Need opinions from some Dads.......

[cc]

O.K., I have a moral dilemma here:

My husband's daughter got pregnant a few years ago, and had a baby a couple Christmas's ago.  I met her boyfriend at the restaurant where they worked (did not approve of the relationship, she barely knew him), and thought, dang, I'll bet she's not even on birth control (it would be just like her to do something like that).  A few weeks later she showed up at our house saying he had gotten arrested, and their relationship was over.

About a month later she shows up again with a tummy, and says she's put on 15 lbs and can't figure out why.  I was like, oh crap.

Alright, here's my dilemma.  She never told him about the baby.  She claims he put her in the hospital 4 times, has a daughter that he never pays attention to, does meth, and has been in and out of jail.  

My SD has a penchant for lying.  I mean a *big* penchant for it.   So without contacting anyone or interferring, I decided to just check the public records to verify her story.  I found prior traffic court records for the guy, so she wasn't lying about that, but no other records.  Now I haven't gained any police reports yet (wasn't that into researching the thing since it doesn't involve me - I just wanted to know if I was being lied to again), but I've checked all public records, and the worst this guy has done, apparently, is speed in his car without insurance.  Which is pretty bad, but still doesn't qualify him as a woman beating meth-head.

What makes me suspicious is this:  My SD has always said she wanted to marry a guy with a certain type of look so her kids would look a certain way (weird, I know - her and her mom are obsessed with physical appearance.  They want a bunch of tall, blonde haired, blue eyed Lebensborn babies.  It has nothing to do with meeting the child's needs with a stable upbringing and everything to do with breeding the perfect offspring).  Guess what the baby's father looked like?  You guessed it.  My dh's ex also was very possessive of her children, and referred to them as "my" kids instead of "ours", and would regularly make unilateral decisions regarding them, even though they have joint custody.  It was ridiculous.  

My SD told me before the baby was born that "This is just *my* baby.  It has nothing to do with (ex-boyfriend) at all.  It's just *my* son."  Gave me the willies.

So here's my dilemma:  I used to work for a P.I., and if there's one thing you learn it's "get it while it's hot".  In other words, a hot trail is better than a cold one.  So if you were in this situation, and you knew that a man was potentially being denied knowledge or a relationship with his own son, would you gather all the info you could in case the child wanted to find him later?  I wouldn't do anything unless he was 18 and asked me, 'cause I don't think it's my place.  But I just think everyone's buying her story on this hook line and sinker, and some guy out there might be getting his son stolen from him.

Help me make sense of this - and please don't be harsh, I've never really been in a situation like this before, so I'm genuinely perplexed.

[mishelle2]

well from my dh own experience of not finding out he had a son till son was 2 (from a one night stand) it has been hard, but as a parent I believe that you have an obligation to notify this man of his child, if you have to without him knowing it came from you .. then so be it. Forget your daughter, forget the father and remember the child, the child has a right to know both parents and make decisions about them when there older,  so if you dont want to tell him.. heck.. give me his number.. Ill call him and tell him for you.


In my honest opinion, I believe that there should be some sort of law past that would discourage this from woman. Like, the hospital sends out a notice to the fathers, or the insurance company does, or heck you cant get financial assistance until the father has been notified and you can prove it.

these are just my opinions cause Ive seen first hand the pain its caused.. ..

[cc]

mind me asking what kind of challenges the two of you have faced in this?  I have no idea what it would be like to be the parent, or the step-parent in this situation.

[mistoffolees]

>Help me make sense of this - and please don't be harsh, I've
>never really been in a situation like this before, so I'm
>genuinely perplexed.
>


While I'm sure you're not along, I have to think that there aren't THAT MANY people who have been in your situation, so don't feel bad about your perplexity.

