She gave her to me AGAIN!

[wallyworld]

Some of you old timers remember me beginning 5 years ago when my ex gave me our daughter (IM IN IL, They were in FL) because "she had other things she wanted to get done with her life".  My daughter told me of abuse I filed in court.  Well my lawyer messed up daughter only lived her 5 not 6 months so ex got her back (ex answered order because she and her parents were upset about the abuse allegations).  THen they (ex and her parents) kept my daughter from me for approx. 2 years during court proceedings in FL (mainly to raise my c hild support).  WEll in 2005 I thought all was done.  12000 dollars later 3 different attorneys FINALLY we were totally done with all court and I ended up in a pretty good position.  LIberal visitation (all summer Splitting all major holidays and breaks) and child support was actually a fair amount!

Well guess what?  After all the thousands spent my ex has gotten PG and married the guy.  He HATES my daughter.  So you guess it.  During my xmas visitation she MOVED from Tampa FL to NY without tell anyone (including our daughter) and has asked me to keep her (again for an undetermined amount of time.)

SHe was suppopsed to sign an agreement for custody to me, but is since backing out.  (she's still getting child support from me ).  She wants to still have our daughter as a pawn against me.  So legally she won't do it.  FOr summer my daugher really wants to visit her mother and maternal family.  So she will, BUT summer starts at her only living in IL for 5 months AGAIN so if ex decided to keep her she could.  

But i still cannot believe I have her, AGAIN.

What would you do?

[mistoffolees]

Do you have joint legal custody? If so, I'd probably be tempted to keep the daughter until the 6 months was up and then let her visit toward the end of the summer. If you play your cards right, you could simply say that August is a better time for her to visit NY so you'll plan to send her in August. If the mother has legal custody, you don't have much choice - you have to give the daughter back when she asks.

Even if you have joint legal custody, you're going to want to discuss this with your lawyer before doing anything.  There's too much at state to rely on my opinion or any other advice from someone who's not legally representing you.

[Sunshine1]

Stall Stall Stall!!!  Get her in swimming lessons, soccer, a play, anything during those critical months so she has been there long enough.  I would send her for a determined amount of time, just in time for school to start when she gets back.  I would maybe try finding out when school starts in the BM's state and have her visit when it isn't anywhere close to starting.

If the Sdad hates the child, he isn't going to want her there for very long anyway.

I also wouldn't mention a lick about keeping her or changing custody until she gets back from the visitation.

GET A BETTER ATTORNEY THIS TIME!!!!

[Kitty C.]

I agree with the 2 previous posters.  It sounds like your CO ONLY addresses YOUR summer vacation tome, but not HERS.  Meaning I think it would be up to you as to when you could send your daughter.  So if you got her in December, wait to send her in July WITH a confirmed round-trip ticket.  But I would also strongly recommend going over all this with an atty. as well.  

[HelpingHands]

MOST IMPORTANTLY I would get with an attorney, post to socrateaser and get all your ducks in a row.

Just my thoughts here:

Dad's court order states he gets the child for x amount of time during the summer, right?

Not to be too sneaky, but technically, wouldn't DAD have the legal authority to keep the DD during the summer, 'to exercise his court ordered visitation' if mom tried anything to keep her? Dad could keep the child long enough into the summer  to get past the 6 months needed to change jurisidiction and file for change of custody. (school activities, summer vacation with family, friends, etc)

 Also, since neither parent nor the child are living in the state of Florida, Florida should relinquish jurisdiction to the state the child has been living in (dad's state).

Mom hasn't met her 6 month residency requirement in her new state. At the end of the 6 months, child will have lived with dad in their new state, mom in her new state without child. Child will have no significant ties with mom's new state.


It's possible you may be able to file an Ex Parte hearing for custody based on the fact that mom 'abandoned' the child with you, hasn't picked the child up and has moved from their home into another state without notification to the court, child or other parent.

If you move forward, I would also go to the Child Support office and show them proof of the child living with you (via school records) and have child support stopped.

[Kitty C.]

Definitely pose this to Soc.  If the BM has abandoned even the state that currently holds jurisdiction, it's very possible that you would have firmer ground to stand on about this, Wally.  Definitely get this checked out thoroughly!

[Davy]

Interstate custody cases are a cash cow for attorneys and courts all at the further endangerment to children.  

