Can NCP take children out of state?

[greatdad]

NCP has no custody, only visitation.Temp order does not contain language about taking children out of state, only days,times and place to pick up and drop off. NCP is taking child out of state and say where. As sole custodian, does NCP not need my permission or at least to keep me informed as to address, length of stay etc?

[Sherry1]

out of state, but if NCP refuses to give you an itinerary with phone numbers, then I probably wouldn't allow the child to go.  

[wysiwyg]

I would be careful with this, if there is a court order for parenting time or vistiation and it is denied because you want an itinerary, then I would say that is grounds for contempt based upon a court order for vistation that was denied becasue of informaiton wanted that is not a part of a court order.  Of course in the best interest of the kids it is obvious that both parents should alert the other to the childs whereabouts - but I think I speak for all of us here in that the exs we deal with do not always think clearly when it comes to things like this.  PLease do not construe this as any sort of leagal advice, I simply say tread carefully on what is and is not ordered.  

[greatdad]

>I would be careful with this, if there is a court order for
>parenting time or vistiation and it is denied because you want
>an itinerary, then I would say that is grounds for contempt
>based upon a court order for vistation that was denied becasue
>of informaiton wanted that is not a part of a court order.  Of
>course in the best interest of the kids it is obvious that
>both parents should alert the other to the childs whereabouts
>- but I think I speak for all of us here in that the exs we
>deal with do not always think clearly when it comes to things
>like this.  PLease do not construe this as any sort of leagal
>advice, I simply say tread carefully on what is and is not
>ordered.  
 Allow me to correct  a possible miscommunication. I am not denying visitation. NCP has child now and tells me  is taking to another state but refuses to give me address . I think it will not look good for NCP in court as it shows a totally unreasonable lack of communication and ccoperation for no reason.

[Crockpot]

I believe that if the NCP does not share legal then they do need the OK of CP to take child out of state.

[mistoffolees]

> Allow me to correct  a possible miscommunication. I am not
>denying visitation. NCP has child now and tells me  is taking
>to another state but refuses to give me address . I think it
>will not look good for NCP in court as it shows a totally
>unreasonable lack of communication and ccoperation for no
>reason.


Actually, if you do what is proposed (not allowing the ncp to take the child out of state without providing an itinerary), then yoU ARE denying visitation unless the court order specifically says that you're entitled to an itinerary.

And, yes, it does look bad for the NCP, but if your state doesn't have any restrictions on travel out of state, you could still be in contempt for restricting her.

However, the question of whether that's an allowable interference remains open. Someone has suggested that (at least in some states), you would be within your rights to interfere with visitation under those circumstances. I suspect it depends not only on the law in your state, but also the practice of specific judges.

It is probably worth asking someone (an attorney for example) who knows how it works in your state.

[MixedBag]

sometimes more guidance can be found in your state's code.

Until mom doesn't bring them back, do you really have a reason to be concerned?

Do you as the CP have anything in your order to support this?

[mistoffolees]

>Until mom doesn't bring them back, do you really have a reason
>to be concerned?

That's an important element of this that is missing. If the relationship is otherwise OK and the CP doesn't feel that the risk of flight is very high, it's probably not worth messing with.

When I was dating my ex, she had two young daughters. There was a great ice cream place by a lake 20 miles away - but it happened to be in the next county. Her temporary order stated that she couldn't leave the county with the kids - which deprived them of going to this ice cream place that they loved. It would have been better in this case if her ex hadn't requested that clause or at least had it read 'can't leave the county without notifying the other party ' or something like that.

if there's no risk, don't worry about it.

[greatdad]

>>Until mom doesn't bring them back, do you really have a
>reason
>>to be concerned?
>
>That's an important element of this that is missing. If the
>relationship is otherwise OK and the CP doesn't feel that the
>risk of flight is very high, it's probably not worth messing
>with.
>
>When I was dating my ex, she had two young daughters. There
>was a great ice cream place by a lake 20 miles away - but it
>happened to be in the next county. Her temporary order stated
>that she couldn't leave the county with the kids - which
>deprived them of going to this ice cream place that they
>loved. It would have been better in this case if her ex hadn't
>requested that clause or at least had it read 'can't leave the
>county without notifying the other party ' or something like
>that.
>
>if there's no risk, don't worry about it.

We are still pendente lite, so precedent needs to be established , as we all seem to recognize that temporary has a way of becoming permanent ! While "flight" is not  a concern at present, the greater issue is that stbx must recognize that there simply are certain legal rules and level of cooperation that needs to exist if she in turn wants flexibility on my part. Remember the children are very young and she is going to want me to be flexible over the next 15 years !!! As sole custodian, asking for the address, phone # where children will be when not having visitation at her residence is not only reasonable ( conversely to not provide it is "unreasonable") but also I have a legal obligation to know their whereabouts in case of emergency as I am the sole person with decision making authority.
Lastly, I believe STBX will not stay with children at the out of state location, and will leave them in the care of others for several days. THAT is not acceptable, especially not knowing exactly who it will be, etc.
Any thoughts on whether NCP with no custody can unilateraly delegate care of the children to another without CP's approval ?

[HelpingHands]

Good question, because I am also in the same situation. NCM left our daughter in the care of her elderly great grandparents in another state for 4 days. I found only out during a phone contact- oh she's not here she's in XX state with her great grandparents till x day (4 days later).

I wrote her this letter (along with other info):

 "I ask that you please advise me PRIOR to dropping XXX off for an extended period of time(such as when you dropped XX off with your grandparents in X town, X state for 4 days). I need to have a contact phone number and address where XXX can be reached at all times. I appreciate your cooperation".

Surprisingly she DID inform me that she was planning to drop our daughter off with her parents for a few days, prior to doing so. I am sure she called her attorney who pointed out that in our court order it states that each parent must provide the other parent with emergency contact information for the child.