S.P.A.R.C.

Separated Parenting Access & Resource Center
crazy gamesriddles and jokesfunny picturesdeath psychic!mad triviafunny & odd!pregnancy testshape testwin custodyrecipes

Author Topic: Is this a fair statement re: child support  (Read 7685 times)

katz

  • Guest
Is this a fair statement re: child support
« on: May 21, 2004, 11:37:37 AM »
Hi, I am new to this site and would like some perspective on child support issues. My husband has (and has had since divorce 6 years ago) primary custody of his daughter, while both mom and dad have joint legal.

Originally my husband was paying support to his ex, yet his ex was not taking their daughter for any visitation. My husband got the child support dropped, and there is none ordered for the mom or dad to pay at this time. (well court ordered to pay daycare/medical splits but mom never does)

On to my question though: Is if a fair statement that cs is ordered so that the children continue living in a 2 income home (as they were before the divorce)? And from that do you draw the conclusion that if a step parent comes along, the child is now in a 2 income home again, thus no need for NCP cs?




ConcernedCP

  • Guest
RE: Is this a fair statement re: child support
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2004, 11:46:44 AM »
No, cs is ordered for the care of the child(ren).  It is the parents' obligation and responsibility to provide this care, not a stepparent.  

NeverGiveUp

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 96
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Is this a fair statement re: child support
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2004, 11:43:58 AM »
CS should not be mandated in any way shape or form.  It states that "we", as parents, are unwilling to provide for our children without giving us the oportunity to do so.  I, for one, am personaly insulted by the very notion.  I detest the concept at face value and I'm sicked by those, even some one this forum, that declare it is justified by our obligation to our children.  I see no one ever looking into my neighbors home to determine what % of his income is being spent on his children, or where it's being spent.  Nor is there any mandate insisting that CS be accounted for by the CP.  For all we know they spend it on themselves.  

So in short, to answer your question.  No, it's not fair.  So write your elected officials and tell them if they don't get it together you'll vote for someone that will.

rini

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 116
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Is this a fair statement re: child support
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2004, 12:22:23 PM »
Hi

I have to disagree with you on that one.

while i do agree that the whole entire system needs overhauled Child Support is mandated because it became necessary to enforce it.

there are way too many people that did take advantage of the system before the archaically styled one that is in place today became law.

You are what one would assume to be a responsible parent that is willing to take care of the child(ren) that belong to you.  There are far too many that are not willing to and had not been willing to when the system that we have in place today was written into law.

Unarguably the system is extremely flawed but it is a necessary evil that has helped many children see support from a parent that might not have contributed any thing.

God Bless you for being a caring enough parent that you know what is right and wrong.

(to the original poster...........  You as a step parent are not financially responsible for the child and in most states your income will not be taken into account when establishing a court order for your spouse to recieve child support that he is entitled to... If any thing he needs to apply for child support and put the money away for a college fund for kid.  Not collecting it is not a smart move if the child decides to move with the other parent when they are a teen and can make that decision i can guarantee you that they will seek support..

then it will be too late to have the support you should have gotten credited or offset!!!))))))))

God bless
rini

Bolivar OH

  • Guest
Dear rini
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2004, 03:31:00 PM »
Dear rini,

You obviously receive and do NOT pay CS.  Nothing I could say would change your mind.  You need to be on the paying end of CS.


rini

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 116
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Dear rini
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2004, 12:15:54 PM »
hello

obviously you are mistaken  we pay 60 % of our net for child support and you need to do some research into how the child support guidelines came to be in place.  

non custodial parents were not supporting their children voluntarily.

I totally disagree with the methods used and the calculation but if there was no system at all in place far less children would be recieving any support at all.

rini

Peanutsdad

  • Guest
RE: Dear Boliver
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2004, 03:58:59 PM »
I have BEEN on the paying end of cs. I paid it on time and in full. As a result of family court,, I lost my cars, and now drive a 20 yr old car.


Now,, the shoes on the other foot,, and my ex,, who thought cs was such a great idea when I was the one paying,, now thinks its horribly unfair. As a result, she hasnt paid a dime,, ever.


