General Visitation Schedule

[AnnetteN]

First of all I live in MI and since my divorce about six years ago we have alternated every other weekend and some extra time to my ex-husband over the summer and holidays.  We have had some disagreements over time and Holidays but it has suddenly turned into a argument. 

In our court order it only states that he gets reasonable and liberal parenting time and that we have joint legal custody with me having sole physical custody.

I am looking to get an idea of what a court would assign for parenting time if we would have gone that way so so I can attempt to figure out a fair summer schedule.  Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[ocean]

Summer is usually awarded to the non-custodial parent. Most orders have 4-6 weeks with 2 weeks to primary parent to take a vacation. Child is usually returned a week before school starts.
Holidays are usually split every other year. Some holidays you would get in odd years and the others in even years.

[bloom6372]

http://courts.michigan.gov/scao/resources/publications/manuals/focb/pt_gdlns.pdf (http://courts.michigan.gov/scao/resources/publications/manuals/focb/pt_gdlns.pdf)

Read there--it will let you know the "minimum" of what the Court usually grants.

[gemini3]

What have you guys been doing for summers and holidays for the last six years?  What is the disagreement over?

[AnnetteN]

Summers he took him a few extra days on his weekends and some other days when he requested.  Holidays we worked around for the most part since he likes to work holidays for the extra pay he gets.  I got upset when he insisted on having a holiday just to leave our son with a girlfriend or babysitter instead of letting him be with us. 

Since our divorce he has been remarried once and had another child, and three other live in girl friends.  When he gets a new girl friend he all of a sudden wants to get him more since he has a babysitter as he voluntarily works midnights. Then when he does have him he sleeps during the day and he just sits and watches tv and plays video games most the day.  Or if he is home with him at night he lets him stay up really late so he will sleep in the morning with him which causes problems when he comes home especially during the school year.

Now he has set visitation with his other child he had with his second ex-wife and he expects me to go by that same schedule.  I think it would be nice to have a schedule laid out so we all know exactly what to expect but I think it should work for both of us just not go by what another court appointed for his other child  since our familys situations are very different.

[gam]

Michigan each county is a bit different. What ya need to do is google your county name, then Friend of Court handbook. Each county has there own, and then vary. In just about every county I have looked at in Michigan, the Friend of Court has a standard visitation plan laid out, again they vary between counties. When 2 people have problems with an order that is reasonable and liberal, usually the court will just assign the standard visitation plan. If your counties is not online, you can call the Friend of Court and request one by mailed to you, or go down and pick it up(much faster). You can also look up the Michigan State Friend of Court handbook and any other county to get an idea. Just keep in mind your county might have a bit different one.

In my county, standard is EOW, Fri 6pm till Sun 7pm(summer 8pm). One weeknight, 6pm-8pm(summer 9pm).

Holidays are every other, each standard plan, will list mom gets these holidays on even years and these holidays on odd, and then dad would get the opposite for even and odd. Holidays in my county are, Mid winter break, spring break and Easter(some years these fall at different times, sometimes they fall at the same time), memorial weekend, 4th of July, Labor day, halloween, thanksgiving and christmas/new year. Keep in mind the holidays during school, usually are the entire school break. Christmas goes like this in my county, even years mom gets from the day school recesses till 9pm christmas eve, dad gets 9pm christmas eve till 7pm the day before school resumes, on odd years, you just reverse mom and dad, dad gets front part, mom gets second part. Some holidays cover the entire school break, some holidays cover a 3-4 day period.

Summer vacation, in my county each parent gets 3 weeks of vacation, 1-1 week and 1-2 week, the vacation scheduled, must be agreed upon by May 1st and a copy of it turned in to Friend of Court by that date. The time runs from 8pm Sun till 8pm the following Sun.

Now to give you an idea of another county, my Niece's order is the county next to mine. They have no mid winter break, because none of the school districts in that county, have a week off in Feb. They don't include halloween and summer is 3 weeks, however it is 3-1 week periods. Non custodial can take his on custodial parents weekends, but custodial parent can't take there's on non custodial weekends.

Pretty standard practice for courts in Michigan to just use this standard, unless you have good arguments why dad should not have standard, he will get standard. So basically your choice is to work out a plan with dad yourself, or let the court do it, and the court will just assign the standard. You can work out a plan, get it on paper and take it down to Friend of Court to have it become an order. But both parties must go together, depending on the county, either FOC will take it and have Judge sign it, or set up a date(sometimes right then, my county does)to go in front of Judge. Judge just wants to make sure both parties agree, and both parties know they had the right to seek counsel and the right for a hearing in court. If you both agree, the Judge will sign off on the order right then, you can walk out with your order on paper, in your hand.

[gemini3]

I think asking to have his parenting time coordinate with that of his other child is a reasonable request.  The court is going to consider what is in the best interest of the child, not of the parents.  The father's other children are your childs siblings, and thus they will consider the siblings ability to spend time with each other.  If the parent time schedules are different they will never get to see each other.

[tigger]

I think asking to have his parenting time coordinate with that of his other child is a reasonable request.  The court is going to consider what is in the best interest of the child, not of the parents.  The father's other children are your childs siblings, and thus they will consider the siblings ability to spend time with each other.  If the parent time schedules are different they will never get to see each other.

I disagree.  Her schedule came first.  He should have had the subsequent child's schedule match the one that already existed. 

My ex tried this argument and the courts disregarded it (a daughter in the home was sibling to my kids and his wife's son but my sons' schedule was different than the stepson).  I gave in for the weekends (only because he would lie about which weekend he worked) but stood my ground on the holidays.  I matched the Christmas holiday but set the rest of them so that they alternated within the year and alternated each year.  So some matched, others didn't because they had a weird schedule.  When her ex suggested that they do the same, she refused . . . because it had been my idea.    He worked every 4 weeks and chose to have his boys on the weekend he worked. 

