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Author Topic: Is this possible??  (Read 7681 times)

gnicar23

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Is this possible??
« on: May 28, 2011, 11:03:35 PM »
I have just talked to my ex's mother, not by her choice but I ran into her and cornered her about my son's whereabouts, he was taken a few months ago by his BM out of the US. I asked her how his BM did this legally since I did not give permission and the grandmother told me that since I was behind on child support at the time, that the mother went to the court and they gave her permission to go anywhere she wanted without me even being notified. My child support is current now and has been for several months. I was just behind for a few months at the end of the year because of the economy and lack of work.
 
Could she really have done that without notifiying me at all? Why would I not have been served with something?
What kind of recourse is there, if any?
I feel like I keep getting railroaded when all I want is to see my son.
 
I am not trying to force my ex to come back here, nor am I trying to take my son from her, I just want to make contact with him and have regular visitation with him. I want to know that he is ok and I want him to know that I am not giving up on him or our relationship and that I am always going to be here for him no matter where she takes him off to.
 
This is the hardest thing I have ever had to go through and I just feel lost.


Kitty C.

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2011, 11:16:28 PM »
In order to take the child out of the US, he would have to have a passport.  In order for him to have a passport, BOTH parents have to sign for it.  As far as I know, the ONLY way just one parent would be able to approve for a passport is if it was court-ordered.  And if that happened, you would have had to be notified.  You need to contact an atty. about this.
 
Personally, I think the story the BM's mother is giving you is just that...a story.
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MixedBag

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2011, 07:02:35 AM »
In theory Kitty is right...
 
BUT...
 
There are ways around that.
 
If Mom went back to court, she may have gotten sole custody.
 
And yes, you should have been notified.
 
SO....go get a copy or take a look at what's in the record to see if anything happened.
 
BM may have claimed she didn't know where you were to have you personally served and then put a notice in the paper and had you served that way.
 
And If she doesn't have sole custody, write the passport folks and see if they can get a copy of the passport application and work with them on that angle.
 
BUT it's up to you to go to court and file if Mom is not following the order.
 
 

gnicar23

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2011, 12:13:58 PM »
In our state the mother automatically gets full custody since we were never were married. However it was just an understood full custody, nothing was ever officially on paper and I am on the birth certificate. My son is only 8 and does not require a passport but must have something from both parents on the birth certificate if she tries to leave the country with him. However, she had nothing from me. If she did go through the courts for anything, shouldn't I have been notified or at least my attorney? Just wondering if she would have been able to pull this of without me being notified. They really are some very underhanded people who manipulate the system anyway they can!
 
I truly don't believe she has any documentation that states that she has full custody because I was trying to get school records and the school was giving me a hard time saying they had to verify from mom that I was entitled to them. The BM did not have anything to give the school to keep me from getting the documents. They finally gave me his school records but they removed all of his personal information. The school said that they did that becasuse they had to provide the records because there was nothing keeping me from the information but that BM had requested that I not have their address and phone numbers.

ocean

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2011, 12:50:28 PM »
Few things-
-Children NEED passports, they get a child one that is good for 5 years.-
-Mother can sign for passport if she has sole custody or asked the courts for the ability to apply for the passport.
-The school must give you the paperwork even if she has sole custody, that is a federal law that each parent has access to child's perm record folder which has grades and attendance. Some schools give more than that. She would have to give the school court orders that you are not allowed to have the paperwork.

Ask the courts for a copy of everything and see if she has it. Also, look online. Here, we can see our file and what has been filed online.
You can also, as the father, put a stop on child's passport. Look online for the site to put your child on the list. Get paperwork together to file for visitation, and hire an investigator to see if she is in the country or when she comes back to visit, she can be served. Depending on the country she is in, you may be able to get help having her served. She will be forced to come back to the US to deal with this in a US court.

Was this child born in the US? That changes some things...


gnicar23

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2011, 01:40:21 PM »
Yes, he was born and raised right here in my home state. His mother and I only lived about 1 mile from each other when she up and took off with him. The school only provided me with a copy of his report card but his personal information was all whited out.
 
If she asked the courts for a passport, would I have had to be notified?
If she would have asked for full custody, would i have been notified?
 
She couldn't say she didn't know where i was, becasue I was within a mile of her before she took off.
 

ocean

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2011, 02:00:31 PM »
Well, she could of went in and said, the passport people will not let me get a passport and I never married father, and do not know where he is. They could of just ordered that she be allowed to get a passport. They should of notified you. She would of had to go to the family court near you if you are that close. In NY, you can look it up by last name online. See if your state has that. Also, go to the family courts and ask if anything has been filed with your child's name on it or yours and claimed she could not find you. If you ever went to court with her, then they use the same file number each time either of you file something. So if you have a file number you can ask for the whole file. Look through and make copies of whatever you need.

