Mom's denial of contact to dad

[blh1013]

I'm the stepmom (been in th epic 4 years); my husband and I moved 18  months ago to the area (6 houses from mom) to increase visitation-- we asked for week to week, but was denied.....judge ordered during school year we have every other Fri-Sun, leave our house for school, to Mom's Monday night, return to us Tues after school and leave again for Mom's on thurs AM. Holidays are also specified, but summer visitation is not mentioned. Before moving, mom and dad did the week to week (exchange on Fridays)....as soon as we moved here, she started with her games.

last summer, we were forbidden from seeing and speaking to the son (now 12 1/2) from June 4th until Sept 12th. We filed contempt papers for denial of visitation, but when we went to court in Sept., after my hsuband testified, she requested a postponement because she wasn't ready. The date has never been rescheduled.

In dec. '08, the mom's older son (my stepson's older half brother) moved back into the home after serving 'juvenile jail time' for sexually abusing the stepson (was gone for 4 yrs). at this time, my stepson's behavior went downward spiral....was frequently reprimanded for sexual misconduct (inappropriate talking, putting dolls in sexual positions, writing supposed pornographic stories, and suspended for 2 days in june for grabbing the genitals of another boy). We have a transcript from our last court hearing when we didn't want my stepson living with his older brother (was still incarcerated at the time), and mom testified to the same- she didn't think th etwo could live together or be left alone without possible troouble- we still have the transcript.

again, this summer mom is denying all contact- we last saw/spoke to the child on june 25th. we have called repeatedly and since- mom's home number is disconnected; her email adress we have rejects our emails, the toll facility she works at, when called, says she doesn't work there anymore (it seems she transferred). when we went to the house last friday to pick up my stepson, or at least see/speak to him, the older brother became verbally threatening and libelous, and mom refused to answer the door. we called the police, who once again said they couldn't do anything, we needed to return to court.

we are in the process of filing another contempt round on her for this. mom never abides by the decree (turns out she cancels dr.'s appts we make, and when th echild was seen in the er in january, we only found out when we requested her pediatrician's medical records.) now with having no alternate means of contact other than home adress and cell phone (no responses) we don't know what to do.

we'd like to hope that the judge may see her games and give us custody. on the court form, it gives a space to name other cases we know of to support of wishes (of mom keeping us in the dark, interference of custody, etc.) and hoping if anyone knows of any, or any other suggestions. I have a few letters we've typed that if anyone would like to read and give suggests, or any ideas of what we can do. I currently keep the  diary (have three 3" binders of nothing but court papers and evidnce) but we can't hire another attorney, and make to much to qualify for reduced rates or free legal services, so we have ot do this all on our own.

Any help to fix our situation?
Please feel free to contact me at [email protected]
Brandee

[ocean]

File a police report EVERY time you are supposed to have child. I would go by what you do for school since summer was never addressed. (Summer was NEVER addressed in ANY past papers, first set??? Go back and look, usually it is there and then if things get changed, they only change that and they you go back to the old papers for the rest).

Take the police report (demand the police right something up...ours puts in on a little slip but it proved that we were there for pick-up and refused) and file contempt...At contempt ask for makeup time and summer to be spelled out with dates and times of exchanges.

Send her a certified letter with signature stating that you will be picking up child at xxx time on xxx date for your parenting plan. Keep that documentation to bring to court. Keep doing the police reports and certified letters until you get to court. You can file again right before court with the rest of the police reports.

When she goes to work, where is the child?

