My situation

[dad2476]

I was told about a month ago by my wife that she was going to file for divorce. She quickly told me that she wasn't going to file for a while so that I would have time to get on my feet. We made it for 5 years on our own before moving into her mom's house a year and a half ago. I kept asking her to leave with me and get our own place. She always balked at the idea after acting as if she was wanting to be a free standing family again. So, a week later, I found my own place. I only work 20 hours a week because I am a full time student. We have a 2 1/2 year old daughter together that was completely born with love. My little girl is a "Daddy's Girl!" Knowing how much I love this child, my wife decides 2 weeks after telling me was going to wait a while to file, telss me that she has papers for me to sign. She tried to get me to sign the papers as soon as I saw her. I declined. After reviewing the "Temporary Orders" she had drawn up by her mom, the paralegal for my wifes lawyer, I was astounded to read that the orders were that I would sign over sole custody and control of my daughter. Also that I would have visitation rights. I am not a visitor! I contributed to this childs life, financially and more importantly, her conception. My wife would not have this beautiful little girl if it were't for me! Now she wants to treat me like a criminal and punish me because she wants a divorce? I am already in a position where I don't get to see my 13 year old son because his mom has the state of Colorado on her side. I do not want to be pushed out of another childs life! Especially, because it took me 3 1/2 years before I got my wife pregnant. I wanted to make sure that she would always be my wife and love me because I would not be in this position again. Goes to show you that people can completely fake a person out by acting a certain way for so many years. Anybody ever heard of BTK? She doesn't seem any different than him with acting a certain way but harboring a deep secret that everything says and does is a lie. I will not sign over sole custody! I will ot let her control me anymore! I will not let her drive me away from the only person in this world that still loves me! The only one that I truly love. My daughter.

[Kent]

You MUST file first!

To do this, you have two options:
1) Hire an attorney, and insist that he/she files TODAY
2) Go to the courthouse, and ask the clerk to asist you finding the right forms, and file yourself.

Personally, I'd hire an attorney to do this for me.

Whoever files first has the upper hand!

Stay clear of smoking, alcohol, drugs, or anything else that can be used against you.
Do NOT angage in any hostilities towards your wife.

You made a big mistake moving out; that's abandonment. But it's done, you have to try and make the best of it.
Which state are you in now?

Good luck.

Kent!

[dad2476]

I left because she wanted me out. Is that still abandonment? I live in Kansas. She has already filed for the divorce. I just haven't signed the papers.

[Kent]

Yep, that is abanondment.

And if she already filed first, you'll have an uphill battle.

Unless you can prove that she's abusing the kids, a prostitute and/or doing drugs in front of the kids, she will end up with custody.

Just start documenting everything, and be a civil as you can be.

Kent!

[reagantrooper]

No I dont think this is abondonment at all, far from it! Yes you should have stayed in the house and just ignored her and carried on and let her do what she was going to do. Thats water under the bridge.

If she filed then there must be a tempory CS, Parenting time order. Is there and what does it say?

Does she aledge any abuse?

You need to educate yourself and this site is a great place to start!

Whats the deal with your Son? Why dont you see him? You can bet your ass this will be used against you by this Mom. So be prepared for it.

[Kent]

Any judge will see this as abandonment. You left voluntarily; there was no court order or anything like that. Especially if she claims that one day you just packed and left.

If she filed doesn't mean there is a temporary CS order; this is generally determined during the first hearing, for which you will need to be served.
Check with the courthouse though, she may have given your old address in an attempt to not have you at this hearing, so she can get a default judgement.

Same thing for parenting time order.

Be prepared for any kind of abuse charges (mental, sexual, physical, etc. etc.)

Kent!

[notnew]

Don't let it start off on the wrong foot or you will spend the rest of your children's lives living with the screwed up stuff that happens RIGHT now.
 
Keep us posted!

[dad2476]

Okay, she hasn't actually filed because she asked me to help her pay for it. I was mistaken before. I am really pretty sure that she will not accuse me of any abuse. About the abandonment issue, I am very disturbed by this because I would never leave my family. The reason I left, was because I was in a position where my wife had told me she wanted to end our marriage, and I was living in her mom's house, and was totally uncomfortable. It was a place where the woman I had gave my life to for the past 8 years, hated me and would whisper and get quiet when I was around. My ex mom in law systematically destroyed my marriage to her daughter. Could any of you be in a position like that and want to stay there? Would you stay there? In regards to my son, I was 17 when he was born. I was definitely not ready for parenting, and had no clue what my rights were as a Father. Now, his mom controls everything and when he starts to come around and starts to enjoy himself at my house, she takes him away again and won't let me see him. I sure know how to pick them don't I?

