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Author Topic: 1040 for CS calculation when joint ?!?!  (Read 9912 times)

spinner

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1040 for CS calculation when joint ?!?!
« on: Jul 05, 2007, 01:58:46 PM »
Hi,
I was wondering if when you are remaried and filed a join tax return 1040 you can "not give it to the court" based on the fact that it contains private information on the other peoples on the join return?

like my wife's income, her SSN number, her daughter's SSN number and name, ....


ex wife is very creative to use that information to create problems (identity thieft). went as far as mailing drug one time pretending it was me to get me in trouble, .....

thoughts ?


mistoffolees

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RE: 1040 for CS calculation when joint ?!?!
« Reply #1 on: Jul 05, 2007, 09:09:21 PM »
I'd suggest talking with your attorney since this seems to depend a great deal on where you are.

In my case, my attorney said that it's hard to keep anything from an ex during the divorce phase since the court's view is that the process should be open. They will argue that there are safeguards to prevent misuse of information (even though they're hard to enforce).

Good luck.

MixedBag

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RE: 1040 for CS calculation when joint ?!?!
« Reply #2 on: Jul 05, 2007, 09:24:44 PM »
black out everything that pertains to her.

And then run it through the copier machine again.

See if you just do the first part, you'll still be able to read the information by holding it up to the light (guess who made that mistake in the past?? -- actually, it's funnier than that, but that's for another day).

Attach your W-2s, not hers.

And if the line where it says W-2 income reflects both your incomes, black it out, and the W-2 will have just yours.


spinner

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RE: 1040 for CS calculation when joint ?!?!
« Reply #3 on: Jul 05, 2007, 09:33:32 PM »
this is a good idea.
Thanks

To answer the first person, a lawyer is great for who has 150$ an hour to spare. personally by asking questions here I am asking for other's experience.

It is not a lawyer's word but I'd have spend over a million if I asked my lawyer all the questions

mistoffolees

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RE: 1040 for CS calculation when joint ?!?!
« Reply #4 on: Jul 06, 2007, 06:31:35 AM »
>this is a good idea.
>Thanks
>
>To answer the first person, a lawyer is great for who has 150$
>an hour to spare. personally by asking questions here I am
>asking for other's experience.

That's true. But by relying on information here, you are:
1. Risking that someone who doesn't have a clue will give you bad advice.
2. Ignoring the difference between your state and 49 other states.
3. The people here don't have all the facts (not to mention that some questions are so badly worded that it's hard to tell exactly what the person is looking for when giving a response).

While this is a useful forum for sharing experiences and giving guidance, IMHO when you're facing a legal issue, you really should rely on a local lawyer rather than some anonymous people with no legal experience.

Considering the importance of the issues being discussed here, I suspect you'll find a lot of people who WISH they had seen an attorney rather than doing it themselves.


jcsct5

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RE: 1040 for CS calculation when joint ?!?!
« Reply #5 on: Jul 06, 2007, 11:49:22 AM »
I would black out your SSN and anybody else's on the return as well. It is possible for a copy of the return to get into your file and in many states those case files are public record.

I don't know what state you are in but in my state the new spouses income is used to identify what tax bracket you are in, which effects how much money you have available after taxes for support. So there may be a reason to allow the court to know what your spouse makes.

HelpingHands

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RE: 1040 for CS calculation when joint ?!?!
« Reply #6 on: Jul 06, 2007, 12:51:21 PM »
Actually, I was just in this situation in December. BLACK OUT all information not pertaining to you... your wife's social,her  b-day,her kids/your kids not by ex #1-  full names, b-dates, socials, etc. your wife's W-2 Info, etc.

Soc told me that it would be courteous to ask the other parties attorney if it would be acceptable to them. I didn't ask because, like someone above's situation- the people I am dealing with HAVE stolen others information and her new husband has been busted for forgery, stealing, and numerous other crimes  and I blacked it out anyways. What was she going to say? "I need your wife's and your wife's children's social security information" ?? Explain to me why it's relevant!

If you don't black it out and it goes to court, you can OBJECT to the document being shown in it's entirety(sp) with the IRRELEVANT(sp) information legible and ask the judge to blacken the info out (problem is, they may just possibly run a pen mark through it, still leaving it visible).

spinner

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RE: 1040 for CS calculation when joint ?!?!
« Reply #7 on: Jul 06, 2007, 01:01:39 PM »
can I send a blacked copy to the judge as well or does his copy needs to be clean ?!?!