[blh1013]

Each time we call the police, they refuse to file a report, or even supply us with any sort of paper/card to prove we requested them (I now right down the police officers' names and if I can see it they patrol car number).

we attempt the certified mail, but she refuses to sign for it, and has even tried to use that against us in court (they never served me) although three attempts are made before returning the mail to us-- we keep everything, refused envelope and postal receipt/paperwork, etc. but i'm tired of spending 5-10 dollars every time and her not get the mail. i've decided since the abusive older son (now 19) lives there, when we serve the papers to her thru th email, i'm doing restricted certified mail so only she can sign for it.

we really don't know where the son is when she works-- in MD the age a child can stay home alone is 12, so child protective services will not do anything. he's either home alone or with the older brother (on bail until trial in august for theft).

no one seems to care- when we contacted child protective services and social services, they saw it as just a domestic arguement between divorced parents, adn didn't even investigate....altough several times we've had plenty to do that. we even attempted to file for emergency exparte to remove the child from her, but the judge said he couldn't remove on suspicions of what may happen (the sexual predator again living with th e victim).

I've half tempted to write th enews stations, congressmen, etc. but no one cares since this is such a common problem. my stress/health problems will not tolerate this, and it just leaves my husband in moods since he can't talk to his son, or if we know he's alright.

the child complained during the school year, he didn't like it at our home because we had rules (his only chores/rules were a set bedtime, keep bedroom clean, homeowrk done adn up to date or he would miss activities, and a set bedtime for school nights and weekends (9:30 and 10 PM). at mom's he can do whatever-he has three game systems, eats whatever he wants when he wants (the child is 75+ lbs overweight and seeing specialtist for cholestrol problems that mom doesn't care),so he sees us as the bad guys and mom as the pushover- we can't compete when she's like this.

i'm about to say i don't care if the kid ever comes back- child support is pulled from my hub's check, so she gets paid, but it's nothing but battles.

[ocean]

File contempt yourselves.... Go with your husband and video tape the exchange (or non exchange), have it stamp dates if possible... You can use the tape in court. You will have to testify that you were the one that took the video and that is has not been altered since you took the tape. You can also call police and say you want them at the exchange. Tell them you are taking their badge number date/time and that you may supenea them so they should write the report so they remember...(LOL). Plus they will be in video tape too... It is a big pain..doing it each time but keep doing it until you get the court date.

You can try and have them do a welfare check at that time since you have not heard from child in almost a month. They may do that..at least they will get to child. Can dad knock on door when mom is at work and see if he is there? Does child have own cell phone?

You really need to get into court so file the paperwork and get that started. Once you get it in writing for the summer then she wont be able to pull this. DId you look at all the old paperwork and see if summer is in it? Weird how they covered everything else that is why I am asking...My Dh has 4 sets to go through depending on what we are looking for...

Letters- Since she is not signing them...send them ONLY certified NO signature..then print out when they delivered letters to her from the website. THis way she can no longer say she didnt get them...it was delivered to her house. She cant refuse it, just gets put in mailbox. Just keep them simple, right to point, facts only.

[snowrose]

If your court order states that you have the child EO Fri through Sunday with no exceptions for summer vacation, then that order is supposed to be in force even during summer vacation - unless the order specifically states that it is only for during the school year.

What you need to do is file a motion to add to and clarify the visitation schedule.  File a motion to clearly denote what you want for summer vacation.  Maybe you want to have the child every other week.  Maybe you want to have the child two weeks at a time and then the mother to have the child two weeks at a time.  Whatever you want for visitation, file for it, get a court date set, and serve the papers on the mother.  (Or follow whatever requirements there are in your jurisdiction for informing the mother of the impending court action.)  Be very specific about how leftover days should be handled when school lets out or as school begins.

I'm curious, though.  Could you please write out exactly what the court order says regarding visitation?  I think we need to see that word-for-word.