[Kent]

Whatever happened, happened. You can't turn back the clock.

Look forward.

Regardless the circumstances, moving out is always a bad option.
If she wants you to help pay to file for divorce, that is great. But only on your terms.
There are good parenting plans available on this website, use them in your divorce filings, and do not file anything joint unless it is what you want, and she has signed it.

Kent!

[dad2476]

Would you help pay for a divorce that you didn't want? I'm wondering because I have never been in this position before and don't know the "Etiquette" involved in divorce.

[notnew]

That it doesn't matter if you don't want the divorce. It is happening and you cannot stop it now. If you allow her to file first and make YOU the defendant in the action, believe me, you ain't seen how bad you can get screwed yet.

YOU are not responsible for her legal fees. YOU need to file, YOU need to establish how and when you will see your child, YOU need to file to get custody established, YOU YOU YOU because if YOU wait for her to do things the right way or the way YOU think they should be, SHE will get EVERYTHING she asks for and then YOU will be screwed with NO WAY OUT OF IT!

I am sorry to say this but you seem a little hard headed about the situation. None of us can tell you how to fix the problems in your marraige or how to mend your broken relationships, but we CAN tell you what WILL happen if you don't come to your senses and realize that your A** is on the line if you just keep sitting around waiting for a magic fairy to come along and put your life back right.

Blaming your MIL is a lost cause. It doesn't matter WHO influenced your wife, she asked you to leave, you did and that is abandonment. YOUR actions from this point forward will determine the type of settlement you get and if you get to be a parent to your kid or not because believe me, you may be the legal father, but your rights will be taken in a second if she says and does the right things.

Please protect yourself now. Later is too late.

[reagantrooper]

You guys are thowing the "A" word around way to much.

In this day and age of the "no fault" devorce, him moving to a different AO out of MIL home is going to make about as much differece as his X acusing him of smokong pot or him acusing her a F***ing his best friend.


Now if he moved out and disapeared from the childs life for 1,2,3 10 years that would be abandenment. This is not the case acording to this poster.

[Kent]

Moving out IS seen as abandonment, no matter how long ago it happened.

Next to that, you will be hard-pressed to claim the mother is an unfit mother; you voluntarily moved out and left the kids in her care, so she can't be unfit. No parent would voluntarily leave their child with an unfit person.

And her accusing him of smoking pot is definately a serious accusation that needs to be rebutted instantly with a voluntary drug test.

However, him accusing her of smoking pot, or her doing his best friend indeed caries no weight; she IS the mother, after all.

Kent!

[notnew]

However, she can allege he abandoned them and possibly make it stick. When I separated from my ex, she filed stating I had abandoned them, was paying no bills, she had no idea where I was, and had listed the home she was living in as my last known address even though she had my new address, phone number etc. AFTER I went to the court to file for emergency visitation order so I could see my child and discovered she had filed for divorce, I was served at work the very next evening. Isn't that funny?

All states are not no-fault. Mine is a fault state where you are still the Plaintiff and/or Defendant and treated like a criminal matter.

What I am trying to say here very diplomatically and now even more emphatically, that she can file and make all kinds of accusations and since she files first, he has to defend whatever crazy stuff she comes up with. If you don't believe it, you are living on another planet, it happens every day.

He really needs to act NOW to preserve himself financially, and his relationship with his child. It is a critical time right now and if she sets the stage against him, he will be climbing a mountain and he may never reach the top. It doesn't matter if her allegations are true or not, the court gives too much credence to lies and allows them to become the truth no matter what.

JMHO - he can do what he wants, but I fear he will regret not taking actions to protect himself in advance.

[reagantrooper]

No arument here, RE him acting now!

[wysiwyg]

I agree with Kent, My DH's first attorney told him he had to file for divorce and temp custody first and get a kick out order on her becasue of her abuse to him and the child, he refused becasue he felt that was immoral, she did it to him the next day, needless to say it has been an uphill battle for the last 13 years and almost 100K in attorney's fee's to even get to see his child and exercise his court ordered times, because the admitted abuser got custody, and has violated the court order SEVERAL times resulting in 6 comtemts.  Does she learn - nope - do we get to see the child - nope.

