I need help ASAP-BM had doctor give SS AD/HD Medicine

[swilloug]

I am in a rush for information.

We are currently in a custody modification in Missouri.  

The current court order is joint legal custody with BM primary residency.  We live about 150 miles from each other.  We started modification because my SS has failed school 2 years in a row and is heading for a 3rd year of failing.

My current issue is we found out late this afternoon that SS primary doctor has prescribed AD/HD medications to my SS.  This is after the psycologist sent a letter to all parties stating no finding of AD/HD.  

My husband (BF) and I are make a trip where BM and SS live, tomorrow, to talk face to face with our attorney, family doctor, teachers, etc.

Because the Custody Order states "Conferring Regarding Major Medical Decision:  Each parent shall inform the other in advance of any proposed medical or health care for the child.  The parents shall consult each other and agree prior to obtaining significant medical and ental treatment for the child.  However, emergency care may be authorized with the other paren's prior consent."

If she did get the primary doctor to give SS medication for AD/HD doesn't this constitute contempt of court?

Please help!

THANKS

[kiddosmom]

I would think it constitutes contempt since adhd is NOT an emergency situation.

[msme]

I would ask the doctor to show what he used as a determining factor that the child needed meds. If he has the letter from the psychologist, or, he simply prescribed them on BM's say so, you may have a mal-practice case.

A decent doctor will not prescribe meds unless proper diagnosis is done. To do otherwise, is mal-practice. What drugs is he on? Most are anphetomines & strictly controled.

You never get a second chance to make a first impression!

[swilloug]

The doctor has had him on two different medications aederal and straterpha (sorry if I mispelled these).

My husband called SS last night and asked him not to take the meds anymore.  SS lead husband to beleive there was no more medication left.  Which is odd too if he needs it why doesn't he take it daily.  These are dangerous drug if not taken properly.

We will be going to the doctors office today, although I am sure he won't see us but we will be able to get the medical records and see what SS "diagnosis" is to prescribe the meds.

According to the prior records sent to us and what the nurse told my husband yesterday this doctor has only seen my SS maybe 4-5 times in a 4-5 year period.  This is NOT enough time to diagnoisis AD/HD or any other mental "illness" (for lack of better terms).

Thanks for your imput, we will be going there today and I will try to check the board later.

[msme]

I have never heard of adderal being used with Stratera. Stratera is the only ADHD med that is not an anphetamine. It does not work on everyone but the ones it does work for, get great results. But no child should be getting any meds without proper diagnosis. You are right. ADHD cannot be diagnosed with such casual contact.

GP's are really not supposed to diagnose ADHD. I wouldn't play all my cards up front. Just get a copy of the record & see if he has the psych report. Just be nice concerned parents.

Also, the reason there may not be any more meds is because the doc may have just given her some samples. I still can't figure out the combination. That is something that wouldn't be done as a trial. It might happen after several trials on the different drugs, if an effective result wasn't found.

Perhaps some of the other parents who also have experience with ADHD treatment can post some more info. But the bottom line is the expert's report that says he doesn't have it. She may not have showed it to him. That sounds like it would be grounds for a change in custody.

Good luck & God bless.

You never get a second chance to make a first impression!

[swilloug]

You may be right about the samples.  We will hopefully find out today.

I don't know enough about meds for AD/HD but I do know (since my mom is an RN) the have to be given every day and then slowly taken off.

BTW GP's can diagnosis mental disorders it is in their training, I work for the membership organization that helps these doctors fight this kind of thing.  But the thing is that we have to make sure he had all the information and proper diagnosis to treat AD/HD.

Thanks for your help.

[Kitty C.]

First of all, the doc could ONLY give samples on the Strattera, since it is not a controlled substance.  He canNOT do that with the Adderall and if he does, he needs to be reported to the state medical board.

Another thing you need to find out, which IMO is more important than how he came up with that diagnosis, is WHAT HIS CREDENTIALS ARE to even be able to diagnose.  What testing he did to come to that conclusion.....because I can guarantee you that he did no testing whatsoever.