As a child,, I watched friends whos parents divorced. Without fail, EVERY single one of them had a severely reduced lifestyle or ended up on public assistance. Why? Because no mechanism was in place then to ensure parents took care of their kids. So,, the TAXPAYERS ended up supporting them. As a TAXPAYER, I dont WANT to support YOUR kids. I have enough to do supporting my own.

tjraid18

  • Guest
RE: WOW!!! What a question
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2004, 05:06:48 PM »
  There should be tons of opinions on this one. My opinion. First thing you should know when your talking about child support is that way back when, mothers whose husbands had left them had literally no recourse in getting those husbands to be financially responsible with the expenses of the child(ren). This, coupled with a social stigma against being on welfare and the womens rights movement of the time ---- led to the department of justice ---- Child support becoming more powerfull than the I.R.S. There are no if's and's or but's. You are a male. You meet a female. you have a child(ren). You part ways. It's over!!!!
   I personally paid $300.00 a month more than I was supposed to for nearly three years. I called child support all the time and tried to get it straightened out. They completely ignored me. Once, they told me I could live in my car ---- and laughed about it. when I did get a lawyer to get it modified (which was nothing short of a miracle) THEN they listened. My child support is still screwed up with the arrears that I should'nt even owe in the first place. It effects my tax returns and my ability to be a father to my kids. I've seen a lot worse than that though. I know a guy whose ex wife was into drugs really bad and he ended up getting custody of his daughters. But continued to pay his ex wife $800.00 or $900.00 a month because she wouldnt sign a piece of paper for two years. Child support did nothing to stop it. I've heard horror stories that are just unreal. I've seen guys entire lives completely, and carelessly ruined over the criminal unfairness of child support. On one of SOC's posts, he told someone that child support recieves 15 cents for every dollar from the federal government that they collect. Our children ARE just numbers. It's sick.
   The scales were tipped one way to an extreme ---- now they are tipped the other. And guess who's still suffering for it? Our children. My ex lives in a very nice new, three bedroom townhouse with a garage and a hot tub in the back yard. She is on HUD, food stamps, and other state assistance. The state frequently pays her water, phone, electric, and or garbage bill. She drove a brand new Honda civic off the lot in 1998. She pays $300.00 per month plus full coverage insurance. She has brand new furniture she is also paying on. Meanwhile my kids have little more than a roof over their head. They are doing awfull in school. Have few friends. ETC, etc. It's obvious where the child support is going.
   Believe me, child support does not have the childrens best interest in mind. They serve their interest first. Then the single custodial mothers. Thats as far as it goes. So if the ex were to get remarried ---- the money that would come into the relationship would not change things. And no--- child support is not fair.

Peanutsdad

  • Guest
RE: WOW!!! What a question
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2004, 06:39:17 PM »
I've heard horror stories on both sides of the isue and personally know people that have those stories on both sides of the issue. The system is flawed, yet it is the only one we have currently. It HAS resulted in more kids being taken care of than were being prior. Personally, I think it has resulted in more fathers being involved with their kids than in previous decades.


Where I have a problem is this: Two parents split up. For whatever reason, the child/ren end up primarily with one parent in most cases. the other parent is ordered to pay support for the same child/ren.

Fast forward now: the cp doesnt make ends meet, for whatever reason. The ncp deosnt support, for whatever reason. Now, for whatever reason, those same kids,, are on welfare. Im now stuck supporting these kids with my tax dollars. They are not my kids,, why am I forced now to support them?? What? because their parents cant get their head out of their ass?

To me,, thats a greater wrong than child support. Those two parents elected to have the kids,( yes you did, when you had sex, you knew it could happen),, but,, because of their stupidity,, I have to pay?? THAT is a large part of why child support enforcement got started.


So,, the parents that refuse to support,, thus FORCING THEIR responsibility off on me, the taxpayer,, THOSE are the deadbeats.


I dont care for the cs laws anymore than anyone. BUT, it happens to be the law of the land. Comply. You dont like it? Go change it. But dont shrug your responsibilities off on the taxpayers,, we didnt ask for it.


Disclaimer: To all the parents who are responsible, this post is not directed at you, thus angry retorts are not indicated. Thank you, have a great day. ;)