Additionally, I worked with a gal that split with her DH, & due to the end of the school year, she agreed to move and leave the kids for the last month of school so as not to change them to another district, guess what?  Hubby filed for abandoment as soon as she left and he got all the  kids.  That WAS considered abandoment.  

Never give up willingly what you have, hang on tight.

[dad2476]

Thank you all for your advice and input. I do appreciate it. I may seem a little hard headed when I ask the questions I ask. I understand that the way a person says something, can determine how it is received from others. Please understand that when I ask questions like these, I am merely wanting to understand the issues at hand. I do have an appointment today with a Divorce Lawyer. Supposedly the best in town. I am banking on that fact. One question though, my ex MIL is the para-legal for my Ex wife's lawyer. Isn't that a conflict of interest? He was our lawyer when we filed for bankruptcy. I will find out later today from my lawyer most likely. Just wondering. I do understand that waiting for a fairy to come and fix my life is not going to happen. I know that we have started a ball rolling that will not change it's course. I just have a real hard time with the fact that some of you are saying that I abandoned my family. I could understand it if I had split and never stayed in contact with her. But, I do have contact with her. I see my Daughter on Wednesday nights after I get out of school, then when I get off of work on Saturdays, I go and pick up my Daughter and keep her until Monday morning when I take her to daycare. I have not just up and left my family. I was told, by my ex, that she was filing for divorce, would wait to file to give me some time to get on my feet and get a roomate. I think she expected me to stay there as long as I could and drag my feet in an attempt to keep our marriage alive. Beleive me, that was my first thought! After a couple of days of thinking real hard on it, I made the decision to go ahead and get an apartment because my boss' grandma would let me move in right then without paying her the rent and deposit upfront. I could stay and be resented by my ex and her mom for delaying, or I could start to take care of myself and look out for my best interest and not wait until she decided to kick me out with nothing, when the apartment would already be rented out. As I stated earlier in this message, we filed bankruptcy, so I don't have credit or the ability to get it at this time. I don't think that she is really going to try and completely keep my Daughter from me because of the damage it will do to my Daughter, I do however believ that she will do everything in her power to make sure that she has all of the control in this situation. And that is what scares me the most. I have seen what she does when I give her power. In the past it was, You willl do this or that or you have lost your family. Then when I did exactly what she wanted, she came up with more demands. Then when I would comply to those demands, she came up with more! She is one of those women are oppressed people that have to control people to make themselves feel good about themselves or that they are worth more than others because they have a position of power and control. That is scary! Sorry for the novel, but I just needed to get this out there. Thanks

[wysiwyg]

You can believe that you did not abandon your family and I do not think anyone is accusing you of that, however it is what the court WILL PERCEIVE.  You voluntarily left, therefore this is what they see.  

The courts can do what they want and how they want, example, DH is NOT college educated, had good jobs and was laid off due to the amount of time he had to take off to go to court, he has not ever been able to get that kind of job back, Ex's attorney presented verbal argument in closing to the court that DH was college educated due to his high paying jobs, and we were never given the oppurtunity to refute that.  OUtcome = we now pay cs based upon a 75K a year job, when DH is a custodian for a school.  That is called imputed income.  

Second example, court took 3.5 years to rule on a cs obligation, when DH was laid off from work, court assigned us an arrearage payback, we paid failthfully in cash every week for 5 years.  Prosecutor came along froze all assets and accounts, and took 9500 from us leaving us destitute, told them we had not broken any court order they said "we dont care we can take it becasue we can", told them we had another child at home and that would leave her without a home, they said their responsibility is to the child of the first marriage and not the subsequent family and that if we wanted to reatin our custody of her and they would not come and take her we would find a way to keep a roof over our heads.  

So my point is that by leaving the court will perceive you as abandoning your family, when you felt the best outcome was to do as you did, unfortunately it will come back to bite you and the court can and perhaps will make some unfair and weird rulings.  Be prepared, you have a very long uphill and sometimes impossible road to travel.