What state do you live in that GP's can diagnose mental disorders?  I've never heard of it before, and I've been in healthcare for 20 years, plus DS was diagnosed 8 years ago with AD/HD.....we've been thru a LOT of this, including DS being involved in the clinical trials for atomoxitine/Strattera.  Regardless of whether he's allowed to make the diagnosis, he CANNOT make it soley by interviewing the child.  A sound diagnosis cannot be complete without thorough testing, feedback from teachers (before and after starting meds), and feedback from the parents (b&a).

To tell you the truth, if it were me, I'd be raising holy he!! with that doc and the BM, and filing an emergency order that he cannot be given meds for this unless he's been thoroughly tested by someone who 'specializes' in ADD/ADHD.  

As for the tapering off, that is only with one classification of ADD/ADHD psychotropic meds, the ones that are used for other mental disorders as well.  The standard ADD/ADHD meds (Ritalin, Concerta, Adderall, Strattera) do not require a tapering off, since they are extremely short-acting to begin with.  I could give DS his Adderall XR (extended release, supposed to last 8 hours) this morning and if a tox screen was performed tonight, you won't find a trace of it in his system.  The only ones you need to be worried about are the psychotropic drugs that have to be built up in the system.  Patients DO have to be weaned off of those, so that they do not become suicidal, as most of these drugs are also used in the treatment of depression.

I also strongly recommend educating yourselves on this and finding another professional to have your son evaluated and tested.

[swilloug]

We just got back from 150 mile round trip to the Doctors office, school, attorney, and psycologist.

When you write "GP" I think of a Family Physician and they do have training in mental health.

Regardless the doctor did back down and applogize and said he would not administer an other AD/HD medication to SS.  He said his baisis was on BM "testimony" only and he had no idea that a licenced psycologist had already ruled out AD/HD.  We let him know today.

We are in Missouri and apparently it doesn't matter that the BM does whatever she wants without consulting BF and followin the court order.

Our attorney says this "bad but good," meaning it is bad for SS but good for our case.  But if we had the to pick between SS well being and winning this case we definitely would not have picked him to take medication he doesn't need.

Our attorney told us if we find out BM is taking SS to different doctor and getting meds prescribe we will push the court to do something, but as of today the judge said he could not tell BM she couldn't take him to the doctor or administer medication.

We will see,  BM will have a rude awakening when her attorney and the GAL gets a hold of this information.

Wish us luck and thank you!

[Kitty C.]

I know you said that GP's have training, but think carefully on this.  This is a diagnosis that is bantered around WAY too much nowadays and there are MILLIONS of kids out there who are being prescribed high powered drugs from GP's who do NOT specialize in this, and probably don't need the drugs, just like your SS.  

Any parent who asks me, I tell them you MUST have your child tested and diagnosed by a SPECIALIST ONLY!  Someone who deals ONLY with kids and their mental health issues and specifically with ADD/ADHD.  They are the only ones who are up on the latest studies, newest drugs (there are more poised to come out that are not controlled substances), and current testing methods.

I cannot emphasize this enough, as too many kids are being used by the system and too many parents (like your SS's BM) and teachers are too quick to get these kids on meds just because they can't parent or teach effectively.  And there's TOO many docs out there who really have no idea how much this field is constantly changing...no GP or family doc could possibly keep up with it in the detail it needs, along with everything else they need to stay current on.

I'm just gald you go thtis guy to back off on the drugs.  IMO, he has absolutely NO business prescribing them......and to admit that he was doing it on BM's word alone!  Any self-respecting pediatric psychologist or psyciatrist would have told her to go blow!   Well.....maybe not in so many words, but you get the idea, LOL!

[Imom]

(Edited it to show at the end bm would Not bring ss in to the office)