tjraid18

  • Guest
RE: WOW!!! What a question
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2004, 04:01:54 PM »
    Tell me about it. My ex is making a career out of the welfare sysem. She has worked once in her 34 years and now has 4 children. She worked at a senior care facility, that her aunt was the boss of, for about two years. It was when Clinton passed the welfare to work program.
    I have paid over $45,000.00 in child support in 4 1/2 years and I make about $13.00 an hour.
    I feel like I double pay. Once in direct child support. And once again in taxes. My ex recieves child support based on my total gross. So they take approximately 1/2 of that then deduct taxes, ins. and S.S. From what I have remaining. She gets her half tax free AND gets a large chunk at the end of the year for the child tax credit. While I claim "0" and have the federal withhold $20.00 extra each 2 week pay period and still end up owing at the end of the year.
    The money does not go to the kids. I understand that some is for rent, food, clothing, and bills. But she has a $300.00 car payment, fullcoverage ins. payment, furniture payment, and who knows what else.
   Thats where at least 85% of my child support goes. Does she have to have a brand new car while shes on welfare? Does she have to live in a brand new house with a hot tub while on welfare? My kids have next to nothing -- and the state is hitting me so hard I am unable to help much at all financially. I'm not against paying child support. As long as it's reasonable. I'm also not against my ex having nice things -- as long as my kids are getting what they deserve and I am able to live, and be a father to them.
   You say youv'e seen it go both ways being unfair? That surprises me. How much were you paying when your ex had custody? How much is she paying now that you do? The only moms that I know of that don't get child support are cases where the father is incarcerated or become drifters. And I do know some girls who are in that situation. I know of about 3 of them. I know of thousands and thousands of men who are taking it right in the backside and can not even make rent. Let alone buy food or drive or ever do anything fun. If you are a woman and call child support or go to the office and fill out the paperwork ---- you can get away with murder. If you are a man ---- You are nothing more than a source of income for the state ( In the name of the childrens best interest). I respectfully disagree that current child support guidelines keep more fathers in their childrens lives.

Peanutsdad

  • Guest
tjraid
« Reply #10 on: Jun 01, 2004, 11:27:49 AM »
The reason so many men are taking it in the backside now,, is very simple: Our fathers generation as a whole skipped out on the supporting kids after divorce.

Do you really think such harsh cs laws and enforcement laws just came to be in a vacuum?? We are paying for our fathers sins,, plain and simple. My own biofather was a deadbeat. He walked away without a backward look. Never paid a dime in cs, never helped out one iota. I was more fortunate than some, my stepdad after marrying my mother, stepped up to the plate and became the dad that my brother and I deserved. To this day, my mother has never said a harsh word about my biodad,, not once, not ever. Not even when I questioned several things after I was grown. I have a lot of respect for my mother for that. She worked as a waitress working two jobs to stay off welfare until she could finish college.



Personally, I would feel better about it if there WAS an accountability of cs spent, but there isnt. As far as seeing the issue being unfair,, yes I've seen it both ways. I personally know of moms that are divorced, are the ncp, and pay guideline support on 8-10 bux an hour wages to cp dads who make 60-90k. Two of these moms I'm thinking of also share an apartment simply because they cannot afford to live. I know dad's in the same situation. As far as what I paid,, it was guideline, my ex is ordered to pay guideline. The difference is,, I paid,, she quit her job. She has no one depending on her, I am the sole support of my two older children. My ex faces contempt charges that are upcoming.


As far as fathers being involved in their kids lives after divorce,, well my friend, you and I will have to agree to disagree. I still maintain that more fathers are involved with their children today than were 20-30 years ago post divorce. In the past, ( prior to cs enforcement), many fathers didnt support, and were as a rule either excluded from their childrens lives or walked away.


Family court laws and cs laws reflect the past events in society. The severity of them is directly due to past events. Does it make the laws fair today? Or balanced? Nope,, not a bit,, BUT....until moderate reason is applied to family court, it isnt going to change. Until parents step up and take the responsibilities of their kids and stop abusing the system, nothing changes.

I do not disagree at all about the bias. It's there and its real. There was a point in time with divorce, it was the norm tho. Fathers worked outside the home, mothers as a rule did not. They had no job skills. Therefor, fathers were made responsible financially. Laws lag behind sociatal norms. There's no way around that. What needs to happen, ( and is actually happening slowly), is a change to reflect the sociatal norms that exist now: both parents tend to work outside the home, both parents need to be equally in a childs life,, for most cases. I think we all can agree there ARE cases when a child should be protected from one parent or the other.

Bolivar OH

  • Guest
RE: Dear Peanutsdad
« Reply #11 on: Jun 01, 2004, 11:59:04 AM »
BACKGROUND:
   1. I paid over $30,000 in child support in 2003.
   2. I am constantly denied visitation.
   3. I have spent over $85,000 in legal fees over the past few years.
   4. The judge/magistrate just reprimands NC.

I am trying to spend more time with my son.  The courts feel DAD is nothing but a wallet and provides no nurturing to ones child.

My child has been taken from me and I pay for this process.  This to me is immoral.

I am not trying in any way to wane or wax philosophically the nature of Child Support.  I am merely giving realistic facts which I have encountered with the government regulations concerning my affairs with my son.

