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Author Topic: BIG PROBLEMS  (Read 8686 times)

tido_12

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BIG PROBLEMS
« on: Jan 13, 2004, 06:40:57 PM »
>
> Comments: To whom it may concern;
>      My name is Jeena Kester I am the mother of four children.
>  Shayla 14 yrs, Shelton 9yrs, Mattea 5yrs, Baylee 3 yrs.  My two
> older children are from my first marriage and my two baby girls are
> from my current husband today.  My husband and I have been married
> for seven years.  He has always had an alcohol problem and can be
> very verbally abuse when he is drunk and has a temper when not.  He
> has had numerous alcohol tickets in the past because of his
> problems.  He also has had other addictions as well, cocaine,
>  methaphines, loretab.
>
>      In February or March of last year, My husband and myself both
> started to use Methaphines and put a huge strain on our marriage
> which lead to an altercation on August 17,2003.  At this time we
> both were under the impression that we both had quit using.  My
> husband started to drink when he come home from work.  This lead to
> a huge fight, he was accusing me of still using and started to
> scream and yell and call me every name he could.  All the children
> were in the house and were in their beds asleep.  My sister Lisa and
> her fiancé Jeff came over to our house to see if they could help
> matters and to calm my husband down.  Jeff usually could calm him
> down when he gets this way.  He becomes completely irrational.
>  About midnight my husband passed out for short time, when he woke
> up about 2:00 a.m.  The fight was on again, I was asking for the
> keys to one of our vehicles.  I wanted to leave with the children
> and go to my sisters until he was sober as I did numerous times in
> the past.  He would not give me the keys; instead he climbed in the
> master bedroom closet and got bullets out.  I asked what he planed
> to do with them and he said he was going to blow me away and have
> shoot out with the cops.  I was afraid ran out of the house and told
> Lisa and Jeff what he said.  Jeff went into the house and some how
> got into the bedroom.  He had loaded three guns, a high powered
> rifle, a shotgun, and a twenty-two rifle.  My nine-year-old son was
> across the hall from this bedroom and my three daughters were in the
> bedroom below.  Jeff convinced him to unload the guns and helped him
> and put them back in the gun safe.  Jeff told Lisa and I to get all
> the children in his truck.  We struggled with my husband with the
> two babies; he was trying to pull them from our arms.  We finally
> got all the children and left.  I never pressed charges on him for
> fear of what he would do.
>
>      However I did file for a protective order in the court and
> received one for about two weeks.  I did not have money for attorney
> and had to seek council through legal aid.  I have not worked
> outside the home for over ten years and have been the sole caregiver
> of all the children.  When it was time to go to court my husband had
> hired a well-known attorney through his uncles firm.  His uncle is
> very powerful and well-known attorney around here.  His attorney
> convinced my attorney to agree to mutual restraining orders, which
> has not been filed with the court to this day.  He also served me
> with divorce papers and custody papers.  I had stopped using Meth
> for about month at this point.  And after this I began to use again.
>  I used for a while and was arrested for numerous charges of Meth.
>  I spent one night in jail and the day I was released was served
> with a protective order.  He now had temporary custody of my two
> little girls.  I still had custody of my two older children.  I was
> very concerned at this point for all my children and myself.  I went
> to the county and asked for help for my drug addiction.  They
> assessed me and have tried to find me a bed in facility that would
> meet my needs.  It has been over 100 days I have been clean and free
> of drugs and I well aware of what this drug has done to my life and
> the life of my children.  I have attended NA meetings and now
> employed with school district in the lunch program.
>
>      His protective order against me was served September 25, 2003.  
> It was transferred from the fourth district court to the Juvenile
> court, which lead to a huge delay in the legal process.  I not only
> had major concerns for my children not knowing if he had quit using
> and his alcohol problems.  But he was leaving our two little girls
> in the care of his mother and father while he worked ten to twelve
> hour days.  His father is a convicted child molester and is
> registered with sex offenders.  He was charged tried and convicted
> of count 1 Forcible Sex Abuse of Female minor and Count 1Attempted
> Forcible Sex Abuse of Female Minor.  Very concerned for the well
> being of my two little girls I went to the Division of Child and
> Family services.  I told them everything from our drug use to what I
> was concerned about with his father.  They told me that there was
> nothing they could do for the children or me at this point.  They
> said that my father in law had completed his adult protection and
> parole and that he had no sanctions on him.  That when he finished
> his probation he was given a clean bill of health so to speak.  I
> left their office frustrated and not sure of what to do.  DCFS in
> turn opened a case against me for child endangerment.  They did an
> investigation and found that the children were in no danger when in
> my care even when I was using.  The drugs were always under lock and
> key and I still maintained a normal life.  I still took care of my
> responsibilities and the children.  Please know I know now there is
> no excuse for what I have done.  I take full responsibility for my
> actions and mistakes and I have taken the proper steps for my
> recovery and to gain some control and stability and structure for my
> family.
>
>      It has now been well over three months since I was served with
> the protective order, I was granted supervised visitation through
> facility that is affiliated with the courts. On January 7, 2004 the
> Juvenile courts found that I was no danger to my children and
> dismissed his protective order.  As it stands today neither one of
> us has been granted custody of these two little girls.  He refuses
> me any visitation as well as my whole entire family.  My mother and
> sisters have played a huge role in these girls life and now have had
> no contact with them over three months.  My two older children are
> confused to why this has happened, they are angry at the court
> system as well.  They don’t understand why it took so long for the
> right jurastication finally hear this case.  They both have told
> everyone who will listen of the verbal and emotional abuse we all
> endured when we lived with my husband.  They want their sister’s
> back in their lives.  I am very concerned for the well being of my
> two little girls.  They not only have had there lives ripped out
> from underneath them and there father refuses any contact with me or
> there siblings.  They are left in the care of a Convicted Child
> Molester and his wife.  And let it be known that the little girl he
> molested was a little girl him and his wife adopted when I believe
> she was between the ages of two and four. And now is an adult, It
> wasn’t until she was an adult that she came forward with these
> accusations.  She claimed that he molested her for many years before
> she finally left to live with her real mother.  My husband claims
> his father is never left alone with my girls and that his mother is
> always there.  Let it be know that his mother was there when he
> molested the other girl. It’s a chance I don’t want to take.  I
> believe that my girls are in grave danger and I can’t seem to find
> the right people to voice my concerns to.
>
>      Every agency I thought would listen to me has not.  DCFS told
> me there was nothing they could do until something happened to my
> girls.  My girls have told me that grandma and grandpa are mean to
> them and they cry that they do not want to be with them and there
> dad is always at work and that they are always with grandma and
> grandpa.  All of what they have said has been documented by the
> facility that conducted my supervised visits.  There father had only
> dropped them off for these visit approximatly four time the rest of
> the time in three months has been his mother and father.  Both of my
> husbands younger brothers have told the DCFS that these girls should
> not be left in the care of there parents and that there brother is
> no better parent for these children.  They have seen first hand his
> alcohol problem and drug use and what it does to him and the people
> around him.  They have seen the holes he has left in walls of their
> parent’s home and have had to pick him up from the bars.  He has
> came abusive to them and he has loaded the guns in fit of rage on
> more than one occasion.
>
>      I believe my husband needs help for his alcohol and drug
> addictions and also some kind of treatment for his anger.  He has
> not been held accountable for any of his actions.  He has not taken
> responsibility for his mistakes and denies he has any problems.  
> When there is long line of evidence to support my allegations. He
> continues to let his father care for our children  regardless to
> their safety.  In conclusion if there is any advice or any thing you
> can do for my children please contact me at 801-798-6015.  I
> appreciate your time and concern on this matter.                    
>                                                                      
>                 Sincerely,
>
>                                                                      
>                                 Jeena I Kester