You've got a lot of issues to deal with:

- The baby's father does have rights and a right to know
- What happens to your relationship with the SD if you tell the father?
- What happens to your relationship with your husband (I assume that you're still married to the girl's father) if you tell the father?
- Do you have some legal obligations in the matter? (Sounds like the girl is under 18. Does your husband have an obligation to tell the BM what you've discovered, for example, as part of the divorce decree?)
- Would you be open to a lawsuit if you DID tell the father?

Obviously, it's a mess. I wouldn't presume to tell you what I think you should do (frankly, I don't know what I'd do), but I can suggest that you consider 3 things:

1. Ask Socrateaser (or your own attorney) if there are any legal issues involved. Could you get in trouble for telling or could you get in trouble for not telling?
2. You might want to discuss it with a qualified counselor or if that's not possible, your pastor or someone else in that kind of shepherding role for their advice.
3. I don't see any mention that you've discussed it with your husband. It seems to me that you might want him to be involved in anything you do.

I suspect it will come down to your relationship with the SD and how important it is to you to maintain that.

[cc]

my sd, he tends to be easily duped.  But if her mother pulled this with him?  Then she'd be the lying bit@h from hell.

SD was 20 when she got pregnant, no legal issues there.

I wouldn't want to be the one to tell, but if I find out the guy is a really decent guy, I may try to find a way to let him know anonymously.  Either way, I feel very strongly about gathering as much information about him for his son as I can, so when he's old enough, he'll have something to go on.

Let me put it this way: My dh had a half brother no-one had seen for 47 years that he and his family were desperate to find.  They were ecstatic to find him.  I've had dreams about the grandparents I never met, and in those dreams I find out they're really alive and I can meet them.  I wake up devestated every time.  Faith Hill's first marriage fell apart because of her obsession with finding her biological mother.  I know my bio parents and so did my dh, but we were obsessed with finding other relatives we hadn't met, so multiply that out and that's how this little boy's gonna feel about his own father.  That's why I want to make sure the guy doesn't disappear into the woodwork because too many years go by.  I know technology's getting better, but still, you never know.

[mishelle2]

ok, heres my honest opinion, forgive me if it sounds harsh, It should not matter if you or anyone else feels he is a "descent" guy, because whether he is or isnt, does not change the fact that this is his child, and he  has the legal right to know it, if your husband doesnt agree, maybe you should look closer at his value system, ask him to put himself in his shoes.. same response?  
If everyone knows the truth but noone has the moral backing to stand up for what they believe in, then you are in for a rude awakening when this young man gets older and ends up resenting all of you for keeping his father from him.

You know, say this father isnt a "descent" guy right now.. maybe all he needs is something to turn it around for

I believe you have a moral obligation to this child to let the father know,then let him have the option to take it from there..  now some may not agree with me, but its my opinion.

[mistoffolees]

I agree with you that the father has rights - but there's one more thing.

I think she also has an obligation to the SD to be supportive and so on. If the SD feels that her life would be miserable with this guy involved, she's opening a can of worms. Not to mention that adults should be able to live their own lives without intrusion from their parents.

That's what makes this situation so difficult - there are two competing 'rights' and exercising one of them automatically negates the other.

For that matter, what if the alleged 'father' isn't really the father at all and some other guy is really the father. You could be disrupting this kid's life by telling him he has a child which isn't really his after all. Given what the original poster wrote about the SD, that's not entirely out of the question, either.

Having seen the rest of the story, I can't say it would be as black and white as you're making it.

[cc]

Number one: she was living with him up until a month after conception.  

Number two: the father has a very distinctive stance.  I just saw the little boy over Christmas, and he stands exactly like his father.  Feet out like a duck, long waisted, same kind of hair.  I used to work for a P.I., and for some reason I have a photographic memory for people's physical appearance.  That was the main thing I noticed about the Dad, and I'll be danged - his son has the same physical features.  Neither SD, her brother, my dh or their mother looks like that at all.

SD and I don't have a relationship.  We are not parent/child, in fact we barely tolerate each other once every couple of years because her personality is revolting.  Once she hit 23 I figured she's grown with a 2 year old son.  Dh can see her at will, but as I'm nothing but target practice for her, I'm done.