Peanutsdad

  • Guest
RE: Dear Peanutsdad
« Reply #12 on: Jun 01, 2004, 03:19:38 PM »
Nor am I. I merely point out WHY you are getting screwed now.

It has nothing to do with philosophy, it has to do with history. The reality you face is a direct result of history. But of course, lets not bother learning from the past. Right?

As is happening with cs today,, so will happen with visitation denial tomorrow. We already are seeing custodial parents losing custody over visitation denial. Slowly but surely,, the weight of cases for visitation denial mount pressure on the legal system.

You want to see change? Keep filing contempts. It may not happen for you, it may not happen for me, but someone will see it happen. We have seen it here on these boards.

As for your assertation of paying 30k in 2003 in cs,, what % of your income was that? Was that a base rate of cs? Or was there arrearages?

How many times have you filed a motion for contempt on the denied visits?

After spending 85k in legal fees, have you learned how to file a motion for contempt?

Bolivar OH

  • Guest
RE: Dear Peanutsdad
« Reply #13 on: Jun 02, 2004, 11:15:32 AM »
>>As for your assertation of paying 30k in 2003 in cs,, what % of your income was that?
>>Was that a base rate of cs? Or was there arrearages?
     1. That’s based on my income for 2003.
     2. I also paid $24k in spousal support in 2003.
     3. Yes, I make over 6 figure income.

>>How many times have you filed a motion for contempt on the denied visits?
     1. zero – How much more do you think I should spend on this?
                    (The 85k includes divorce cost.)

I am not interested in a frivolous back and forth banter .

I am searching/looking/researching for empirical information on CS and visitation issues.

As for my mistakes.  My biggest mistake was to turn my divorce over to another person (ATTORNEY(s)) to take care of my interests.  If I learned one thing it is to MANAGE ONE’S OWN DIVORICE.  I am now living with the repercussion of my misjudgment.

My problem at the present moment is assimilating all of the information and dealing with my internal emotions about the situation.

If anyone has easy to understand information on CS and Visitation Issues, please let me know.

Thanks

NeverGiveUp

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 96
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Is this a fair statement re: child support
« Reply #14 on: Jun 02, 2004, 11:18:13 AM »
I've read through these posts and this is what I've seen.

Many people are pointing at the past and blaming “dead beat dads” for the injustice that is CS today.  I hardly think that’s fair.  Let’s not forget that in the past fathers had it even worse than they do now (hard as it may be to believe).  Basically they were ripped from their children’s lives and awarded no parental rights at all.  Many objected through the only means they had available (they stop paying).  That prompted the need for support enforcement, which actually didn’t work either.  Fathers became so frustrated with the system that they disappeared, or willingly faced prosecution.  Only then did the courts pull their heads out of their a**’s and recognize that keeping fathers involved was the best way to ensure support was continued.  On that note I argue, stop telling us that 4 days a month is sufficient to being a parent and kids will get the support they need.

Next, we all seem to be missing a fundamental point here.  No one is looking at the intact family to decide how things are going in their home, unless it’s so bad that neglect is present.  Nor would we dare. It’s a double standard and a clear violation of our civil rights. You don’t even have to disagree with CS to see it’s true.

Lastly, you can’t support something like this half way.  You’re either in favor of it or opposed to it.  Let me ask, what would we do to an intact family that couldn’t provide for the family?  Would we take the children and place them in foster care until their parent(s) could provide them with food and shelter? Would anyone complain about it when it happened?  I doubt it.  It is after all in the best interest of the child(ren).  So let’s extrapolate this.  What if we were to say that the parent with most custodial time was responsible for that share of the support, instead of the other way around?  If a parent was unable to provide for themselves and their children, we simply place the children in the care of the other parent for more time, thereby putting emphasis on the noble idea of obtaining adequate employment to support yourself and your children.  Boy I can hear the screaming now . . . What kind of an asinine notion is that.  Then divorced parents would be like everyone else.

By the way, save any arguments regarding stay at home parenting.  It isn’t in place for 80% of the intact families so there’s no base for supporting it in divorced families.  Also, let’s keep dead beet dads out of this as well.  They are the NOT the norm, give a father the right to have his children and watch how he’ll work twice as hard to support them. Just like mom!

NeverGiveUp

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 96
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Don't stroke me . .
« Reply #15 on: Jun 02, 2004, 11:24:21 AM »
I am not the exception.  In the past few years I've gotten to know many fathers being burned by our system.  They are great dads, ALL of them, and I've yet to meet a one that wouldn't gladly take his children 100% of the time and ask for nothing from their X's.  That's right, we'd exchange money for our children, happily.