MixedBag

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RE: 1040 for CS calculation when joint ?!?!
« Reply #8 on: Jul 06, 2007, 03:52:14 PM »
blacked out

spinner

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RE: 1040 for CS calculation when joint ?!?!
« Reply #9 on: Jul 06, 2007, 06:15:08 PM »
you don't think the judge will wonder why I blacked out the company name where I work on the W2, my Address, ... my SSN ok
same on the 1040 if I blacked all how does he knows it's even mine ? :D

mistoffolees

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RE: 1040 for CS calculation when joint ?!?!
« Reply #10 on: Jul 06, 2007, 07:53:12 PM »
>you don't think the judge will wonder why I blacked out the
>company name where I work on the W2, my Address, ... my SSN
>ok
>same on the 1040 if I blacked all how does he knows it's even
>mine ? :D

I think you're begging for a contempt citation if you black out your employer, address and SSN on the paperwork you file with the judge.

HelpingHands

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RE: 1040 for CS calculation when joint ?!?!
« Reply #11 on: Jul 07, 2007, 04:53:43 PM »
I wouldn't go so far as to blocking out your employer's info. The wife's irrelevant info, like DOB- SS#, etc - yes.  You start marking through stuff like you're hiding  things, you will not do well in front of the judge. You make it look like a chicken scratch document, I'd bet you will be ordered to produce a clean copy.

Just out of curiosity, who's requesting the info? The judge? The other attorney for discovery? The child support division?




MixedBag

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Spinner....
« Reply #12 on: Jul 07, 2007, 04:59:04 PM »
everything relevant to YOU you have to share.

everything relevant to your spouse, black it out.

On the 1040, income is added together,

on the W-2, it's all about you and not her.

So black out JOINT information on the 1040, but nothing on your W-2.

spinner

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RE: 1040 for CS calculation when joint ?!?!
« Reply #13 on: Jul 07, 2007, 07:12:12 PM »
the judge requested the info.
no CS division involved and no attorney involved just us and the judge

mistoffolees

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RE: Spinner....
« Reply #14 on: Jul 08, 2007, 07:15:08 AM »
>everything relevant to YOU you have to share.
>
>everything relevant to your spouse, black it out.
>
>On the 1040, income is added together,
>
>on the W-2, it's all about you and not her.
>
>So black out JOINT information on the 1040, but nothing on
>your W-2.


Maybe. If the judge asked for a return and you provide a redacted return, you could easily get in hot water.

Better to ask first.

spinner

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RE: Spinner....
« Reply #15 on: Jul 08, 2007, 09:04:31 AM »
what about the copy I send to the ex-wife ?

mistoffolees

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RE: Spinner....
« Reply #16 on: Jul 08, 2007, 12:27:20 PM »
>what about the copy I send to the ex-wife ?

The ex wife can get a copy of the one you file with the court anyway.

Sorry, but that's one of the side effects of divorce. You lose a lot of privacy.

As I said, ask the court clerk or an attorney, but I'd be surprised if they let you black out very much (maybe your spouse's SSN, but not much more). But since your ex has a legal right to much of the information and can get much of the rest, I think you're worrying about something that's going to happen, anyway.

Focus on the consequences - if she does something with the information and you can prove it, she can be punished. Unfortunately, just knowing that something bad happened after you gave her the information isn't proof. If she tries something, contact the company she tried to use your information with and ask them to investigate the fraud. Chances are that they'll be able to track her down.

leon clugston

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RE: 1040 for CS calculation when joint ?!?!
« Reply #17 on: Jul 09, 2007, 07:37:11 PM »
when in doubt and questioning what is alleged to be legal, go look it up on the federal side. No other person, or persons is repsonsible for youre alleged debts, nor can they be held for youre alleged debts. all Information,financial and such of theres is useable or admissable, of course there is some here who will argue, but there protecting what the Supreme Court has established as absolute fact, Cooperative Federalism, its where the state are bound by the federal regs under the Cooperative agreements.

mistoffolees

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RE: 1040 for CS calculation when joint ?!?!
« Reply #18 on: Jul 10, 2007, 05:47:11 AM »
>when in doubt and questioning what is alleged to be legal, go
>look it up on the federal side. No other person, or persons is
>repsonsible for youre alleged debts, nor can they be held for
>youre alleged debts. all Information,financial and such of
>theres is useable or admissable, of course there is some here
>who will argue, but there protecting what the Supreme Court
>has established as absolute fact, Cooperative Federalism, its
>where the state are bound by the federal regs under the
>Cooperative agreements.


