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Moving for better opportunities

Started by msfabulous89, Feb 05, 2011, 02:20:10 AM

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msfabulous89

my ex husband and i have a 2 year old son together. we do not have any formal court order of who gets him when, we worked it out ourselves that we switch back and forth every week. we have not gotten the divorce yet. however, i have an opportunity to move into a better area, with a job and a better house.

the father has a job currently but only works 20hours a week and can barely pay the bills, in fact has to choose between paying gas or electric this month, and can only pay half at that, not to mention he lives in a dangerous area that has gangs and shootings, ect, he literally lives in the ghetto. granted, i don't have a job. but i have one waiting for me in new mexico as well as a stable home that is also waiting with family members of my boyfriend. i know that in kansas i have to send the father a written notice no less than 30 days before the move to the last known address, but i know he's moved and refuses to give me his new address so i can send it to him. i can still send it to the last known address but i know for a fact that he doesn't live there.

not to mention that i got my son on october first of 2010, and it's now february 4th of 2011 and he's seen his son for a grand total of about 30 minutes. he refuses to come see his son simply because the boyfriend is around, but the boyfriend has been helping to take care of his son for this entire time! i know if i get a temporary full custody paper that i can legally take my son to new mexico to give him a much better life.

however, from what i'm reading if i send the written letter to the last known address and he doesn't respond or appeal since he doesn't live there, does that mean i'm clear to take my son since he wont give me his new address?

any information would be GREATLY appreciated as i've searched for hours online and am not getting any clear answers.

tigger

Does the child have extended family members in the current area? 
The wonderful thing about tiggers is I'm the only one!

ocean

Are you legally separated?
If not, then legally you are married. You could move, but the father will be able to have all court in his area and he can force you to stay until the trial is over if he pushes for it and many places are not allowing moves when father is around.

Did you try sending an email telling him of the move and a possible parenting plan he will have? You would have to pay for travel costs since you are moving. (airfare or meeting place closer to him).  How far driving are you moving?

I would start with an email and see what his reaction is. If he does not fight it, then you move and you then can file for divorce. If this goes to court, you will have to prove why it is better for the child to move. Your boyfriend and his family will go against you right now... Prove you have a job ready (get confirmation letter from new job stating start date...), make a calendar of the past year of when father has shown up for visits.

I will say that the father should not have ANY interacting with boyfriend regarding child. If they do not get along, exchanges should be done at school/daycare or meet at a neutral parking lot without boyfriend. Sounds like something major happened between them if he was getting child every other week and then stopped. Part of being a custodial parent is helping child have a relationship with father.

Here is a sample email maybe you can use:
Ex,
I wanted to let you know that I plan on moving to XX town in XX(month). I know that past xx months have been rough between us but I want XX to have you in his life. I am willing to have you pick up xx at school or meet at xx for exchanges to limit the contact/communication. After the move, he can still come: (list school vacations, long weekends, most of summer,) and anytime you want to come to XX. I will pay for airfare or meet you in XX(town) for your time. Please let me know by email what you think and send me the dates you would like to have him before the move.
You

Then you will see where his head is. He may go nutty for a few days..so just let phone calls go to voicemail. Only respond to emails with answers and very business like.

msfabulous89

Quote from: tigger on Feb 05, 2011, 07:44:34 AM
Does the child have extended family members in the current area? 


he does, but simply to the extent of his father and grandfather on her side. i have some family here too, but they are not very supportive of me.

msfabulous89

ocean:

the reason my son was taken from the father was because the father denied me any sort of visitation for 3 weeks as a 'lesson' because my car broke down on the way to pick up my son and i was going to be about 2 hours late. when i finally got him back, i could count his ribs while he sat and played. he's had scabies, which SRS has documentation of, head lice 3 times, staph infection which the doctors have records of. open, infected, puss filled scabs on his head when i'd get him, i'd send him back to his dads a week later after they had gone away, and when i'd get him back, they'd be back, and i have pictures of these. when i confronted the father of his eating habits, his response was 'i do too feed my son, i give him a bowl of crackers or something every day!' and he'd fill him up on juice, and i have that documented as well as it was through email. the father has not only taken off with my son out of state before without my permission, there by kidnapping him, but also flat out abandoned him about a month after he was born for a few weeks so he could go to another state and sleep with some other women, and i have documentation of all of that as well.