I am in no way disagreing with you. We were in the wrong too (but did not know) at first. Dh is the cp of ss, and although he had ss interviewed by a tharipst before ss was put on meds., he did not consult bm. We were not aware he was to, if you see his co you would know why. It was not explained to either of them that they had to. they did their own co, but man if you seen it you would laugh. We do know, she still does not but we know we do, anyway. The thing is I  was told different is, dh asked our doc if there was a way to tell if bm gave him his meds, he said once he returned he could run a blood test (we never did though, as we figured it was bm's choice). Anyway something else it does show in the medical records so, Bm lives in Mississippi, once ss went there for the summer (the first summer after being put on meds 7months after) he was changed to starttera, which she does have that right. But the records show that ss was not on any other meds. (but he was) bm only stated she felt he had adhd, they did not send for his records here, so a ped. doc. have him strattera, but like it was stated on here they have some study in the filed, but he never even to this day goes to a tharipst there in Miss. (she has him 9 weeks in the summer).  I just wanted to say I guess this happens alot. Please I hope no one gets us wrong, Mom is allowed to make decissions, and we don't push that (her to inform us), because we falied to inform her first (although that was over two years ago). I forgot, I don't know how this looks but.......Just this past summer we had about 3 weeks of meds for bm, two weeks after that she calls and said the state of Miss messed everyones medicade up and kicked everyone off and wanted dh to pay for it but her doc. wouldnot give ss the meds. we have ss on because the doc. has never given it to anyone because he never had heard of it. (concerta). So I wanted to know for sure what was going on, So I called the doc's office, We were informed YES the doc knows what concerta is...................he wouldn't give it to ss because ss had not been in the office for a year he wanted to see ss first. Bm would not bring him in, so he just refilled the concerta. I still think thats wrong a year of not seeing ss and he still have him adhd meds??????

[swilloug]

Don't get me wrong I totally agree with checking with specialist but there are many Family Docs trained to do mental health.  I know that it is hard to imagine one doctor being able to do everthing but they are out there mostly in rural areas but they are out there.

I would never put my daughter on daily medication unless I had at least 2 opinions and one would be a specialist.  

I am confident that this doctor is shaking in his boots considering he would not speak with us at all, and told us to make an appointment.  It didn't take more than a couple of minutes for him to change his tune and return and say to give him a few minutes and he would meet with us.  I personally don't take any doctors word all the time.  We are all human and make mistakes.  I have dealt with very good doctors and fought for what I knew and believed to be correct.  We as parents know our children better than anyone and doctors need to listen to us more.  

BUT, and that is a big but...in some cases (as in this one) the parent (BM) has lied to get whatever it is that she is wanting from the medication.  

Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought a mother would want to give thier own child daily medication that was not needed.

I think this doctor now understands (we hope anyway) that he can NOT go off the word of a parent.  The Family Doctor knew my SS was in counciling but did not check with the psycologist and this is just outrages to me, but who am I to say anything I am just the step-"monster."

[smtotwo]

We recently had a problem at my sons school where one of the kids had been diagnosed ADHD and was on medication.

However, he was still acting up in school.  Turned out that his Mom had been using his medication.

Just a thought.

[msme]

Kitty, I know you are the tops on these issues on here but I do know that here in Texas, the manufacturers are permitted to give the doctors what is called a starter pack. It is a complete package with information about the drug, a booklet for the child that explains about taking it & what to expect & a one month supply.


I know that Concerta has one, & Stratera because we have gotten both of those, as DGD's treatment progressed. I am not sure about the others.

You never get a second chance to make a first impression!

[Kitty C.]

I hope for your sake you're right..........family docs may have 'training', but if they don't have the additional initials to put behind their names to prove that they are certified and licensed to do that, you're taking taking a VERY big risk in getting a mental health diagnosis from them.  They are VERY good at referring......they ARE specifically trained to see the signs, but that is about the extent of it.  They have no idea how to test, nor have the testing capabilities, to judge as to what extent and actuall specifics are involved in the illness.  Only a specialist is capable of that.

I work at a major university teaching and research hospital, I can just imagine how much this doc is 'shaking in his boots'.......because by all intents and purposes, he ought to be reported to the state medical board and have his license suspended for what he did and, more specifically, HOW he did it.  It's just that there are SO many mental illnesses out there and there's no way a GP would have full knowledge, nor the space for all the testing equipment necessary to diagnose them all.

Never in ANY of our wildest dreams would any of us believe that a mother would do all the things we've all seen happen to our kids/s-kids.  You have a right to be outraged and I would seriously consider having him reported to the state medical board.  If he did this with your SS, who knows how many other kids are on these powerful drugs and SHOULDN'T be..........

[swilloug]

We think BM may have received word about not giving the drugs to SS.  She was kind of short on the phone.  No skin off my back.