[blh1013]

depending on which of th efour that are relied on....the inital (2004) decree, before th echild was abused by his half brother stated "each parent will have a two week uninterrupted period to spend with th echild"- at that point, my hubby had custodsy and mom only visitation (because of her action in front of the judge from the get go-- she filed it all when child was 9 months old, filed paternity adn child support, and when judge heard she didn't allow dad as part of child's life untilcourt proceedings, he took the baby from her and gave to dad.

nect in 2006, custody changed after the child was seually molested (made to prefer oral on his 14 y/o brother), the 14 y/o tried to deny and push blame off saying my hub did it to him as well, but after social services investigations and lie detector tests, my hub was cleared, but thhought taking his son's wished into consideration might help improve his wellbeing (he asked to live with mom). at that point, the decree was worded as "dad with liberal visitation no less that ever other weekend" (no weekdays due to 70 mile difference). in 2006, we moved, adn when my hub's job changed, it interfered with the ever other week-- he was part of a five week rotation work schedule, so if he was off and the wekend lined up, she's let us have the child, if not, we went six weeks without seeing him. ontempt was filed, and inthe hearing 6 months later the jusge reamed into her, then worded that we have him on hub's specific weekends offf.

we moved here 18 months ago, and the judge wanted it to be more time with parents, adn less time with daycare. her atty wrote up the first erroneous papers in 07, claiming we owed 1100 per month in support, and every other weekend, go to mom on monday, and back to us til thursday am (the exchanges are worded at the beginning at the school day or end of school day/extracurricular activity)...we immediately filed for an amendement, since she never provided medical or child care bills and in january 08, the child support was reduced to 305 per month (after a year of us having to almost declasre bankruptcy).

she claimed to the police when we called them on july 17th there is no specific wording for summers; after looking at everything, i can't find that's she's wrong, but why from 2004-2007 would you do the week to week split, and now that we live 6 homes away, we can't see hime for six months?

the child had five reprimands for sexual misbehavior, and one suspension in june, and things slide downhill when we don't see him. he was in the hospital in january, and we wouldn't have known if we hadn't contacted her ped for copies, and her home number is disconneted, she's changed jobs, and refuses to answer letters we mail or cel phone bociemails we leave; she as well rejects our emails (marks as spam and we get meddage as delivery failaure)

we dave all this, making logs, printout, calendars, and are going this week to file contempt, but no one seems to care- the courts are over flooded, and i want to write to someone to start an human interest, but SS and CPS just sees it as a domestic he said she said.

[snowrose]

her atty wrote up the first erroneous papers in 07... go to mom on monday, and back to us til thursday am (the exchanges are worded at the beginning at the school day or end of school day/extracurricular activity)...we immediately filed for an amendement

It sounds like this is the final document, then.  What does this final document say?  Could you dig it out and copy it for us, word for word?  (Sorry for the trouble, but the way it's worded really does make a difference.)

[blh1013]

Sorry it ook so long, but had to find them all, here we go:

initial divorce date 8/13/2001(my hsuband/child's father)- given primary physcial custody, both parents joint legal custody. vistiation for mom was according to her work schedule; on mention of summer is  "each party shall have the minor child for two weeks during the summer provided each taked advantage of those weeks by not working and by spending vacation time with the child." "ordered that each party hereby grants the right to tape record all conversations with th eother party, whether in person or by phone"

next decree from 11/23/04 (after child was sexually abused by older half brother, child requested to live with mom)-quite lengthy, but highlights are "both parties shall keep each other informed as to their current work asn home addresses and telephone numbers. phone communication shall not be utilized as a part of harassment. If either party traveling out of town more than three days, they shall notify the other party of an address and telephone number that can be reached in case of emergency. each to notify of medical providers, etc....organized, schoool, religous, extracurricular events,.....ordered that parties shall have shared legal custody, mother primary physical custody, ordered father is awarded reasonable visiation rights, to include minimum of every other weekend bwginning friday afternoon after school until sunday evenings at 7:30 pm, and that father shall have visitation every other week during the school summer vacation."