the father doesn't want to be around the boyfriend not because they don't get along, in fact, they get along very well face to face, but because he feels threatened because my boyfriend does more to take care of his son then he does, and he thinks he's going to loose his son because of that, yet he does nothing to change the way he takes care of his son. he constantly bash's me and my boyfriend TO my son, therefore putting the thoughts in his head that mommy and soon to be step dad are no good, ect.

and i'm not sure i'm fully understanding why moving in with my boyfriends family is going to hurt me. if i stay in kansas with my son, i'm going to be staying in a house that is literally falling apart. if he goes to his fathers, he'll be in the ghetto where crime rates, gang violence, and the danger of walking out of the house to get shot are so significantly high that it's insane to ever raise a child there. or, i can go to new mexico where my son will have a huge house to run around that is in great condition, he'll have all the utilities paid for him and more than enough food for him to eat when ever he's hungry!

ocean

Family court is another world...

Court wants to know why you should take away child to another state when father lives there. To say you are moving in with your "boyfriend" and his family will not cut it. Just stating facts.

You brought up a lot of health/safety issues for father. How about he only takes him for a weekend instead of the whole week or for a full day and send him with a few snacks. If you move, you will be forced to send him for most of the summer, and long vacations. You need to prove neglect. The courts hear accusations all the time. You need solid proof. Dr. notes stating child has XYZ, Child protective services called on dad ever? If a dr or teacher thinks there is neglect they most call CPS. So if the dr did not, the courts may take that it was not neglect.

Since you are still legally married, the father did not kidnap child. You had no legal rights above the father as far as the court is concerned. The affairs he had wont really do anything either since that is what most of divorce court hears all day long. It is a grounds to divorce in some places but no real affect on the parenting plan that will be put into place.

When this site is up totally and running, read some of the past stories...courts do not care that the father feeds him juice and no vegetables. They call it a parenting difference and ignore.

There have been a few cases by me, where the judges have been ruling no to the move stating the father's visitation rights outweigh the  mother's move. 

msfabulous89

he doesn't get ANY food other than crackers! he's only 2 as i previously stated, so there are no teachers, but family members have called on the father because of the neglect.

and i wouldn't be saying that i'm just moving in the family, there are plenty of facts as to why it's safer and the lawyer we were previously speaking to said because of the astounding amount of neglect that is on file for him and the proof we have.

and because we are still married, if he can legally move out of state with him, so could i without a hitch. the problem though is that it IS kidnapping in kansas unless you have written permission from the other parent to leave the state with the child, which he did not have from me. so if he can move out of state with him, i could to, and this wouldn't be an issue.

because of the health concerns, the house is not LIVABLE for a child even for 1 day, as 1 day is all it takes to get staph or scabies or lice AGAIN! especially when the staph he's gotten has come from his house because he had it twice on his hands and continued to pick him up when he shouldn't have. and the fact that he had the affairs isn't what i'm getting at. i'm getting at the fact that he took off with my son once for reasons that were not beneficial even in the slightest for the child, and abandoned him for the same reasons. and again, as i stated before, we have plenty of solid proof from dr. notes and CPS and SRS, all called on the dad from his own family members!

and it's not that the father doesn't feed him veggies and he gets a lot of juice, its that ALL he gets is juice and crackers. no protein, no veggies, no nutrients needed for a growing toddler.

ocean

You can move but father can have you bring child back to home state and stay there until trial. This process take in some places a year or more in and out of court for a decision UNLESS the two of you agree on something.

Bottom line is you need to get his permission to go, so start that communication and see where it leads. Offer to meet at public places a few times. He can spend two hours at a public library with him or stroll around a mall. If father allows move, then you will have to prove neglect because a judge will want to give father some time and since you will be further away, it will be for longer periods...