We have to keep pushing until we get him safe!

Thanks again.

[Kitty C.]

Yup, news to me!  I find it hard to believe that they can do that with Concerta, a controlled substance, but then again they've gotten medical marijuana legalized in some states, too!

Heck, the pharmacy wouldn't even take back the crumbled Ritalin (I used to have to cut pills in half), they said it was against the law.......I'm presuming at least here in Iowa.  And you wouldn't believe the hoops you have to jump thru to get a vacation script filled, anything longer than 30 days.  Sometimes it was easier to get it filled myself and ship it out to DS when he'd be with his dad in the summer!

[swilloug]

We just got back from 150 mile round trip to the Doctors office, school, attorney, and psycologist.

When you write "GP" I think of a Family Physician and they do have training in mental health.

Regardless the doctor did back down and applogize and said he would not administer an other AD/HD medication to SS.  He said his baisis was on BM "testimony" only and he had no idea that a licenced psycologist had already ruled out AD/HD.  We let him know today.

We are in Missouri and apparently it doesn't matter that the BM does whatever she wants without consulting BF and followin the court order.

Our attorney says this "bad but good," meaning it is bad for SS but good for our case.  But if we had the to pick between SS well being and winning this case we definitely would not have picked him to take medication he doesn't need.

Our attorney told us if we find out BM is taking SS to different doctor and getting meds prescribe we will push the court to do something, but as of today the judge said he could not tell BM she couldn't take him to the doctor or administer medication.

We will see,  BM will have a rude awakening when her attorney and the GAL gets a hold of this information.

Wish us luck and thank you!

[Kitty C.]

I know you said that GP's have training, but think carefully on this.  This is a diagnosis that is bantered around WAY too much nowadays and there are MILLIONS of kids out there who are being prescribed high powered drugs from GP's who do NOT specialize in this, and probably don't need the drugs, just like your SS.  

Any parent who asks me, I tell them you MUST have your child tested and diagnosed by a SPECIALIST ONLY!  Someone who deals ONLY with kids and their mental health issues and specifically with ADD/ADHD.  They are the only ones who are up on the latest studies, newest drugs (there are more poised to come out that are not controlled substances), and current testing methods.

I cannot emphasize this enough, as too many kids are being used by the system and too many parents (like your SS's BM) and teachers are too quick to get these kids on meds just because they can't parent or teach effectively.  And there's TOO many docs out there who really have no idea how much this field is constantly changing...no GP or family doc could possibly keep up with it in the detail it needs, along with everything else they need to stay current on.

I'm just gald you go thtis guy to back off on the drugs.  IMO, he has absolutely NO business prescribing them......and to admit that he was doing it on BM's word alone!  Any self-respecting pediatric psychologist or psyciatrist would have told her to go blow!   Well.....maybe not in so many words, but you get the idea, LOL!

[Imom]

(Edited it to show at the end bm would Not bring ss in to the office)


I am in no way disagreing with you. We were in the wrong too (but did not know) at first. Dh is the cp of ss, and although he had ss interviewed by a tharipst before ss was put on meds., he did not consult bm. We were not aware he was to, if you see his co you would know why. It was not explained to either of them that they had to. they did their own co, but man if you seen it you would laugh. We do know, she still does not but we know we do, anyway. The thing is I  was told different is, dh asked our doc if there was a way to tell if bm gave him his meds, he said once he returned he could run a blood test (we never did though, as we figured it was bm's choice). Anyway something else it does show in the medical records so, Bm lives in Mississippi, once ss went there for the summer (the first summer after being put on meds 7months after) he was changed to starttera, which she does have that right. But the records show that ss was not on any other meds. (but he was) bm only stated she felt he had adhd, they did not send for his records here, so a ped. doc. have him strattera, but like it was stated on here they have some study in the filed, but he never even to this day goes to a tharipst there in Miss. (she has him 9 weeks in the summer).  I just wanted to say I guess this happens alot. Please I hope no one gets us wrong, Mom is allowed to make decissions, and we don't push that (her to inform us), because we falied to inform her first (although that was over two years ago). I forgot, I don't know how this looks but.......Just this past summer we had about 3 weeks of meds for bm, two weeks after that she calls and said the state of Miss messed everyones medicade up and kicked everyone off and wanted dh to pay for it but her doc. wouldnot give ss the meds. we have ss on because the doc. has never given it to anyone because he never had heard of it. (concerta). So I wanted to know for sure what was going on, So I called the doc's office, We were informed YES the doc knows what concerta is...................he wouldn't give it to ss because ss had not been in the office for a year he wanted to see ss first. Bm would not bring him in, so he just refilled the concerta. I still think thats wrong a year of not seeing ss and he still have him adhd meds??????

