Visitation

[pgh115]

Here is my situation . Before i found out that my daughter was acutually mine her mother moved to flordia. My daughter was born in New York and the child support  is ran threw the erie county cp. Now that my daughter is two the cost of plane rids down and back are costing to much and i cant afford to go and bring her home as much as i need too. There was no visitation set up threw any court, I tried to get visitation threw buffalo courts and they told me i had to file in flordia,. My child support was modified just a little for cost of transportation not enough to offset the cost. Her mother is a monster everytime i have my daughter and im sick and tired of having to ask to see my daughter whenever i can scrounge up the $600-800 it cost for me to go and get her. Is there anything i can do to get her to pay the cost of travel because she decided to move 1500 miles away?  Not to mention shes still getting full child support when i have her for 5 weeks at a time.  Is there  something i can do about that?Im going to a fathers rights group wednesday to see what my options are, im missing out on alot of important time with my daughter. Everytime i go and get her I have to reintroduce my self to her and it just isnt fare for me or her. I really cant afford to hire a lawer to fight this any suggestions would be helpfull thanks!!

[ocean]

Your child support is still through NY? As far as i know you would have to get visits through NY unless the mother gets it switched to Florida...
Find out what court you need to go to and file for visitation...with dates and times. At the same time you can ask for a child support modification for visiting costs (and put in there mother moved away from homestate).

You need to come up with a schedule that you can live by and what happens when child gets to school age. Get it all in there so you dont have to go back...school vacations, summer visits, fathers day weekend,
There are many schedules on this site...find one that is good for you and ask for that in your papers (ask for more so you can barter with some).
Good luck..

[MixedBag]

Here's the thing -- if Mom is resisting your presence in your child's life, the state in which she lives will have the most "power" and personal jurisdiction over her to get her to comply.

Jurisdiction:  You don't say where you live.

My stuff is long distance too.  And I kinda chuckle at my EX#2 about this subject.  WE lived in WV.  We divorced in WV.  The military moved me TO WV and FROM WV to here, AL.  So I don't 100% buy in my case the "you moved, you pay" theory.  But anyways, I would agree that most folks have experienced the "you move, you pay" theory.

Jurisidiction:  Two summers ago, I became the primary residential parent and brought our son to Alabama.  EX#2 desparately wanted me to agree in writing to keep jurisdiction in WV.  Both he and our judge said that "6 months after our son moved, jurisdiciton would change."  I said "I disagree and promise to keep jurisdiction in WV BECAUSE I want the court to retain all the history."  (Yes, tons of bad history).  So, even though that was almost 2 years ago, I didn't change jurisdictions etc.

Now here comes Dad with a motion to change custody back.  In his opening letter he said something like that he reviewed all the laws and jurisdiction should in fact be WV.    And that's the part that made me chuckle.

See...Dad never left WV, and it's my interpretation that BOTH parents must move away from the original jurisdiction before the custodial parent can move it to where the child lives now.

So -- if you're in NY, but Buffalo said they didn't want to touch it, then you have one of two choices:

1.  Appeal their decision regarding jurisdiction

2.  File in Florida.

Number one will mean you are not moving the subject of "getting to know your daughter" any closer to getting resolved because you're addressing jurisdiction first.

Number two will mean you are moving closer on the subject of your daughter.

And your opportunity or timeframe within which to appeal might have actually expired.

Cost of transportation?

I too paid to get our son to come see me -- 6 round trip tickets in the first years, or 4 days of driving 12 hours and 2 nights in a hotel.  Take your pick.  But I knew this was an expense that should be top priority and saved for each trip and made it happen.

If there is no "long distance" parenting plan in place, I suggest you file to have one put in place and start by reading over the samples here at the site.  (well, I hope they're still here!).

None of us are attorney's here -- so we can't help draw up paperwork and stuff like that, but we can share our experience and give advice based on that.

[*iLUVmySD*]

So do you even have any existing custody/visitation order? It is not necessarily the same thing as a child support order.  Were you ever married to your daughter's mother?  My husband filed for custody in Arizona when there was an existing child support order in Nevada.  My husband and his daughter's mother were never married and she didn't know that custody and child support are two separate things.  He ended up getting primary custody in Arizona even though the child support case still stays in Nevada until BM has moved out of the state.  If you can answer the above questions, I may be able to give you helpful information from my experience as applicable.

