to talk to you too. Without too much details, you can come up with a reason he is not seeing his grandma anymore. Did she take you to court or just threaten? You could say a judge says you guys need to stay with us for a while but you still have two other grandparents and xx wants you to sleepover sometimes too...
Ask him where this came from, did teacher read a book about grandparents? Maybe at a school party a grandparent came in and reminded child? Is teacher asking him? Do not grill him but have a conversation.

Is the child in school counseling? I am not a big fan of in school counseling. They bring things up, listen to other kids issues in the group, then have to go back and focus.

We had actually received a phone call from the school social worker. He had mentioned that he had spoken to our son a few times before his mother's death to help him confront it. And he passes him in the hall every day on his way to class. He mentioned on the phone that our son had told a couple different instructors that he misses his grandmother. He then said we should try and start a line of communication for him with his grandmother.After asking what brought this about, the social worker said he knew things had been tough since all the problems with the memorial service. I stopped him at that moment and asked where he had heard that from. We have not told anyone about the drama of the memorial service. We soon realized that the grandmother had also called the school. We reiterated to the school that under no circumstances should their grandmother be allowed to show up at their school or ask to see either of them. He confided that the school would never allow such things.

We asked him if he had continued to see our son for counseling, he denied, but says his door is always opened if a child needs him. He made us sound like we were terrible parents for keeping our son from his grandmother.

Thank you all the the advice.

The children did not attend the memorial service. The grandmother would not allow me to come, even to be there for the children. And I would never forgive myself if they had gone with her and came back distraught or with questions I was unable to answer. I was married to their mother for 7 years, and whatever happened in the aftermath, their grandmother would not even respect my need for closure, let alone the need for the children to have their parent with them. The memorial service was all about the grandmother, she wanted to control the situation as always. She desperately tried to step in and be their other parent.

As for any chance of them seeing her... through everything I have had to deal with in this long battle with the other family I have maintained that the choices I make for my children are based on "the best interests of the children". After their mother's passing, my wife and I deliberated on the outcome of the years of abuse the children had to endure on behalf of their grandmother and her family. We originally settled for a time of healing followed by a slow introduction back into contact with their grandmother. She refused to leave us alone and give the healing time the children needed, let alone threatened us with court action, if we did not give her one weekend a month with her. When all was said and done, we felt that this was not what the children needed in their lives.

Two weeks after the memorial service, we asked the family if she had a memorial stone at the local cemetery, but they explained they would only tell us if they could have the children for the weekend. They treated this as a game of give and take, and cared nothing for what the children felt.

As for Grandparent Right's in Washington State... there are none. She has no legal right to them, although she has tried every other tactic to get what she wants, the state would not accept any claim she has. Not to mention the 3 years of documentation we have, many of which show her parental alienation, child endangerment and child abuse in full color. She's only after what she wants, not what is best for the children, as has shown over the years of dealing with her.

They have two sets of grandparents in their lives, my parents and my wife's parents. Both treat them with respect and as grandparents should, with a little bit of spoiling on the side. The only time that my 7 year old seems to express missing his grandmother is at school. I really want to be able to sit down with him and let him ask the questions he needs to ask and get answers that will ease his mind. But I don't know how to go about this.

Hello there,

Many of you know my back story... if you read through my old posts you will get a clear picture of the situation at hand.

To sum it all up, I am a custodial father of my two sons, age 5 & 7. Their mother died in May 2011 from metastatic sarcoma. She had left the family when the children  were 1 & 3 years old, and since then it had been a terrible ordeal anytime our family had dealings with her. She was hardly in their lives during her life... she abused her body and in the end refused to have the life saving surgery to remove the tumor that had been growing in her foot.

When she did have visitation with the children she would often pawn them off on her mother, the children's grandmother. She was an older version of their mother and talked negatively about myself and the children's step mother in the children's presence. She would spoil them rotten. Ultimately, the children loved going over to her house, because it meant no rules, junk food and video games all day. They would come home saying they "didn't like daddy" or that "grandma said you're a bad man" or that they wanted to live with her instead of me. They were often witness to domestic violence when they were at their grandmother's house, as she often fought with her boyfriend and the children's mother, when she was around.

When the children's mother died in May, their grandmother refused to let either myself or my wife (the children's stepmother) to come to the memorial service. She said she would pick the children up from me and return them to me after the service. I refused. Weeks went by, their grandmother pleaded with me to let her to continue to see her grandchildren. She would call constantly, leave text messages and voice mails demanding to see her grandchildren. She sent a relative to our house to talk to us about "the rules" of letting them see the children.

The children don't see that side of the family anymore. Neither of us parents, can see it in the best interests of the children. Recently, however, our 7 year old has been commenting to teachers at school that he misses his grandmother very much, but he won't speak of it at home. We have explained to him before, why his grandmother isn't around anymore, but he is taking it very hard. We don't quite know what to tell him beyond what we have already. . The children were not close to their mother, and therefore no tears were shed at her passing, but the fact that they don't see their grandmother seems to trouble them. If anyone has any thoughts or ideas, or have been in similar situations please let me know.

Thanks as always,
FF

I talked to my ex wife today... she is going to try and file for our youngest son! I told her again and again what the divorce decree says, but she is still going to try and do it!

I received my W-2 today, which I am extremely relieved about, but I realized that I was unemployed for a month and now need a W-2 for my unemployment as well. Does anyone know anyway I can access that information on the internet? Please help, I am desperate, I figured if I talked to her she would be reasonable but she is still going to try!

Thanks in advance,
~Fatherforever

So I guess my question is, do they need the consent of both parents for this activity, since neither parents are involved with him when he is in possession of the BB gun? And the person who is, is not even a relative. I am having a hard time finding any useful information for Washington state as far as parental consent in a divorce case.

Thanks again,
~Fatherforever