If you go to court, you can request both of your take a parenting class, cpr class to help with his parenting skills.

Others will chime in soon but like I said, family court is nothing you ever scene and rarely do you see common sense applied there.

Davy

For sake of clarity, the father left the state with the child and RETURNED.  Ms. plans to leave the state with the child with NO INTENT of returning and some statues may reach the boy friend for Custodial Interference. 

Moreover the New Mexico blue sky being painted is no guarantee in the short or long term.  Many of these 'moves' go to hell in a hand basket so courts can or should be reluntant and caucious.

In many many ways it is best for the child to be near both parents. 

Why don't you find employment in Kansas and make life work.

msfabulous89

the 'new mexico blue sky' thats been referred to, is by no means a hand out, but it's a start. i have a job waiting for me. it's not perfect, but it's a paying job, with a stable home. and unless the owner who has lived in the same house for the last 20 years suddenly stops paying for it, there is a guarantee it's there. yes i understand that many of these types of moves don't work out as planned. most of the time statistically speaking, the person moves with no job waiting, no permanent home, and no moral or emotional support thats waiting for us.

in most cases yes, it's best for the child to be near both parents, but we have so much put up against the father that the lawyer we previously spoke with said we had plenty of evidence of neglect from the lack of medical care which was astounding, to the lack of nutrients. the child lost 3lbs in a 3 week period, and yes, we have doctors records to prove that. a growing child doesn't loose 3lbs in 3 weeks from eating. he looses it from not being fed.

and i've been trying to find work for 6 months now in kansas, and i'd LOVE to just make it work, but it's not happening. i don't have the experience necessary that most jobs want, i.e. a year or more experience in XX field. i'm 21 years old, and yes, i've obviously made mistakes. looking back at my mistakes, they were not in any way shape or form detrimental to my son, but has put me in a tough spot. i have an opportunity to make a better life for my son and for me, and to save him from a neglectful father and if a court system is going to rule that a child who lost 3lbs in 3 weeks from a neglectful father who just flat out wasn't feeding him, then our court systems are completely f*****!

bloom6372

If you don't think he'll agree, take it through the Courts. Personally, any agreement you all can come to (if you can come to one) should be signed, notarized, and through the Courts anyway. But, if you need to take it to Court, ask for home evaluations. You may have to pay for it, though, so be prepared for that. You can ask for supervised visitation for your son, but you'll need to PROVE abuse/neglect.

Is the job you're referring to a potential job, or is it a definite thing? Also, while the house is stable, the fact is that it isn't a "guarantee" because in the Court's eyes, there's no guarantee of the relationship lasting, which could lead to uprooting your son again. So, they may not even consider that aspect of the move. The job, they would probably consider, since it could lead to a better life for your son.

gemini3

Quote from: msfabulous89 on Feb 05, 2011, 11:35:15 AM
the problem though is that it IS kidnapping in kansas unless you have written permission from the other parent to leave the state with the child, which he did not have from me.

So, not getting into the who did what to who and who is a better parent issue, your question is do you have to give the father 30-days written notice of your intent to move.  The answer is yes, you do.  If you do not, and the father objects to the move, then you could be found guilty of kidnapping and he could get custody and you could end up with supervised visitation.  So, while it may seem "easier" to skirt the law and just take off with the child, you may find yourself and the child in a worse situation than you have now.

So your best bet is to do it the right way the first time.  Establish a parenting plan, and get his agreement (or the courts) agreement on the move.


msfabulous89

thank you gemini, that was all i wanted.

bloom, the job is a definite, i already have a note from the manager stating that the job is mine to present if it has to go to court. i keep asking the father for his address, as he refuses to give it to me, so according to state law from what i've researched, i have to send the letter to the last known address, if i get no response in 30 days, i'm clear to move, correct? i've even recorded proof that he refuses to give me his address.

i would LOVE to come to an agreement with the father, but the truth is, he wont. he's 23 with the maturity of a 12 year old. no, i'm not trying to bash him, i'm being honest. i've got records and records of neglect and emotional abuse as well as the DR. records and the SRS/CPS records of EVERYTHING. i'm not scared of taking him to court by any means, i'm just wanting to get out to make a better life for my son.