How many CP's do you know that are willing to do that?

Kitty C.

  • Moderator
  • SuperHero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2612
  • Karma: 938
    • View Profile
RE: Dear Peanutsdad
« Reply #16 on: Jun 02, 2004, 11:32:19 AM »
'If anyone has easy to understand information on CS and Visitation Issues, please let me know.'

Good luck, because we're ALL looking for the same thing!  But the reason for all the questions is not to banter back and forth, but to be able to assist you in your quest for information.  The reason why you can't get any rock solid information is because every state is different, every court is different, and every case is different.  It's a crap shoot for anyone at any given time.  

And specific issues regarding your case is the ONLY way to even possibly give advice on what anyone might 'think' would be reasonable.  What works for one may or may not work for another, depending on the jurisdiction, judge, case and state laws.  

The reason why you will never get a black-and-white answer is because these are not B&W issues.  We're talking humans here and when you throw the human aspect into the mix, it's ALL grey, all open to interpretation.  Even if your state CS gudelines demand 25%, if the judge in your case wants to deviate from that and order 28%, that is his perogative.

But you're right on about managing one's own divorce!
Handle every stressful situation like a dog........if you can't play with it or eat it, pee on it and walk away.......

NeverGiveUp

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 96
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Dear Peanutsdad
« Reply #17 on: Jun 03, 2004, 04:29:57 AM »
I agree.  It's different in every state, in every county, in every court.  Locate a fathers rights group in your area and attend the meetings.  They'll know the court in your area and maybe even the judge.  They also have no motivation to leed you on or feed you falls info.

impressivedjq

  • Guest
RE: Is this a fair statement re: child support
« Reply #18 on: Jun 03, 2004, 08:49:26 AM »
I will say this" NOTHING IS LEGAL UNLESS THE GOVERNMENT CAN SEE YOU!!!!"  Are we still in America????  x(

Peanutsdad

  • Guest
RE: Is this a fair statement re: child support
« Reply #19 on: Jun 03, 2004, 02:06:21 PM »
>I will say this" NOTHING IS LEGAL UNLESS THE GOVERNMENT CAN
>SEE YOU!!!!"  Are we still in America????  x(



???????? I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

Bolivar OH

  • Guest
NeverGiveUp
« Reply #20 on: Jun 04, 2004, 11:01:13 AM »
>>Locate a fathers rights group in your area and attend the meetings.

I am near CANTON, OHIO.  Can you point me in the direction to fathers rights group meeting(s)?

I have done searches on the web, but have come up with nothing in my area.

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

katz

  • Guest
Sorry!
« Reply #21 on: Jun 04, 2004, 01:03:12 PM »
I certainly did not mean to start such a heated debate, and I apologize for not comming back to this site sooner. My son has been extremely ill, but I think he is finally on the road to recovery.

I think I am trying to rationalize in my mind, why my husband feels it is ok to go on without any child support.  My sd is a very expensive child, from major dental on baby teeth (argh), to hearing aids, and councelling. She is a handfull to say the least, and has ADHD and is autistic.

There are days that I feel my husband has effectively "bought" his rights to be the custodial parent, by not forceing the cs issue. Or maybe it is a pride thing for him.

We dont necessarily NEED the money, yet my sd's savings account isnt going up near as much as I would like to see it go up. IF dh ever did get child support, it would go into that savings account to hopefully give my sd a jump start into the adult world that is not geared for her dissabilities. There are many things she will need as an adult, that are not the "norm". TTY (telephones for hearing impaired), special lights for alarms, and just a guess here, but I think she will need continued councelling, speach and language therapy etc into adult hood.

We are not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination, but we do manage to meet her needs, using both my income and my dh's. Unfortunately that means that sometimes my son's needs (no dissabilities) are pushed aside for later. An example would be he does not have a savings account at this time, yet we would like to be able to contribute to both kids start in adult hood. Another example is we couldnt afford to get him a "big boy bed" when it was time (he was climbing out of his crib), because at that precise time my sd lost her hearing aids (which are 2,500.00).

Of course it bothers me that sometimes my son's needs arent met precisely at the time he needs them, but I love my sd and know that her needs (especially hearing aids) take a priority most of the time.