nosonew

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OMG! ANYONE???? This girl NEEDS HELP NOW!
« Reply #1 on: Jan 13, 2004, 08:37:19 PM »
I am so sorry for your situation and am very proud of you for putting your family before your addiction.  You need an attorney, like yesterday! Anyway your family can help finance one?  This is very important and also very important you get a good one.  My best wishes to you and your kids.  I hope someone either replies or calls you with the help you need.....another mother, nosonew

p.s. it's best not to put your real name on these posts, ANYONE could read them!

Peanutsdad

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RE: OMG! ANYONE???? This girl NEEDS HELP NOW!
« Reply #2 on: Jan 14, 2004, 07:23:37 AM »
I really have no advise here. Neither parent are what would be called "good" by any measuring stick. Perhaps the BEST thing for these girls is foster care.

Both parents have had numerous arrests, have quit using in the past and gone back to using drugs.

Indigo Mom

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RE: OMG! ANYONE???? This girl NEEDS HELP NOW!
« Reply #3 on: Jan 14, 2004, 09:01:59 AM »
Admitting the problem is good, but not as good as facing it and kicking the habit to the curb forever.  Clearly, both parents have issues...issues which are dangerous for the kids involved.

What this poster should do (IMO) is check herself into the nearest clinic...inpatient...and stay there until she's clean with no desire to go back to using speed.  She needs to fix herself rather than piss and moan about what her husband is doing.  What's her defense going to be?  "your honor, he's on drugs and has the kids...I'm better because I'm using drugs without having the kids"...????

My husband was a speed dealer and hard core smoker of the stuff when he was 18.  For 3 years, his life was down in the pits because of his use.  To this day, he'll tell you that those 3 years were the worst of his life.  He was unable to stop selling or using...so he up and moved to Colorado, and has been clean ever since.  I called him at work about this, and he said no child should ever be in the care of a speed freak.  

I agree with Peanutsdad...the state should jump in and give these kids some form of "normal" life.  A life they're never going to get with 2 criminal, drug addicted parents.  

sweetnsad

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RE: BIG PROBLEMS
« Reply #4 on: Jan 14, 2004, 09:28:41 AM »
I'm afraid I have to agree with PD and Indigo Mom...these children aren't better off with either of you if there is drug use or alcohol or abuse involved...one is no better than the other and the only ones getting hurt are the children.


john5739

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RE: OMG! ANYONE???? This girl NEEDS HELP NOW!
« Reply #5 on: Jan 16, 2004, 12:33:35 AM »
Rather than point fingers about who is using drugs and not believing in second chances and recovery, I am going to focus on the most IMPORTANT aspect of your post.  These girls are more than likely being sexually abused by their grandfather.  That is the number one issue here.  If you are clean and sober right now, great!  Do anything you need to do to stay that way.  Just the mere fact that you are so concerned with what is happening to your girls shows that you've made some progress in recovering from the self-centered life of addiction.  You do need more help; get it where ever you can.  Have faith in yourself that you can overcome this and be a good mother.  Everyone makes mistakes don't compound them by believing that you can never rise above and then giving in to the hopelessness that starts the cycle of addiction all over again.  Foster care can sometimes be more of a nightmere than a mother with problems.  Keep looking for help from any angency, or person who can help get these kids out of danger.  Don't give up until someone listens!!  Stay clean and be as calm and professional as you can when dealing with agencies.  They are more likely to dismiss you and your case if you come across as having your own issues.  Your girls will be affected forever if they are being sexually abused, you have to do anything and everything you can to get them away from their grandfather even if it means having them go to another TRUSTED relative until you can take proper care of them.  Use legal aid and any other resource available.  Keep talking, calmly, and eventually someone will listen.  Leave no stone unturned.  You cared enough about your children to write this and ask for help, keep caring no matter how much you might feel like giving up sometimes.  

Peanutsdad

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RE: OMG! ANYONE???? This girl NEEDS HELP NOW!
« Reply #6 on: Jan 16, 2004, 12:52:26 AM »
Who said anything about pointing fingers?

Statisitcally crack/crank/meth users go back to using time and again. Dont think I know what Im talking about? 'fraid I do,, I see more addicts come thru my ER than I care to count. Personally, I get tired of seeing MY tax dollars spent to treat addicts. Now you want folks to advocate this mother getting the kids. Right,, sure thing,, lets take the kids from one addict, and give em to another,, sounds great to me.