two more in between- just to clarify our filing of contempt of denials-- specific dates to accomodate dad's work schedule

last and latest date 10/1/08, -- the statment-- the previous orders of this honorable court shall remain in full force and effect except where they conflict with tthis order....then specifies our midweek dinner, corrects the child support that was erroneous (in the 2007 order was 1190 per month, corrected to 305 per month, child support retroactive to our filing of amendment request), that I (stepmom) who is not employd (college online student/homemaker) shall provide all daycare needs of the minor child at no costs to the parties, parents shall split costs of extracurricular activites, each party to post a bond of 250 held in escrow of the counsel of the opposing party. the purpose of this bond is to ensure compliance with the terms, conditions, and most inportantly the times of visiation schedules. of either party is late in returning the minor child, a $50 penalty shall be imposed against them and withdrawn from the bond/escrow account.


let me know if there's anything else that can help to get suggestions to nail her (sorry, hostility is getting to me the more I see how she plays th edecrees to fit her needs and never gets in trouble but if my husband were to pull this, he'd probably be sitting in jail.

[snowrose]

again, this summer mom is denying all contact- we last saw/spoke to the child on june 25th. we have called repeatedly and since- mom's home number is disconnected; her email adress we have rejects our emails, the toll facility she works at, when called, says she doesn't work there anymore (it seems she transferred). when we went to the house last friday to pick up my stepson, or at least see/speak to him, the older brother became verbally threatening and libelous, and mom refused to answer the door. we called the police, who once again said they couldn't do anything, we needed to return to court.

we are in the process of filing another contempt round on her for this. mom never abides by the decree (turns out she cancels dr.'s appts we make, and when th echild was seen in the er in january, we only found out when we requested her pediatrician's medical records.) now with having no alternate means of contact other than home adress and cell phone (no responses) we don't know what to do.

include minimum of every other weekend beginning friday afternoon after school until sunday evenings at 7:30 pm, and that father shall have visitation every other week during the school summer vacation

This overrides the original requirement of 2 weeks for each parent in the summer.  So if this is your last order, then this is what should be happening.

With the escrowed money, it's obvious that the court is expecting problems and is trying to head them off.  Since the mother isn't allowing any visitation at all, and since you are already going to court because of the Contempt Order, it might be a good idea to ask the judge to rule on which weeks are yours this summer.  Then with that direction from the court you might be able to have the police help you if she denies visitation again.

Also, you might ask for direction from the court as to how you might specify how to determine which weeks are yours each summer and have that written into the order. With this kind of thing you have to be very, very specific in defining when your time is.  Make sure the order includes what day of the week and what time exchanges will happen.

One thing I will say, though.  This child is getting older and in a few more years you're going to have to be realistic in that you won't be able to force him to visit you if he doesn't want to.  I know that's hard to accept but you're going to have to walk a fine line between wanting to see him and forcing him to see you.

[Davy]

Do not expect the police to help ... they seldom try and oftened get flicked off if they do. If a parent refuses to comply with a court order why would they comply with a patrol officer.

There have been posters here that got law enforcement to act on the criminal Interference laws (carry a copy with you) and hauled them off to jail in cuffs.  They may have to be cuffed and hauled multiple times cause they really think they are above the law..

The court must hold her in contempt with severe penalties as well.

No more of this mambi bambi BS.

[snowrose]

Do not expect the police to help ... they seldom try and oftened get flicked off if they do. If a parent refuses to comply with a court order why would they comply with a patrol officer.

Because the officer embodies carrying out the law, and many people will comply with an officer.

I actually have several friends who've had the police come with them to pick up the children.  The officer looks at the court order and tells the offending parent that it must be obeyed, and the kids leave with the collecting parent.

So there are times that it can work.

[Davy]

I hope what you say is true but on the other hand one has to ask why would any parent need to have the force of a badge and gun to gather their precious children.

Given the criteria you just expoused then patrol officers should hear all contempt motions and we could have fewer judges and more police officers.

I wish it were that simple but here in the real world I've seen literally 1000's of posters on this site and 1000's of fathers I was associated with over a long period of time being denied court ordered access to their children and the the children to their fathers.

In essence, this is one of the main reasons the Federal Office of Juvenile Justice with the assistance of the ABA developed the Criminal Custodial Interference statues and got them enacted in all states.  No one should act like these statues appeared out of thin air.  There was much suffering.

