custody for teen father

[cuppa7]

This may be a unique situation to this board, but any help would be appreciated. My teenage son is about to become a father around the end of March. The mother of his former girlfriend is trying to gain partial custody of this baby and only limited visitation for my son. My son wants to be a part of his child's life 100% and we want to support his efforts in every way we can. The mother of the mom-to-be does not want my son involved in the baby's life and has stated this many times. This mother has stated she has an agreement drawn up by her attorney that gives her partial custody with her daughter but nothing for my son. We were advised by an attorney we met with that no custody order can proceed or be determined until the child is born. This paper seems to be on ongoing threat of some sort as they mention this in any conversation with either us (parents) or my son. We have met with this mother and her ex husband and she stated her reason for wanting partial custody was to add the baby onto her health insurance plan. We do not believe this. We found info for free health coverage for the baby, but the mother is refusing it. We have offered help both financially and materially to this mother and daughter but keep getting refused. Is there anyone that could advise us on father's rights? My son has stated he would like to have shared physical custody with the mom-to-be. The mother has made a career of going into court anytime something comes up regarding her daughter and custody issues. We would like to avoid this but I don't see that happening. There are so many issues surrounding this family and we are genuinely concerned for the baby's emotional welfare. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[Indigo Mom]

-----The mother has made a career of going into court anytime something comes up regarding her daughter and custody issues. -----

How can the mother make a career of this when the child isn't born yet?  Does your sons pregnant ex girlfriend have more children?  

[Kitty C.]

Because she's already been thru the process MULTIPLE times with her ex, no doubt...........

Poor mom-to-be, a product of her environment and a child without her father in her life, I bet........

[Peanutsdad]

Currently as the child is not yet bORN,, they are blowin smoke up yer bums,, its all a bluff.

BUT, I would expect that the grandma has quite enough experience in family court to make your lives a living hell,,, count on it.

As SOON as the child is born,, several things you and your son absolutely HAVE to do:

1. File a request for dna test, ( as much as 33% of supposed fathers,, aint).

2. File custody paperwork and a parenting plan. Make sure your son knows what he wants in the way of custody/visitation.

3. As SOON as the dna test confirms,, he needs to figure out what 20% of his gross income after state, and federal taxes are,,,and begin paying cs WITH a check or money order clearly marked,, as child support. DO NOT give cash!!!! It will be considered a gift.


Simple fact of the matter is this,, IF he is the father, they cannot keep him out of the childs life so long as he files for his rights.

[cuppa7]

Thanks for your suggestions. In regards to the mother going in and out of court multiple times; yes that is in regards to her ex husband. They have been battling with custody for 10 years. The daughter wanted to live with her father at one point , but her mother refused. Anyway, no, my son does not have any other children. We have received info from this mother's friends and one family member of hers, as to what we can look forward to dealing with. My main point for posting was to find out if anyone has any info on father's rights groups or teen parent groups. My son is enrolled in a parenting class where they will assist him throughout the baby's first year. He is also being given a baby shower (or daddy shower as the case may be) by our family and friends. He wants to be completely involved in every way of this child's life. We thought a father's rights group might be able to offer some insight as to what he can expect and maybe rely on. But thanks to you all for replying.

[Peanutsdad]

I think you are missing part of the point here. Maternity is the ONLY parentage that is known without a doubt.  I strongly urge him to have dna tests done prior to accepting responsibility.

As far as fathers rights groups,, look locally to find any local organizations. Teen parents,, I have no clue about.


Essentially, we ARE giving you some idea what he can expect. We are also giving you the advise learned by more parents in the custody fights than I care to think about. I cannot stress enough that your son needs to seek legal counsel and have an attorney ensure his rights.

