DD stealing medical records

[backwardsbike]

I am a NCM.  I have two NC kids- son almost 18 and DD who is 14.  PAS is huge in my case.  i only see them EOW and half of summers/hoildays.

I am remarried adn my Dh has several health concerns.  We have two children who are our bio kids and live here, with us full time. Dh had a bit of a past about ten years ago but is much better off now.  He is however X's scapegoat for why our marriage failed and his history is a constant source of various examinations by psychologists, custody evalautors adn now a new GAL the judge appointed in our case.

My NC kids have been put in the middle so badly that our relationship has suffered terribly but they both claim they do not want to stop visits.

Last week end after they left my husband found a one inch thinck file of his past medical records under my DD's mattress!  Nothing the courts don't already know about, just eds perscribed, discharge dates and some notes he wrote himself while he was hosipilatized- again nothing to cause any exparte hearings.

We fel horribly violated.  These kids do thier dad's bidding without thinking while protesting that they love me. ihave ben open with them about my Dh's history and am willing to discuss things with them but they never ask and if I do bring things up they don't want to discuss them.

I wouldlove to think the records were putt here by DD so she could do "research " on her own to better understand DH, but deep down I know it is probably more nefarious than that.

Advice please.  I see my children on Tuesday and am seriously considereing suspending visits but k ow that I'll never get them back if I do that.  I have requested counsleing wihtthe kids for years but they claim they don't want to go and they judge says they shouldn't need ot do what they don't want to do.  The GAL thinks the kids are great and I'm nuts.  I am torn, angry and really at loose ends over this.

[Jade]

>I am a NCM.  I have two NC kids- son almost 18 and DD who is
>14.  PAS is huge in my case.  i only see them EOW and half of
>summers/hoildays.
>
>I am remarried adn my Dh has several health concerns.  We have
>two children who are our bio kids and live here, with us full
>time. Dh had a bit of a past about ten years ago but is much
>better off now.  He is however X's scapegoat for why our
>marriage failed and his history is a constant source of
>various examinations by psychologists, custody evalautors adn
>now a new GAL the judge appointed in our case.
>
>My NC kids have been put in the middle so badly that our
>relationship has suffered terribly but they both claim they do
>not want to stop visits.
>
>Last week end after they left my husband found a one inch
>thinck file of his past medical records under my DD's
>mattress!  Nothing the courts don't already know about, just
>eds perscribed, discharge dates and some notes he wrote
>himself while he was hosipilatized- again nothing to cause any
>exparte hearings.
>
>We fel horribly violated.  These kids do thier dad's bidding
>without thinking while protesting that they love me. ihave ben
>open with them about my Dh's history and am willing to discuss
>things with them but they never ask and if I do bring things
>up they don't want to discuss them.
>
>I wouldlove to think the records were putt here by DD so she
>could do "research " on her own to better understand DH, but
>deep down I know it is probably more nefarious than that.
>
>Advice please.  I see my children on Tuesday and am seriously
>considereing suspending visits but k ow that I'll never get
>them back if I do that.  I have requested counsleing wihtthe
>kids for years but they claim they don't want to go and they
>judge says they shouldn't need ot do what they don't want to
>do.  The GAL thinks the kids are great and I'm nuts.  I am
>torn, angry and really at loose ends over this.

I wouldn't suspend visits.  But I would put all important paperwork in a safe deposit box and don't let your kids be alone in the house.

[backwardsbike]

We have used a five drawer LOCKING flie cabinet for the last six years!  Just so happens, this stuff was put aside adn laid around for probably quite a while.  I guess it didn't seem important til we found it under her bed, KWIM?

What would you do when you saw her the next time if it was your DD?

[jilly]

I'd beat her a$$ for violating my privacy.  That is not acceptable and I'd tell her so.

