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DON'T!  DON'T GIVE UP!

She's only 12!  YOU have to be the parent, the adult here!  You KNOW your ex has probably been feeding lies into your daughter's head about you, so not only is she confused, but she was at school and may have been embarassed when summoned by the VP.  Maybe she thought it would make her look "cool" to her friends to turn down a parent- a figure of authority.  Who knows what kids at that age are really thinking?!

She's going to realize how far you drove, and how nice it was for you to bring her those presents, and she's going to feel like crap.  But I bet she's going to feel so guilty so won't even be able to pick up the phone to call and apologize.  That's why you can't give up!  You're going to have to continue on, keep trying.  
Like one of the prior responses to the original post said- what worked for them was that they never stopped showing up, and their daughter/SD finally realized how much they loved her, and that BM wasn't so innocent anymore.  You have to believe that this can happen for you too!

She's your CHILD- if you give up now, you're agreeing to FAIL.  You're giving her a reason to not want to contact you EVER again.  Because you're not giving up on the SITUATION, like you might think, you'd be giving up on HER, and that's how she'll feel.  

Scream, yell, throw some stuff around your house (privately) and/or have a good cry.  Then pick up the phone and call your daughter!

The courts didn't question her mom being there, or me- they asked who she was, she said "her mom" and they asked who I was and I only gave them my name.  I didn't say "I'm his fiance."  If my FH tried to keep her mom out, BM would DEFinitely keep me out!

I don't know if the judge will let us enroll my SS in school because BM has "sole legal" custody so she has the right to pick his school, and while her "current" address is in the same school district as ours, we heard that her fiance's house has been sold.  They've been staying at her mom's house, which is in a different district.  Since BM has physical custody right now, the school needs custody papers as proof that SS lives with us in order for us to enroll him in the elementary school he has already been registered in.  BM can sign him up for a school by her mom's house, which will make drop-off & pick-up easier on her, but it will be better on the kids to start the year off at the school they've been going to (well, the 10 yo has been going there, my SS is 5 and is just starting kindergarten but went in at the end of last term for a few "trial" classes).  But I'm sure BM will do what's best for HER, not them.

She's going to have to get a lawyer or it's just going to keep postponing things even further, I think.  At least that's the impression we got yesterday.  The judge wanted to make sure she had counsel present, and was immediately going to adjourn when she didn't.  Our next meeting is a "pre-trial conference" & the judge told her "See you next week, with your counsel present."  

The longer it takes before the trial starts, the longer it'll be before the trial ends and this is settled.  By then, the kids will have had to've started school and it's a further disruption of their lives to move in the middle of a school year, especially if she wants to take them from a public school here and enroll them in a private, Catholic school there, in the middle of the term!  So that only helps our case even more.

We had our "first appearance" in family court yesterday, and BM seemed like she honestly thought she'd walk in there and leave having "won" and would be able to move to Illinois this weekend! The "referee" (it's not a judge) immediately realized she didn't have counsel present and adjourned until the 22nd and assigned a Law Guardian to meet with the children. BM's mom was there- and get this- they both showed up wearing above-the-knee jean skirts & flip-flops! Real classy! Anyway, BM's mom complains that the kids are due to start school (in Illinois) on the 23rd, so the date gets bumped up to next week, Aug. 10th. I waited for our attorney to counter that, and he didn't, so I spoke up (and the referee SMILED at me) and I told him that the children are still registered at their elementary school here- they just have to be re-enrolled, which is just a matter of filling out a form! I was smiling the whole time and trying to hide it. BM's mom looked like she wanted to choke me.

BM holds up their separation agreement, says "He gave me sole custody!" The referee told her we're not in trial yet, he's only holding up the judge's petition stating she can't take the kids out of the state, but she's free to go! And if she does go, the kids go to their father! And then the referee pointed out that if we go to trial, that will run way past the beginning of school in either state so the school issue will be irrelevant! His tone of voice was very demeaning towards BM the entire time, and when he told her she was free to leave, but the kids weren't, he even flipped his hand at her, said "Go! But they don't leave!"

The kids met with a law guardian today (who is an old friend of my parent's, but BM took the kids to the appt. so we didn't get to tell him this- it may not affect it one way or the other, but I'm willing to try!) Originally BM said "YOU make the appointment, YOU take them" but I don't know if she figured it would look better if she took them, or if she actually was being considerate since she's a SAHM and he's working nights and getting up to take them to a noon apt. would totally interrupt his sleep for the day, but my FH wanted to be the one to take them to the apt. anyway.  He felt that they might have "nicer things to say about the parent they last see before going in with him" but I know that's not the case. They're 4 & 5 and they're going to want to live w/ their mom, but they're not going to want to be separated from their dad, either. We now to have to trust in the professionals to do what's best for them, to do their jobs properly (fingers crossed).

BM left there ticked off, never spoke 2 words to us the entire time. We feel much better about our case now, though- but not 100% confident. Even though BM can get an attorney now and will have time to prepare before a trial, we're way ahead of her with all the research I did and everything I've put together for our attorney.  I hope her attorney, who she obviously has not retained these past few weeks, wants to kick her in the behind for not having done so, and then do the same to her mother, whose big mouth moved the date up, giving him only 10 days to prepare his case for the pre-trial conference next week, rather than the 22 days he would've had!