You can call the passport number too and see what they would need to give you info if your son was ever given a passport.

Are you sure she is out of country? They may be convincing you of that so you do not look. WHat does the school say about child not showing up? Did she ask for school records to be forwarded anywhere? If not, they should be filing educational neglect for child not showing up at school.

gnicar23

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2011, 02:14:28 PM »
Yes, she transferred his school records that is how I located her general area. However, she moved to an area with a population of 300,000 people and she is in the states now (Alaska) but she traveled thru Canada to get him there. We are from a town with a population of 3,000 people. My attorney's office is right across the street from the court house. Can I look up online to see if he has a passport? The local school here gave me copies of everything, no problem, including his transfer request. His new school up there was denying me his information for so long and just recently sent me a copy of his whited out report card

ocean

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2011, 04:18:24 PM »
Try this site: Not sure how long ago she left but it may still be in their system..
http://travel.state.gov/passport/status/status_2567.html
Also, have your lawyer send a letter to the school now that you know which on it is and demand to get the full records with nothing blocked or you will file a federal complaint.

Kitty C.

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2011, 07:10:43 PM »

Yes, she transferred his school records that is how I located her general area. However, she moved to an area with a population of 300,000 people and she is in the states now (Alaska) but she traveled thru Canada to get him there. We are from a town with a population of 3,000 people. My attorney's office is right across the street from the court house. Can I look up online to see if he has a passport? The local school here gave me copies of everything, no problem, including his transfer request. His new school up there was denying me his information for so long and just recently sent me a copy of his whited out report card

 
Okay, that changes things...a LOT.  I was of the impression that the BM and child were out of the country now.  Now it appears she traveled through Canada just to get to Alaska, right?  And if I remember right (from a previous post of yours), you said that she traveled to Alaska in Jan. or Feb., right?  Something stills seems fishy about that, because the ONLY way to drive to Alaska is by the Alaska Highway and it would be practically impassable during the winter.  Do you know how she got to Alaska...are you sure she didn't fly?  A lot of DOT research would have to be done, for both Alaska and Canada, but it's very possible that parts of that highway are literally shut down during winter because it's that difficult to keep it open due to snow.
 
This whole thread regarding passports could be a moot point, depending on how she and the child traveled.  Confirm that and lyou will have a starting point of reference regarding court action.
Handle every stressful situation like a dog........if you can't play with it or eat it, pee on it and walk away.......

Davy

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2011, 08:28:56 PM »
I understood from a recent post that the OP had contacted an attorney for the purpose of filing a custody action (temporary custody) in the home state which ia entirely proper and necessary.  It is also proper and necessary to file ex-parte ... without notice to opposing party since an address is not known to gain service. 
 
The only important issue is the BM has abscounded with the child to parts unknown thus defeating any custody relationship the child would have with the other parent (and visa versa).  At this point (if ever) the mode of transportation as well as the travel iternary is not relevant.  The clock is ticking .............. A home state custody filing is a necessity and will rendor any other filing moot.

Kitty C.

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2011, 11:41:47 PM »
You're absolutely right, Davy...how the BM got there is certainly irrelevant at this point.  But my purpose of pointing it out is because there are discrepancies between this thread and the previous one by the OP.  Giving the impression that the BM is out of the country with the child in this thread when the OP stated something completely different in a previous post has raised red flags for me.  All I'm trying to understand are the true facts of what's going on here.  And by asking the questions I did, I hope that the OP will clarify.
 
 
Handle every stressful situation like a dog........if you can't play with it or eat it, pee on it and walk away.......

Davy

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2011, 11:02:13 AM »
I'm just trying to advise the OP that the very first CRITICAL step is to confirm jurisdiction in the HOME state by the simple filing concerning the child.   The matters of CS, mode of transportation, travel itenary, passports, school records, etc.  are side bar issues that can be washed out in the future.  The statues provide for judges of conflicting jurisdictions to communicate and right now the statues are on his side but may be lost (costly) if he continues to horse around.   Attorneys may be somewhat ignorant (especially in small towns)  or guiding the client into an expensive/intensive interstate ordeal unnecessarily.

ocean

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2011, 11:12:05 AM »
Davy is right. You need to file NOW in your family court for ex-parte (temporary- emergency) custody. You do not have to serve her for that. Tell your lawyer that is what you want to do NOW or you will do it yourself.