[gipsy]

Here's my take , I have been through with it all long since . Certain people on this site give very wrong and innapropriate information :
    I' And they are not good atty's , And don't know the legal term for abandonment , As I remmeber it , It is willfully leaving not paying support or seeing the child for six weeks , Now If you go file for a temporay parenting plan , And attempt to see the child , Bring a witness  . If " She refuses Visits and you have a witness and she say's you abandoned , Then you have proof  that she Is lying to the court .
   Moving out does not constitiute abandonment , And the court has seen it all , My case I never saw my son for 1 year due to her Bull ,  And She tried to say Abonment " But My atty just said Mr XXX Is here now to get a parenting plan ,
   The basics In wash state are if this gets really messy you appoint a Guardian Ad Litem , And this is supposed to be a person that represents the child , And will report to the court in a doc . Called the report of the Guardian ,
    In short Mine looked like this
    Mrs XXX [Mom Say's Dads the BAD GUY " And  I GAL Have Not been given any police report etc , Witness , Or proff that dad is a bad guy ,
   And Mom cliams dad is Bad In Many way's ,
       Dad : Has a job and a house and a room with a Bed and toy's waiting for the minor child ,
   Conclusion and recomendation of the Guardian Ad Litem ::: Dad should see the child EWvery other weekend and thursday after school, . Every other holiday etc ,
    Now here's the fact , They make up these accusations , And most likely they aren't true and the court know's this and the court [Judge ] Doesn't go investigate , So they appoint A GAL And the GAl does the Investigation and report ,
  I think your report mayt look like :  
   GAL Reort to the court of Where ever :
   Dad moved out >
   Mom Claims abandonement , But dad say's they weren't getting along ,
   So I see that dad goes to college , And has a part time job , And a place to live ,
   Conclusion : Dad will see the child >
    Now the abandonemnt  won't stick at all , But
  My atty explained to me .
   " You left and Mom has the child " Now the judge will have to have a good reason to change this arrangement " And won't be likely to Because why would he change what you have already done ,
   SO  You really need to post on Socratreaser's board and not really just ask us , We are all just people that have been through it and should not even give you advice , But I support you in moving this forward in the form of a parenting plan ,
   AND You have to be Legally served by a person the LEAGALY serves Court papers and files a notice of service too the court , SO Post to Socrateaser
    So Try posting on Socrateasers board , He gives very straight forward info ,
   

[dad2476]

Thank you for your feedback. How do I post on Socrateasers board? When I dropped off my daughter yesterday, her mom asked me if I had signed the temporary orders she had given me. I told her that I had not and that I would not sign over complete custody and control of my daughter to her. She immediately got upset and defensive and said that they were only temporary. I said that even if they are "Temporary" which, nothing is really temporary, I would not even start to do that. I asked her if I was to want comlete control and custody, would she sign the papers? Obviously she said no so, I told her that it's not fair for her to ask me to do that when she would never do that. She got so upset that she said if I want to talk about this any further that I would need a lawyer. I asked her why she is being like this? I told her that if she would just cool out a little bit, we could make this work without running to the courts snitching on eachother and having a war with my Daughter in the middle. She finally calmed down and said that she wants me to have my girl every-other weekend instead of every weekend and that I could still have her on Wednesdays. I said that I would be okay with that. I said, "See, if we both just stop trying to screw eachother and work together in the interest of my daughter, everybody will get what they deserve and everyone will be happy. Most importantly, my Daughter will be happy because her parents aren't at eachother's throats all of the time.

[notnew]

You post on Socrateaser's board just like here. There are mandatory guidelines you must follow with him.

I can tell you he will give you "advice" that looks very much like the "opinions" that have been posted here by myself and Kent. However, he most likely will have more direction about what needs to be done and when. He also knows his stuff!

Gipsy is not entirely correct. Also, Gipsy did not post a very coherent message. The jest of which I took as an offense to the wisdom I have gained from going through this messed up legal system for over 6 years.

All states have different laws. Abandonment is a real issue and is a LEGAL term. It is important to realize that legal train of thought is not always logical or right, but you have to learn how it works to be able to move in those circles.

Please go to Socrateaser. Please see a lawyer. Please don't let her fool you into signing those papers. Nothing is temporary. You are right about that. Arguing with her without a witness present (preferably a video camera - totally impartial) can lead to trouble.

Her actions have spoken a thousand words. She wonders why can't everyone get along and be nice for the child's sake when she has been the aggressor in these actions. Why wouldn't you feel defensive? She's given you every reason to feel as if she's attacking you! Listen to your instincts on this one and move very carefully.

I am the first one to say, DON"T FOLLOW MY ADVICE - I am NOT giving you legal advice. I am just relaying what I have learned from experience and THE LOSS OF MY RELATIONSHIP WITH MY CHILD DUE TO TO MY LACK OF KNOWLEDGE IN THE BEGINNING OF THIS MESS. Get legal representation. DON"T agree to any terms that threaten your relationship with your child.