[cuppa7]

I beg to differ. We already know that paternity has to be established once a custody application is filed. This is a given in our state, so there is no need to discuss or question that issue. We did consult an attorney, but this person was not knowledgable about father's rights and clearly stated she was only interested in what the mother wants. Common sense tells us to move on. We have now been referred to an attorney that does support father's rights, but still need to convince our anitquated court system that they do exist.  I did not come here seeking legal advice. I am looking for groups that could be of help to my son. Even literature could be of assistance. We live in a small rural area that does not offer teenage parenting groups or teenage father's groups. The only thing my son has as far as a group setting at this time is the parenting class he is taking. The person running this class has stated they do not know how far they can go in being an advocate for my son when it comes to court proceedings. Because so many fathers are on this site I thought some may have contacted groups, even national that may be of assistance. Perhaps I came to the wrong location for support of father's rights. I strongly support father's rights. I believe parenting is an equal partnership and fathers are extremely important in their children's lives. I really do not believe that females are automatically qualified to be the better parent. I do believe that motherhood is a learning process. And yes I should know as I am the proud mother of 4 children and 2 grandchildren with a third grandchild on the way. But I have seen many times where children would be better off in the custody of their father. And it is very sad that in the year 2004 there isn't more out there to assist fathers. The Father's Rights Initiative is in place in our state, but the court system has apparently not caught up with that. Thank you for your insight, but I do believe this is not the place to look for assistance with support groups.

[Indigo Mom]

-----Common sense tells us to move on. -----

Actually, you'd be wrong if you and your son "move on" because the mother will take this to court, she will get child support out of your son, and it will be high if he has "moved on" and doesn't spend time with his child like he wants.  She will have him by his testicles for the next 18 years.  If he chooses to "stick around", it will be a fight for his child, but a fight well worth the effort.  Instead of listening to "fathers rights attorneys", who, by the way, want what's in your wallet (as any attorney)..you should listen to people who have NOTHING to gain from talking to you...that would be us...

-----I did not come here seeking legal advice. -----

Sorry to hear that, as your son is about to stroll through one heck of a brutal "legal" system.  I believe you can get "more" from a site such as this...as just about everyone here as BTDT and can give your son advice on how "they" went through the system.

-----Perhaps I came to the wrong location for support of father's rights. -----

You'd be dead wrong.  You managed to find the best shared parenting site ever...IMO.  You can't go to court with a fathers rights "attitude" if you have no knowledge...that which you can find here.

-----Thank you for your insight, but I do believe this is not the place to look for assistance with support groups.-----

If you're looking to have your son involved in his childs life...you've come to the right place.  But, you're free to move on to another site, if you choose.

[kiddosmom]

-----Common sense tells us to move on. -----

when she said this she was saying they moved on from that lawyer, not the child.

[Peanutsdad]

Problem being,, if they go to court with a "fathers rights" attitude, or that the court system is antiquated,, odds are good they will get hammered.

How many times have we seen that happen here? A poster comes in full of idealism, and is back 6 months later bemoaning the judge who just raped em.

Simple fact of the matter is this,, the childs maternal grandmother has definately got the experience in the court arena,, so much so that she was able to defeat a years long custody fight herself. The childs mother is young, and assumably not had time to generate a negative history for herself, thus, shes golden too.

From the poster, I get the impression that these two women intend to make life difficult for the dad and family,, so not attending to the realities of custody fights, visitation interference, repeated trips back to court,, the child support burden this kid is going to find himself under,,,tells me they have a rough road ahead.

While having a babyshower and seeking local fathers rights support groups is all fine and dandy, that doesnt do a thing for what this father needs. The fathers rights groups have no power to actually help him,, at least none I've seen do. Nor any I've heard of.

I'm sorry poster, but there are no national fathers rights groups with some awesome power base,, there are no effective political action committees for fathers rights, there is no spokesman that can come into your antiquated court and wave a magic wand.


What there IS however,, is this site. Perhaps the only one like it with any decent resources. What there is, is more parents than I care to count, who have been there and done that. I can think of several posters offhand that came in with your exact story, some took heed and educated themselves, others did not.

Whether or not you do, means little to me, because, the sad fact is,,,there will be others to come behind you, and we who are here, will offer the advise, again and again and again. Some will learn,, and perhaps wrestle a decent deal out of the courts,, others wont. Some will return here to share their stories, their defeats, their victories, spread the knowledge of their area to others to perhaps make the next parents trip into the same courts,, not quite as bad.