If either of these two parents truly cared about these children, they would turn them over to the state and start the long process of getting well for themselves, and give those children a chance of salvaging their childhood.

Indigo Mom

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RE: I'm sorry...
« Reply #7 on: Jan 16, 2004, 10:53:12 AM »
But both parents are addicted to speed.  She's admitted it.  She's a drug user.  She can't possibly help her children until she helps herself.  If the father is a speed freak who won't get help, if the grandfather is a child molester, then she better step up to the plate and fix this mess.  If she truly loved her children...i mean REALLY loved her children, she wouldn't put a drug before their safety.

Now, you say they're "more than likely being sexually molested by their Grandfather".  OK...what would you do?  Hide in a cloud of drugs, or help them?  Continue using dope or clean yourself up so your kids could have a decent life?  

You said "Foster care can sometimes be more of a nightmere than a mother with problems."  Sure it can, but can it be more of a nightmare than 2 parents addicted to drugs and a sexual molester???????????

If she refuses to get help, and I hope she doesn't...then more than likely, the more she hoots and hollers, screaming for help, the more likely the state will step in and remove the kids from everyone.  Sometimes, that's the best thing.

Do you know what the childrens lifestyle will be like living with a drug addicted parent?  Not pretty.  Drug users tend to put their child at risk...ya ever heard of a "nice" drug user or dealer?  I sure haven't.  

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.  I value a childs life WAY more than any substance....

nosonew

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RE: BIG PROBLEMS
« Reply #8 on: Jan 16, 2004, 05:37:02 PM »
I agree she should check herself into rehab, but I am very concerned about the possibility of sexual abuse by the grandfather at this point as well.  I have a friend from work that grew up in foster homes, she wouldn't wish it on her worst enemy, so....what is best?  I vote for a mother that loves her kids, KNOWS she has a problem and is working hard to correct it.  

I'd take the child in myself if it would help.  At least we would all know she would be safe.  

john5739

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RE: OMG! ANYONE???? This girl NEEDS HELP NOW!
« Reply #9 on: Jan 16, 2004, 11:59:45 PM »
I like to think that not all people are alike and that everyone has the capacity for change if they truly desire it.  My focus was on this mother trying to help her children, which is why she posted.  She wasn't looking for people to tell her that she is a hopeless case.  I'm sure her children would benefit greatly from her being encouraged to stay sober rather than having her be told she's a hopeless case.

john5739

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RE: I'm sorry...
« Reply #10 on: Jan 17, 2004, 12:08:44 AM »
My mother was an alcoholic and a drug abuser, so I do know what their life style will be like with a drug addict.  I would have chosen my mother any day over being molested.  Have you ever talked to people who have been through the foster care system?  Many foster families have just as many, if not worse problems than the bio-parents.

This mother is in a viscious cycle.  If she could get into a program and get some help she may be able to get her children back and that in and of itself might help her stay sober rather than resort to drugs due to hopelessness.

Indigo Mom

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RE: I'm sorry...
« Reply #11 on: Jan 17, 2004, 07:54:09 AM »
-----My mother was an alcoholic and a drug abuser, so I do know what their life style will be like with a drug addict. -----

I'm VERY sorry for this...you must have had a scary childhood.  I wouldn't wish that on anyone.  My son went through 6 years of Hell with a cocaine and then crack addict.  I've seen what it did to my child and is still doing to my child.  He has some demons inside of him, this I know.

-----I would have chosen my mother any day over being molested. -----

I would have chosen the safety of someone elses arms over both of those.

-----Have you ever talked to people who have been through the foster care system? Many foster families have just as many, if not worse problems than the bio-parents.-----

Yes, I have.  I've also read the Dave Pelzer series of books about his childhood.  I know there are foster families who are brutal, but there are MANY who aren't.  You can't knock foster care because of a few problems when there are 3 HUGE ones in the kids families right now.  2 drug addicts and a possible child molester.  Plus, if the mother was truly serious about cleaning up, they wouldn't be in the "system" too long, would they?

-----This mother is in a viscious cycle. If she could get into a program and get some help she may be able to get her children back and that in and of itself might help her stay sober rather than resort to drugs due to hopelessness.-----

I agree...and that's what I said in my first post.  However, I don't believe people resort to drugs due to "hopelessness".  







Indigo Mom

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RE: OMG! ANYONE???? This girl NEEDS HELP NOW!
« Reply #12 on: Jan 17, 2004, 08:00:47 AM »
-----I like to think that not all people are alike and that everyone has the capacity for change if they truly desire it. -----

"if they truly desire it".  I agree.  Going after the drug addicted father and possibly child molesting grandfather is not "truly desiring change" unless she's willing to clean up her own act first.  

-----My focus was on this mother trying to help her children, which is why she posted. She wasn't looking for people to tell her that she is a hopeless case. -----

Everyone who posted was trying to help her.  You HAVE to face the facts...she's a speed user.  First things first?  Seek help.  Read my first post....I said she should check herself into the nearest inpatient clinic.  You can 't help her get her children unless you help her seek help.  What's wrong with telling her to clean up and remain clean?

-----I'm sure her children would benefit greatly from her being encouraged to stay sober rather than having her be told she's a hopeless case. -----

No one said she's hopeless.  Both peanutsdad and myself have suggested she get help for her problems...enabling an addict is doing no good.  Straight up telling them what they need to do FOR their children is good.  





Peanutsdad

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RE: I'm sorry...
« Reply #13 on: Jan 17, 2004, 11:31:25 AM »
>My mother was an alcoholic and a drug abuser, so I do know
>what their life style will be like with a drug addict.  I
>would have chosen my mother any day over being molested.

Bully for you. I would prefer children be safe any day, and whether its a child molester, or a drug addict, they aint safe.



  Have
>you ever talked to people who have been through the foster
>care system?  Many foster families have just as many, if not
>worse problems than the bio-parents.

I've spoken to many foster parents, in fact, I KNOW many. Where are you getting your information concerning foster families? The local fiction bookstore? As a matter of fact, I testified for a foster couple to obtain custody of 2 children they adopted from crack addict families. Were these contested? yup,, the state removed the children for their own safety.
>
>This mother is in a viscious cycle.  If she could get into a
>program and get some help she may be able to get her children
>back and that in and of itself might help her stay sober
>rather than resort to drugs due to hopelessness.