This is an issue of wanting to know the ethics of the situation.  Is it wrong of me to even gather the info?  Or should I be gathering info and sitting on it, or going even further and sending it?  It's very confusing, but I really don't want to be a target, so it would definitely be anonymous.




Pre-paid Legal and Identity Theft Protection
//www.blessedabundantly.com

[mistoffolees]

Reason #1 - if she's as unstable as you indicate, can you be sure she wasn't with someone else even once?
Reason #2 - Maybe, but I guess I'm not convinced. If she's attracted to the tall, blonde german types, could she have chosen someone else with similar appearance?

I'm not saying that she did, I'm just pointing out that the issue is a life-changing event and there is always a risk of a mistake (particularly from the way you've described SD).

Also, don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that you should avoid telling him because of the risk of error, either. I'm firmly in the "I don't have any clue what to do and am just thankful it's not me, and I don't even have the courage to offer advice on what I think you should do" camp.

As for wanting to know the ethics and gathering information, I agree with you completely here. I don't see any ethical issue about gathering information and exploring what you should do. Gathering as much information as you can and sitting on it seems to be a no-brainer from an ethical standpoint. I just can't seem to decide what I would suggest as far as telling him. That's why I suggested talking with a counselor, pastor, etc who is obligated to keep it quiet to explore your options.

If you just can't reach a conclusion, and if I were forced to decide, I'd probably go with "would I want to know if I were the father" and my own answer would be 'yes'.

Just a thought - is there some third party who knows him well who you could work with? Again, a pastor or someone like that?

[wysiwyg]

I agree - tough decision.  However look at it from another angle, what if you told this man and he turned out to NOT be the father as the above poster said, are you sure she was not with someone else even once?  

that is really pretty tough.  I believe that things have a way of working out themselves, if she ever asks for state assistance they will want the fathers name or several names in which to test for DNA, then will get the BF with support.  

Does you DH support your telling his daughter?

[cc]

and I'm not sure if I know anyone who could be a third party, but maybe someone will show up in my search.  I just think that once I know the true story, I'll have more information to let me know what to do.  If he truly is an abusive meth-head, well, that's a no brainer.  But I know he has another daughter out there, who would be this little boys sister.  I think they have a right to know each other (someday at least), whether it's convenient for my SD or not.  Siblings are siblings.

I'll give it plenty of time, thought, and counseling I can assure you.  I just needed to get some additional perspective.  It's really been eating at me lately and if I'm gathering information then at least I'm not just sitting around stewing about it.



Pre-paid Legal and Identity Theft Protection
//www.blessedabundantly.com

[cc]

in regards to his daughter.  I don't even know how to describe her.  She's beautiful, witty, smart, stylish, and one of the most cunning, evil hearted people I've ever met.  When people ask me why I don't like her, I just say, "She lures good people into doing bad things just to win her approval."

The only person besides me who understands how whacked she is is my SS, but the whole stepfamily thing gets in there so much that sometimes he'll defend her just because they're part of the same unit.  But he knows she's whacked.






Pre-paid Legal and Identity Theft Protection
//www.blessedabundantly.com

[BetterFuture4Kids]

my $0.02

First of all, there is no harm in gathering information about him or in getting counseling.  So, I think you absolutely should do that.

Here's a couple things I would think about, most of which have already been discussed in this thread:
-The child has a right to be supported financially and emotionally by his father, but just because you tell dad doesn't mean that he'll will actually support his son.
-If what the SD says is true, it could be worse for the father to be in the kid's life.
-Your relationship with your husband is obviously very important to you.  If you tell this guy without talking to your husband first, it will eventually get back to him, and that would be bad.
-Once you get the info you should probably have somebody who isn't involved in this to take a look at it to make sure you're looking at this "evidence" in the right light.