[pgh115]

I was never married to my daughters mother. I live in new york Where my daughter was born. I didnt even know that my daughter was acutally mine untill a year after she was born. There is no vistation order, the only court paperwork that has been addressed in this case is the childsupport. I dont have much money left over (after paying my $189 dollar weekly child support bill) to do much else then pay my living expences and save for the next trip down to flordia.  Another issue that i am having is last year my taxes and stimulus check was seized by flordia , a year later new york finally desided to credit me some  the sized money to my account, in the mean time my arrears were paid in full and they coutinued taking the extra portion for only about another year! They send me $150  check whenever they feel like it and they still havent even applied the full amount that was seized by flordia.  If faxed them,wrote them, went to there office still nothing What a joke huh? Atleast ther not stealing the extra half finally. The wost part about it new york isnt even releasing all the funds to my ex, The payments to childsupport dont even match what ther dispursing to her. Aint that something!!!!! Something needs to happen! and to top it all off I dont know  where my daughter is actual living address i have my exs mothers address but she currently isnt living there! Her mother hasnt even answered the phone in weeks  for me to talk to my child. 

Any simiar cases with the outcome would really be benificial to me! I know i have to fight the battle in flordia im going to spend my next visitation expences on a lawyer so i need to make it count! I prolly wont be seeing my daughter for 6 months or longer so.......there it is!!!!  Thank You too all that reply finally people that wont charge me to listen!

[*iLUVmySD*]

Okay well our case was a little different, but there were some similarities.  My husband the mother of his daughter were never married.  They both lived in Nevada. Child support was ordered to be payed to BM but no custody was ordered, it was just defaulted to her in the Nevada court for the purposes of child support.  When my SD was 2, my husband, then boyfriend, moved to Arizona with me.  Approximately 1-1/2 to 2 years after that, BM sent my SD down to live with us on a "temporary" basis provided my husband still pay BM child support.  If he didn't pay then BM threatened to pick up my SD.  This went on for 2 years until we finally had money to hire an attorney.  Eventually we figured out that after talking to several attorneys in Nevada and in Arizona, that there was no existing custody/visitation order and that he could file for custody in Arizona.  We ended up filing for an emergency hearing because BM was seriously threatening to pick up my SD because the IRS had not garnished my husband's tax return for the previous year for arrears on child support.  The judge ordered that my SD remain in Arizona with us.  BM did not have a lawyer and my husband and her ended up settling in mediation.  With regards to the child support once he had a court order saying he had custody he immediately sent that to the CSE in Nevada.  They stopped the ongoing support but said that they couldn't give him credit for the past two years of paying BM child support while still taking care of his daughter. Since then they have continued to garnish his portion of our tax return for the arrears because BM wouldn't forgive it even though she was receiving support for no child for 2 years.  As far as visitation expenses in regards to child support Nevada claimed that BM got credit for visitation expenses with along with some other factors reduced her child support obligation to $0.  Nevada did not give my husband any credit because we pay the other half of the visitation expenses because he was the one that moved from Nevada even though BM voluntarily sent my SD to live here too.

In regards to your situation based on this experience, you will have to file for custody/visitation in Florida assuming your daughter has been there for more than 6 months. I would think since your daughter's mother created the distance that you should get credit for child support, but the problem is that there is no custody/visitation order so having a set schedule may help put a more exact amount on the cost for seeing your daughter that should be credited to your support payments.  As far as finding where they are living I would start with the CSE that is paying her your support.  They must have some idea as to where she is in order to pay her.  With regards to your garnished taxes, the CSE is required to hold the money for 6 months as a precaution in case any of the money was taken in error (like if there is a spouse that is entitled to a portion of it, etc).  It is always better to be the first to file for custody/visitation and a lawyer is necessary especially for fathers.  In the meantime document everything, keep everything, and do some research online on the laws in Florida before talking to a lawyer.  Being organized and having an idea of your plan of attack may help you save costs.   Good luck.

[Davy]

NY and only NY is clearly the Home state and will remain the home state as long as you remain a resident of NY unless YOU relinqish home state jurisdiction by responding to FL or filing in FL.  FL has no judicial standing to hear any matters concerning your child.   

If anyone including judges, lawyers or someone posting on an internet board says otherwise then are saying so with ignorance or based on a 'social experience'.  Please verify by researching articles on this site concerning "The Parental Kidnapping Prevention Act" and/or "The Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction Act".

The 6 month rule acts like a marker to prevent illegal filings and a source of argument, pardon me, source of income for for the legal profession and the judicary.