Everyone has something to say about this stuff. You have to do what is best for you and your child. This board is only a place to bounce off your ideas and thoughts with others. Not a legal office.

I hope things work out for the best with you.

[gipsy]

If you two have agreed to Visits on your own . then here's advice like posted On Soc's board , Take a picture of you and the child with the front page of a news paper  , then have that news paper to show the phot graph to prove the date of visits ,
   
And for some really wierd reason Women can be very nasty ,
   So when you post to Soc  ask about  trying mediation ,
  I fired two atty's ,
And got a really good one that told me to file for mediation . And you do that My calling the court and asking if they recomend any one , And here in wash state Most of the time they want to see an effort before you spend the courts time ,
  What this will do is , If she refuses mediation altogether then you file that with the court and ask for your parenting plan and say , You had to file because she would not mediate , I did it and it worked very well and the court signed off on the Parenting plan
   Next I recommend you talk to an atty , But don't hire one yet ,
   And then I recomend that you get a temp parenting plan . And just cross off the issues about who has sole custody , And write in that She CAN NOt move the child away . And you should be striving for half of all holidays half of summer , Spring break , And Xmas ,Your Birthday
   You can battle this out in court and it will cost a lot , But this is what you will wind up with , You have already achieved status quo , The child IS Living with her and the courrt won't be likely to change that ,
  Now about the parenting plan ,  Take this into consideration ,
   Wash state law ,
      If you agree with out the Judge hearing the case then you could later schedule a trial , Because the case was not decided by a Judge , for now  you get to pursue a carreer , And she will get the kid , But The end result is much different .
  Next if you get an atty then she will get an atty and the bitterness will be enhanced , Don't even listen to any one that tells you all about the big battle's ,
   This took a couple year for things to mellow after I did all that ,
   So I would talk to atty's, Don't hire any untill you talk to like Five . And Soc will give you  legall advice , He is very good , Just make a great consideration to these facts .
    1 You have in a sense already given her custody.
     2 No Matter how you slice it at this stge you don't want to spend your tuition on a Battle when you will be very likely to get a parenting plan and a child support order in the end no Matter how much you spend ,
    So For what I see , Try to agree to a plan that doesn't determine sole custody And  Agree to Every other weekend and the above listed ;
   The advantage of a parenting plan is , If She agrees Then she can't claim Abandonement , the issue is over ,
  She is threatening to get you to sign , So Just add to the parenting plan what you want and XXXX off what you disagree with and sign it ,
   Of course after some legal advice , Then Say I signed and hand it to her , And she  sounds like she will Get upset , And that when you negotiate , But tell her if it's temporary then leave out the issue of sole custody , And say she is the care taker and has certain rights etc ,
   Thats basically what Mine say's any way .
   Again before you sign any thing or admit to any thing or do any thing at least get legal advice , And don't just hire some atty that talks a story about your rights and want's a deposit ,
   Get an atty that tells you about what you get in the area you are in and what a decent parenting plan is ,
   Remmember there is a lot of leah way in parenting plans , I had a friend that got the child every day before school, because mom worked day's and he worked nights ,
   Find out what the court faors in your area , And remmember it's bunk but this is the deal and you are going your way's so you can do it with a big battle , Or settle ,
   I had to do the big battle Because she had a Lot of money from her parent's , But in the end My  Third and very good atty said . All her money doesn't matter just get this in a trial and have a Guardian ad Litem report , And it will end ,
    This will go over way better without a court process , And you two will get along much better if some Money grubbung atty doesn't fuel the fire , So if you get an atyy be sure to tell them on the interview , You don't want to fuel it , you want it settled
   People on here can say they are offended etc  I don;t care most of this type of thing is simple , Just atty's make a lot of money to complicate your life ,
  Again I am NOT an atty And these are just some thoughts after my case is done
   Now All said, go to Soc's board and before you even post a question sit a read other peoples questions , And get a picture of how different the cases are , And how to number your questions

[notnew]

Gipsy,

In my state, you gon't get to mediation until you file and appear at the first hearing, then mediation is ordered as part of the case management plan. Your state may be different and the original posters state may be different as well.