Also, the school papers should have the elementary school written on it. That should bring down the area she is in to a few miles wide. Once you get the orders, you will then start the process of getting child back into your state. You will have to ask the judge what is the process or if he can order child be returned or give you an order to pick up child from school. The sheriff might be able to help you. BUT you need to get in front of a judge to get that order. Pretty soon the mother is going to ask Alaska to take over the hearings since she has been there a while and you will have that to fight too.

gnicar23

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2011, 06:46:31 PM »
Sorry about the miss understanding, but the BM did drive up to Alaska, right through Canada in late January. That is now confirmed. Apparently she traded her car in for a new expedition, loaded up the kids and took off. I was just told Saturday that she had drove up there and that she had every right to since she went to the court and got it okayed, but I searched our court records here online and nothing was filed on our CS case nor was there anything filed under her name or my name. I wasn't aware that our local court house had gone online but I did some research and still no records were produced. I am going to the court house tomorrow when they open to see if there is anything filed that has not been put on the website but I wouldn't think there would be. I did speak to my attorney's secretary TWO weeks ago about filing something and they called back this past Thursday and said they will get it filed but I never heard from them again. I paid this man $700 up front, so I am hoping he gets on the ball and does something fast.
 
Can I file this on my own? If I file this on my own, can he withdraw from my case and keep the money I just gave him?
 
Again, I just know a general area because Anchorage, Alaska is huge and there is 80 something schools in that district. I had a friend who located where she works off of facebook, can we have her served there since we can't get an address? I asked the lady at the attorneys office if we could legally get the address from the school and she said she would ask the attorney and call me back but I have not heard back about that, besides the school district recessed for summer as of May 19th.
 
If we file ex-parte, I seen where someone said the mother doesn't have to be served, is that right? How do we get my son back then, if she is not served?
 
Can they serve her family here that are in contact with her or does she have to be the one who gets served if we have to go that route?

Kitty C.

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2011, 07:56:52 PM »
'I was just told Saturday that she had drove up there and that she had every right to since she went to the court and got it okayed, but I searched our court records here online and nothing was filed on our CS case nor was there anything filed under her name or my name.'
 
You're talking apples and oranges here.  There would be nothing on the CS court record regarding her or your rights rights to the child.....it ONLY pertains to CS.  Do you have a custody order of any kind?
 
Also, you had said previously that you did receive info from the new school, but that the BM's information was blocked out.  If this was from the new school, it has to have the school's name (or at least the district the elem. school is in) on the documentation somewhere, if nothing else on the return address of the envelope.  That's the place to start in trying to track down your child's location.  You might want to verify with the education laws of Alaska, but I would venture to say that she probably has to live within a certain area of the school in order for the child to be eligible to attend there.
Handle every stressful situation like a dog........if you can't play with it or eat it, pee on it and walk away.......

gnicar23

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2011, 09:35:16 AM »
I guess I am totally confused but I was told that is she filed something here it would have to be on our existing case which was just for child support. We have never had a visitation order or a custody order in place. I seen him regularly, so I never thought anything like this would happen. Bm's mother said taht she was able to get permission from the court to take him since I was behind on child support,so I thought it would have to be linked to my child support case some how.
 
There has not been any new cases opened here either though, so what does all of this mean? I looked up both my name and her name and nothing came up.
 
Are you saying she could take him without the permission of the court?
 
The info for the new school was all whited out but the return address was on the envelope. I have looked up the school and found the boundary map of that particular school but the attorney says that will get me no where without an address for her to be served at.
 
 

Kitty C.

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2011, 10:22:53 AM »
That changes everything.  If there is NO custody order on file, the you have to petition the court to start one.  But the clock is ticking.  If the child was taken out of the state just this past Jan., then your state is the current state of jurisdiction.  But if you wait longer than 6 months from the time the child left, Alaska will have jurisdiction and you would have to file there and ALL proceedings would take place there, as well.  Custody and support are two completely different issues and one will not address the other.
 
'There has not been any new cases opened here either though, so what does all of this mean? I looked up both my name and her name and nothing came up.'
 