This is the kind of simpering pandering BS that has placed children back into unsafe homes time and again. Tell you what, why dont YOU take this mother into YOUR home and help rehab her. After you've had everything of value stolen and pawned, come back and tell us how humanitarian you feel. ;)

john5739

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RE: I'm sorry...
« Reply #14 on: Jan 17, 2004, 12:20:14 PM »
Did the comment "bully for you" help to alleviate any of that anger you are experiencing?  Was it really necessary?

We live in different states.  The foster care system is a state and county based system, so it will not be the same everywhere.  In my state the foster care system is a wreck.  

Obviously, you've had a lot of experiences in life and have a lot to offer on these boards, but it might serve people better if you realized that there is more than one way to think of everything.  You don't have to become angry and demeaning when someone doesn't agree with you 100%.  Maybe I too have something to offer here and I don't think you need to go on the attack when I don't agree with everything you write.

The type of anger you display is what will drive people away from father's rights causes.  Fifty-something percent of the world's population is women, don't you think it might be more beneficial to men who are being treated unfairly by the courts to have some of these women advocating along side of you?

Peanutsdad

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RE: I'm sorry...
« Reply #15 on: Jan 17, 2004, 12:37:30 PM »
LOL,  anger? Not one bit . More like exacerbation at another head in the clouds liberal. I dont know what state you are in, but if the foster system there is worse than leaving children with addicts and child molesters it certainly isnt a state I have any desire to visit nor stay in.

Please tell us what horrible state this is so we all can avoid it like the plague. Consider it a public service to help us all on that ;)

As far as anyone standing by my side advocating my rights as a parent or any other parent for that matter. My stance is and always has been, equal access for fit parents. The rights of a child to be raised equally by same.
Where I get off the bus is unfit parents or parents who place their children in danger.

I never asked you to agree with me, I stated my opinion, as did you. I can offer a mountain of evidense to support my opinion, can you?

I am certainly glad to know that my actions and posts will result in driving people away from fathers rights,, man,, what a burden, what an awesome power I must have. Gee, thanx, you made my day ;)

Peanutsdad

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RE: I'm sorry...
« Reply #16 on: Jan 17, 2004, 12:46:30 PM »
Oh, btw John,

If we are done here, perhaps we can both get to the business of helping posters find answers.

john5739

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RE: I'm sorry...
« Reply #17 on: Jan 17, 2004, 01:28:49 PM »
Did it ever occur to you that no one has all of the answers?  Maybe some "answers" even harm people?


"BTW," now that's an adult comment!  

I feel for anyone who walks into the ER where you work and gets this kind of treatment due to your judgemental attitudes.  Please tell me you're not directly involved with patient treatment?


Peanutsdad

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RE: I'm sorry...
« Reply #18 on: Jan 17, 2004, 01:36:13 PM »
>Did it ever occur to you that no one has all of the answers?
>Maybe some "answers" even harm people?

Yup, it occurs to me each time I see a liberal post .
>
>
>"BTW," now that's an adult comment!  

huh? Ok, sue me for using internet shorthand.
>
>I feel for anyone who walks into the ER where you work and
>gets this kind of treatment due to your judgemental attitudes.
> Please tell me you're not directly involved with patient
>treatment?

Ok, so now I provide lousy care because I believe children shouldnt go to drug addicts,,, go figure.
What I find interesting, is you never answered the question of why these kids should stay with drug addicts instead of a foster family. Nor did you reveal the state you are from where the foster system is worse than leaving children with addicts and child molesters.
>
>

Peanutsdad

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RE: I'm sorry...
« Reply #19 on: Jan 17, 2004, 01:56:22 PM »
Just as a side note here John,, have you ever seen a crack baby?? Have you ever held them while they shake and tremor and cry inconsolably?

Have you ever seen a baby go thru withdrawal from heroin? How about a kid born with FAS? (Fetal alcohol syndrome). It isnt pretty. Our hospital delivers over 16000 babies a year and approximately 20% are born drug addicted or messed up from the drug and alcohol abuse.


Not long ago, I posted a story about a junkie. He died due to his addiction,, BUT, I had quite a bit of respect for him. Simply because he CHOSE to do the right thing concerning his children BECAUSE of his addiction.

sweetnsad

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From reading the above posts...
« Reply #20 on: Jan 17, 2004, 02:23:12 PM »
I am going to give my opinion....I'm only 29, but I'm old enough to know that parents should always do what's best for their children...so, saying that, I have to agree with Peanutsdad on this one...

How can ANY parent think that they are better than the other, when both are drug addicts or users?  And, how can anyone think that placing children with drug addict parents is a better idea than foster care???  It doesn't make any sense....if MY children were in that situation, I would want them to be with a family that could give them a sense of security and warmth, not constant fear of me or my husband because we couldn't keep our heads on straight...that's NO life for any child, I don't care how much the parents love them...if you love them enough, you will do what's right for them...

As for the attacks on PD's conduct at work and so forth, I don't think that was necessary...the man makes a living saving lives, not destroying them, so why would his views on this issue be any different than what he does everyday??  

EVERYONE is entitled to their honest opinions, no matter how much someone else might not like them...it's no reason to attack one's character.

kiddosmom

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RE: I'm sorry...
« Reply #21 on: Jan 17, 2004, 02:29:38 PM »
I have had experience caring for a "crack baby" and so has peanutsdad.
My sister is an extreme 'Hard core Drug Addict' that has not stopped her from bearing 3 children addicted to the drugs.
It has also not stopped her family from having to take care of those babies because she was to busy wanting the next needle. To this day most of our family will have nothing to do with her because SHE has alianated (sp?) all of us.

Peanutsdad

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RE: From reading the above posts...
« Reply #22 on: Jan 17, 2004, 02:41:41 PM »
Sweetnsad,

Where John and I differ here is a common ground of dispute for liberals and conservatives. One believes all can be saved or turned around, the other knows they cant all be saved. Unfortunately, the liberals also want all of us to PAY for saving everyone.