[ocean]

It sounds like NY is not going to take jurisdiction since the child has been in Fla. There is no current order so there is not parental kidnapping here...BM did not break any laws since they have no papers with any court. They were never married so mother could move with child. (not that it is right). He could have filed a emergency hearing to stop the move and get custody established with visitation. How long ago did she move to Florida...sounds like a while?

[Davy]

Ocean is referring to bias and prejudiced social policies rather than legal statues which  exist to protect children that have no voice.  The statues do not address marriage and the presence or lack of court orders is not the determining factor.

[*iLUVmySD*]

As far as I understand it (and I re-read it to make sure), The Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction Act does not dictate that NY has jurisdiction since there is no order regarding custody/visitation.  The Uniform Interstate Family Support Act does apply for the existing child support order.  And NY will continue to have exclusive continuing jurisdiction until father consents to move the jurisdiction to another state or he moves from the state.

This is the "ignorance" that is accepted by judges, lawyers, and many others from my "social experience" with both acts and you would most likely be hard pressed to convince the courts otherwise as previously suggested.  But again I would recommend familiarizing yourself with both of these laws before you talk to a lawyer.

[MomofTwo]

I think MixedBag gave you some good information....since NY has already denied your request for jurisdiction you can proceed one of two ways...

1) Appeal that decision if the time hasn't passed or
2) File in FL

Appeals can be lengthy and expensive and typically have to be based on court or procedural error, not just because you don't like their decision.  The longer you are fighting with NY, the longer you are losing time filing for time with your child.

FL courts will have more power and input over her and your child and will have the power to enforce any orders that are set.

Regarding travel costs - it could go either way, but from what I have seen in FL courts, since there are currently no visitation orders and this would be starting from day one for these orders and she resides in FL now, they may in fact not order her to pay these costs. The distance (in their eyes) already exists so no distance is being created. You can always ask for these costs to be paid by her or to be shared, you won't get them unless you file for it.

Regarding phone calls, you also need to file for specific telephone time. Without an order for it, Mom doesn't have to allow it.

If you can't afford an attorney, FL does have PRO SE assistance and their forms are online.  You can download the forms and read over everything then call the court house and ask them for their specific directions on how to file - they will tell you where to mail your filing, how many copies, ...

Many people file successfully pro se in FL.

[pgh115]

Here is the thing i didnt even know i had a daughter so i couldent even defend myself and my daughter from leaving. The fact of the matter  is that i am jut now learning what to do i just found this website earler this week and joined  a fathers Rights program, i am about to start fighting this to the death and im taking all the information that i learn fopr the next few weeks to get a jump to hopefully save me some cash. What is a website that i can best find the best questions to ask any suggestions?

[ocean]

Call the county in florida that you think your child lives in...family court. See how you can file. You may be able to start the process through the mail but then you will have to serve her. There are service companies that you can hire to serve her but you are going to need where she lives/works.
Also do not pay any lawyer in NY for a florida case...be careful. If NY already told you no they wont take the case you really need a florida lawyer to represent you...

[goost]

First thing yopu need to do is get 3 certified copies of your visitation order from new york then you must have them domesticated to the county she lives in at the clerks office. now you will be eligible for court appointed visitation and negotiation for expenses

[Davy]

 
I didn't want to get into this ... you have received horrific advice from these posters.  At this point it is probably best you research UCCJA and PKPA Supreme court rulings and moreover, the reason these statues exist.  The FR organization (probably with both male and female advocates) may be able to assist and guide you.   Once familiar with the legal statues then decide the capabilities you are seeking from legal representation and interview accordingly.  If you are fortunate you will find a child oriented rule of law type that will not just go along with rubbered stamped mother superior democracy.  In the day (mother custody 97.5%) I found 2 in as many long-distance calls thru the IL State Bar association.  One I met face-to-face for approx. 20 minutes when I hand carried my case files to him and the other I never personally met.  Both were outstanding lawyers.  $750 for one and $3500 for the other but he recused a judge and stopped the state court from ever again having anything to do with my children or myself.

Jurisdictional litigation is much much cheaper than Custody since the black and white statues are not left up to the bias discretion of a judge ...  If the judge invokes his bias and prejudices or can not read then the federal statues PKPA are invoked and you don't have to dance around with the appelattes or supremes. 

