Messages

Thanks for the input Kitty. It felt good to get this out there. We're just really confused but I think you're right that we need to take it slow just to make sure things don't blow up because of past history. That would be the most detrimental to my SD, so hopefully the past will be water under the bridge!

(I'm honestly in shock that I even typed that... before yesterday evening that possibility didn't even exist! It's almost like we've entered some sort of alternate universe!)

I'm in Pima County. Where are you?

Brief History:

We are in AZ. SD is 9. My husband has primary physical and joint legal. SD lives here 75% of the year and visits BM in CO the other 25% of the year. They were never married.

There has been many accusations by BM in the past regarding my husband and me abusing my SD. BM has thoroughly involved my SD in everything court related. She knows too many things that she shouldn't. Things have been really tense for about the past 2 years and we have been gearing up for a nasty trip back to court.

Current Events:

So we decided to take my SD to a female therapist. The request had been made by BM probably to try to provide some proof that my SD is being abused although we never told her that SD had actually started seeing a therapist because SD said BM would ask her to lie to the therapist and say that we are abusing her. SD didn't want to tell BM about the therapist. During my SD's sessions with the therapist, they made flashcards for my SD to study regarding some things to say when BM asked her to lie in court, talked bad about us, etc. My SD decided that she wanted to take the information with her to BM's house this summer but she didn't want BM to find it because she was scared she would get in trouble. SD proceeded to copy the information onto a single piece of paper that she could fold up in her pocket and hide from BM in her room. We were really hopeful that this would help my SD cope better.

Then on Thursday evening (her flight leaves the following Friday) my SD tells us that she is scared to go to BM's because BM drags her up the stairs by her arms when she gets angry and also knocks her sister to the ground. We ask her if she wants us to talk to a judge so she doesn't have to go (getting a protective order) and she says yes. Well we go to the courthouse Friday morning first thing before her flight is scheduled to leave. It turns out that the judge wouldn't have time to review the request until after my SD's flight is scheduled to leave and the judge's secretary advises us to put my SD on the plane. After more discussion, my husband decides to send my SD as scheduled, but my SD makes sure she has her information from the therapist in her pocket.

Saturday we weren't able to have our scheduled phone call because my SD's phone was off. Finally Monday we call again as scheduled and it is still off. My husband proceeds to call BM's phone, angry because my SD's phone is not on as requested. When BM is asked about the phone she said she won't turn it on because her other daughter doesn't have a phone and my SD rubs that in her face. BM then states on speakerphone that she has something else she needs to talk to us about, but she'll do it later. My husband, who is already angry about the phone, pushes for BM to talk about it now and she did... BM told us that:

Apparently when my SD got to BM's house the first thing she did was tell BM that she had this paper with the information from the therapist and that she never got to talk at the therapist because my husband and I would always talk for her. (SD went every appointment except for the initial one by herself.) That's when BM started to question things that my SD has been telling her about the abuse and that's when we told her some of the things my SD had told us about her. It was decided that all parents and step-parents should phone conference without my SD to discuss what has been happening.

Having had such a hostile relationship between our two families for the past two years, we still feel wary about this new found cooperation and trust, but at the same time hopeful. It does seem to make sense that this could be what is happening. Maybe my SD is doing it for extra attention, or pity, or anything she can manipulate out of us. We don't know, we are waiting for some additional advice from my SD's therapist. In the meantime, I thought I would tell our story and see if anyone has any input or advice.

We feel lost because something we have been basing our actions on for so long may not be true and therefore a whole new basis of operation needs to be established. Anyone dealt with anything similar? Thanks!!!

Thanks for the heads up! Protest completed!

Maybe some time in the next 9 years something will happen for her to get the proverbial 2x4 upside her head and stop using her child as a pawn...but don't count on it at all.

This was brilliant! lol (It also applies to my very similar situation.)

Well said Kitty.

Davy,

It is apparent from your posts that you have had a tough time of it and are very jaded regarding the current legal system.  I think it is great that you are an advocate to try to change the wrong you see in it, but that road is not for everyone.  The truth is this person most likely needs a lawyer which most people on this board are not.  If you are a lawyer, then great feel free to feel a notion of superiority over everyone else here, but until then everyone has had different experience and the resulting advice is based on each individual's experience.  Disagreeing with advice given is fine, but you continually try to make it a personal attack instead of professional criticism which is uncalled for.  We are all people trying to help the children here; we are all here to put the children first.

As far as I understand it (and I re-read it to make sure), The Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction Act does not dictate that NY has jurisdiction since there is no order regarding custody/visitation.  The Uniform Interstate Family Support Act does apply for the existing child support order.  And NY will continue to have exclusive continuing jurisdiction until father consents to move the jurisdiction to another state or he moves from the state.

This is the "ignorance" that is accepted by judges, lawyers, and many others from my "social experience" with both acts and you would most likely be hard pressed to convince the courts otherwise as previously suggested.  But again I would recommend familiarizing yourself with both of these laws before you talk to a lawyer.

Okay well our case was a little different, but there were some similarities.  My husband the mother of his daughter were never married.  They both lived in Nevada. Child support was ordered to be payed to BM but no custody was ordered, it was just defaulted to her in the Nevada court for the purposes of child support.  When my SD was 2, my husband, then boyfriend, moved to Arizona with me.  Approximately 1-1/2 to 2 years after that, BM sent my SD down to live with us on a "temporary" basis provided my husband still pay BM child support.  If he didn't pay then BM threatened to pick up my SD.  This went on for 2 years until we finally had money to hire an attorney.  Eventually we figured out that after talking to several attorneys in Nevada and in Arizona, that there was no existing custody/visitation order and that he could file for custody in Arizona.  We ended up filing for an emergency hearing because BM was seriously threatening to pick up my SD because the IRS had not garnished my husband's tax return for the previous year for arrears on child support.  The judge ordered that my SD remain in Arizona with us.  BM did not have a lawyer and my husband and her ended up settling in mediation.  With regards to the child support once he had a court order saying he had custody he immediately sent that to the CSE in Nevada.  They stopped the ongoing support but said that they couldn't give him credit for the past two years of paying BM child support while still taking care of his daughter. Since then they have continued to garnish his portion of our tax return for the arrears because BM wouldn't forgive it even though she was receiving support for no child for 2 years.  As far as visitation expenses in regards to child support Nevada claimed that BM got credit for visitation expenses with along with some other factors reduced her child support obligation to $0.  Nevada did not give my husband any credit because we pay the other half of the visitation expenses because he was the one that moved from Nevada even though BM voluntarily sent my SD to live here too.

In regards to your situation based on this experience, you will have to file for custody/visitation in Florida assuming your daughter has been there for more than 6 months. I would think since your daughter's mother created the distance that you should get credit for child support, but the problem is that there is no custody/visitation order so having a set schedule may help put a more exact amount on the cost for seeing your daughter that should be credited to your support payments.  As far as finding where they are living I would start with the CSE that is paying her your support.  They must have some idea as to where she is in order to pay her.  With regards to your garnished taxes, the CSE is required to hold the money for 6 months as a precaution in case any of the money was taken in error (like if there is a spouse that is entitled to a portion of it, etc).  It is always better to be the first to file for custody/visitation and a lawyer is necessary especially for fathers.  In the meantime document everything, keep everything, and do some research online on the laws in Florida before talking to a lawyer.  Being organized and having an idea of your plan of attack may help you save costs.   Good luck.

I can definitely understand that.  How some parents have no problem putting their kids in the middle like that is really disturbing.  It's really the children that suffer the most and unfortunately we have experience with that too.