You are right about one thing tho, in medicine we will sacrifice diseased or damaged tissue or limbs to save the healthy tissue. Its the same with these addicted parents and children.  Excise the diseased to save the healthy.

Besides, the implications of johns post would suggest I am guilty of criminal behavior in my work. Nothing could be further from the truth. Hence, I ignore it.

sweetnsad

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RE: From reading the above posts...
« Reply #23 on: Jan 17, 2004, 02:54:26 PM »
I understand that PD...I really do..it just makes me mad to think that there are people out there that don't care enough about children to make decent choices concerning them.

Davy

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John5739 and PD are both right !!
« Reply #24 on: Jan 17, 2004, 02:56:50 PM »
More later..gotta run.  Tx foster care is exceptional because it is not government controlled/operated and they substantially evaluate perspective parents.  In the other states (IL and FL) the foster care is very much a government agency and a huge disaster for children even to the point that DCF will even use the foster care system as leverage against drug addicts (and the family) to place children where they desire (to make the most money).  It is really not all that complicated !

PD sees the results of government social programs that fail miserably (on purpose) otherwise I firmly believe John5739 is correct and have advised my own drug addicted daughter as such but she has been govermentized ...... and even if she wanted to follow she can't ...like I said ...more later ...gotta run.

john5739

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RE: From reading the above posts...
« Reply #25 on: Jan 17, 2004, 03:35:21 PM »
You obviously did not fully read my original post, because I did not advocate giving children to drug addicted parents who are in the throws of using.  I merely said that if there is a choice between drug addiction and sexual abuse I would take drug addiction.  The sexual abuse is direct abuse of a child.

I apologized to Peanutsdad for the comment about his work on another post, but I should have done it here first.  As you can probably tell, I mistakenly thought he wrote something he did not.  My fault and my fault for wording my anger inappropriately.  I do not believe that he is guilty of criminal conduct.

I will say however, that I would not want to be cared for in an ER by someone who would judge me so harshly if I had a social problem and presented for care.  When you feel so passionately about a subject like this it is very difficult to separate your emotions from your work.  When someone walks into an ER first impressions can be very important and no one can ever know completely someone's circumstances.

By the way I'm not a liberal.

john5739

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RE: From reading the above posts...
« Reply #26 on: Jan 17, 2004, 03:36:29 PM »
Aren't you personally attacking me now?  Is it fair for you to say that I don't care about children?  Two wrongs will never make a right.

john5739

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RE: I'm sorry...
« Reply #27 on: Jan 17, 2004, 03:47:32 PM »
I have a great deal of respect for what you've experienced and what you have witnessed in your job, but you are angry (righfully so) and that is clouding the issue. The subject is not whether or not parents who are addicted are good parents.  We agree that they need to be clean and sober to be good parents, the issue was in regard to sexual abuse vs drug abuse.  Sexually abused children are every bit as messed up as children born to drug addicts.

I don't think the original poster believed that at present she was the best option for the children and I don't think she was advocating that she be awarded full, unsupervised custody, she wanted to prevent her children from being sexually molested by a known sex offender.  I merely advocated for her to get help and most of all get the kids away from a child molester.

BTW(lol), I'm not a liberal.

sweetnsad

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RE: From reading the above posts...
« Reply #28 on: Jan 17, 2004, 04:57:08 PM »
No, John, I'm not personally attacking you...and I'm sorry if it appeared I was...I was merely making a comment in general.

Indigo Mom

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RE: Ok....
« Reply #29 on: Jan 18, 2004, 11:10:09 AM »
She said this...

-----His father is a convicted child molester and is
> registered with sex offenders. He was charged tried and convicted
> of count 1 Forcible Sex Abuse of Female minor and Count 1Attempted
> Forcible Sex Abuse of Female Minor. -----

So...we are assuming that this man has been charged and convicted with this...but do we "really" know if he was?  Just as the father in this situation...she claims he's a drug user as well.

All we "really" know is that she's a drug user with a pretty large criminal history, she admitted that.  What IF the father isn't using drugs, what IF the grandfather isn't a sex offender?  What IF the only "bad guy" in this whole situation is the mother?????

After all...people do and say whatever they think other people will buy into to further their own case.  Don't you find it "odd" that this convicted child molester was given a "clean bill of health" and is allowed around children?  Don't you find it "odd" that no one will help this woman?  Don't you find it "odd" that DCFS opened a child endangerment case against her...and only her?  Chances are, she's the only one putting her children at risk.

While I KNOW bad things happen to good people (and in this situation, I use the term "good" losely)...but come on!  No one is going after the father or grandfather...does that make ANY sense to you?  Could it be that the story we read isn't quite the "whole" story?  The original poster, who sounded so desperate for help hasn't even bothered coming back here.  That says alot....

What am I getting at?  You're going bonkers for this drug addict...all the while forgetting that there are 2 innocent children that "might" be in better hands for the time being.  Seems a whole bunch of accusations came flying out of her....yet no explanations have been offered for anything.  Putting "real" names into her post make it "seem" real...doesn't it?

And IF the grandfather is a child molester, and IF the father is a drug addict and alcoholic...wouldn't she be in a better position to fight them/protect her kids when she's clean as a whistle?