I think it is suspect that this poster was to go to FL as the result of jurisdictional arguments (UCCJA not invoked) but more likely some smart-ass remark by a judge or court clerk.  Is there a ruling in writing that NY has declined jurisdiction ?  Does not sound like it and I doubt it.  Some of the main reasons these statues exist is to prevent a parent from abscounding with children to a different state resulting in favorable custody decisions, excessive legal fees, etc. and to avoid judicial competition.  Are you suggesting that it is OK to not return a child home because court orders are non-exsistent ??  I hope not,  It is absolutely ludicrous to consider marriage, non-existent court orders, or to imply the foreign state has more 'power' over the abductor. What BS.   Children have a right to a relationship with both parents and to be supported by both parents rather that forcing the labors of one parent to finance the legal possession.   Particularly in Florida, an out of state father has absolutely no standing and children's life have been seriously depleted.

A Parental abduction is not to far away from a stranger abduction especially when considering the exploitation of children.  The system only wants to address "CS" (unless the children are with the father) and maybe "visitation isues".   

My children and I prevailed under the UCCJA statues in two states (TX and IL) and in Federal court under the PKPA statues.  In IL one judge was recused for being bias and prejudice against myself and my children.  We scoffed at referring to dad as "NCP".  I was always "Dad" even when I had the societal label "CP" .  You might say I had been promoted from the "dxxk head" I was called as an ncp.


Generally speaking, an opponent can file you to death in an out of state court.   You will be at the beck and call of a Florida court where your opponent will have a leg up usually at the great detriment to your child and you and for years to come.  The comment about filing "pro se' " is a joke and a farce.  BambiPambi.  That is serious business and not just complying with the court and filing their on-line form...being every body's friend.  (For God's sake this is about children not a traffic ticket).  BTDT many times. Geesh !!

Hope this post helps clarifies the erroneous postings and the "ignorance" that is accepted by judges, lawyers, and many others from her "social experience" with both acts (no PKPA experience) and you would most likely be hard pressed to convince the courts otherwise as previously suggested.  OMG !

There's much more but one thing that is important for some to try to understand ... success was partially due to the many women and mothers (I did not know) that stepped forward on behalf of my precious children.  This site is about children ... please get on board. 

Hoping the best for this child.

[ocean]

Davy-
I understand that there are laws but they can be interpreted in many ways. I dont know all the answers but have dealt with the NY system for 15 years. You have to deal with the judge before your case and that is it. Our lawyer fought hard but it takes a lot of money and TIME to fight the system that just does not work and relies heavily on individual judges views. You can appeal but judges stick together unless there was an obvious case of misuse.

I think the orginial poster does not want to fight the sytem and prove anything, just see his child. He needs to do it how they want him or he will be fighting for years in court. I admire you for going after the laws we have and changing some of it but some of us just want to see our kids and not fight the big fight.

[MomofTwo]

Davy
All due respect, the poster clearly said in his first posts NY would not accept jurisdiction and  was told he had to file in FL. Depending on the timeline, can either appeal that or if too much time has lapsed, he has to file in FL.   He also said he doesn't have money to fight that and ONLY wants to file to get to see his child.   Your comment regarding Pro Se being mambi pambi or whatever term you want is ridiculous to criticize when it could be the one solution he has to get things rolling to see his child. Should he have representation, probably yes, but he already clearly said he can't afford it.

Perhaps you won, perhaps you had the financial means to fight the big fight and go on a crusade, but not everyone wants that nor can do that. You are not helping this person but being criticizing and flippant for people who are only trying to help.

[Davy]

What I read is that the OP was in a CS hearing and asked about visitation and was told he had to go to FL.  It was not a jurisdictional hearing.  And to even suggest an out-of state father can file O/L Pro se and they will tell him how many copies he needs, etc is bizzard.  What is this father going to do or say when he misses 2 -3 days work and has extraordinary travel expenses to a FL whorehouse then some former NY cabbie in a black FL robe tells him he will have supervised  1 hr visitation every two weeks.

This mother hands are dirty...the father didn't know he had a child until the mother was close to Cuba and she needed money.  Did she relocate for a job ?  Probably not.  Can she provide for the child ?  Apparently not.  Did she care about the long-term well-being of the child and understand the importance of a child having two parents in their life ?  No.  Was the mother only thinking only of herself ?  Absolutely.  Does it appear the government promotes the mother's bad behavior and seeks to disenfranchise the father from the child ?  So far.  Is the child endangered ?  Probably.  Is the government going to protect the child.  Absolutely not.  I and others could go on ... there should be hope that the daughter can even be located !!  I think you all post with your selp-imposed female superior mind-set  and totally disregard that this child is at risk in most circles.