[swilloug]

Don't get me wrong I totally agree with checking with specialist but there are many Family Docs trained to do mental health.  I know that it is hard to imagine one doctor being able to do everthing but they are out there mostly in rural areas but they are out there.

I would never put my daughter on daily medication unless I had at least 2 opinions and one would be a specialist.  

I am confident that this doctor is shaking in his boots considering he would not speak with us at all, and told us to make an appointment.  It didn't take more than a couple of minutes for him to change his tune and return and say to give him a few minutes and he would meet with us.  I personally don't take any doctors word all the time.  We are all human and make mistakes.  I have dealt with very good doctors and fought for what I knew and believed to be correct.  We as parents know our children better than anyone and doctors need to listen to us more.  

BUT, and that is a big but...in some cases (as in this one) the parent (BM) has lied to get whatever it is that she is wanting from the medication.  

Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought a mother would want to give thier own child daily medication that was not needed.

I think this doctor now understands (we hope anyway) that he can NOT go off the word of a parent.  The Family Doctor knew my SS was in counciling but did not check with the psycologist and this is just outrages to me, but who am I to say anything I am just the step-"monster."

[smtotwo]

We recently had a problem at my sons school where one of the kids had been diagnosed ADHD and was on medication.

However, he was still acting up in school.  Turned out that his Mom had been using his medication.

Just a thought.

[msme]

Kitty, I know you are the tops on these issues on here but I do know that here in Texas, the manufacturers are permitted to give the doctors what is called a starter pack. It is a complete package with information about the drug, a booklet for the child that explains about taking it & what to expect & a one month supply.


I know that Concerta has one, & Stratera because we have gotten both of those, as DGD's treatment progressed. I am not sure about the others.

You never get a second chance to make a first impression!

[Kitty C.]

I hope for your sake you're right..........family docs may have 'training', but if they don't have the additional initials to put behind their names to prove that they are certified and licensed to do that, you're taking taking a VERY big risk in getting a mental health diagnosis from them.  They are VERY good at referring......they ARE specifically trained to see the signs, but that is about the extent of it.  They have no idea how to test, nor have the testing capabilities, to judge as to what extent and actuall specifics are involved in the illness.  Only a specialist is capable of that.

I work at a major university teaching and research hospital, I can just imagine how much this doc is 'shaking in his boots'.......because by all intents and purposes, he ought to be reported to the state medical board and have his license suspended for what he did and, more specifically, HOW he did it.  It's just that there are SO many mental illnesses out there and there's no way a GP would have full knowledge, nor the space for all the testing equipment necessary to diagnose them all.

Never in ANY of our wildest dreams would any of us believe that a mother would do all the things we've all seen happen to our kids/s-kids.  You have a right to be outraged and I would seriously consider having him reported to the state medical board.  If he did this with your SS, who knows how many other kids are on these powerful drugs and SHOULDN'T be..........

[swilloug]

We think BM may have received word about not giving the drugs to SS.  She was kind of short on the phone.  No skin off my back.

We have to keep pushing until we get him safe!

Thanks again.

[Kitty C.]

Yup, news to me!  I find it hard to believe that they can do that with Concerta, a controlled substance, but then again they've gotten medical marijuana legalized in some states, too!

Heck, the pharmacy wouldn't even take back the crumbled Ritalin (I used to have to cut pills in half), they said it was against the law.......I'm presuming at least here in Iowa.  And you wouldn't believe the hoops you have to jump thru to get a vacation script filled, anything longer than 30 days.  Sometimes it was easier to get it filled myself and ship it out to DS when he'd be with his dad in the summer!