Messages

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>creature constantly shows my 8yr old pg-13 movies.  If I call
>and ask
>her why or anything, she'll just get angry then use it against
>me by telling baby: "Daddy won't let you watch this," or"
>Daddy won't let me show you this," or something similar to
>make me the baddy.  Baby is spending summer down there with
>her. What should I do?


We personally have the same problem... 11 year old saw Monster-in-Law at the theaters last year, which is totally against what we would have allowed her to see and frankly, against the teachings of her school and church.  We went online to a Christian review site, learned about the film, and then talked to sd about the messages that were sent in the movie and what was right and wrong.  We did the same with the Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants... many inappropriate references... when we heard that she was reading it at her mom's, I bought a copy so that we could talk about it and the choices that the characters could/should have made... and what sd should do in the same situations.

My impression of this, and I could be wrong, is that he has bought the guest passes for the pool so that he can hang out with his daughter outside of visitation... daughter goes to the pool, say, in the afternoons, so he has friends who signs him in so that he can be in her presence when she's chilling, and when she is not in direct contact with her mother.

>>and your sarcasm is noted and will be ignored.
>>
>>Mainly because it seems as if you'd rather complain here
>than
>>take action.
>>
>
>I appreciate your responses but they have not answered the
>questions about abuse of the process.
>
>I sincerely believe that causing people to return to court
>over problems that should have been forseen is a disgrace to
>everyone, especially to those they claim to protect.

Actually, she is answering your questions.  The abuse of the process is the disgrace, and it is something that each and every poster at the site has dealt with.

Judges sign unenforceable orders every day.  Sometimes it is because they expect people to behave like grownups, sometimes it is because lawyers write up bad orders, sometimes it is because they just don't care.  Judges are not mind readers, and cannot predict that someone will argue over a preposition in an order, or that a situation that was not anticipated in the original order will develop.  They have next to no statutes which actually deal with what they are to decide, and therefore are left without a policy, without a procedure.

Our orders say that ncp has phone contact w/dd two specific days a week, starting at a specific time, and states that dd must pick up telephone and talk to ncp.  Of course, there is nothing in the order saying that dd should be at home for the call, in a quiet place where her family members are not interrupting her, telling her to get off the phone, where there aren't distractions that are more fun than talking to ncp.  We've called and had them be out to dinner at Friendly's, out shopping for a new coat, at the movies with friends... The order is straightforward, but doesn't provide for cp to play games if she wants.  

Order says ncp is to have dd EOW.  So, the police know what every other weekend is?  Sure, the order says EOW, but it could be from three years ago, with mutual agreement make-up time included, so how do the police know whether the EOW is still the way it was at the signing of the order?  

Vacation time is almost always arranged between parents with given amount of notice... how do the police know what the entire path of correspondence was?  So, you've got a letter stating your intent to exercise... how do they know that you're not hiding a letter you sent that says you changed your mind?  That you request another date...?  The only way to find out is to knock on your child's door and question the cp... now you've got your kid square in the middle of a situation, the kids get the idea that cops are there to tear them away from the families, and that they are the bad guys...

Trust me, as a sm whose sd was kept from the family for 6 months on false allegations of mental (not physical) abuse, I understand how frustrating it is to go to police and not have them enforce an order that seems to be straightforward, but they are there to protect all parties, ncp, cp, and children, and it is close to impossible for them to do that when they have make value judgements on what is right and what wrong...  a police officer is there to keep the peace.

The answer to your questions is not to moan about how wrong the system is, the answer is that you need to file a motion to clarify everything that you are having problems with.  The police have told you that they cannot easily enforce what you are showing them - come back with something better.  They have told you how to help them help you and you steadfastly refuse to do it, instead arguing about how they _should_ do what you want them to...

So, you have options... file the motion, contact your legislators, and seek to improve the system.  This is what the people here have chosen to do... they do not sit on their tushes complaining about how life is unfair... while you do that, your kid, and all of our kids, suffer.

>if the CP was worried that you didn't have adequate
>supervision for the kids while you had them over summer
>visitation, would you be opposed to providing the CP with the
>name, address, and phone number of the person who would be
>looking after them while you were working?  
>
>Facts
>Single NCP parent, kids are 8 (ADHD) and 12 yr old boys that
>fight daily (with parental supervision), with no family near
>to help over the summer.

I think I'd have to agree about the qualifying answers... in a perfect world, all info should be shared between both parties...

in the real world, some CPs can be you know whats... ours says that she refuses to allow sc to come for summer visitation (2 weeks, we live three miles apart) unless she is provided verification that NCP is off from work and will be home.  This, according to her, is NCP's visitation with sc, not my (2nd wife) visitation.  

So, if you are the CP, I say, don't stress your head about it... NCP has an equal right to parent, and kids have an equal right to be parented... if the kids fight even with parental supervision, it doesn't sound like it'll make much of a difference unless NCP turns out to be the better parent...