What I would do:
If I thought this guy would be a positive influence on the child's life for whatever reason (financially, emotionally, etc) then I would tell the father about the POSSIBILITY that he has a son.  I would choose to do it personally, but I can very much understand why you might want to do it anonymously.  Before I told him I would talk to your husband about how you feel you have a moral obligation to do this, and ask that he support you.

If I thought this guy wouldn't be a good influence on the child, I would save the information for the child for when he gets older.

Very tough decision!  Good luck!

[cc]

a long time.  :)







Pre-paid Legal and Identity Theft Protection
//www.blessedabundantly.com

[Bolivar]

How does she plain on supporting the child?

I've seen this situation many, many times before.   If she is irresponsible it is more than likely you will be raising the child.   Where is your step-daughters Mom in all this?

Should the father be involved - of course.  

If he is a nit-wit he will not be around much if at all;.  If step-daughter is a "nit-wit" she won't be around much either. (I've seen it before. Very sad for a child to have parents like this)  Hopefully this is not the case in your sisuation.

[CGS]

You say that you have zero relationship with your sd and that she's an evil, rotten person not worth your time or attention...

If I were in your shoes and felt the same way I would either 1) work to repair the relationship for the sake of my husband or 2) cut her out of my life entirely for the sake of my own sanity and emotional well being.  I really think that trying to dance down the middle of the two is causing YOU to be drawn into her negativity and is a wasted effort, pick one.

If you pick the first, you need to be open and honest with her and tell her your thoughts, the reasons behind them, and what you intend to do.  

If you pick the second, just walk away.  Getting involved with her child and a possible bio-father is a ticking time bomb.  You said yourself the ss sees through her but is very protective of her all the same, as is the rest of her family.. and by all rights they should be, that's what family is all about.  Recognizing each others faults, but lving each other and standing by one another regardless.  

If I were your husband and I had already expressed to you that I would like you to stay out of it, I would be outraged if you did the opposite. I think you're on the right track to seek counseling and to make your decision very slowly, because this is a very life altering act you are proposing.. for everyone involved.  

If this man comes back into her life, there will most likely be a legal battle.. one that you are directly responsible for and that the little boy involved will be very much impacted by at his age.  And along those same lines, your sd will likely turn to her parents, your dh included, to help her w/ attorneys, moral support, etc etc throughout the process... are you ready to welcome that mess into your home?

I think you are looking at this with blinders on.. not that I dont agree that a father has the right to know.. but that you are ignoring all the ramifications to YOU as a result of YOUR actions.. after all, as an adult you are responsible for your own conduct, and turning your dh and his childrens lives upside down may not be the best decision.

[cc]

someplace she was living in.  She's been asked to leave 5 homes in 5 states because of non-payment of bills, drug use, etc....  She lives on welfare, and God knows what else.  Her mother wants her home for the rest of her life, it's a really sick relationship.  Her mother never wants her to leave home, wants the baby to be raised there with her (at least until he's not a cute little baby anymore and she gets sick of him - she always does).  Believe me, SD will not be bringing him here anymore - she doesn't approve of us.  She'd sooner give the baby to the bio father than let us raise him, not that we're offering.

I'll tell you what's going to happen.  They're going to screw this kid up over the next 10 years, like Ex has done with all of her kids and stepkids (out of 5 kids that have left home so far, 2 are drug users, one is a severely depressed drop-out who drinks too much, 3 are welfare mothers, and the last one who's 12 just got picked up by the police for the first time recently).  Then when he's 12 or 13 and he starts getting into trouble, we'll get a phone call asking for help.  

I'm moving to Aruba and changing my name before then.

I've decided to find the father (on paper only), do a thorough background check including his family, and then sit on it for about a month or so while I get counseling on what to do.  I don't want to ask anyone what to do until I really know what this guys about first of all.  If he's a drug using loser, and his family is screwed up too, well, why bother.  But my SD lies about everything else, so why should I trust her on this?  I'm finding out for myself.