Alatheia

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RE: Ok....
« Reply #31 on: Jan 18, 2004, 02:20:27 PM »
I just shot out that address. If there are any questions about the guilt of the grandfather you can veiw them there.
    I am the sister of the original poster, I have put off responding to this for numerous reasons. The main one being that her letter was posted here by accident and does not fully detail the situation. the fact of the matter is Jeena is concerned about the situation of her children being left in the care of a convicted child molester while their father is at work. I do not participate in forums because I feel they are similar to day time talk shows, everyone has an opinion as opposed to a solution. However after reading the replies to her post I am seeing how this seems to those who are outside of the mess. As I said the whole picture has not come to light. the original letter was sent to every State agency, attorney, child advocate, B.A.C.A in the hopes that someone might come forward with at the very least the ability to mediate for the welfare of the children.
I am the oldest of 5 sisters and one brother. Jeena being the second to youngest. She is the second sister to become addicted to Methamphetamine. The first sister became addicted in 1997 and is just now going through some intensive counseling, she completed 2 months of inpatient, one month of that was forced on her through the county jail, The second month was in lue of spending another month in jail. She has been successful in this treatment program and is now in out patient treatment. There is more to this than staying sober, You also need the tools to know what triggers the addictive behavior. I beleive the 1 sister has learned this. I beleive that Jeena is sober but I do not beleive she is educated enough about the addicive personality and cycle she is in. She has submitted to urine tests, voluntarily been assessed by the State of Utah she has taken their reccomendations that she enter treatment. She is on a waiting list to enter a fairly new inpatient rehab that not only focuses on the parent but their children as well, they enter into the facility with their drug addicted mothers and all are treated as a family.
  I do think that she is not pressing forward with this because she feels a perverse guilt about leaving the two youngest children behind.
   She was very instrumental in the first sisters' childrens lives she and I both screamed as loud as we could about the children and the danger they were in. She had two daughters, The oldest was placed in foster care and later adopted by the foster parents. That was two years ago. The foster parents became very destructive in the oldest daughters life. She became very involved with the church she got a job, she is due to graduate high school this spring and has earned all of her required credits to do this so basically she has free time at school right now. She has earned to scgholarshipe to attend a University. The foster parents began to punish her for things such as using the phone without permission by grounding her from church. The second incident came when the adoptive mother wanted her to "call in sick" to work, When she questioned the validity of skipping work to help make cakes at home she was forced to quit her job. She lied about drying a blanket and was put into another foster home while the adoptive family went on vacation. When the foster family moved to adopt this child I felt as though it would be a good thing . When she started running here for advice I became gravely concerned about this foster family.  What any of us would give to have our teens desire to go to church and work? But the biggest issue was the fact that this child had been bounced from family member to family member, foster home to foster home state agency to state agency. And to finally receive the blessing of a family that was normal tranquil and loved her enough to adopt her and then to be told that if she broke the rules she would be sent to a foster home, In a childs mind that absoluteley underminded the entire though of being loved by people that were willing to take on the role of biological parents. At this very time the adoptive mother has told her she needs to leave the family because she was onery on Christmas morning. She left the home she is 4 months away from her 18th birthday. Thank God her biological mother is actually clean and sober for the first time in 7 years. I have added this lil tid bit because of the argument going on about foster care. Also the fact that Jeena was educated on the effects of meth addicted parents caring for their children and a year ago she would have been as adament about removing the children from the situation. I personally am still of that opinion. Children have no buisness being in a home where any drug is abused but especially methamphetamine. I am still on speaking terms with the father and feel the same about him that I do Jeena, both need to go through some type of treatment, The father cannot offer the same proof that he is doing whatever possible to avoid using the drugs again. One thing I have learned over the years is the number one mistake these people make is thinking they are in control. they are not they beleive they can use and control what is happening aroung them. Especially meth they have these grandiouse ideas that they ARE in control. They are not! i have absoluteley NO sympathy for 'tweekers' I beleive they have no right to have children in their custody and I will NEVER waiver on that. We do have some laws in place that are nothing more than good intentions, I have become friends with many members of lawe enforcment over the years and they do verything they can to enforce the laws that are in place to protect these children. But as they often tell me they lock em up, they go to court the next day and are released and right back to their habit and in most cases such as with the other sister it takes years and years to actually get the children in a place where they are safe and ok. But right now at this point in time I have a little sister who became addicted with her husband to methamphetamine, Both of whom were very hands on parents as a matter of fact that was one of the things that endeared Jeena to him. They play "night games" with their children, they roller blade, bike, play tag, jump on the trampoling and they enjoyed this just as much as the children. The husband is a good father with a drinking and drug problem follow your buddies type person. Jeena is a good mother who let her guard down and actually I beleive with all of my heart that this addictive behavior began with legally perscribed drugs. We all know that using drugs legal or otherwise will wear down our resolve. Jeena is of the personality that I am sure she thought using meth once was something she could control, She being as strong and bold as she is never assumed that she could possibly become addicted after one time use. Well she did, He did and now we have two babies who are caught in the aftermath of this mess. The idea that my lil neices are being left in the care of a child molester consumes me  day and night. It is like trying to choose between the lesser  of two evils trying to find a situation for these lil people that keeps them safe and gives them some kind of normal life. I beleive that is simply what Jeena was trying to acheive through her post and that is what I am asking now. Small children need their mothers and their fathers. The court system has not been alot of help and I am positive that they are denying the rights of the children at this point. A couple of things I would like to clear up are #1 Jeena has not had numerous arrests, She was arrested one time and the children were placed in the care of their father at that point. Once an addict always an addict, but she is a sober addict at this time. The father does have a drinking problem adn I cannot honestly say I have seen hiim more than three times without a beer in his hand. Prior to the meth being introduced into this family unit there were many altercations that became physical, Jeena honestly sought anyone or anything that might appease her husband and hold her marriage together. I sometimes feel as though she got to the point where she gave up and joined in. But still the question remains,,, What can we do for the children right now? we have contacted everyone we think may listen and help these little girls. How do we get to someone who can actually help them? Jeena is more than willing to risk that the girls may end up in foster care and has stated numerous times she knows they have a good dad, although the drinking rages are always going to be a concern for her, She simply does not want them to be left in the care of a child molester.

sweetnsad

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Just a suggestion...
« Reply #32 on: Jan 18, 2004, 02:27:30 PM »
Please, please post the above poster again, but divide it up into paragraphs....it is so hard to read when you type like that and no one will actually read it...so please repost it and make it easier for us to understand...
:-)

Alatheia

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RE: Just a suggestion...
« Reply #33 on: Jan 18, 2004, 02:45:25 PM »
This is an up to God situation, I am not going to retype it, If someone is out there that really cares about our family and wants to help they will read it. But thank you. This is my first using forums and probably my last.

john5739

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RE: Ok....
« Reply #34 on: Jan 18, 2004, 03:04:37 PM »
The fact is you, me nor anyone else will ever know the full truth about anyone's story.  I did not go "bonkers for a drug addict"  I went bonkers over the possible situation that these children were in and it has become obvious to me that no one is getting at the real message of what I wrote and only wants to bash this woman for her problems which does not help anyone, especially the children.  If you want to believe that the men are just fine and she is an evil lying woman than I don't wish to persuade you otherwise.  My intention was to offer her some support so she could assist her children if they are in need of help.  