Of course not, because there's no active custody case, she's left the state, and you've filed nothing in response to her leaving.  You need an atty., you need to file a custody petition NOW, get BM served with it (now that you have a better idea where she's at), and make sure that jurisdiction remains in your state. 
Handle every stressful situation like a dog........if you can't play with it or eat it, pee on it and walk away.......

gnicar23

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2011, 10:45:23 AM »
But how do I get her served? My attorney says we need an address to serve her at. I have heard of a place that she works and she was supposed to have signed a two year contract there. Can she be served there? If I file here and she does live there for two years, can she later move jurisdiction up there? I have talked to an attorney two weeks ago trying to get something done but nothing has been filed yet. I will be calling them again today.

ocean

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2011, 01:02:04 PM »
Few ways to serve her:
Yes, you can serve her at work.
Hire someone to find home address, should be pretty easy, tell child's school, her work. They will find her.
Hire a company to serve her at work (or home if you get that)
Some places have the sheriff's office to the serving...(not by me, you have to hire someone or have someone over 18 serve).

Make an appointment with lawyer ASAP. Demand they file papers (and emergency ones if possible) and a restraining order for child to be returned and stay in your home state until trial. You can do this yourself, not sure what your lawyer has done for $700 so far but here it is free to file yourself. Tell you lawyer you want to be aggressive with returning child here and for the case to he heard and that you have a work address and she can be served ASAP.

Emergency (ex-parte) motion for temporary custody- due to mother leaving state and not allowing any contact information to child. Father was very involved and saw child weekly (whatever..) and the father requests temporary custody and that child be returned to home state until a full custody hearing can be heard by this court. The judge may or may not go for the emergency part (where she does not need to be served, you just see a judge that day and say the reasons why child should be returned to home state - school, family- both sides, father involved). If judge grants it..great. If not, he should grant a hearing ...which then you would have to have her served. She would have to come back to your state to deal with it. IF she file in Alaska before you file...you will have that fight first...

A phone call from lawyer to school district might get things rolling faster or a letter over-nighted to them. The lawyer can strongly word that letter for them to comply.

MixedBag

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2011, 01:20:32 PM »
For the most part, I agree with you folks.
 
HOWEVER, where's the emergency?  The child has not been physically harmed -- and has been GONE since January.
 
Father did NOTHING once his "highly" involvement ceased.
 
Dad, ultimately, I'm on your side.....but stop dragging your feet and stop letting your attorney drag their feet.
 
If there was no custody order, NO mom didn't have to ask you for permission to get a passport to leave (I'm betting).
 
Yes, it probably states somewhere in the states code that she has to ask for permission to leave, but you might have missed that boat too.
 
File locally, ASAP, like before the end of this month of June, and even then, you might lose jurisdiction because of the lack of action.
 
 

ocean

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2011, 01:30:05 PM »
I agree....try for the emergency but you will have to really convince a judge on why you waited so long. He can use that he did not know where mother was, didnt have money for lawyer, didnt know you can do it yourself, but bottom line is you need to file something this week to get the ball moving and to keep all court dates by you for the next XX years (til child is 18).

gnicar23

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2011, 02:03:04 PM »
Trust me, I AM NOT DRAGGING MT FEET! I have been trying since January to locate my son. I first had to wait on school papers here and then I sent them to his new school along with several phone calls to the school and waited and waited till they finally sent me something after school had already recessed for the summer!! I have contacted all of her family her numerous times but no one will return my calls or anything else! I have been steadily fighting for some information. My attorney has been aware of this and has continued to say we have to have an address to serve her at or there is nothing we can do! I just recently got lucky and someone was able to give me a place of employment. Then just Saturday, I cornered her mother face to face (which is the first time that I have actually laid eyes on her since december b/c she has been hiding out from me and avoiding my phone calls). I refused to leave until she gave me information on my son! That is how I got the most recent information. This family is very manipulative and know how to work the system!
 
My concern was that she said the BM took my rights away in court and got a paper stating she coud take my child anywhere BM wanted and i was never notified. Than BMs mother changed her story and said she went ot court and got a paper allowing her to take him anywhere she wanted. I DON"T KNOW WHAT THE TRUTH IS BUT I DO WANT TO KNOW WHAT TO DO FROM HERE!
 
My attorneys office told me BM can not change jurisdiction without this court allowing it and they would fight to keep it here. ?? Don't know how true that is either b/c everyone on here seems to think it can just be changed!????
 
BMs mother said she would not go to court and defend her daughters actions because she knows that what her daughter is doing is wrong but there is nothing she can do to change things. BM has three children all by different fathers and we are all going through the same thing. BMs mother wants me to fight to force her daughter to come back here. I told her i dont care what her daughter does and that I am not trying to keep my son from his mother I just want my son to have the opportunity to be part of my life as well as his mothers and to be able to have us both in his life.
 