Just to note that your view is not supported by legislation OR case law.

notnew

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RE: 1040 for CS calculation when joint ?!?!
« Reply #19 on: Jul 10, 2007, 09:53:00 AM »
Black out the information pertaining to your wife, other childern, etc.

She is not entitled to your wife's information nor any other children's. The court can only compel a party to the case to provide information and your wife and others are not a party to the case.

In the alternative, I'd offer W-2's. This gives the financial information without allowing your ex the chance to do something fishy if she were so inclined.

JMHO.

mistoffolees

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RE: 1040 for CS calculation when joint ?!?!
« Reply #20 on: Jul 11, 2007, 01:09:57 AM »
The only problem with that is that it sounds like (unless I'm reading something into it) the judge asked for tax returns. Giving him W2s when he asked for tax returns is a sure way to get in trouble.

HelpingHands

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RE: 1040 for CS calculation when joint ?!?!
« Reply #21 on: Jul 11, 2007, 06:52:09 AM »
As Soc once said to me, " you can not provide what you do not possess."

 If he doesn't have the return, just the W-2s, that's all he can provide(though it appears he has the full return).

 

ocean

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Yes....
« Reply #22 on: Jul 11, 2007, 08:17:25 AM »
I would just bring your W2's the first time and see if that is fine. They request it at our child support hearings all the time but they never asked for it when we got there....
Once I whited out all my info and the bottom line (so BM did not know what I make) and it was fine.. DH had his W2's and paystubs to prove what he was making....
Good luck!

mistoffolees

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RE: 1040 for CS calculation when joint ?!?!
« Reply #23 on: Jul 11, 2007, 11:20:03 AM »
>As Soc once said to me, " you can not provide what you do not
>possess."
>
> If he doesn't have the return, just the W-2s, that's all he
>can provide(though it appears he has the full return).

As Soc also might have said: "You an go to jail for contempt for lying to a judge".

It just seems like a pretty risky strategy - especially since it's not very believable that the OP doesn't have (or can't get) copies of their tax returns.

ocean

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RE: 1040 for CS calculation when joint ?!?!
« Reply #24 on: Jul 11, 2007, 11:50:53 AM »
I would not lie...
Just here are my W2's....."owe I did not bring them"....

HelpingHands

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RE: 1040 for CS calculation when joint ?!?!
« Reply #25 on: Jul 11, 2007, 01:55:32 PM »
Mist I agree. That's why I said 'it appears he has the full return" OP needs to not appear deceitful, but cautious about marking out the irrelevant information. Going overboard will certainly find him in the hotseat with the judge and yes possibly even in contempt.

The employer information will need to be known to set the child support through DCSE, right? So that needs to stay just as the wages do. Wife's information can't be used in determining child support and therefore has no bearing on the case.

You are correct that you assume to lose some privacy once you marry someone with an ex and kids. But if you keep your finances seperate from the wife's then they can not subpeona her records...joint checking, savings, etc.

I will have to say my attorney said that I needed to list the vehicles that are in my wife's name- to not appear to be trying to hide assets. Judges (and other attorneys) will make a mountain out of a molehill. OP is simply trying to protect his wife's privacy. Anything beyond that is IMHO unreasonable and will be frowned upon by opposing counsel and the court.

>>As Soc once said to me, " you can not provide what you do
>not
>>possess."
>>
>> If he doesn't have the return, just the W-2s, that's all he
>>can provide(though it appears he has the full return).
>
>As Soc also might have said: "You an go to jail for contempt
>for lying to a judge".
>
>It just seems like a pretty risky strategy - especially since
>it's not very believable that the OP doesn't have (or can't
>get) copies of their tax returns.

leon clugston

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RE: 1040 for CS calculation when joint ?!?!
« Reply #26 on: Jul 11, 2007, 08:30:40 PM »
>>when in doubt and questioning what is alleged to be legal,
>go
>>look it up on the federal side. No other person, or persons
>is
>>repsonsible for youre alleged debts, nor can they be held
>for
>>youre alleged debts. all Information,financial and such of
>>theres is useable or admissable, of course there is some
>here
>>who will argue, but there protecting what the Supreme Court
>>has established as absolute fact, Cooperative Federalism,
>its
>>where the state are bound by the federal regs under the
>>Cooperative agreements.
>
>
>Just to note that your view is not supported by legislation OR
>case law.
>
Supported by tons of case law, you just choose to ignore them for youre own personal enterest

Genie

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This is an eary one...File Separately!!!!
« Reply #27 on: Jul 28, 2007, 05:43:59 PM »
That is the only way to keep her information out of it.  You can black out her SSN and name but her income will be part of the bottom line so nothing you can do.

 

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