Pre-paid Legal and Identity Theft Protection
//www.blessedabundantly.com

[cc]

The legal battle would be a result of the fact that my SD got into bed with a man while deliberately staying off the pill.  These were her words.  How and when he finds out is not the issue, the issue is she decided to use him as an unwitting sperm donor, then deny him his own child.  I take zero responsibility for any court battle, in fact if he fought for his son, and I knew this little boy wouldn't have even known his dad if it weren't for me, I would wear it as a badge of honor.

If, and I mean IF this is a man of honor who really would be good to his son and really would fight for him.  That's what I don't know.

As far as my dh, well, with all the love in my heart - he can kiss my butt.  I've heard him bitch and moan for 12 years about how horribly his ex raised his kids, and how she kept his kids away from him.  He doesn't have a leg to stand on helping someone do the same thing to another guy.  If he took me to task on that, well, he can go back and live with his daughter and her mother as far as I'm concerned.  

However, I think the main reason I posted this in the first place was to get perspective, and for that I am very grateful for your post.  I wouldn't have a balanced view on this subject if it weren't for all different views being shared.  You make a very good point that this is a huge deal with alot of ramifications, and I should treat it accordingly.  I honestly don't want to be the person who does something about it.  I'm more of a research person who likes to present the facts to others and let them make a decision.  




Pre-paid Legal and Identity Theft Protection
//www.blessedabundantly.com

[mistoffolees]

>The legal battle would be a result of the fact that my SD got
>into bed with a man while deliberately staying off the pill.
>These were her words.  How and when he finds out is not the
>issue, the issue is she decided to use him as an unwitting
>sperm donor, then deny him his own child.  I take zero
>responsibility for any court battle, in fact if he fought for
>his son, and I knew this little boy wouldn't have even known
>his dad if it weren't for me, I would wear it as a badge of
>honor.
>


I think you may have misinterpreted the previous post. I don't think anyone was implying that you CAUSED the court battle - just that you could get dragged into the middle of one and needed to be prepared for that battle. It came across to me as concern for your welfare rather than blaming you for causing the problem.

IMHO.

[cc]

thank you for interjecting that perspective.  

On that note, I would have to say I definitely do not want to be dragged into anything.  If I was, I'd speak up honestly, but I'd rather not have to.  

I'm going to just find facts for now.  They'll determine much of what I do.  If I find out this guys an inmate somewhere, there's no way I'm letting him know where to find an innocent little toddler.  I just don't know what I'm going to find.

[durandal]

i know this is an old post, but i felt compelled to say something.

i thought i had a definite opinion about your dilemna UNTIL i read all of the posts. and what a dilemna that is.

here's my opinion:

first and foremost, i believe that you have a contractural obligation to your husband, that being marriage and its vows, and although i don't agree with his stance, i feel that you place your own familial well being in jeopardy your if you veto your mate's objections. maybe you can try to talk with him and get him to see the subject from a different vantage point - that of the child.

secondly, the child deserves to have access to both his parents, right now try to put the parents out of the equation and focus on the child. so many adults, teens and young lives have been scarred or destroyed by not having parents in their lives - it may happen that the parents might grow up and do the responsible thing, or that the whole thing could spiral down into tragedy, but the child deserves a chance with his biological parents. both of them.

thirdly, and this is from a new father's perspective - i have grown exponentially since my daughter's birth nine months ago. although i have issues with the BM, i am growing and am able to put hurtful memories in their place for my daughter's sake. as a father, i don't know if i could ever recover from being dealt a blow knowing that i fathered a baby who is now a man - and that i missed it all. even missing a little bit has caused me so much pain.

lastly, i wanted to agree that counseling for you would be a good idea - but please make it a impartial, fair and good counselor. its vitally important for all of the outcomes at stake here. please, try to include your husband in the counseling, because obviously the two of you have found a subject so important yet you both share different values and opinions on it. try to let him know how much it means to you to get this right.

Best of luck with this.