Anyway again I apologize for my delay in elaborating on my statement, and for the heated debate I caused. Thank you for reading and responding.


katz

  • Guest
Sorry!
« Reply #22 on: Jun 04, 2004, 01:03:12 PM »
I certainly did not mean to start such a heated debate, and I apologize for not comming back to this site sooner. My son has been extremely ill, but I think he is finally on the road to recovery.

I think I am trying to rationalize in my mind, why my husband feels it is ok to go on without any child support.  My sd is a very expensive child, from major dental on baby teeth (argh), to hearing aids, and councelling. She is a handfull to say the least, and has ADHD and is autistic.

There are days that I feel my husband has effectively "bought" his rights to be the custodial parent, by not forceing the cs issue. Or maybe it is a pride thing for him.

We dont necessarily NEED the money, yet my sd's savings account isnt going up near as much as I would like to see it go up. IF dh ever did get child support, it would go into that savings account to hopefully give my sd a jump start into the adult world that is not geared for her dissabilities. There are many things she will need as an adult, that are not the "norm". TTY (telephones for hearing impaired), special lights for alarms, and just a guess here, but I think she will need continued councelling, speach and language therapy etc into adult hood.

We are not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination, but we do manage to meet her needs, using both my income and my dh's. Unfortunately that means that sometimes my son's needs (no dissabilities) are pushed aside for later. An example would be he does not have a savings account at this time, yet we would like to be able to contribute to both kids start in adult hood. Another example is we couldnt afford to get him a "big boy bed" when it was time (he was climbing out of his crib), because at that precise time my sd lost her hearing aids (which are 2,500.00).

Of course it bothers me that sometimes my son's needs arent met precisely at the time he needs them, but I love my sd and know that her needs (especially hearing aids) take a priority most of the time.

Anyway again I apologize for my delay in elaborating on my statement, and for the heated debate I caused. Thank you for reading and responding.


katz

  • Guest
RE: Don't stroke me . .
« Reply #23 on: Jun 04, 2004, 02:26:45 PM »
Apparently my husband is a cp who asks for nothing from ex :) . Although I KNOW if shoe were on the other foot, you can bet hubby's ex would not do it without cs.

Peanutsdad

  • Guest
RE: Sorry!
« Reply #24 on: Jun 04, 2004, 04:28:39 PM »
katz,

You certainly inspired a lively debate. Thanx !!! ;)


Most fathers with custody it seems DONT recieve cs. When my older childrens mom and I divorced, that was the case. I had custody, and asked for no cs order. We were amicable thru the process.


Peanuts mom on the other hand has been a royal toot the entire time and filed for cs WHILE WE WERE STILL LIVING TOGETHER. Man,, THAT got my goat.


The courts here have changed,, they will NOT allow a custody case to go thru without a cs order. Period.

wendl

  • Sr. Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1470
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Dear rini
« Reply #25 on: Jun 04, 2004, 07:48:22 PM »
well I am on both sides,

I am a mom who does not get cs, my ex has never helped me raise my son, he rarely sees my son etc etc. Therefore a cs in place is a good thing. My ex was ordered to pay $25 a mont and didn't he is now suppose to pay $160 a month and doesn't. He has never helped pay for daycare, he has never paid or helped with medical, (my sons meds are $60 a month which is the copay on my dhs ins).

Now on the other hand, my dh pays his cs without fail (though his ex will say he doesn't) By looking at what my stepkids wear, you would think there father doesn't pay support, my dh also pays medical for them as well.

Unforntunatleysome (men and woman) who are suppose to pay don't and therefore we need a system to enforce it. For the ones that do pay, I feel the guidelines for the amount of cs to be paid be calculated fairly.so the ncp (and new family if one) can actually survive.

wendl

  • Sr. Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1470
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Dear rini
« Reply #26 on: Jun 04, 2004, 07:48:33 PM »
well I am on both sides,

I am a mom who does not get cs, my ex has never helped me raise my son, he rarely sees my son etc etc. Therefore a cs in place is a good thing. My ex was ordered to pay $25 a mont and didn't he is now suppose to pay $160 a month and doesn't. He has never helped pay for daycare, he has never paid or helped with medical, (my sons meds are $60 a month which is the copay on my dhs ins).

Now on the other hand, my dh pays his cs without fail (though his ex will say he doesn't) By looking at what my stepkids wear, you would think there father doesn't pay support, my dh also pays medical for them as well.

Unforntunatleysome (men and woman) who are suppose to pay don't and therefore we need a system to enforce it. For the ones that do pay, I feel the guidelines for the amount of cs to be paid be calculated fairly.so the ncp (and new family if one) can actually survive.