i want the father to be around. i grew up without my father and it was horrible, but i don't want him to go through what he's going through now for the rest of his life. if his father could show me he can be a man and take care of his responsibility, i would have NO issue sending my son back to see him every summer and for holidays and what not.

bloom6372

I'd also, just to be safe, put something in the LEGAL section of the classifieds, and keep a copy to show that you tried to reach him in any way you can. Some states require this. I'd call the Court clerk in your area and see what they say about trying to serve someone.

msfabulous89

legal section of the classifieds? as in the newspaper?

ocean

Yes, when you can prove you tried all other ways, they judge will have you put it into the newspaper so he will have service.
BUT
IF you have his cell phone, email , and can text him.... send to the last known address, and hand deliver on next exchange or have someone deliver at his work....

If you have contact with him, just tell him over the phone and start the process. Text/email him that
Ex, I would like to discuss XX and my moving to xx town in XX month. Please send me an address so you can review the papers. (parents address, sister? brother? at least you know they will open it and give it to him....).

msfabulous89

NONE of his family will speak to me and he will not have ANY contact with me what so ever. i've tried regular email, facebook, i don't know his number so i can't text him, i've tried everything and none of his family will speak to me to give me their address either so that i can send it there. i can send it to sonic where he works, but that would risk getting him fired and i don't want that to happen.

if i have to put in the newspaper i will, however, i know he doesn't read the newspaper, so it would be a waste of time/space and money for the space in the newspaper. i'm contacting the court house tomorrow, i was unable to get through to someone today for some reason.

Kitty C.

Why would he get fired for receiving mail at work?  It's not like they can open it and see what's inside..........
Handle every stressful situation like a dog........if you can't play with it or eat it, pee on it and walk away.......

bloom6372

Have you tried looking the addresses up online, for him or his family?

msfabulous89

the company policy for sonic is that personal mail does NOT go there, or it's automatic termination.

and i have tried looking address's up online and nothing is listed that i could find.

MixedBag

You're not divorced yet?  Am I picking that up from the first post you made?

File for a divorce and include a proposed parenting plan.

HERE (AL), the clerk said to serve him in two different ways at his last known address.

So we did that.

THEN if that didn't work, we had to ask the judge for permission to publish in the paper.

And I found out what that had to look like by researching via searches on-line.

Fortunately, he was served via the sheriff at his job.

And then the proceedings went forward.

Things are gonna be slightly different in each state.

You're not divorced yet -- so this 30 day thing might actually not apply, but will down the road. 

I'd say you have plenty of time to clean up your situation and THEN move if the courts allow it.

ocean

Yup,
You know where he works, so have him served there (or given a letter there). Here there are service companies that will do it for about $50. In NY you are allowed to have someone 18 and over to do it to as long as they sign and notarize an affidavit stating they handed the papers to him. Some states have the sheriff to it for you instead.

msfabulous89

unfortunetely, no i don't have time.


and i'd love to serve him at work, but per his work's policies, it's automatic termination, and i'm not looking to screw him over by any means...

i just want a better life for me and my son. and i've ALREADY stated once that he'll get fired if i do that. i've already called and spoken to his boss about it. i was told to NOT have anything served to him there or he'll loose his job.

ocean

You should not be calling his job for any reason. He can get you on harassment for that. The job does not want drama to unfold there and trying to protect him.

No one has ever gotten fired at work for being handed an envelope. The server usually does it in the parking lot going in or out of work. You can even ask that the server following him from work and serve him at home or wherever he stops next. They just hand them the papers in a plain envelope. No one knows what they are, sometimes not even the person. It is required by the courts. A job may look and see if it is criminal summons and may do something but for divorce cases it is civil court.

You can have a friend following him home or pay a private investigator to get you his address. They probably can get the info online fast without even following him.