It appears to me this father is solid and the child's best chance at life he's doing the best he can toward that end and to be a part of the child's life.

All this advice about timeline ... appealing in NY ... must file if FL is completely bogus.  That's exactly why the PKPA exist and your advice may financially drain this father and he may NEVER SEE HIS CHILD AGAIN.  All your blue sky Disney Land advise seriously ....es .. off.
It is like you're reading from your feminist playbooks written in the NY senate, shipped to Cook county IL for binding to be dstributed by the FL DCFS.

With out knowing anything about the NY Injustice system, my overall opinion and best effort for this father is to try to quickly determine NY jurisdiction by the statues not social policy then if need be relocate to FL (it is very corrupt like IL ) and move across the street from the kidnapper if he can find her.  This is an expensive walk in the swamp no matter where the daughter can be found. 

Concerning me being on a Crusade and winning big with a lot of money.  The wife's parent had truly big $$$ and a lot of IL political clout.    I remember participating with Dallas TFER, an orgainization of women and men whose endeavors were for children.  SORRY YOU MISSED IT !!  I remember being gainfully employed ... able to eat a meal twice a week and hand carrying a check to the CS office.  The CS clerks would ask what the extra 2 cents was for and then gackle when I told them I wanted to get my 2 cents in somewhere.  My specialized Tx atty (1984) wanted 50K upfront and said the case would cost between 75K and 125K dependent on how the other side reacted. He also said the PKPA only worked for females in the Republic.   So I took 2 more cents and had to enter IL to argue jurisdiction in a county I or the kids had never been or lived before and the wife had only been there approx. 10 days then there was the next county and another all while maintaining a legitmate action in TX.  Evidentally the authorities called for me  to get my two oldest out of county jail where they had been placed for their own safety after being beaten in their HOME again.  They would have started a riot in juvie.  She was a varsity cheerleader and he was a first ever varsity starter as a freshman. 

The rest is somewhat unprintable.  I strongly suggest you kick off your goodie two shoes ...grab both ears and ..... never mind ... ya'll are clue less

[Davy]

AND... I really have a very hard time understanding why there are people out there thinking they are helping parents and children while the child(ren) has been put up for sale by one parent with the assistance and promotion of corrupt government systems.

A lot of children have suffered (and still are) because of this corruption for the government inept control of the masses.   This is not a Crusade per se or about winning the big fight.
It's a war within our own government about human decency and a quality way of life for the people.  Protection of  children is upfront and formost.  Hopefully ya'll will get on board for our own future existence. 

[*iLUVmySD*]

Davy,

It is apparent from your posts that you have had a tough time of it and are very jaded regarding the current legal system.  I think it is great that you are an advocate to try to change the wrong you see in it, but that road is not for everyone.  The truth is this person most likely needs a lawyer which most people on this board are not.  If you are a lawyer, then great feel free to feel a notion of superiority over everyone else here, but until then everyone has had different experience and the resulting advice is based on each individual's experience.  Disagreeing with advice given is fine, but you continually try to make it a personal attack instead of professional criticism which is uncalled for.  We are all people trying to help the children here; we are all here to put the children first.

[Kitty C.]

That's why we all need to not only stay active here to help those in their fight, but also do all we can to change the laws.  Bottom line, if the laws don't change to keep government influence in families as minimal as possible, nothing will change.  And we will keep fighting and trying and helping here as long as it takes.

One thing I have learned, not only here but in life in general, is that what may have worked for one like a charm may have disasterous effects for another.  Which is why those who come here have a distinct advantage of getting multiple viewpoints and advice from all across the country and multiple jurisdictions.  Then they can tailor they fight to what works best for them.

[*iLUVmySD*]

Well said Kitty.

[MixedBag]

WOW!

Thanks for the vote of confidence MomofTwo.

pgh115:  do you still LIVE in the state of New York?

If you do, I actually agree with Davy that jurisdiction should be the state of New York.

HOWEVER, I think you're beyond that.

Well, maybe not.

You could file a motion with the state of New York SPECIFICALLY requesting that the court address the subject of jurisdiction like Davy suggested.  (IMHO, you would win).

In the meantime, you're not getting closer to having time with your child.

So it becomes a pick and choose -- what's more important to YOU?