NeverGiveUp

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 96
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Sorry!
« Reply #27 on: Jun 05, 2004, 07:25:44 AM »
You didn't start this.  It's been going on for a long time. You just brought it up again.  That's good not bad.  Things like this need to be brought up or nothing will ever change.

I understand that the children are the ones that suffer.  Children are directly affected by the choices their parents make. Parents make bad choices in intact families all of the time.  Children in intact families don’t always get everything they need.  Sometimes their parents buy speed boats or sports cars while their children suffer from learning disabilities and aren’t getting the help they need.  It’s sad, it’s also life.  I simply state that that if we, as a society, aren’t going to patrol intact families then we have no right patrolling divorced families.

I’m a NCP.  My child suffered from a learning disability.  I had to fight to get testing that was needed.  I now sit back helpless because the testing is complete, the disability has been identified, and no help is being provided. I pay ~$1,000/month. Where does it go?  Who’s looking out for my kids now?  How does anyone know what their mom is doing with that much money?  Why doesn’t anyone care?

I think it’s because the best interest of our children can never be decided by a group of people that don’t even know them.  The best interest of our children is, and should be, up to the parents.

NeverGiveUp

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 96
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Dear rini
« Reply #28 on: Jun 05, 2004, 07:50:04 AM »
My argument hasn’t changed here, nor has it been challenged.  You’re children have needs, there father isn’t providing for those needs so you have to.  You argue that society should step in and enforce that support.

There was a family that grew up in my neighborhood. The parents spent money foolishly and often overlooked the needs of their children. The kids never had good clothing and were doing poorly in school. Seldom did they have proper supervision and they got picked on by the other kids.

Will you argue that enforcement should be in place for families like that?  It would be in the best interest of the children, right? No, of course we wouldn’t argue that.  This would be opening the door to government invading ever household in America.  It would challenge our constitution, it would be dead wrong . . . Welcome to the world of the NCP . . .

My argument stands.  Our civil rights provide equality for ALL Americans.  Our civil rights are being violated and our children are being used to do it. If you’re going to invade my privacy and determine whether or not I’m supporting my children properly (because it’s in the children’s best interest). Then you should be doing the same for every other child in America.

Your ex was a poor provider, a poor role model, a lousy father.  So you divorce him because you decided you and your children will be better off.  Good for you.  You made a decision and you corrected your own problem. He was a dead beet when you were married to him, and NO ONE GOT involved.  Now he’s a dead beet after you got rid of him.  Why should we get involved now?

katz

  • Guest
RE: Sorry!
« Reply #29 on: Jun 05, 2004, 09:02:23 AM »
Sorry I dont know how to do a quote but you said "The courts here have changed,, they will NOT allow a custody case to go thru without a cs order. Period."

That was true in even my husbands case, the problem was my husband was paying child support to the mom who was not seeing, visiting, calling or anything with their daughter. My husband paid for over a year, then had to pay a lawyer to finally get the child support dropped. Of course his ex was ticked, and said you better not make me pay because I wont do it, blah blah blah . It just made no sence for my husband to pay child support, when he was solely supporting the child 100% of time anyway. I wonder what his ex did with the 3,000.00 in support my husband paid that first year? Couldnt of been for the child since ex didnt see the child for the first 3 years after the divorce anyway.

The whole thing left such a bad taste in our mouths, it would take something monumental before my husband would take his ex to court for child support.

Peanutsdad

  • Guest
RE: Sorry!
« Reply #30 on: Jun 05, 2004, 12:29:30 PM »
Sorry, I guess I should have clarified it. When I got custody of my daughter and the child support order dropped on me, the court here ordered my ex to pay,, guideline support.  THAT was not in my motion. I have since learned,, that the courts here no longer allow a case thru without cs.


So,, had your DH had to go to court here to get his cs order dropped, they would have ordered his ex to pay,, regardless.

Bolivar OH

  • Guest
RE: Sorry!
« Reply #31 on: Jun 07, 2004, 09:33:25 AM »
Thanks again NeverGiveUp, for so eloquently stating reality as it is.  You are able to put into words what I am feeling/thinking.

Hopefully society will acknowledge Dads for their nurturing support they give to children.  Not a wallet that supplies money.

purrrfectgirl

  • Guest
RE: NeverGiveUp
« Reply #32 on: Jun 07, 2004, 01:04:10 PM »
There are PACE charters in almost all mjor cities in Ohio, including Akron, Cincinnati, and Cleveland.  I'd imagine there's one in Canton.