Being that you stated in your earlier posting that people on here shouldn't be giving advice, I wonder why you offer so much "advice" in this post. Every case is not the same. You said that before. However, from our cumutalive experience here on this board, you must agree that being able to maintain a relationship with your child is more often than not a battle. This board was established so that we could have an outlet to vent our frustrations and a place to exchange stories, gain insight, and get ideas on how to handle things that are happening in our cases. While Socrateaser is an invaluable resource and has help many of us tremendously, the other posting boards can offer valuable assistance and support as well. I do agree that this poster should ask Soc for his view.

The poster got excellent information from both myself and Kent. Also, many of the things you posted were good ideas, suggestions, experiences of your own. Personally, I try to give objective opinions based on my experience and observations of others. I try to let people know from the start that they are in a difficult time of life and every move is crucial because you will end up living with the things that get set up in the early stages of these types of issues. Not every "if" happens that I try to cover, but it is always good to get information on these "if's" before they happen because usually, information gained after the fact is too late to make a difference.


He has NOT given her custody by simply allowing the child to live with her after he left. However, you are correct in the thought that this is the established arrangement and the court will most likely go with it if both parent's agree. Abandonment is a LEGAL term and we all need to come to that understanding. Arguing that he is still talking to his wife, seeing his child, and paying to take care of her is moot. He left the marital home and that is abandonment - meaning that he ended the relationship. It does not matter that he says he left because she asked him to. She may or may not admit to that. If she's talking to her lawyer, then most likely she will deny it. The court does not care about he said/she said. The facts are what will stand. That is how it is so easy to make wrong look right in these matters. There are no disinterested parties to be able to provide testimony so everything is your word against hers or heresay unless you get an expert witness to testify and that is someone you paid to testify on your behalf. I believe in family law there is most likely a billion dollar scheme going on where "expert" witness's are making a bundle and screwing up people's lives royally. It should be a regulated practice.

He should never agree to giving her sole custody and the fact that she has asked for it speaks volumes about her intentions. Obviously, you aren't stuck in a sole custody situation or you would be able to speak from experience. If she is unwilling to agree to joint custody (what it seems like), then he has no choice but to take it to court.

The fact that she is being difficult about establishing a shared parenting plan, regular parenting time for both parents, and the other issues that have been raised tell me without a doubt that he needs to act quickly to protect himself. Yes, women can get nasty. The court systems in place allow these types of women to legally steal your child and much more from you. If you get angry (like any normal person would), you are labeled as a violent or aggresive person (even if you NEVER touched anyone) and it will stick. If she decides to really put the heat on, she can say you were abusive in the marriage (even without ANY history of police reports, neighbors seeing bruises, etc.), and make it stick.

This is what I see. There was a problem with domestic abuse in our country years ago (still is to a degree but we are much more aware of it). I am not saying there is no female to male abuse, but the incidence of male to female abuse was higher and it was more socially acceptable. We have become aware of the wrong of these things, and put laws in place to protect women from abuse. However, in trying to make things right, the courts have put in place a mechanism for vindictive women, lawyers, and others to point a finger, accuse, and convict men with absolutely no proof or evidence other then their word. The courts also fail to recognize that a woman in this position is angry (most often) over the break-up of the relationship, the loss of the financial aspect, and IMHO the loss of the control over the person they supposedly love and has every reason in the world to retaliate by making false allegations, and doing whatever they can to "take him to the cleaners" as a form of punishment. So, in trying to right a wrong, the court/legal/governing forces we are subjected to have created a NEW wrong and the scales of justice are STILL unbalanced.


If the MIL is a para-legal and drafting documents for the daughter, she is praticing law without a license and the poster can file a complaint with the attorney grievance commission in his state.

Temporary agreements usually become permanent or are the foundation for the final one. This is why I say don't agree to a "temporary" agreement that has aspects you disagree with thinking it will be changed later. It won't.

Yes, attorneys can be a drain on your bank account and there are many out there who are lower than snakes. It is hard to find a good one and sometimes it is better to do it without one at all. However, pro-se is not always the best route and you are right to advise to interview several attorneys before making a decision.

I hope things work out for him and his child. I am glad you were able to resolve your case in a positive way. That is not the outcome for all of us and I am simply trying to help another from becoming victimized by this system.

[dad2476]

Will someone please tell me how to post on socrateasers board? I'm serious. Everyone says to post there, but no one has told me how. Is he somewhere on this site? Is there a link here on a certain page? Is it some other site? Please let me know. Thanks

[notnew]

Do you see the forum called Dear Socrateaser? That's it. You go there and post just like you did here.