[mistoffolees]

>We have used a five drawer LOCKING flie cabinet for the last
>six years!  Just so happens, this stuff was put aside adn laid
>around for probably quite a while.  I guess it didn't seem
>important til we found it under her bed, KWIM?
>
>What would you do when you saw her the next time if it was
>your DD?


You need to do a better job of keeping things locked up. Get a safe if you have to.

But that doesn't address the issue - it only helps to keep her away from temptation. You need to have a talk with her about privacy. I would NOT assume that anything nefarious is going on (it may be, but don't assume it). I would treat it simply as a violation of your and your husband's privacy.  Basically, treat it the same way as if she was taking your financial records rather than medical records. It's just plain none of her business.

At 14, she's old enough to know better, but she's apparently never been given limits. Time to start setting limits now. Pick up a book called "Boundaries" by Drs. Cloud and Townsend. There are plenty of others on the same topic, but it looks like you need to start working on defining and enforcing boundaries. The fact that you'd consider suspending visits on this basis indicates that you need to work on your own boundaries, as well.

Good luck.

[backwardsbike]

Misopheles-

I don't have an issue with boundaries.  My issue lies with the fact that there is such a level of PAS in my case that if I try to set appropriate limits with the NC kids I am called in to the judge's chambers or the GAL's office for a reprimand.  I have begged for counseling which would allow me to address these issues in the presence of a neutral third party who could see, and if need be testify, that what I am doing and the limits I am setting are appropriate.  However, the children do not want that and neither does thier AP father who controls them like puppets on a string.  No matter what I do, I pay dearly for it.  My children lie without batting an eyelash to whomever they need to to keep things as they are.

When my Dh caught my DD pushing our six year old down the stairs he came and got me right away and I punished my DD by saying she had lost the priviledge of going to her friend's house.  The GAL was emailed, facts were twisted, and it became about my husband not liking my DD and me beleiving him over her and about how I love my husband and new children more than the NCkids.

Everytime I get any professional to see what's going on my X succeds in getting that person out of the picture by saying they are biased. His word is all it takes.  My word is never accepted even though he has been caught in lie upon lie and I have never lied.

I would consider suspending visits becasue I have been put in the position of having NO parental authority, whatsoever.  That doesn't have to do with me- that has to do with what has gone on in this case for the last ten years.

I strongly suspect that you haven't been placed in a similar situation.  For your information, I am a certifed parent educator, a nurse and a master's candidate in counseling.  Sometimes things really do happen over which we have no control.  In those cases, sometimes it seems prudent to minimize the damge that is being done to everyone involved.

I was simply asking for advice becasue I had hoped someone on this board may have had similar experiences or insight that they'd be willing to share.

[backwardsbike]

Thank you.  While I amy feel like "beating her a$$" I'd never do it.  DOn't beleive in it.  We havehad talk upon talk about privacy.  Unfortuantely in my sitch, communication has become like that game where each player has a bord the other cannot see and theyhide ships on it and each player calls outthe cordinates until one says "You sank my battleship".  Everythingin my case is done behind cloed doors.  Nobody speaks openly to anyone about anyhtiing.  this is my X's preference.  he doesn't wish to communicate with me in any form and the judge doesn't feel he shouldhave to.  if I have concerns my only recourse is to talk to my lawyer at $100 an hour.

If I punish the children or say or do somehting they don't like they make up all kinds of stories aobut me adn tell the judge, thier father's lawyer and now, thier very own GAL.

[mistoffolees]

>
>I was simply asking for advice becasue I had hoped someone on
>this board may have had similar experiences or insight that
>they'd be willing to share.


I gave you advice. You can choose to ignore it and get hostile if you wish. It doesn't bother me.

And if you'd read the book I recommended, you'd see that there are two major types of boundary issues. One involves not knowing how to react when others invade your boundaries. The fact that you asked what you should do is the reason I suggested that you would benefit from the book.