Please know and believe that there are MANY examples out there of people being mistreated by the system when they are trying to do the right thing.  It happens everyday to men and women everywhere.

Maybe this woman isn't coming back to this site because she's been put down so much on these postings that she's decided it's not worth it just to feel bad, or maybe she doesn't have access to a computer.  

john5739

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RE: Just a suggestion...
« Reply #35 on: Jan 18, 2004, 03:14:44 PM »
I hope, somehow, someway your sister and her children get the help and consideration they deserve.  Try not to let the opinions of anyone deter you from looking on this forum.  There are many people here who do offer valuable info even if their opinions can be disturbing, just ignore that part.  Post on your state board so that the info you find is relative.  You never know someone with a nasty opinion just might have some info that helps.  I almost gave up in my situation and just when I reached that point I had an almost miraculous experience.  You never know when things can turn around.

Peanutsdad

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RE: Ok....
« Reply #36 on: Jan 18, 2004, 04:28:37 PM »
>The fact is you, me nor anyone else will ever know the full
>truth about anyone's story.  I did not go "bonkers for a drug
>addict"  I went bonkers over the possible situation that these
>children were in and it has become obvious to me that no one
>is getting at the real message of what I wrote and only wants
>to bash this woman for her problems which does not help
>anyone, especially the children.  If you want to believe that
>the men are just fine and she is an evil lying woman than I
>don't wish to persuade you otherwise.  My intention was to
>offer her some support so she could assist her children if
>they are in need of help.  


I believe that is what I said over and over and over. Help the kids. Get them away from all invloved in this mess. They deserve better.
>
>Please know and believe that there are MANY examples out there
>of people being mistreated by the system when they are trying
>to do the right thing.  It happens everyday to men and women
>everywhere.

Yup, I agree entirely, there are people who get eaten alive by the system every day, time and again.
>
>Maybe this woman isn't coming back to this site because she's
>been put down so much on these postings that she's decided
>it's not worth it just to feel bad, or maybe she doesn't have
>access to a computer.  

Personally, I could care less, my only concern, is the kids. I have already offered the best advise there. They dont need to be with a drug addict nor a child molester.  The poster claims bm is clean, the state claims grand dad is clean,, its a push,, want your kids in either persons hands?

wendl

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RE: BIG PROBLEMS
« Reply #37 on: Jan 19, 2004, 10:02:47 AM »
I am sorry to hear you are going thru this. Both you and your husband have made some big mistakes. I am glad you are seaking the help you need.

I would find a good attorney asap. Also request that randum drug testing be done on both you and your husband.  

Keep clean, keep documenting. Get a letter from your drug treatment program of how you did during treatment and how you are doing now.

Also request a restraining order on this sex offender for the safety of your girls.

I wish you all the luck


charm910

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RE: BIG PROBLEMS
« Reply #39 on: Jan 24, 2004, 11:53:57 PM »
I'm sorry, it's a bit late.

With all the responses and discussion, no one mentioned the obvious answer, someone, maybe the sister, applies for temporary custody of the girls.  If they are that concerned, then it's a "family" problem, and custody of the children is all part of the family dynamics.

Recovery treatment is also a "family" problem and should be treated as such, including grandparents, children, brothers and sisters, etc.

It sounds as if this whole extended family needs to work together to help all of its' generations futures.




rini

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RE: YIKES
« Reply #40 on: Jan 28, 2004, 05:36:38 PM »
boy most times your posts are insiteful and on the money but in this case you are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy off.


You can recover from drug addiction and someday be a whole person.
you will always be an addict but God willing not a user.

now i must admit i have little to no knowledge of methamphetamine but the other i do have personal knowledge of.  i have read that the recovery time is much longer for this drug buttttttttttt  

the poster did say that she was sober for over 3 months and that is worth giving her some benefit of the doubt and possibly some encouragement for getting that far instead of the opposite.


comparing the disease of addiction to life with a child molester/pedofile that was found guilty a long time ago and for some strange reason the state does not consider a danger any more possibly because of the length of time (there is a statute of limitations on criminal prosecution of molestation)  If I had to hazzard a guess this could be a part of the story on the gf.

if those children are molested while in his care they will never fully recover as a victim myself i am well aware of the mark that type of abuse leaves.

there just is no room for comparisons here.  

you are correct in that the only option is placement for the children until one or both of the parents are clean and sober. for whatever time requirements for the drug of choice that gives them a good chance of sobriety...

I really think that some of the responses to this post were more than harsh actually one or two bordering absolutely offensive in my opinion..to someone that was actually trying to recover and asking for help

but i see more and more of that kind of thing that I used to only find on the other site that we both post on.  

None of us can know all the facts of any situation but all of us can attempt to be supportive and keep harsh comments to ourselves and i am not necessarily refering to (whomever the post i answered under belongs to Peanuts dad i think)    here hon i would have to go over all the posts and im not sure who wrote what but some of them would have been very upsetting to me had i been asking for help and gotten them for a response especialy when i had been doing my best to change and make myself into the mom that my kids deserve.

 Let you who has no faults cast the first stone!!!!!   or something like that.

I have just been seeing a whole lot of this on here lately and it really detracts from the site that i have been coming to for over 3 years.  
and what the purpose of this site actually is.


and to the poster if you actually come back and read any of this and make it this far  here is my email if you need some one to talk to
riniinusa@netscape.net


Ill be praying for you and your children.  Good luck with staying sober!

 rini

Peanutsdad

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RE: YIKES
« Reply #41 on: Jan 29, 2004, 02:49:42 AM »
>boy most times your posts are insiteful and on the money but
>in this case you are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy off.

Be that as it may. I still stand by my affirmation that the kids in this story deserve to be protected from both parents and the grandparent.


