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was kinda early here fingers couldn't see yet, Sorry!!

The letter was from a mother who's 17 yr old son and g'f are having a baby.  What she asked was what are my and my sons rights, ans what will happen if the couple break up.

This is what really upset me..It's kind of long but its the exact response.

No matter how careful you are, sometimes your children surprise you, not always for the better.  Life has handed your an unexpected hurdle, but we hope you will keep your eyes focused on the silver lining- your grandchild.

Your son is legally obligated to provide financial support until the child reaches at least 18 yrs of age.

(AND NOW THE REAL KICKER)

Please take him to see a lawyer so an agreement for supprt and visitation can be set down to paper.  While there ask the attorney about your states laws ragrding grandparents rights.  You might not have any.  IF YOU WANT TO KEEP IN TOUCH WITH THIS GRANDCHILD, WE RECOMMEND MAINTAINING A CORDIAL RELATIONSHIPWITH THE MOTHER AND SEE TO IT THAT YOUR SON DOES THE SAME!!!

I was very upset by this response.  No mention of 50/50.  No mention of being a constant in the childs life  The first piece of advice was  CHILD SUPPORT  and  VISITATION!!

you can write them at [email protected]

I did.

A cordial relationship!! Clearly neither of the women writing this have ever been torn from their children like so many of the men here have!!

While DH and I aren't in CA we are very concerned about the move away issue.  Our Psychomommy moved from WI to CO and left no forwarding address with anyone except (of course) child support.

She has since moved back and only by the grace of god and her own ignorance was jurisdiction never moved to CO after her 6 month of residence there.

Please keep us posted on this!!    Again thanks.

Radio Shack has an excellent phone corder that connects right to your phone.  No messing with a mini corder. This is what we use for  EVERY CONVERSATION WITH THE PSYCHOMOMMY< OR HER FAMILY!!

EVERY SINGLE PHONE CONVERSATION!  And also the microcassette recorder is in either my or DH's shirt pocket for every in person encounter we may have.

O-K  back to the abuse CARD, as it is.   I was also married to an abuser. The whole emotional and physical, broken bones the nine yards.

However, we've been divorced for 18 yrs. and over the years I have come to see that while I could never have beaten him up, I certainly KNEW what buttons to push, and I am also very independent.  So I refused to just lay down and take.

I NEVER kept our 3 children from NEVER!!  At 16 my daughter decided she wanted to move back to the city and live with dad.  I didn't approve but DH andI had been very careful and because of the age of the children when we divorced they had no clue what happened durong that marriage.

Less than a year after moving there she was back home because she and dad had a fight over taking his dog for a walk and he ended up shoving her against a wall and putting his forearm against her throat and his hand over mouth so that his parents wouldn't hear her scream.
This was the first time she had any idea what happened. And I think that even if she did know there are some lessons that must be learned on their own.  His mother found out what happened and said to my daughter  "Like Father, Like Son".   EXPLAINS ALOT!!

Of course this is the same woman who said to me when she found ot why I filed for divorce  "It's a mans perogative to hit his wife"  
I was floored by that attitude.  I was raised in an intact family and had never had any experience with any kind of abuse.

At 23, 20, and 19 the kids have very little to do with him, becaus he tried to tell the kids that no abuse ever happened. But when they did a court check they found several of the police reports and the restraining orders.  He lied and they know it.  

But on the other hand DH's ex refused him for years, even telling his children that he wasn't their father her new husband was their only father.

Please consider that whatever kind of Father he "might" be he is her father.  Kids who don't know their fathers feel like 1/2 of them is missing.They think if my dad is sooo bad that mom didn't want him they I must 1/2 bad for being part of him.

It's not your choice to let him see her or not see her IT IS HER right to see him.  HER RIGHT, NOT YOURS

She stated that The father beat her, however, whatever he did was below the waist because their wasn't s mark on her face or arms.

She also said the father took the baby so roughly that she thought he broke babies legs.  Father took baby to doctor on reservation in S.D.
Dr. there said baby wasn't hurt AT ALL.

However, part of the arrest warrant was possesion of THC, based on a statement by the mother.

When asked why she thought father took the child she refused to answer saying it was between her and the father.

When I did the court search for the Marshall Fox story I ran the ex's name just for giggles...Our Hearing was almost 2 yrs ago and her attorney is taking her to small claims court for failure to pay his fees.

HEE HEE HEE!!!

//www.wbay.com      Marshall Fox and child found in South Dakota.

You can read the story at the above website.

I'm hoping some, or all of you, will e-mail this T.V. station and ask them to look at the real reason this father removed his son from his mother.

No one has spoken tothe father or his family, but the mother says he does drugs and drinks.
When I did a search on Wisconsin court records their was nothing violent, or drug related anywhere in his record. Nor did I find any restraining orders, As the mother is claiming the father beat her.

The sheriff issued a warrant based soley on the mothers accusations, how many of you have been there?  Iknow DH and I were.

There is no divorce or custody order so its not kidnapping either, so the state refused to issue an amber alert.

This whole story upset me on so many different levels that I immediately fired off an e-mail to the news station.

Thanks everyone for the help, I'm hoping to just get a little attention to the plight of fathers here and throughout the country.

P.S. The indian reservation in South Dakota is refusing to honor the warant issued by the Shawano County Sheriffs Dept. So he's not in custody yet.

their news programs will all show across the top. Click on Primetime thursday.  I'm sure that there's an e-mail link.

I'm hoping if enough of us mail them, maybe they will come here and try to contact some people who have REALLY LOST their children.

eom