And, yes, I've been in a similar situation. My stbx has done things that would make your hair curl. I just don't think it's particularly relevant. I gave the advice I thought you wer asking for. No one can make you listen. But if you're not going to listen to the advice you're given, you might want to save yourself some time and not bother asking.

[Jade]

>We have used a five drawer LOCKING flie cabinet for the last
>six years!  Just so happens, this stuff was put aside adn laid
>around for probably quite a while.  I guess it didn't seem
>important til we found it under her bed, KWIM?
>
>What would you do when you saw her the next time if it was
>your DD?


I don't know.  The other parent has already put her in the middle by asking her to snoop.  She will only get defensive if you confront her.  

I might take her out to lunch (without the stepparent) and calmly discuss it with her without placing any type of blame.  If she opens up about how she felt she had no choice, that is an in to start teaching her ways she can stand up for herself and not let either parent put her in the middle.  

[mistoffolees]

>I don't know.  The other parent has already put her in the
>middle by asking her to snoop.  She will only get defensive if
>you confront her.  
>

Be careful about jumping to conclusions.

One of the worst things you can do is assume that someone is guilty until proven innocent.

While she may be snooping for BM, there's nothing in the original post that would lead to that conclusion. In fact, the OP admits that this is pure speculation.

[Sunshine1]

She is too old to beat and send a message through her head.  These kids are too old, and you are taking quite a beating yourself from them.  

My feelings are... I wouldn't say a word.  I would lock up all my stuff, and keep on living my life.  She is obviously going to know she is busted by removing the evidence from her room.  At this point what else is there to do that isn't going to cost you another arm and a leg?  I don't mean to sound like negative Nelly here, but you can't trust them. From this day forward you must act like the BF is coming to stay at your house and be on the defensive.  Horrible way to live but they are sent out to do this stuff from their Dad.  They have been programmed to do and say all this stuff and there isn't a court order, therapist, or judge alive that is going to stop this madness.

This is not your doing and sadly when they are grown and out from under the wicked Bio- Father's spell, then and only then are you going to be able to sit them down and tell them how this has effected you and your family.  They will be able to hear you when they don't have him to report back to.

[escape2paradise]

Hang in there!  I am dealing with something similar with my 13 yr old.  

I get my hope from my aunt.  She went through the same thing with her kids when they were younger.  Severe PAS!  She has three kids and each one as they got older and away from their dad, realized  what what was going on.  They each came around and now not one of them has anything to do with their dad.  They are madder than He$$ that he deprived them of a normal relationship with their mom.  

Love your daughter, she will figure it out someday.  It's a bummer in the meantime, but don't cut her off.  Someday you will have that mother daughter relationship that you long for and when she's ready, you want her to know that you are there.

[Jade]

>
>>I don't know.  The other parent has already put her in the
>>middle by asking her to snoop.  She will only get defensive
>if
>>you confront her.  
>>
>
>Be careful about jumping to conclusions.
>
>One of the worst things you can do is assume that someone is
>guilty until proven innocent.
>
>While she may be snooping for BM, there's nothing in the
>original post that would lead to that conclusion. In fact, the
>OP admits that this is pure speculation.

BM?  The original poster is the non-custodial MOTHER.  

If she is snooping, she is doing so for the custodial FATHER.  

[backwardsbike]

Jade, Sunshine, and Escape to Paradise-

Thank you all so much for your response.

I appreciate that you took the time to offer feedback and share your expereinces with me.  I am seeing my NC kids this evening.  To be honest- I am still a little leery about what I'm going to do.

Cutting off visits wasn't something I ws thinking of doing in my own best interests- it just seemed like possibly the best thing I could do for my daughter given the fact that I have no aprental authority, cannot get any help via counsleing, and it surely must be damaging for her to be constantly put in the middle like this.  It seemed a way to perhaps remove the middle.  I am remined of the parable where King Solomon decided to cut the child in half when the two women couldn't agree on which was the mother.  When one woman said, give te child to the other, the wise king knew that that was the real mother because she was willing to forgo any part of the baby just to keep him alive.  The other woman didn't care- she just wanted her "share"  even if the baby ended up dead.