[snowrose]

Given the criteria you just expoused then patrol officers should hear all contempt motions and we could have fewer judges and more police officers.

I think you've confused hearing a motion and enforcing an order already made by the court.  You don't have officers hearing motions in court anymore than you have judges out of the street enforcing the law.

I wish it were that simple but here in the real world I've seen literally 1000's of posters on this site and 1000's of fathers I was associated with over a long period of time being denied court ordered access to their children and the the children to their fathers.

Many of those posters don't have an order.  Many of those posters who have an order never thought of asking the police to enforce the order.  And this site isn't the only site on the internet that deals with this sort of thing, so I doubt your pool used for comparison is any larger than my own.

Your post is patronizing for no reason at all.  Next time I won't bandy straw man arguments with you.

[Davy]

Ding Ding.  The OP has already posted that the PD is contacted and they refuse to even take a repor which is normal.  At the same time, you post that "The officer looks at the court order and tells the offending parent that it must be obeyed".  Wouldn't it be great if the court looks at their own court order and tells the offending parent that it must be obeyed ?  Zing.........

I also posted :

- a parent should not need a badge and a gun to have a loving relationship with their precious children.  MOREOVER, I didn't want my kids to be shown to disrespect authorithy and then wonder why they become hard core juvenile delinquents.

- to exemlify that non compliance with court orders has taken place over a long period of time and many parents, family members and children have suffered greatly alongside the children

- to give evidence of the magitude of the problem by citing the criminalization of custodial intererence across this once great nation.

There was nothing patronizing about my post.  While my post is rationally truthful your post and practically all your posts are full of mambie pamie BS.  Why don't you stick to the subject matter and try to help if you really can.  You are PATRONIZING and you will not patronize me or people like me so get over yourself..   

[Kitty C.]

Davy, don't go there..........

Snowrose was only describing what she and others she knows have experienced.  She did NOT say that it was or should be the norm, just that it DOES happen.  We even had it happen, tho many years ago.  Many here, including snowrose, understand that every jurisdiction is different, both the courts and law enforcement, in dealing with family issues.  What snowrose and others (I included) are doing is giving their perspectives on THEIR experiences, NOT what is or should be the norm.

In a perfect world, parents would NOT have to call the cops to try to enforce an order.  In a perfect world, ALL children would have 50/50 access to their parents after a divorce/separation.  Heck, in a perfect world, parents would stay together and there would be no use of family court to begin with.  But this is not a perfect world and those who come here and have been here will still utilize whatever means available to get acess to their kids.  If that means calling the cops, so be it.  If that doesn't work, then another approach is needed.  But we keep at it until either our children have us in their lives or the system beats us down so far, we no longer have the strength to fight it.

But that's what this site is for....the trading of experiences and ideas on how to deal with this archaic system that seems hellbent on keeping children and their parents separated.  I will repeat again......what may work for one may not work for another......but one won't know until they try.

Davy, your question is valid........why should a parent have to resort to calling a cop just to see their child?  The ideologic answer is they shouldn't....but reality is sometimes they have to.  In some places it works, in others it doesn't.  Fact of life, period.  Believe it or not, both of your posts (yours and snowrose's) are 'rationally truthful', just from different experiences.

Patronizing is one thing, and only a matter of perception.  Deliberately putting down a poster's comments by name-calling is immature and will not be tolerated here.  MY perception.

[ocean]

In our case, the police would not do anything...we forced the issue and they had DH pull past BM house and they would write a report...took them usually over an hour to get there...sometimes two. BUT the police reports helped somewhat in court...Bottom line is that usually the BM gets told dont do it again...and then she does...back to square one. It really depends on the juristiction and if the judge gets tired of seeing BM break their orders...

[Davy]

Please Kitty don't you go there...

There was nothing at all in my posts that could be considered patronizing or name calling.
 