The judge will ask what address you used, if you know where he is, do you know where he works.... before he allows the newspaper ad. That is used as a last resort.

msfabulous89

so since i had the papers ready to go, i took them to someone to get the legalized things done, and gave them to someone i know personally, had him served at work tonight since thats the only place i know where he is.. and guess what.. he lost his job. thank you guys so much for listening to me...i think i need another forum since i've heard mostly nothing but 'your wrong' on here... and when i told you guys something of how it would be... you told me i was wrong, i followed the advice.. and now he's fired... which is going to look horrible on me! thanks a f***ing lot!

tigger

The language is completely uncalled for. 

Who told you he was fired?  Him?  His boss can't just fire him because he got served.  That's like firing someone for being called into jury duty.  This is a civil matter, not criminal.  Something here isn't adding up. 
The wonderful thing about tiggers is I'm the only one!

ocean

Something else is up.
Could he:
Be trying to get out of a child support order and telling you that you got him fired? (and if he has no job he thinks the judge will order 0 support?)
He has too many people visiting him and they warned him about it?
Maybe has other court issues happening (criminal) that the company is aware of?

If the server just handed him an envelope he can not get fired. If he went nutty after and refused to work, maybe he got fired for that.

If you do not believe us, call sonic headquarters and ask but they will tell you they do not have a policy of firing someone just because they were served a paper for civil court to show up.

Did you serve him divorce papers or letter on the move?

Either way, you will not look bad in court for having him served at work. If you had someone you know do it, there is a form they fill out and sign that they handed it to him. Did this person say anything to him or make a scene? Did he know this person? What did they see after they handed him the paper?

Even if he has not seen child in a while, it would be expected that he may have gotten a little upset reading your papers hearing that his child is being taken away to another state. Now it will be up to him what happens next.

txmom702

Y'all - it's SONIC...  Fast food places, and places like it, in a lot of places, are notorious for being hard-a$$e$ when it comes to things like that...    They don't need a reason

I love how anonymous people on a message board insist they know so much more than the actual people involved in the actual situation.  It's right up there with giving medical opinions and parenting opinions for kids they don't even know....  (sorry for the rant - been seeing too much judgment and too many persona opinions on not just this board but other ones as well)

tigger

I live in an "at will" state.  Even here there are rules that unless the person is in their probationary period, they have to have documented reasons for termination.  Perhaps Kansas has different standards.  And having never worked at a fast food joint, I based my response (as I'm sure others did) on our experiences.  At Duke, there is no way he could have been fired for being served.  He would have had to have violated one of the rules and then it would have had to go through the disciplinary track and termination would not have been the first step.
The wonderful thing about tiggers is I'm the only one!

Everyside

I have to jump in here and say that the OP was given several different suggestions as to how to serve him without it happening at work (have a friend following him home or pay a private investigator to get you his address. They probably can get the info online fast without even following him, in the parking lot going in or out of work, ask that the server following him from work and serve him at home or wherever he stops next.) so I don't see where blaming this boad and using foul language to do so makes any sense.

On Feb 10, 2011, 05:22:49 am (according to the time stamp on my view of the board) you were not going to serve him at work because you didn't want him to get fired.  By Feb 10, 2011, 10:10:13 pm (again, my time stamp view) you had had him served, he was fired, you found out about the firing and posted here.

If you found out that he lost his job so quickly, you must have a pretty good way of keeping tabs on him so I find it hard to believe you couldn't serve him any other way. 

Coming back here after making the choice to serve him at his work and complaining that the posters here were at fault does not make sense.

Actually, this whole thing just doesn't make sense to me.

Kitty C.

Ditto, everyside............

For saying you have no idea where he lives and can't get in touch with him, you sure know an awful a lot about what he's doing and when............doesn't add up.
Handle every stressful situation like a dog........if you can't play with it or eat it, pee on it and walk away.......

gemini3

Quote from: msfabulous89 on Feb 10, 2011, 08:10:13 PM
i think i need another forum since i've heard mostly nothing but 'your wrong' on here... and when i told you guys something of how it would be... you told me i was wrong, i followed the advice.. and now he's fired... which is going to look horrible on me! thanks a f***ing lot!

I think you need another forum too.