A reading of each state's UCCJA and the federal PKPA statue should clearly reveal that FLORIDA HAS LOST JURISDICTION since no party (mom/dad) continues to reside in the state.  However, the Federal court
tends to make decisions on the rule of law (actual statues) while state courts base decisions on an inept social policy.  

For example, in my case, a Federal court ruled (15 minute hearing)  all IL proceedings halted and the children returned to the TX home state.  Of course, the TX court in a 5 minute hearing changed temporary CP from dad to mom without cause and ordered the children returned to IL.
Previously, the TX court urged permanent CP to dad by default while children resided in IL.   The only matter maintaining TX jurisdiction was my TX residency.   Once I left TX and gained IL residency (90 days) the TX absolutely lost jurisdiction and the kidnapping haven state legally gained jurisdiction since the children had been there 30 months by that time.  Almost immediately, dad received defacto custody in IL and subsequently returned the children to TX 1.5 years later.  

As you know, the 6 month rule only pertains to the residency of the child.  The sentence in the legal statues  is followed by "AND's" and "OR's" ... not a period.  

If I were you, I would try to ascertain mama's NY residency (length of time, checking account, lease, etc) but just as icing on the cake before TELLING an IL attorney to TELL the IL court to provide you as the responsible, loving, nuturing custodial parent.  There is no neeed to provide FL with any notification but the IL court may want to do that by phone (provisional in the statues) as a matter of respect.  If the IL state court/attorney fails to function to PROTECT YOUR CHILD then go read the statues to a federal judge using the PKPA as a basis.

I would not allow the child to visit in NY or FL until she is of age since either state is likely to claim jurisdiction merely on the child's presence in the state irregardles of how many months the child has resided anywhere else.  

You have done fairly well to this point ... do no give-in.

[MixedBag]

I too would encourage you to be careful about sending her to NY based on your previous experiences that you have shared with everyone here.

You have a court order that says your daughter gets summers with you.  I believe that's gonna be your leverage in keeping her over the summer.

I also want to encourage tons of contact via other methods between the mom and the child so that when you do walk into a courtroom, the mom and child can't say "we haven't been able to speak to each other".

Jurisdiction is FL for permanent changes until the child hits that 6 months.  I would even argue that it can't be NY until the child has been there for 6 months.

So it's best to lay low until the child is with you in IL for 6 months.

And don't send her until Mom provides accurate and verifiable address and I say that because of her history of disappearing in FL all over the panhandle....

[wallyworld]

Thanks all for your advice....  I posted on Soc.  He said to do an ex parte hearing in IL based on the fact that mom "abondoned" her when she left FL to live in NY without telling anyone.  Then FL will automatically relinquish juris. AND IL will get the jurisdiction because it is where she lives.  I also think that because my daughter has moved 15 (not exaggerating) times in the last 5 years and has attended almost 10 schools during that time and I have NEVER moved ONCE during that same time  that will help my case.  And the fact that this is the 3rd time she has "given" my daughter up.  (twice to me, once to her parents ((after she asked me first, but then backed out because her parents through a fit--I coudn't prove that my ex wasn't living there too)

So I called STBX she said she would talk about the agreement later so I told her that I have a date with an attorney Monday.  She was like about what?  I said to see where everthing is going at this point.  She said she'd call me sunday then.  Anything I should say to ex when she calls?

[mistoffolees]

I don't think I'd tell her anything. You want to get things filed with the court before she has a chance to respond. In fact, I wouldn't have even told her I was seeing an attorney.

Get your ex parte hearing scheduled and THEN tell her. At that point, you've got at least some protection (but my guess is that it's still limited since she's legally the custodial parent). Please talk with your attorney or Soc before taking ANY moves - even ones that might seem harmless.

[HelpingHands]

Don't show your hand to your opponent!!  ExParte hearing means 'immediate hearing without notification to the other party'

I would just keep my lips sealed from this point forward. She can come grab your daughter before you have your hearing and you will be sunk.

[Davy]

#I also want to encourage tons of contact via other methods between
#the mom and the child so that when you do walk into a courtroom, the #mom and child can't say "we haven't been able to speak to each
#other".

Apparently this child has been abandoned by the mother on at least three occassions and it may be damaging or upsetting to the child to have "tons of contact".  Dad should not prevent contact and should softly encourage contact but not let this issue become overwhelming to the child....especially so it will look good to the court.

#Jurisdiction is FL for permanent changes until the child hits that 6 #months.