Good luck to you and your son. :)

[cuppa7]

Thank you for reading the lines. You are right, we moved on to another attorney. I don't believe this is a bad site at all, just not what I was looking for. As far as getting "hammered" in the other reply, there are way too many incidents with the other family to list in here, but we will have the former assistant district attorney for our area representing my son so I know he will get some type of custody agreement even if it means a battle. We are not country bumpkins here, just hard working intelligent adults like all of you; and please don't think for one minute that I won't fight like a mother tigress to help my son. I've been through too much myself in other matters to be one little bit afraid of this and know not to go through this with blinders on. Thank you all.

[carcar]

This is my first time on this site & I came on looking for info to help my grandson.  It was funny that I found your post because the situation is almost identical.  My grandson who is only 15 is going to be a dad. He really is determined to be a good dad & a part of his childs life (he doesnt want to be like his own dad was). The girlfriends mother is telling the kids that they have to sign guardianship of the baby over to her in order for the baby the have medical insurance through her work.  We live in AZ and they have a program called baby arizona that will cover the pregnancy & first year of the baby's life (and longer if you qualify). But the mother is refusing to do that.  We are trying to find out what his rights are. The mother of the girl has told him that because he is 15 he isn't allowed to be listed on the birth certificate.  I think that is total BS. But if anyone out there knows anything about teenage father's rights in the state of Arizona I would really appreciate hearing from you.  Thanks.

[cuppa7]

I haven't been here for quite some time, but when I saw your post I had to reply. Before going any further I would like to let the nice people who responded when I first posted know the outcome of my son's situation. My son was awarded shared legal custody of his daughter. He has visitation 2 nights a week, every other weekend and one full week during the summer. All holidays, including his birthday is a shared day too. We are now in the process of getting the birth certificate changed as the child's mother and grandmother listed the father as unknown. The courts ordered a paternity test, (which we did not have to pay for) and the test came back as 99.9% positive in my son's favor. It's seems like it's taken forever, but as my son says, every minute of waiting and hoping has been worth it. Just to see his face light up whenever he takes his little girl with him is enough to lift my heart. His daughter is beautiful and looks so much like him! He has his driver's license now and a car so he is able to pick up his daughter on his own. I don't know the legal statutes in AZ, but a consultation with an attorney is something I would definitely recommend! I can't imagine AZ is that much different from PA in most matters. No matter what his age, he is still a father. Never give up hope, stay strong for your grandson he's going to need you through this. As far as the birth certificate that sounds like BS to me too. Don't hesitate to check with your vital records bureau. They may be able to assist you with information on that issue. Good luck to you and your grandson, I completely understand what you're going through!

[Peanutsdad]

Thank you for updating us. So instead of shared physical custody, he ended up with essentially standard visitation.  

Was there a home study done in his case? What were the outcomes on the concerns about the mother and grandmother? How was child support assessed?

If you dont mind,, the answers could help guide others in the future.

[cuppa7]

Sure I'd be glad to give you more information, at least what I have experienced. My son originally considered shared physical custody, but after talking it over with us (his parents) and other parents in a similar position, he decided on legal custody. The thought of his daughter moving back and forth from home to home every six months was a main concern. He felt that uprooting her could have serious effects in the future. His attorney advised he could choose either type of custody. There was no home study done. My son did speak to the hearing officer for about 10 minutes. The hearing officer spoke with my son and his daughter's mother separately. We were not allowed to speak at the custody hearing. My son's attorney conveyed our support and concerns. The other grandmother took every opportunity to speak out against us while we (all the grandparents from both sides) were waiting in the lobby, but the deputy sheriff on duty finally told her either she stopped speaking or would have to leave the area. As far as support, that is a completely separate issue that will be addressed in a different location, through a different agency. The birth certificate has to be changed first, then a hearing can be scheduled for support. My son will receive a copy of the updated birth certificate as well as his daughter's mother.  His attorney advised that support will be minimal because my son is still a student in high school and the order can be modified at a later date when his education is completed. My son is very aware of what can come in the future and is preparing himself now for a technical vocation that will provide him with a good, steady source of income. He is already putting money aside from a part time job he has now, so he will be able to help provide for his daughter. If you have any other questions, please post and I will be glad to answer what I can.

[Kitty C.]

You know, if you do your homework, you and/or your son could save a TON of legal fees by setting up a parenting plan NOW that will last throughout the child's minority life.  There is a lot of information on this site that can help you thru that.  But his atty's comments of going back later to modify is nothing but a way for him to line his pockets even further.