I just still can't believe that right out of the gate the judge-guy was already "against" the MOM!  Score one for the DADS!  

Yes, I will keep you in my thoughts.  My best advice is documentation.  I have compiled so much stuff, mostly my own lists of "Examples of father's involvement in children's lives" and "Child Care Arrangements" (I covered every possible scenario from no school days to when my fiance is working days or nights, to if the regular babysitter isn't available, done to the times we'd pick up).  Even if our attorney doesn't get to use any of it in court, it makes me feel like I'm doing something useful.  Plus, our lawyer seemed surprised when I knew about the NY cases that they'll reference in court, even the cases that had outcomes not in our favor.  I've done so much research!

We had our "first appearance" in family court this morning, and his ex seemed like she honestly thought she'd walk in there and leave having "won" and would be able to move to Illinois this weekend.  The "referee" (it's not a judge) told her we're not in trial yet, he's only holding up the judge's petition stating she can't take the kids out of the state, but she's free to go! And if she does go, the kids go to their father!  We go back on the 10th, after the kids meet with a law guardian (who is an old friend of my parent's, but if BM takes the kids to the appt. we won't get to tell him this- it may not affect it one way or the other, but I'm willing to try!)  BM left their ticked off, never spoke 2 words to us the entire time.  The next court date got bumped up to the 10th from the 22nd cuz BM's mom was there and complained that the kids are due to start school (in Illinois) on the 23rd.  But then the referee pointed out that if we go to trial, that will run way past the beginning of school in either state!  His tone of voice was very demeaning towards BM the entire time, and when he told her she was free to leave, but the kids weren't, he even flipped his hand at her, said "Go!  But they don't leave!"  We feel much better now.  Even though BM can get an attorney now and will have time to prepare before a trial, we're way ahead of her.  
So don't lose faith- keep fighting!  There's still hope for all of us!

Thanks.  Yeah, we're definitely going to stay positive towards the kids and not focus on their mom.  The last thing we want to do is bad mouth her or anything like that- that will just make us look bad.  We honestly want to keep everything the way it is!  We don't want anything to change!  Well, my fiance would LOVE to get full custody, but, for the kids' sake, so as not to disrupt their lives any further, we just want the judge to rule that their mom can't move them out of the state.  Then, as long as she decides not to move herself, she can keep physical custody.  We're still going to file a motion to have their separation agreement amended to joint custody (she has "sole legal" right now) and if she chooses to move to Illinois after all, we get custody anyway.

The other dad involved and his wife think we're going to walk into court on Monday and we're just going to win; the ex thinks she's going to walk out of there with the okay to move; I have a strong feeling we'll be told that the court wants to "evaluate" the situation, maybe assign a Guardian Ad Litem to the kids, do home evaluations, etc. and the whole thing will be dragged out.  While that may benefit us because we have absolutely nothing to hide, and any "investigating" will only furthur prove just how involved we are w/ the kids, and it may keep them in town that much longer, we just want the stress to end!  

Thanks again for your replies.  This situation is stressful enough, especially since I was trying to plan our wedding, and I had to go to the hospital last night to say "goodbye" to an elderly aunt who we don't think will be around much longer.  What an awful summer this has turned out to be.

Yes, please keep me updated, and good luck!  It really sucks for good dads that the system is already agains them because not only has society typically ruled in favor of the mom, but there are so many dead beat dads out there giving good dads a bad name!

Luckily in our case BM has an older daughter who's father is also fighting, and his petition was granted yesterday.  His court date is August 18th so BM can't leave for Illinois now until after that date- she was planning on leaving August 5th.  We go to court on Monday and while we have a good case, I'm terrified.  This other father says he has never won against BM- we've never gone to court against her, everything's been pretty civil up until now.  

Again, good luck and keep me posted.  Thanks.

Yes, please keep me updated, and good luck!  It really sucks for good dads that the system is already agains them because not only has society typically ruled in favor of the mom, but there are so many dead beat dads out there giving good dads a bad name!

Luckily in our case BM has an older daughter who's father is also fighting, and his petition was granted yesterday.  His court date is August 18th so BM can't leave for Illinois now until after that date- she was planning on leaving August 5th.  We go to court on Monday and while we have a good case, I'm terrified.  This other father says he has never won against BM- we've never gone to court against her, everything's been pretty civil up until now.  

Again, good luck and keep me posted.  Thanks.

We do have the days- I highlighted our current visitation compared to the summer vacation & 1 wk ea for Thanksgiving, Xmas, winter break & spring break (that's customary breaks for here, not sure what Illinois will have, but that's what we're using as an example, and giving BM 1 wk at xmas too) and our current EOW + 1 day/wk is more days than the school vacations.  This was BM's big point but I blew this theory out of the water w/ my calendar, and faxed it the lawyer yesterday, and have pretty, color-coded copies for court!