There were things in those records that may have caused my DD to be afraid.  Things children shouldn't understand.  But I feel I must talk with her about what she read.  What is hard for me is not knowing what the kids think or have been told.  Another reaosn couseling would be so helpful, but the powers that be don't see it that way.  The GAL has told me that I am on my own with regrds to the children's relationships with me.  So then, I guess that I am and will handle this in the same open way that I handle everything else.

I don't think a harsh cofrontation will help and whomever said it would raise her defensiveness is most likely right.  But there are ways to convey that I am not happy with this invasion of privacy without being harshly confrontational and I think I will need to employ them now.

Again, thank you three for your help.  I use these boards, as well as others, as a sounding board.  Unlike some, I can admit that I don't always know immediately what is right or that perhaps, I'm not seeing the whole picture.  I've always thought of it as a sign of strength, but that's just my humble opinion.  So I have appreciated your input with for , what to me, has been a huge and hurtful problem.  Thanks again!

[mistoffolees]

OK, sorry, I got it backwards because I didn't go back and check.

The point is that the stuff about spying for the other parent is just conjecture. It's a bad idea to just assume that the other parent is involved.

[mistoffolees]

>Jade, Sunshine, and Escape to Paradise-
>
>Thank you all so much for your response.
>
>Again, thank you three for your help.  I use these boards, as
>well as others, as a sounding board.  


I think it's rather funny when someone is so obvious about asking for advice and then immediately discarding the half they don't like.

[backwardsbike]

I didn't discard the "half" I didn't like.  I discarded the one piece, that after very careful reflection, I felt didn't fit.  Actually, I found three people's advice very helpful, and just one tiny piece of your orginal post , the part that sure seemed like a dig, not helpful.   But one would now have to wonder about YOUR boundaries because after YOUR opinion, not your advice, was discarded you are still harping on it.  This seems to say so much more about you than it does about me or my situation.  

[mistoffolees]

>I didn't discard the "half" I didn't like.  I discarded the
>one piece, that after very careful reflection, I felt didn't
>fit.  Actually, I found three people's advice very helpful,
>and just one tiny piece of your orginal post , the part that
>sure seemed like a dig, not helpful.   But one would now have
>to wonder about YOUR boundaries because after YOUR opinion,
>not your advice, was discarded you are still harping on it.
>This seems to say so much more about you than it does about me
>or my situation.  


ROTFLMAO.

Let's pretend for a moment that you're right and you really did consider my advice and it wasn't helpful to you. Wouldn't a person who was really open to suggestions thank EVERYONE who provided advice and not just those who agreed with them? After all, wouldn't a rational response be to say "thanks to everyone who provided advice - I found a lot of useful information" rather than "thanks to the people who provided me with advice that I liked and can use without putting out any effort"?

It's also rather telling that you would consider my advice a 'dig' - even after I explained that it wasn't. My book was intended to help everyone having trouble dealing with boundary issues (including, as I stated, those who are looking for advice in how to deal with others who have boundary issues). There's absolutely nothing there that could be interpreted as a 'dig'.

Don't worry - it doesn't bother me a bit that you chose to ignore the advice on reading a bit about boundaries since the girl obviously has an issue. I just think it's funny that you do so - and then pretend that your closed mind is a virtue.

[forthekids24]

I would take the file, lock it up and leave a note in its place under the bed explaining that if she has any questions, to come ask!

Good luck!
FTK

[backwardsbike]

In my post, I mentioned that the ONLY part of your post that I found to not be helpful was your OPINION: That I had some sort of boundary issues.  I thought the part about the book was great.  Where the advice stopped and the opinion/dig began was when you suggested that suspending a visit over  something which you obviously feel was so minor that it could be handled by reading a book was somehow not what you considered to be "healthy".