KIASTAR

  • Guest
RE: Is this a fair statement re: child support
« Reply #33 on: Jun 25, 2004, 05:38:22 PM »
I am a CP and NCP. I never bug the dad about CS and have never had it "uped" in 7 years.Our child is 10. When he can pay, we send a thank you letter(he lives out of state) and I keep EVERY receipt and write down every amount and what it is used for. I usually send him a copy if he asked but he doesn't ask very often. There are still some of us(CP's) that do spend the CS on the child,where it should go. I will NEVER take him to court or have him put in jail for non-payment.That is just stupid and serves no purpose then to stiSLURPize his our child. I hope some of the women(and men) stop treating the other parent as "fisrt Bank of *submit name*!

Mom2004

  • Guest
RE: Is this a fair statement re: child support
« Reply #34 on: Jun 26, 2004, 05:27:46 AM »
Children are supported by their parents, not step parents. Step parents are under NO obligation to share their income with a stepchild. Heck most 2nd marriages I know, they keep their finances separated.

Mom2004

  • Guest
RE: Is this a fair statement re: child support
« Reply #35 on: Jun 26, 2004, 05:31:27 AM »
So you feel that parents should be able to financially walk away from their children? You do know that if a parent neglects their child, that is illegal. Some parents refuse to support their children, why is why CS was done the way it is. Heck I know for a fact as a CP, that if I walked away financially, I would be on charges of neglect.

Just like, we all know that murder is wrong, but people still do it which is why we have this thing called laws and punishment.

NeverGiveUp

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 96
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Is this a fair statement re: child support
« Reply #36 on: Jun 27, 2004, 04:38:28 AM »
While I agree that they are under NO obligation to share in support, I disagree with the last statment.  Who cares where they keep their money, there's still a two income family established.  Your statment implies that the step parent is keeping all of their income stashed away. I hardly doubt that's the way it happens.  CS is not just for food and clothing it's to provide a roof.  So if the roof is suddenly costing the CP less money, which it is if the step parent is paying for part of the rent/mortgage, shouldn't the NCP get a break?

KIASTAR

  • Guest
RE: Dear rini
« Reply #37 on: Jun 29, 2004, 08:12:08 AM »
Bolivar OH, What is so wrong with paying CS IF the other parent is paying their share too? My daughter is disabled(from her dad---bipolar,not blaming mind you it is genetic) and w/ out her dads help,I could not do some of the things she needs! I do apprciate his help and we write thank you notes for every check.I do,however, pay MUCH MORE toward her life. I also pay child support for my daughter that was kidnapped at age 2 and I found her at age 10, it was a parental kidnapping. SO,I am on BOTH sides of this issue. What are your thoughts?

NeverGiveUp

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 96
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Dear rini
« Reply #38 on: Jun 29, 2004, 12:01:34 PM »
Nothings wrong with parents taking care of their children.  Who's saying there is?


KIASTAR

  • Guest
RE: WOW!!! What a question
« Reply #39 on: Jun 29, 2004, 04:27:53 PM »
That is pretty biased. I,as a single mom, ALWAYS spend the money(if any) on our daughter! I keep receipts and write down what it is spent on. In my case, my EX CAN afford to pay the 234/month but would rather pay off his bosses and use other ppl's SS#'s. I even offered to lower it(I have never had it raised or done a cost of living even when the CS ppl tried to get me to) and try to take some off the arrers.

 He got pissed and indignant and told me to f**k off and hung up. He is bi-polar(like our 10 yr. old daughter) and gets manic. I am disabled and HE choose to leave the relationship( he is on his 17 GF since 1997) and move 1000 miles away to be with "the love of his life."

I have tried to foster a relationship between his daughter and him but he just gets mad.He is always mad. He is still doing heroin and drinks(but says he is sober) He is on Felony probation for DUI, driving on a supended licences, and 10 pounds of pot in the trunk.

 What more would you have me,as a single mom struggling to take care of OUR disabled daughter, do to help him? Without some support from her dad,she is missing out on things that she should be able to participate in. Is this fair to her while dad buys a house w/ GF #17, 2 new cars(I don't have a car),a 5,000.00 computer system, and Nextell Phones,etc? I want him to have a good quality of life,but our daughter deserves one too.Don't you think so? So, what could I do to make it "fair?" Thanks

 

Copyright © SPARC - A Parenting Advocacy Group
Use of this website does not constitute a client/attorney relationship and this site does not provide legal advice.
If you need legal assistance for divorce, child custody, or child support issues, seek advice from a divorce lawyer.