[gam]

I can tell you the many Judges I have seen in different courts in Mi, will consider things like other children and work schedules. But I said consider, so they do that case by case, they honestly don't like taking time to figure out complicated schedules.   

If her ex and his 2nd wife, also have a Mi order, and if it is standard, this would not matter anyways. Dad would have his kids on the same weekends and same holidays each year. Every standard parenting plan I have seen(I have not seen every county in Mi, but a good portion of them), do it the same. They dish out by dad and mom, not custodial and non custodial. So all dads have the same and all moms have the same.

Mom in this case needs to understand, if they can't work out a schedule, most likely dad will get standard. Mi is really big on giving standard when the 2 parents can't work it out themselves. It won't be up to mom to decide when dad has child and when he does not. Your weekends and holidays are laid out for you, so is the amount of time for summer and extended holidays.

Looking at her posts, she has just given dad some extra time on his weekends and a few here and there when he asked. She also has done holiday's based on if dad is working or not, if he is working he does not get the child. Standard does not work like that. If dad has the back half of Christmas, he gets from Christmas eve, until the night before school resumes. It don't matter if he works on any of those day's, it is his time, and he can have someone watch the kids, while he works.

Poster really needs to look up her standard parenting schedule for her county and start with that working with dad. If this goes to court, the very least dad will get is that standard. He could get more. But unless the dad needs something like supervision or we are talking a young child(many county's don't consider child age), dad will get standard, if they can't work something out themselves.

[gemini3]

I disagree.  Her schedule came first.  He should have had the subsequent child's schedule match the one that already existed. 

My ex tried this argument and the courts disregarded it (a daughter in the home was sibling to my kids and his wife's son but my sons' schedule was different than the stepson).  I gave in for the weekends (only because he would lie about which weekend he worked) but stood my ground on the holidays.  I matched the Christmas holiday but set the rest of them so that they alternated within the year and alternated each year.  So some matched, others didn't because they had a weird schedule.  When her ex suggested that they do the same, she refused . . . because it had been my idea.    He worked every 4 weeks and chose to have his boys on the weekend he worked. 

I think, in this case, the outcome might be different.  I say this because it seems that the summer schedule is not spelled out in the CO for the first child, so it would be impossible for the father to have had the CO for the second child coordinate summer time.

[AnnetteN]

Just to clarify I have let him have him on Holidays that he has worked I just don't agree because of his reasonings.  He plays a lot of games with the kids heads and with his time.  There has been many times he has cancelled his weekend with some excuse like he was sick and then mutual friends say they ran into him out at the bar that evening or posted things online about being out and times he has cancelled right before school activities because of misc excuses as well.

He also doesn't like that we have been able to take family vacations and tells our son that he can't because I take all his money and that he pays for our vacations.  My son has came home quoting that amount of child support.  There is a lot more back story that isn't worth getting into just petty stuff.   Not to mention his work schedule is not only midnights but days off change every few weeks as well so they do not stay the same. We have looked at the standards and have offered what I think is a very reasonable schedule with splitting time on Holidays and breaks and giving more time over the summer.  If it does go to a judge I feel we were reasonable and am anxious to see what happens and get this done.   

[gam]

I do get the problem with him cancelling. I have many extended family members in split situations, several custodial moms and several custodial dads. Big complaint by all of them is the other parent cancelling, and they often find out their other is doing the things your ex is, lying about why they need to cancel and it showing up online in their postings.

But here is the deal, they have the right to visitation time, but they are not obligated to take that right. So by becoming the custodial parent, you actually agree to be crapped on when they don't want their time and come up with lame excuses so they can go do their thing. But then you can look at it this way, you actually are not that crapped on, cause you get extra time with your child, or maybe some other family member gets time with them, as you may have made plans cause you thought the children would be with dad. I do know ones who have gotten weeknight visitation taken from the non custodial parent. But they had to have a years worth of no shows, and proof of the no shows. I have yet to see one get weekends taken away, but then I don't anyone who has missed a years worth of weekend visits.

In Michigan you do not have to give make up time, unless your the one who cancelled the visit. So if dad cancels his visit, he can be out of luck. The court does like to see that the custodial parent tries to give them make up time anyways, but they also understand that you can't always arrange your own schedule to work that out.

If you read the handbook, most have something in there about either parent not talking to the other about the court stuff, that includes child support. However the handbook is just guideline, so Friend of Court can't do anything about it unless it is written in your order. Now I wouldn't go filing cause he tells the kid one thing, but if he is discussing this stuff with the child often, then you surely can ask for it in your order. Then if it is in order, dad would be in contempt of that order. With how Michigan does it, you don't have to actually file contempt, you can write Friend of Court your complaints(as long as it in the order), and they will investigate. Basically they will just tell dad not to do it, but if this were to become an ongoing issue, and dad was to ignore what FOC told him, they will do more.

Just giving you extras, cause I'm not sure how much you know on any of this, show just showing what can be possibly done on certain things. Last thing, don't forget in Michigan, you first go to a Ref, Refs only make recommendations, if you don't like what they recommend, you have the right to object and see the Judge. Nothing is an order until the Judge signs it. If you don't object to a Refs recommendation in the alloted time, it then goes to the Judge and he signs it. The county's tend to vary on this time frame to object, I have seen many that are 21 days, however my county is only 7 days. So you should find this out before going to court. I have seen many times where someone objects to the Refs recommendation, and the Judge will agree and come up with something else. Matter of fact, I have seen more often then not, the Judge decide something different then the Ref has. Don't know it could just be the cases I have seen, but it is worth a shot if you don't like the Refs recommendation. It only costs you an extra day in court, no fee to file an objection.