This statement flys in the face of one of the prime reasons for the existence of the state and federal statues governing interstate custody issues.  Please read the actual statues.  By the way, what interest would FL have with this child when the child is being care for by a parent that never resided in FL and the only parent that substantiated their jurisdiction no linger resides in FL ... the actual language in the statue reads something like "and another state would be better suited to make determinations concernng the child".

#I would even argue that it can't be NY until the child has been there #for 6 months.

A NY judge or any other state court judge will do whatever they want
especially when there is no opposing party present to pont out their error.

#So it's best to lay low until the child is with you in IL for 6 months.

No !  Move rapidly with a firm stragety to name IL jurisdiction ...may even be a cake-walk under the circumstances.  the child's well-being can not be left in limbo just for the sake of flipping calendar pages.

[wallyworld]

She called me Sunday and told me NOT to visit the lawyer.  She said she is going to sign it and that we better not screw her over.  I wonder if she's stalling.  Although, Im guessing not because im sure she knows if I don't receive it within the week im filing in the courts.  

So hopefully it will be here soon.  

one quick question can she later change her  mind AFTER she signs on the agreed order (transfering custody to me) and then my daughter just have to go back.  If she does iwll there be a hearing and all that?  Would IL have jurisdiction at that time?

[HelpingHands]

Talk to Soc and to your attorney. I would ask your attorney before this gets too far (like tomorrow) and I'd find out if the papers she sends you are worth the paper they are written on.  Has she been trustworthy?

I think Soc answered a question a while back about changing custody and what's agreeable to both parties and what the law procedures are. You might wanna go read some of his posts....

[MixedBag]

I am not an attorney....
but like many, I have an idea.

Have (or ask) your attorney to draw up the paperwork required to be filed and do it "pro per" or as if you were pro se...(representing yourself).

That way, if she signs, the paperwork will be right.

Therefore, there's no appealing it and changing her mind.

And then let your attorney file it.

Give her a reasonable deadline (a week) and enclose a self-addressed stamped envelope for her to return it in.

And then follow through.

Actually, you could fax it to her, and have her overnight a notorized signed copy back.  Tell her you'll reimburse her for her expenses ($10!)

But heck, I'm no attorney....

[wallyworld]

I did actually have my attorney draw up the paper work so hopefully everything is a go.  It says that we agree that IL has juris. now, that custdody be transferred to me, my child support stops (retro 1.1.07), that child support on her part is reserved until she finds employmetn and must submit proper paystubs when she does (yeah right), and that I get to claim our daughter from now on every year.  AS soon as I get the signed copy I am going to scan and post it for eVERYONE to see!

[mistoffolees]

It doesn't matter what she signs - it's not enforceable until the court approves it. You have to first convince the court that they have jurisdiction (via the methods Soc suggested). Then, you can ask the court to approve the new agreement with your ex's approval. However, make sure you follow the correct procedure on this.

Until the court approves it, her signature doesn't guarantee you anything. It can be used to show what her state of mind was at that time, but she's allowed to change her mind - until you have a valid court order.

[HelpingHands]

Good luck :)

[mistoffolees]

CAREFUL!!!!

You're not done when you get a signed copy. You have to submit it to the court and get approval from the court before it's really enforceable.

I had a similar situation. My wife signed an agreement on custody which was witnessed by both attorneys. She later decided that she had changed her mind and wanted to sue for custody. There's nothing to stop her.

If it's not approved by the court, it's not going to protect you.

As for the paystubs, you can actually impute income to her (more accurately, the court can). They figure that anyone who is capable of working can get minimum wage, so you can use that as her income. It won't get you much, but it will get your support order on record. In rare cases you can impute a higher level. For example, my stbx is a RN with lots of experience. RNs are in such demand that they can get a job on a moment's notice almost anywhere, so it would be possible to impute a higher income. That's pretty unusual, though.

Good luck.

[krazyfamily_6]

 
>
>one quick question can she later change her  mind AFTER she
>signs on the agreed order (transfering custody to me) and then
>my daughter just have to go back.  If she does iwll there be a
>hearing and all that?  Would IL have jurisdiction at that
>time?



~ I don't know about the laws in your state but my son's mother and I went into an agreement.......drafted up by my attorney and both of us signed.  We filed it in the court on Aug 1 2006 and it sat on the judge's desk for over 2 months.  BM got upset about something that didn't go exactly her way and called the courthouse and was able to "revoke" her signature from the agreement.  The judge then set the motion for a hearing.  I would be careful.........