However, the first post you will see is called Mandatory Forum Guidelines - read it so you will post correctly otherwise he most likely won't answer.

Sorry about that.

[gipsy]

There is a drop down Box that say'sjump  to another forum . Mine is in the upper right , Some times it is in the lower left , It is yellow inside and HAs the lillte pointer on the right , Drop it by clicking , And go to Socrateaser

[gipsy]

Well  My expierience was very similar in accusations of being abuseive and being a pedophile , I did every thing from Psych Evals to Polygraph testing , And two GALS and three atty's ,
   And yes What Often happens in Pierce county wash state is the commissioner is who you see for the first hearing , And they often say " Did these people try mediation ? If no they basically put you off and tell you to go ,
      Thge reason I say to agree is because My atty told Me to agree to the temp plan ,
  My Case was similar , My son was very young and here the parenting plan was spelled out by the GAL as a graduated plan , And I had to go to court EVERY TIME , But " they Are talking ! Which is very different than My case , And He stated he Had visits ,
   My Atty told me to Agree because of her Allegations , And If AShe agreed to a parenting plan , Then  We could say to the court She made these allegations , If She really believed it then Why would she Agree ,
   So On the next appearance Thats what Happened ,
   So Agreeing worked very well for ME ,
  Next Her and her atty Made up STORIES !!!
   But We had A GAL report that said no prooff ,
   So When We went to court the commissioner Listened to their story ,
   Then I said to My atty to tell the commisioner , , I don;t want the mud slinging I just want to see My son ,
  And the commissioner just smiled at Me and We worked out a plan right then and there ,
   So Yes My case was as Bitter as many peoples ,
  But I had a very good atty tell Me how this works .
When you go to the hearing the Judge/ Or Commissioner doesn't know who to believe and they don't come out of the court to see if it's true ,
 So they rule on the safe side , And thats when you think She Made the Allegation and won , With out proof just the allegation .
    BUT When I went to court and there was a GAl report that said there was no Proof of her allegations . Well thats when the Temp Plan was modified , Each time My expierince was that I got more time with My son ,
   My point to agrreing is , In wash state if the just has not decided the case then your agreement is null ,
  But you do Set the status quo , And She has custody ,
  this person has set the status quo ,
     And  You may think Of my advice as one way or the other , I don;t care ,
     But I state More than Once I am not an atty , I stated that these are My thoughts .
   And It is what I Also stated ,
  If you go through the legal process , Then you enact a BATTLE PLAN !
    My expierience is that this will take years to settle down and if The case gets postponed , It takes 6 mo's to a year for it to get In the couts callendar again , Akk the while this is misery ,
   Hopefully what One would get from My post is to Agree to a decent parenting plan . And try to stay out of the court , Because You will be paying an atty and apying and paying ,
   These two have already been talking and Alowwing visits , Wich Is a really good sign ,
  If she was really so wacky , She would do what happened to Me . I did not see My son For One year due to Her Allegations .
   There was a time she agreed to a relatively decent parenting plan , And I wished I would of taken It , But I battled it and would up with about what She offered , I Should have negotiated a little , And took It .
   Because at the real trial with a real superior court Judge 18 Months later I got about a standard Parenting plan . Wich I am Basically satisfied with , Because I have a carreer etc , And People only thing about the Battle when the heat is on ,
   But when the Dust settles you see things very differently And , Now I do , I personally recomend to NOT use the court except as a last effort ,
   And all the so call proffesionals ,. Well The more exposure and court process there is the higher the risk Is you will get incompetance , and Biassed reporting .

[mistoffolees]

Maybe I'm missing something.

You're still married, no one has filed for divorce yet, yet you're worried about whether you'll lose the child for abandonment?

Why don't you just move back in? You're still married and it's the family home. Obviously, you want to choose a spare bedroom or sleep on the couch, but you have every right to live there. 

THEN get yourself to an attorney and file before she can.

[notnew]

.

[mistoffolees]

I'm not sure why that would matter (other than making things less comfortable).

If I were him, I'd tell her that I'm moving back in with my wife and child. Probably in writing.

Now, if she or her parents say that he's not welcome there, then he'd have pretty good evidence the he hadn't abandoned the child - and that they are actually trying to keep him from his child. If they let him move in, then he's defeated the abandonment argument. Seems that he wins either way.

Of course, I'm not a lawyer, but that seems like the best thing to me. He really needs to talk to an attorney.