EX#3 COULD have appealled OH's decision to move jurisdiction to NV, or he could go to NV and get in front of a judge where Mom lived.  He chose to go after his children vs. educating the OH judge on the fact that the judge was wrong.

[Davy]

You ladies are way out of hand with your 8th grade civic lessons (sorry Kitty) concerning civil obedience and rule of law, snide remarks (well said...,educating judges, vote of confidence ,etc).  Implying I might be an arrogant lawyer ... Just because I try to be polite and respectful (oh my, did I really say that).   

These matters are not about us .... you and me.  It is about children. 

In the beginning I spent nights and weekends in law libraries reading legal statues, case results, rulings and the like trying to find out why mothers were rewarded sole custody 97.5 % of the time.  Why fathers maybe became a visitor in their child's life if they paid enough money and the mother allowed it.  I am/was just a regular naive guy that knew nothing about divorce and custody ... didn't really personally know anybody that was divorced and only knew a few growing up whose parents were divorced.  But I could read .

I had a familiarty with the Virginia judicial system as a plantiff in a drunk driving case where as the drunk was defended in traffic court by the Attorney General of Virginia (really).  Fourth hearing after not showing up on the first three a young attorney stood when the case was called and reequested the case be postoned until later that day (courtroom empty) because he was meeting with US Senator so and so and dodah.  The witness, a police captain, and 3 LE officers with all the evidence (6 empty beer cans and a fifth with an inch of whisky left) were at each and every hearing.  Charges were reduced from DWI to Reckless and fined the least permitted by law $150 after the AG whispered in the judges ear. The civil suit was worst.  The judge dropped the punitive damages portion of the case because I was in the military and in chambers ordered myself and none of the witnesses (all LE) mention the alcohol or the accident itself (no pictures) because she admitted fault.  Her attorneys had a heyday pesenting me as a young buck trying to take advantage of a 65 year old grandma.
Military hospital to be awarded in a separate suit for my 3.5 month hospitalization.  Coma for 5 days .... Cadillac practically head on with VW.  The other patients were coming back from Nam with bullet-riddled bodies and missing limps, etc.  Once we became ambulatory we helped other patients from all over the country because nobody else would.  We were there thinking we were going to stop the injustices while our counter parts burned their bras on the state house steps. Precious daughter was 5 mos. old.  Please don't lecture me about the 'laws'.  I'm not jaded .... I know the truth.

Back to being naive.  I thought that surely family court would never be like my previous experience.  I would simply waltz in there to let the TX judge know I was the primary involved responsible parent (in school, etc) all their life since mother was never around in the evening hours and that the kids were all healthy, happy, athletic, scholarly kiddos.   Upon arrival, standing in the back of the court room listening to other cases, I soon learned my kids were in serious trouble.  Of course, Mother was IL temporary CP in her hometown jurisdiction after an original IL court held the case for 3 mos before ruling that
IL DID NOT HAVE ANY JURISDICTION OVER THE TX CHILDREN, or the TX father but would not release the case until the TX father filed for divorce in TX (not the law of course).  So here I am in the back of a TX court room to file for divorce claiming I don't believe in divorce.  I became TX temporary CP and the judge threw in there that neither parent was to have any adult of the opposite sex overnight in the presence of the children.  No order to return the children but after several attempts and a Federal order (PKPA; TX and ONLY TX IS the JURISDICTIONAL STATE) she finally appeared and became CP in the first five minutes of the hearing and I became NCP with one weekend a month visitation in mama's hometown because of the travel distance.  Under the Clean Hands Act (preamble of the PKPA) her hands were filfthy but the TX judge was pissed that a Federal judge had overridden his case.  YES AMAZING. 

With visitation in IL all atorneys (2 IL; 1 TX) advised me to forget about my kids and that they may come around when they become adults. IL attys advised I was walking on egg shells going into that county known for being very corrupt.  I followed God and went.  My mother was petrified.  Many visitation periods I ended up in the Police Station on trumped up accusations.   It all seemed to change one XMAS period at the Police Station with an assistant State's Attorney...just before instucting the officer to put me in a cell I suggested he should know I tape recorded the entire incident as I calmly displayed the recorder.   He pointed his finger in my face and said if I recorded him (brow beating,etc) he would cram it right up my ass.  I sat up pointed my finger in his face and said, without hesitation, I hadn't but if I had I would cram it right up his ass.  He stared at the ceiling for about 45 secs and the said go ahead and get out of here.  As i was leaving I said I kinda like it here.