This is on my mind all the time and I have been researching everything I can to try and figure out the right way to handle this. I don't want anyone to get hurt but right now my son is hurting and I will not stand back and just allow that to happen. I am fighting for him everyday. I have been trying to get my attorneys office to get this filed for two weeks today!! If I file on my own, then what? My attorney walks away with my money and does nothing and I have to find new representation??

ocean

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2011, 02:34:42 PM »
If she filed in Alaska, Alaska would have to ask your state to take over. If the child/mother is there over 6 months, many courts have sided with moving it BUT as long as you stay in the state and fight it, you should win. Make sure the court house has your correct info and tell them to password protect it so mother can not call up with a fake address.

We know you are fighting this hard BUT the longer you get into the court, the harder it will be. If you call your lawyer and talk to secretary, ask for appointment then they have to talk to you (but pay them). You can ask them to file for you NOW or you will do it. I will tell you that $700 will not get you too far so ask if you can file yourself to save on costs and hire them for court dates. Ask them what papers you should file. Some lawyers will allow you to do this to save money and their time. If you went to court and said in Jan "hey, mom just took kids out of school and left", the courts could of stopped the old school from forwarding any paperwork and an alert could of went out to know about where mom is when the new school asked for info.

Can not change things now...but push the lawyer to move now. They can only charge you for what they did. So if they did $200 worth of things, and you fired them, you would be refunded the money. It goes very quickly. Every phone call, office visit, talking to ex, writing up letters, writing up papers...adds up. I think your lawyer is just took your $700 in hopes that mom can not be found...because most lawyers take thousands up front and blow through that real quick with motions/court dates. Let you lawyer know exactly what you want, and if they can not do that, kindly send you a check for rest of retainer and find someone that will push for you.

MixedBag

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2011, 08:03:46 PM »
There are a few here (thinking NYParent for one), that have fought and lost the jurisdiction issue when they didn't leave the original state and the Mother fled to another.....And the NY judge allowed it to move to Texas.
 
I suggest you got LOOK at your file in person.  SKIP what you see on line.
 
I suggest you talk to the clerk and see if they will clue you in on what your state's procedure is when you don't know the address of the other parent.
 
Along with what Ocean says....

bloom6372

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2011, 11:02:14 PM »
I will agree with filing NOW. As in, yesterday. In the state we originally dealt with (NC), after 6 months, you cannot request that the child be moved back (unless there is a change in custody, obviously).
 
You can find ideas online for a motion online, use the format from previous court paperwork and type on up. Have it signed and notarized and submit it to the Court. My DH and I always type up his paperwork. He's had 4 hearings, and only once did he have an attorney.

gnicar23

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #26 on: Jun 01, 2011, 06:29:00 AM »
I would just like to thank everyone for there comments. I am going in to see my attorney in person today and I will keep everyone posted. Again, Thank you all for taking your time to try and help me out. I hate even having to go through this but it just seems like my ex is so vindictive that there is never an easy way to handle things anymore.

Some TN Dad

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Re: Is this possible??
« Reply #27 on: Jun 05, 2011, 07:12:35 PM »
Hello,
How did your meeting go?

In one post you say that your att'y has told your ex will have to file to have jurisdiction moved to Alaska.  Is this based upon the fact that you have child support ordered in your state?

What your attorney says may or may not be true, or, if true, may or may not mean a hill of beans to an AK court.  In any case, if she files something up there on the day she has been there for six months, or lies, you will have a lot of expense one way or the other.

If your attorney has a habit of not answering your calls for two weeks, he or she is probably in violation of the rules of professional conduct.  Check the state board of professional conduct or whatever it is called up there to see if there have ever been disciplinary issues with him.  Call, as the online records may reflect nothing or only a fraction of complaints.  While you are on the phone, ask if blah blah or blah can be considered a violation of the RPC.  File a complaint yourself.

We have to find her before we can do anything is not acceptable, get a new lawyer or try to file by yourself.  YESTERDAY.

Have documentation of your efforts - if you printed the Facebook pages you should have dates in the corners.  The letter from the school shows your effort and that she is deliberately interfering (so are they).   Any thing you have that can prevent the court from saying this is the first we have heard of it, or the first you have tried.


 Act now.



~~~~~~


Old story - when my ex left the state, then refused to return, then hid the children - I went to legal aid for help.
They took a while to make their decision about helping me, rendering it moot when the six month window passed.  (There are exceptions to this home state rule - or rather reasons a new home state might decline to exercise jurisdiction - such as ties, and evidence in the former state, but they always fight against a presumption, and require time and money to get before the courts).
They wrote me a nice letter which stated that they could not help me as I was no longer in danger from her as she was now several states away, and could not help my children because they now had a new home state, and lack or resources...  But please feel free to contact us if you ever require assistance in the future.

 

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