>
>
>You can recover from drug addiction and someday be a whole
>person.
>you will always be an addict but God willing not a user.

That too is true rini, I never disputed this. The two parents in this post have been clean before, and gone back to using numerous times, with arrests for drugs or alcohol. I still feel neither is fit as a parent, and with that, I still stand by removing the children until such a time as one parent or the other can show thier act is cleaned up.


>
>now i must admit i have little to no knowledge of
>methamphetamine but the other i do have personal knowledge of.
> i have read that the recovery time is much longer for this
>drug buttttttttttt  
>
>the poster did say that she was sober for over 3 months and
>that is worth giving her some benefit of the doubt and
>possibly some encouragement for getting that far instead of
>the opposite.
>


I understand that entirely. I also do not sugarcoat. I'll tell you exactly what I think is best. She has already abused benefit of doubt by admitting to the on again and off again use of drugs.


>
>comparing the disease of addiction to life with a child
>molester/pedofile that was found guilty a long time ago and
>for some strange reason the state does not consider a danger
>any more possibly because of the length of time (there is a
>statute of limitations on criminal prosecution of molestation)
> If I had to hazzard a guess this could be a part of the story
>on the gf.
>
>if those children are molested while in his care they will
>never fully recover as a victim myself i am well aware of the
>mark that type of abuse leaves.
>
>there just is no room for comparisons here.  
>
>you are correct in that the only option is placement for the
>children until one or both of the parents are clean and sober.
>for whatever time requirements for the drug of choice that
>gives them a good chance of sobriety...


That is what I've been saying all along rini. Protect the children FIRST, then let the parents figure out how to get their heads out of their butts.


>



>I really think that some of the responses to this post were
>more than harsh actually one or two bordering absolutely
>offensive in my opinion..to someone that was actually trying
>to recover and asking for help
>
>but i see more and more of that kind of thing that I used to
>only find on the other site that we both post on.  
>
>None of us can know all the facts of any situation but all of
>us can attempt to be supportive and keep harsh comments to
>ourselves and i am not necessarily refering to (whomever the
>post i answered under belongs to Peanuts dad i think)    here
>hon i would have to go over all the posts and im not sure who
>wrote what but some of them would have been very upsetting to
>me had i been asking for help and gotten them for a response
>especialy when i had been doing my best to change and make
>myself into the mom that my kids deserve.


In a case like this, I could care less how the two parents feel. With two drug addicted parents, there can be no presumption of either being fit,, want respect from me for them,, they have to earn it.
I do see the costs to families and children by these kind of parents,, every day.  I also see what these kind of parents cost the rest of us. You will never ever see me be a proponent of a drug addict gaining custody of a child. Not unless that addict can prove they have been clean over a year, have turned their life around, no longer associate with drug dealers, nor users, have moved out of the environment and become a productive member of society.


>
> Let you who has no faults cast the first stone!!!!!   or
>something like that.

In that case, all of us should cease and desist posting immediately. the last perfect person,, got nailed to a cross for his trouble.


>
>I have just been seeing a whole lot of this on here lately and
>it really detracts from the site that i have been coming to
>for over 3 years.  
>and what the purpose of this site actually is.
>
>

From my understanding, this site exists to help provide resources for NCP's.  It promotes shared parenting with the presumption of both fit parents being equal in parenting.  Notice fit??  


>and to the poster if you actually come back and read any of
>this and make it this far  here is my email if you need some
>one to talk to
>riniinusa@netscape.net


Now rini, Im not flaming you, nor being anything but honest. I give advise to NCP's across all walks of life, I give advise to CP's from all walks of life. Any fit parent can pretty much ask me for anything.

But you let a child molester or a addict ask me for anything,, They'll not recieve a thing. While I might love to believe the best of all, reality imposes itself quite well.  I would hope the addict does read all this. In fact, I hope it makes her good and mad,, that would show me she hasnt completely lost her own self respect and has a better chance of getting clean.
>
>
>Ill be praying for you and your children.  Good luck with
>staying sober!
>
> rini

Indigo Mom

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RE: rini.....
« Reply #42 on: Jan 29, 2004, 09:36:54 AM »
Rini...I absolutely understand where you're coming from.  You have personal knowledge of sexual molestation, but none when it comes to drug abuse.

I promise you...if you research this particular drug, you will come to the same conclusion as me...neither is fit or proper to handle a sack of pinto beans...let alone a child.

I am the complete opposite of you.  I've no personal knowledge of molestation, but I've seen, first hand, what drug abuse does to a child.  I HAVE a child that was in the hands of a drug addict...and trust me when I say...it is UGLY!!!!!  (i can safely say, monster didn't sexually abuse my child)

You said "if those children are molested while in his care they will never fully recover as a victim myself i am well aware of the mark that type of abuse leaves. "

My response to that?  Come visit my house one day.  I give you permission to view my childs arms, legs, back, hands, stomach, butt, feet, and face...you can view the scars he has received from most BRUTAL attacks.  You can also view his mouth.  In his mouth, you will notice NOT ONE tooth in "good" condition.  My son has had MAJOR work done on EVERY tooth in his mouth (the ones that haven't been knocked out) due to years of neglect.  You can view pictures of him from a few years ago, sickly looking, and see his healthy weight gain since being away from drugs. Food?  Screw feeding this kid, monster wanted drugs!!! You can also "observe" him, his behavior...and you will see, after a short time, that my son will NEVER fully recover as a victim of a drug addicted "person in charge".  

So, I have a similar response to yours.  Squish both of our posts together, yours with the effects of sexual molestation, mine with the effects of a drug addicted monster, and you will come to the same conclusion as I...children do not DESERVE to be in either home.  Toss in  the fact that peanut has more than likely seen children from BOTH situations, and we all believe the same thing.  

oh, and before I forget...one of the most noticable things about people addicted to drugs?  They couldn't tell the truth to save their lives...what you hear is their "version" of "their" truth...which, BTW...is not anywhere close to our reality.  

I will never come close to tolerating a drug addicted parent...



http://www.drug-effects.com/crystal-meth-effects.htm

 

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