After that LE and SA seemed all to be my friends.  What was really happening was that the kids were being abused in their home.  All 3 kids were visible in the community thru school and athletics and NOBODY WAS DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT, ALL HIDDEN NO CPS REPORTS.
Basically, all hell broke loose the following August.  On visitation, I simply asked YS (9) how was the 4th of July and he broke down (highly unusual for him). It was bad. 

Long story short, I came back to TX immediately found TX would not DO ANYTHING.  Made a phone call and got an IL job (ding ding IT consultant at IL DCFS) and came back to the same IL county (freind made CS payments in TX with my checks)  where the family had lived for years.  On 91st day (90 for residency) I filed in IL county.  Mama jumps on plane and gets TX judge to get permanent custody and I got 14 hour notice. Note that Federal court had previously ordered mama's corrupt county to NEVER AGAIN have any thing to do with kids.

In a few months, the authorities called for me to get the DAU (15) and OS (14) out of jail.
Both charged with assault to SF (6' 4"; 240 lps) ...both kids about 5'4 and 110 in good shape.  SP had OS on floor slapping around.  DAU wakens jumps into fray and also gets beaten.  OS get loose and grabs fireplace poker then chased SF from house.  Apparently typical behavior for SF and BM who does nothing to protect her children. The juvies (guns, knives, num chucks, fighting) are with me for months and things are getting better.  Psychiatrics, juvenile specialists, etc.  Serious threats from Dau boyfreind to OS and self.

SF's BM files Parental Termination against SF and BM. During trial I finally got to waltz but into the SA office and informed him I was taking the children BACK HOME to TX cuz if I did'nt someone was going to end up seriously injured or dead.  He was fully in agreement (he knew more that I) but only nodded ... no voice ... he remembered the tape recording.  NO Court Order.

Much thanks to the police officer that was terminated because he took Dau to hospital.
Two black eyes, both cheeks bruised, human bite on the thigh thru her levi's that broke the skin.  Thanks to Dallas TX Father's for Equal Rights and too many moms and dads in two states.  Thanks to a TX city PD, the schools and the church.  Most of all ... thank God. 

Back in TX.  Both sons graduated high school (late 80's early 90's) with some fuss from feminist in the schools and church because mama not around.  That was fun..  Attended college on athletic scholarship   (one NCAA div 1; freshman starter).  YS has a Master's in Biblical studies and pastored for approx 10 yrs before formimg a successful Lawn Care Landscaping company.  OS, the former hard core juvie is working on Master in theology and refuses to live in the USA (I wonder why).

BM convinced Dau to return to IL shortly after coming back to TX.  You really don't want to know.

Powerful Tx judge has been powerful SA for yrs.  Family law specialist that wanted 50K upfront rewrote family matter proceedures that has been adopted by two other counties. 

I beg everybody focus on children and not rely or depend on the courts or the social systems...they're all about defeating the family. power and money.

[MomofTwo]

Your story doesn't give you the right or expertise to criticize and be condescending to everyone else on this board.   You are not the sole matter expert in all things considered family law and specifically jurisdiction issues.

I am very sorry your children had to go through that, but that doesn't give you the right to be derrogatory to me or anyone else here or was simply offering advice based on our knowledge.

I don't think anyone believed you were an arrogant lawyer, but your posts clearly convey arrogance.

It would be helpful to posters and responders if you have a different point of view to simply outline what you feel are the best steps for that poster to take without criticizing everyone else's advice.

[Davy]

Again, this site is not about "Superior mother of Two".  It's about children.  I don't exist and neither do my children or YOUR children to promote your SELF SERVING EGO.  Get over yourself.

It is plain that you are not able to to understand the gist of my post.  Basically, it pointed out that our entire system is BROKEN due to bias and prejudices leading to dual standards. There is a great unncessary suffering due to this lack of jurispurdence and civility.  Children are vulnerable and placed at great risk.

Even with the long post it was just a brief narrative of the both the short and long term events and consequences. Much of what happened is unprintable and unbelievable.

Please do not continue to post advice that could very well prove to be a detriment to this child in exchange for a brief feel good result.

BTW, it is a good thing that I'm responding to your post rather than any of my children. 

[Kitty C.]

Davy,

This is getting out of hand.  Every single person here is here because of their children and for you to paint everyone but you with the same brush of self-interest is extremely narrow minded.  In your responses to this thread, I've noticed quite a bit of sarcasm and arrogance, which has no place in this forum, either.