Also, you should know that the ONLY way to modify is if you can meet the court's standard of 'significant change of circumstance'.  Unless you put it in the order NOW that modification WILL be mandatory when he gets out of school, or whatever benchmark you decide to place (and that's iffy, too), it's doubtful you would be granted a modification.

Time for some serious educating!

[cuppa7]

I am sorry, I should've clarified that issue of modification. It's difficult to condense everything into a post, I don't like to write a book even though I seem to have done just that. The attorney advised my son that a support order that is entered for a minimal amount now could be modified by his daughter's mother once my son is done with his education and has obtained full time employment. And of course she should and will. Raising a child can be expensive and both parents need to contribute as much as they can to make sure their child is taken care of. My son wants to see his daughter have advantages in her life that he might not have had or will have. Isn't that every parent's wish for their children? As a grandparent I look forward to helping in every way I can whether it is financial or otherwise. I have done so with my other 2 grandchildren along with their parents and will do so for my newest grandaughter. They are all such a delight! I can't imagine life being any other way! We have already started each grandchild out with savings bonds and contributions to a savings account that will help them with college if they decide to go. My son will be contributing to the savings account also. I hope that helps to clarify the issue.

[sweetnsad]

I've read this entire thread and I have to say "kudos" to your son for stepping up and being a Dad....especially at his young age!  There are alot of young men out there that would have hightailed it as soon as they heard they were going to be having a baby....How proud you must be of him!  And how wonderful it is that you have supported him through this....Congrats on your newest addition....:)

[Kitty C.]

I only posted that as a word of warning.  Many a father has tried for a custody modification based on having either educating themselves, gotten better jobs, or living in a better home/area, only to be shot down.  But if the mother wants to go back later and get more support because the father is making more money, you can bet that it will be granted.  the opposite doesn't necessarily happen, tho.  If he were to lose his job 10 years from now, it's not a given that he would be granted a downward modification.

Many attys. have told their clients 'We can always go back later' but it's a helluva lot tougher than you think.  Just didn't want you to be disillusioned by a system that has dads already behind the 8 ball the moment they start.

JMO, but I think it would be a very good idea, as far as custody mod. is concerned is to try to put something in the current order NOW, if you have any idea what his situation will be like ionce he does get out of school, or have it stipulated in the current order that custody mod. will be MANDATED upon his completion, so that there is no way the other party can wiggle out of it or put up any roadblocks against it.  Everything might seem peaceful now, but many have started that way, only to end up at each other's throats.  That's just the reality of the system.  

[cuppa7]

THANK YOU!!!! I don't know if we are as proud of him as he is of himself. This has done wonders for his confidence in the future. The past few months have been very trying, (emotionally), and pulling together as a family has given us the strength to move through this. An added note----we did find a group for my son to participate in through the local Catholic Charities. You do not have to be of the catholic religion, anyone is welcome, ( the group is non-denominational). It's actually a parenting class, made up of all ages of parents in many different situations. The group had many open discussions to address parent's concerns and they have been great advocates for the parents. They seem to have an endless source of referral information too. I would suggest this to anyone looking for a group, if a Catholic Charities is not listed in your phone directory, call the local Catholic Diocese and they should be able to tell you if they have one. Again, this is NOT a recruitment campaign for any specific religion, this is something for any parent.

[cuppa7]

Thanks and I understand what you are saying. Yes, it's sad, but true about parents trying to ignore their custody order. I have seen that happen and it's so miserable for their children. One issue I've seen recently is a mother refusing to allow the child to go with their father on a scheduled visitation day because after 4 years of being divorced the father is getting ready to remarry. And I've seen mothers who  have visitation with their child not show up for the visit too, ( I have temporarily stopped speaking to this person because of that, it's an ongoing issue).  Even though though the hearing officer presiding over my son's custody hearing warned both my son and his daughter's mother that violation of the order is considered contempt of court, that does not guarantee it won't happen. We all hope to keep communication open with his daughter's mother, I was very close to her at one time and I am hoping to at least resume talking with her on a regular basis. She seems very comfortable with our family, but her mother does not want her to become close with us again and has said so. We will all have to work through that, one day at a time. I will keep your suggestion in mind though and thank you.