Gram,

Yes, I think you're too biased :-).  Parenting is not just the time physically you spend in your child's presence.  It is presenting the child with the whole picture.  By spending time with his family away from the dad, the child is able to form a picture of how dad believes a family should function.  The child sees the behavior of both the "mom" and the dad in the family, how they relate to each other.  The child sees the role of children in the household, how they are treated in an every day setting and how children are expected to behavior, in the father's family.  He sees the distinctness of how the family behaves both in the presence of dad and when he is gone.  He is able to live their lifestyle, by being under their roof, regardless of whether dad was there.

My sd comes for dinner on Wednesday nights.  I pick her up, and we have about 20-30 min. before Dad gets home.  I ask about her day, what she's learned.  She prepares dinner (something she is not allowed to do at her mom's house) while I ready myself and the home for Dad's arrival.  She greets Dad when he walks in the door, learning the proper behavior for welcoming him home. For awhile, Mom argued that sd should not go with me if he is not there, because it is not my time, it is dad's time, and if dad can't be present, then it should be mom's time.  Without this time, my sd wouldn't know what it is to have a mom who actually listens to her (she has told us that her mom just says, oh, and wow, and doesn't actually make a conversation with her).  She learns about household responsibility, which she doesn't learn at home.  She learns how to be a wife and mother, definitely not something she learns at home.  She and her mom live with her mom's family, which, from what I have seen, is a model for how not to live, and if she is not exposed to life without dad at our house, she would never learn what a Christian wife does.

I want to warn you too, having read some of your posts, that you need to step out of your daughter's? situation... Sitting in a family where both sides of grandparents became way too involved in the divorce/custody, I can tell you that by sticking your nose in, you will enable your grandchild's parents to never get along or work together, because you are placing yourself as a party in the situation.

My 2 cents...

There's a difference between parenting and babysitting, and babysitting is what an NCP is reduced to in situations where the CP is allowed to make all decisions about what the child does, regardless of where the child is.  In our situation, the CP tends to wait until two days before an activity before telling the NCP that the child needs to be somewhere.  This frequently interferes with family plans... has interfered with two birthday parties and a sleepover with the child's cousins.  When a NCP has limited time and contact with the child, it is absolutely imperative that family events or NCP time be honored.  In our situation, the CP is very adament that the NCP cannot tell the CP what to do during CP's time, but in the reverse, is quite happy telling the NCP how to parent, when to parent, where to parent.  We talk so frequently about the best interests of the child, but truly, for the sake of our children's future marriages, isn't it best to not teach that a father's role is to do whatever mom says?  If NCPs constantly make accomodations to what the CP demands, the NCP teaches the child that the CP is more important than anything, and seriously skews the child's perception of a healthy marriage/parenting relationship.

Not the OP, but she said that her husband's mother had passed away, leaving the father to remarry.  Then, the father passed away as well, leaving no bio parents to the 10 year old and 16 year old.  Apparently, the bio sibling tried to step in for custody and there were some legal mistakes somewhere, and the stepmother, I would assume as a de facto parent, stepped in and assumed temporary custody.

Does that clear anything up?

Oh, to the original poster, generally using all capital letters is construed as shouting, so you probably should keep the caps lock off.

Imagine a female child who visits her father in a suburban apartment high rise apartment complex.  There are security cameras in the lobby and a doorman on duty from 9am-6pm daily.  There are laundry facilities on the first floor, adjacent to the lobby. There are 228 units in the building, and approximately 50-75 people in the building who know and are known to the child by sight, including obviously both of the doormen. At what age do you deem the child capable of riding the elevator to the lobby to do her laundry, a chore which she loves (weird child).

Riddle me Batman...

>now.. I have 2 stepchildren with 2 different bm (yes I know
>fun fun fun) both of the mothers tell the kids to keep secrets
>and when they slip, we just tell them that if its a good thing
>it shouldnt be a secret,and that there is nothing that we say
>that cant be repeated, we notice that this relieves alot of
>stress for the kids as they are not trying to keep everyones
>secrets straight.... just yesterday my dear stepson told me,
>gee your not as dumb as my grandma says you are.(bm's,mother..
>HATES dh and I(cause shes a control freak who controls every
>aspect of her daughters life and we will not allow her to
>control us or our relationship with ss)). I about fell over
>laughing, I figure kids are pretty smart and if given the
>right information as to what is right and what is wrong that
>they will  figure it out for themselves and when there older
>looking back, it wasnt dad and I who did the secret telling
>trash talking, therefore no resentment towards us.
>
>good luck

Remember though that in many families, it is not "trash talking" that we are trying to maintain our privacy on... it is everyday events that will be twisted to insinuate that there is abuse when there is none.  Just as not all CPs are evil witches, not all NCPs are abusive...

:-)