I and everyone else here agree with you wholeheartedly that the system is broken....you're preaching to the choir here.  But, short of changing the laws (which should also be everyone's goal here), we have NO choice but to work with what we've got.  If two parents can come to an amicable agreement on custody, more power to them.  But when it becomes contentious, there is no other choice than court.  And given the disparity of laws and the way they are interpreted in any given jurisdiction, I still stand by my original statement that what may work for one may not work for another.  And in order to get an order that can be enforced, it has to be approved by the court.

Everyone here who has been 'through the system' and lived to tell about it will also agree with you that it is a horrible experience for everyone involved, especially the children.  And if there appears to be 'indifference' towards children, it is from the 'system' who treats them that way.  We ALL know that their tagline of 'best interest of the children' is complete hogwash.

Bottom line, that's why this site is here.........to protect our children, to help those who need guidance in their effort to protect their children, and to come together as one to fight for our children against a system that only sees family court as a money-making machine.  Every case is as different as fingerprints and any and all advice one can get or give on this site has the potential to be useful to someone. 

If there is some other avenue other than court that would assist those in contentious cases that would ensure their children have the access to both parents they are entitled to, I and I'm sure everyone else here would be all ears.  But we all know there isn't, so we work with what we've got, as diversified as that is. 

[ocean]

Thanks Kitty..
The only reason he got custody was the abuse and they were taken out of BM home. He tried to fight in all those states and still couldn't do it. The family court system is completely broken and I have no faith in the system here in NY. They do what they want and in our case it was the judge who couldnt make a decision and would not enforce a court order that was already given.

[shaden3]

It's good to be educated as you can, especially when dealing with weighty fees to attorneys, for traveling, child support, and related expenses to living apart.

When jurisdiction is up to the discretion of a particular judge, orders across the country (and within states) are going to seem inconsistent, for sure. Sometimes in a complicated matter, a court will defer to another state's jurisdiction, sometimes it will not. Important to note, in addition, that the 6-month jurisidictional shift normally addresses custody-visitation issues, and not child support cases. Also, requesting a telephonic appearance (while not the best scenario) is certainly a possibility when the travel is impossible and/or too expensive.

Is this for a modification of child support, or is the issue more connected to seeking a parenting time order? Again, these things are complicated sometimes to the point of utter confusion, but it's good that this forum is here to gather info, heed warnings, take encouragement, and learn. Agreed, however, that giving what amounts to legal advice can be an unfortunate business for someone when every situation exists in its very own bubble.

[pgh115]

IT is both! Like i said before just looking for the most efficiant way to spend the little money i do have to fight this! AS for this next court battle will restrict me from seeing my daughter for another 5-6 months. I know i have to do it at somepoint but is it even worth it, should i let things be and just save my money for the next time she will let me see her. Id like the ex to pay for most of the traval because she moved! From the comments i see that prolly wont happen! and i know from past experiance at court its a complete wast of emotion, time, and money!

[shaden3]

You're the only one who can answer those questions. What you want and need is completely up to you. How to get those things, however, surely could use some problem solving help. First, spend some time figuring out what your best outcome would be. Then you can begin the planning phase. Listen to your own heart, follow your own instincts, make your own plan. Be careful to use other people's experiences to set your sites; they may be very different from you and their paths may not mirror yours.

[MixedBag]

pgh115:  do you still live in the state of NY?

[pgh115]

Yes i live in buffalo ny

[ocean]

What did the buffolo court say? Is it in writing their refusal to take the case or you just called?
If NY takes case, you have to serve her with the papers, do you have an address or work address for her?

[Davy]

PGH115

... and were you in a court dealing with the "Family Support Act" or whatever it is called.

  Was the court specific for those matters or part of HHS.

Just curious if paternity has been validated or what level of certainty you have.

[shaden3]

Please feel free to call 1-800-716--3468 for a free, confidential conversation about what's going on. Only for residents of NY.

[Davy]

Shad3 ... it substantially APPEARS this child has been kidnapped and may be at risk.

.... Federal statues may apply and NY may not matter.   

[Davy]

 PGH115

... and were you in a court dealing with the "Family Support Act" or whatever it is called.

  Was the court specific for those matters or part of HHS and did the court decline jurisdiction citing UCCJA or was it just a casual remark "to go to FL".  Was it an actual jusge that said it.

Just curious if paternity has been validated or what level of certainty you have.