The other posters that I thanked for input gave me just that-input. In the future, on this board i wll be much more careful about my choice of words.  Like the author says...Women are from Venus, men are from Mars.

Can we consider the hatchet to be buried?  I never meant to offend you.  And I'll tell you what, I'll even let you have the last word.

[mistoffolees]

>In my post, I mentioned that the ONLY part of your post that
>I found to not be helpful was your OPINION: That I had some
>sort of boundary issues.  I thought the part about the book
>was great.  Where the advice stopped and the opinion/dig began

Really?

Here's your entire response:
"Misopheles-

I don't have an issue with boundaries. My issue lies with the fact that there is such a level of PAS in my case that if I try to set appropriate limits with the NC kids I am called in to the judge's chambers or the GAL's office for a reprimand. I have begged for counseling which would allow me to address these issues in the presence of a neutral third party who could see, and if need be testify, that what I am doing and the limits I am setting are appropriate. However, the children do not want that and neither does thier AP father who controls them like puppets on a string. No matter what I do, I pay dearly for it. My children lie without batting an eyelash to whomever they need to to keep things as they are.

When my Dh caught my DD pushing our six year old down the stairs he came and got me right away and I punished my DD by saying she had lost the priviledge of going to her friend's house. The GAL was emailed, facts were twisted, and it became about my husband not liking my DD and me beleiving him over her and about how I love my husband and new children more than the NCkids.

Everytime I get any professional to see what's going on my X succeds in getting that person out of the picture by saying they are biased. His word is all it takes. My word is never accepted even though he has been caught in lie upon lie and I have never lied.

I would consider suspending visits becasue I have been put in the position of having NO parental authority, whatsoever. That doesn't have to do with me- that has to do with what has gone on in this case for the last ten years.

I strongly suspect that you haven't been placed in a similar situation. For your information, I am a certifed parent educator, a nurse and a master's candidate in counseling. Sometimes things really do happen over which we have no control. In those cases, sometimes it seems prudent to minimize the damge that is being done to everyone involved.

I was simply asking for advice becasue I had hoped someone on this board may have had similar experiences or insight that they'd be willing to share."

Where is the part about my comments being healthy? Oh, wait. It's not there - you're making it up.

>was when you suggested that suspending a visit over  something
>which you obviously feel was so minor that it could be handled
>by reading a book was somehow not what you considered to be
>"healthy".

Where did I say it was minor? I said that it was a boundary issue - but never said anywhere whether it was minor or not. In fact, I specifically stated that you needed to take action. Since you were apparently unwilling or unable to seek professional help, I suggested the book.

>
>The other posters that I thanked for input gave me just
>that-input. In the future, on this board i wll be much more
>careful about my choice of words.  Like the author
>says...Women are from Venus, men are from Mars.

That's exactly what I said. The other posters (who you thanked) gave you the advice you wanted to hear.

>
>Can we consider the hatchet to be buried?  I never meant to
>offend you.  And I'll tell you what, I'll even let you have
>the last word.

If you didn't mean to offend me, perhaps you should reread your posts.

1. You asked for advice.
2. I offered advice.
3. You expressed concerns that I was saying you had a problem.
4. I clarified that my advice did not imply that you had a problem - but that people who had to deal with boundary issues would also benefit from my book
5. You said that I was attacking you.
6. You then thanked the people who fed back to you what you wanted to hear and ignored everyone else.
7. Instead of apologizing for overlooking me, you made up a story about how you said that my advice was helpful when you said no such thing.

As I said, I couldn't care less how you respond, but you asked for advice. I seriously think that if you're going to be able to deal with the stepdaughter, you need to deal with boundaries. Your response to me (trying to make the misunderstanding all my fault) only reinforces that.

I would seriously suggest that you need to learn about boundaries. Then you should explore your inability to listen to advice that you perceive as a personal attack - even when it clearly is not.