Raising pertinant issues like the impact on the children pertaining to police presence and

the long history and magnitude of these situations and the advent of the custodial

interference statues as a possible remedy is not patronizing and there was no name

calling.

None of the above would be an issue if somebody had a few friends where a patrol office read the court order.  Don't you think that is trite when considering the lives that have been destroyed when a child is denied access to a parent and vice-versa ?  These issues should not be played down and swayed from the real problem just because there were a couple of officers that could read.  It is not the police fault and I seiously hope you understand.

[Kitty C.]

You do not know my experience.........BT, DT.........

Remember, it's all in the perception..............do NOT patronize me.........

[Davy]

I truly do not understand what you are talking about.  I thought I was sticking to the issue.

Could you kindly and briefly elaborate on your pereption(s) and experience(s) and why on earth you think I am patronizing.

[snowrose]

But that's what this site is for....the trading of experiences and ideas on how to deal with this archaic system that seems hellbent on keeping children and their parents separated.

Exactly.  Everyone's experiences are valid, because they add to our foundation of knowledge as to how things are working in the real world.  Our ideas, well sometimes we're on target for a specific situation and sometimes we aren't - but at least we care enough to try and help those who come to ask for help.

Thanks, Kitty.

[andydandy]

Given the criteria you just expoused then patrol officers should hear all contempt motions and we could have fewer judges and more police officers.

I think you've confused hearing a motion and enforcing an order already made by the court.  You don't have officers hearing motions in court anymore than you have judges out of the street enforcing the law.

I wish it were that simple but here in the real world I've seen literally 1000's of posters on this site and 1000's of fathers I was associated with over a long period of time being denied court ordered access to their children and the the children to their fathers.

Hi, I have a question for both of you if you don't mind (snowrose and davy, but anyone else as well). What if you do have an order, and already have two incidents of interstate custodial interference (2 attorneys in 2 states don't seem to know of anyone actually being prosecuted for this sadly)? I have an upcoming visit, and Mom has already threatened to ignore unless I jump through some special hoops. Apparently, I'm the only one who has to actually adhere to the court order, and then some. I'm fairly certain that this sort of thing would land me an Amber alert--so, I'm just curious what my options are, or if I really am at her mercy. That's sort of how it sounds when you read a lot of these posts.


Davy mentioned taking a copy of the statute--PKPA, interference codes of the state? or is there something else that I haven't been aquainted with? I'm having to go back to interstate, so I'd like to make sure that when I get there--I actually get to pick up my child for my scheduled (court ordered) time.

I've already had 3 attorney, in 3 states--and so far, things have only worked when Mom wanted to reconcile personally.

I've also asked 4 PD's in 3 states--and only one even hinted they would do anything; and then they said if Mom didn't comply I could file a report.

Any advice?

[snowrose]

What if you do have an order, and already have two incidents of interstate custodial interference (2 attorneys in 2 states don't seem to know of anyone actually being prosecuted for this sadly)? I have an upcoming visit, and Mom has already threatened to ignore unless I jump through some special hoops.

There's never any guarantee on something like this.  All you can do is try things and see what happens.  I know that's not very comforting when your travelling interstate but it's the reality of the situation.  Each precinct, each individual officer is changable and you can never tell what will happen.

I know of a couple of people who've gone through this.  They've brought the custody orders with them and gone to the local police department and asked for an escort to pick up the children.  I do know of a case that happened just last week where this has worked and the children left with the visiting parent.   

In other cases the only thing that happened were that reports were filed and brought to the attention of a judge when a contempt motion was filed.  That doesn't necessarily mean much, though.  Just like with the police, how a judge will react to a contempt filing depends on the judge and the day.  I know of judges who have done nothing but threaten (the same as doing nothing).  I know of two judges in just the last few weeks who've thrown the BM in jail!   And then one lady just posted here the other day that the judge made both parents post a bond and an offending parent would lose a portion of the bond if they failed to allow visitation.  Unfortunately that strategy didn't seem to be working - at least not at the moment.

HTH