We have pictures & ticket stubs of activities, games, spending time w/ extended family, and family members who will be day care providers all ready to go to court w/ us, too.  

My FH thinks BM will move w/ out the kids- his move left him w/ his dad when he was a baby, so he knows it's possible, but I can't imagine a mother doing it.  And I know she won't give up the money.  I think BM's FH will quit his job and move back her and things will go back to the way they were, IF the courts say she can't move the kids (fingers crossed)!  If she decides to go, then we will let her have them for the same vacations she was offering us, and we will carpool w/ her other daughter's father, picking up & dropping off the kids- we decided whoever has custody should be responsible for the transportation.  

The only thing written in their separation agreement (their divorce will be final any day now) is that HE can't remove the kids from NY state w/out HER written permission (like when we took them to Niagara Falls for vacation).  But we didn't even realize that until this whole issue came up.  Once this is all settled, we'll have our lawyer file a motion or whatever to have a couple of things changed in their agreement, depending on who ends up w/ custody after all.

Thank you for being encouraging.  What state are you in, do you mind saying?

Yes, BM is offering to let us have the kids during school vacations, but right now they live almost across the street and we get them EOW & 1 day/wk but we take them much more than that.  There really isn't a history of her not allowing dad time w/ the kids- she actually calls and asks him to take them, says she "can't handle them" and has called crying saying she "never asked to be a single parent."  She has even admitted, over the phone to both me and my FH that, while she loves the 4 yr. old, she never wanted to have her (she wanted to have an abortion cuz she got pregnant when their son was only 6 wks old).  We have told her numerous times that we'll take the kids but she won't give them up- cuz that would mean giving up the $ too.  

We plan on bringing family w/ us to court- especially my FH's aunt who will be our daycare provider should we get custody, and my twin sister, who's our "back-up" babysitter- who BM used to PAY to babysit, back when she actually had a job herself.  

Is there anything else we can do to prepare?  Points we should make?

My fiance's ex-wife's boyfriend applied for a transfer to Illinois (we live in NY) and he started work there at the beginning of July.  She agreed to marry him, and plans on moving the kids there on August 5th, and admitted she wasn't going to tell us until she was "all set".

We found out, confronted her, filed a petition and her stopped- temporarily.  We go to court on July 31st (that's in 6 days!)  Our lawyer says we have a good case because she has to prove that the move is in the kids best interest, and that the courts usually only consider the move if 1) she's moving to follow a husband (she's not- they got engaged AFTER he took the transfer; 2) she's taking a better job (that doesn't work either- she's a stay-at-home mom- the move is because of his job, and he never lost his job, he requested the transfer because of concerns about what might happen w/ his job next year.  He had options to stay here, and never even looked for other jobs in this area- plus, he's not the kid's provider, my fiance is, and their mom CAN work- even if she wants to wait until all the kids are in school, that will be next fall.  Not to mention he took a $4-$5/hr pay CUT to take this job); 3) if she were moving the kids closer to family (she's moving them AWAY from ALL of their family.  No one is in Illinois but strangers).  
 
So, even though they've sold their home here (not that she's told us that yet), she's got a place to stay at her mom's and the kids all have homes with their dads, and their new "home" in Illinois?  It's a 3 bedroom apartment- for the 5 of them.  They're going to that from a 3 story house w/ a fenced in backyard w/ a pool?!  That's supposed to be in the kid's best interest?  I think not.  And she enrolled the kids in a Catholic school there and is trying to tell us we owe a share of the $2500 tuition!  

While the burden of proof is on her, we've built a case proving how involved my fiance is in his kids lives, I have a list of "examples" that I faxed to the lawyer today from daddy taking the kids to all of their doctors appointments- rearranging his work schedule, taking unpaid days to do so, even, while she's a SAHmom- to including their half sister (her daughter from a prior relationship) on our vacations and driving them back & forth to soccer lessons.  I have pictures and ticket stubs from activities and events we've done w/ them, including copies of pictures their mom gave ny fiance from when they were separated but she had bday parties or holidays at her house and invited him over!  
 
The ex is trying to say that we'll have more time w/ the kids when she sends them to us for the summer and during school breaks then we do now, so I enlarged a 2007 calendar and circled all of our scheduled visitation based on the current agreement on one copy, then circled her proposed days on another- we have more time with them now!  All around, we come out on top.  BUT, YOU JUST NEVER KNOW.  We don't even go in front of a judge- it's a Court Attorney Referee, but our lawyer knows him and says that, based on NY statutes, she can't win.  We were hoping to have the same court date w/ the other daughter's dad (who is also fighting to keep her in NY) but since he hasn't gotten his petiton back yet, their court date won't be until August, but that keeps the kids in the state even longer, so we're okay with that.

Okay- so now that you have the background- help?  We're still freaking out and want to do anything else we can to make sure we can keep our babies here with us.  They're 4 & 5 (the older daughter is 10) and their mom keeps telling them they're moving.  They come to our house and cry about how they're going to miss us but "mommy says we won't see you for a long time but we can call you and then when we do see you again we can spend the night for a while."  It breaks my heart.  Please help.  Thank you!