Help - Need Further Advice On Meeting With DH's Ex

[SallyandJack]

I need advice and possible strategy ideas from the experienced people on this site.

I have posted before and this is going to seem very inconsistent - actually it is inconsistent.  And that is because it is very difficult dealing with mental people and knowing what is best to do, which is why I need good advice.  Sorry  - this is long.

Brief Background:  My dh has a visitation agreement where he has to have a supervisor present given that fact that he is disabled.  That supervisor has always been 1 family member who is named in the order.  Anyone else needs to be agreed upon.  Upon our marriage, this family member became ill and I was the only one who could help. But his ex didn't want to agree to this right away.  She said she needed to 'get to know me'.  I was fine with that.  So we met a few times and since she couldn't find any dirt on me, she decided to lie about me.  His ex is the typical lunatic you see so many people on this site writing about - she is all about baiting, and alienating ect.  She is all about making his life difficult.  Keep in mind that she isn't trying to prevent me from seeing her child - I often go with my husband and the supervisor anyway, just to help out.  I have a healthy friendship with their child.  And I have no illusions as to who her parents are.  In fact - I don't even want this job...I am only doing this for my dh.

Anyway - not knowing quite how to deal with this, we put it on the backburner for a few months.  But in the meantime, my husband's parenting has been cut in half because the named supervisor is still ill.  He is old and probably will never be fit enough to resume the old schedule.

During this time, a few things have become clear to me.  
1st.  that my dh needs to ask the court for a better defined parenting plan
2nd. that his ex has completely emasculated him and he is going to have to step up to the plate sooner or later or risk his situation getting worse.  I cannot fight his battles for him
3rd  that my dh has made a lot of mistakes and who knows if he is ever going to be able to deal with this situation properly

Very depressing because it affects our future in a big way.

Anyway - a few weeks ago I was supposed to meet with my dhusband's ex.  I personally did not want to because I felt strongly that her reasons for meeting are malignant.  I could be the president and she will still find a reason to disagree with this new arrangement.  I had decided not to meet with her and my dh husband and his lawyer continued to beg me and said it would help his case if I met with her at least one more time out of good faith.   So in the end I relented.  

So fine...we met in a public place.  My dh, me, and her.  It was all very civil.  First 35 minutes were bs chitchat and then she started drilling me.  Did I have any history of mental illness?  When is the last time I saw my family?  Ect ect.  Stupid questions nevertheless I remained calm & professional and answered her idiotic questions as honestly & briefly as I could.  She even tried to bait me several times but she didn't get anywhere.  For example she asked me how I felt about her.  I  answered this with 'I am just anxious for you two to work out your problems' – what did she think I was going to say?...I want to be BFF? And she also said that she was concerned that I had anger issues towards her – to this I responded that I was concerned she had anger issues towards me by extension of her anger issues towards my husband.

I also told them both that they have serious issues that they are going to have to work out and I do not want to be pulled in the middle of this.  I am not the problem and I am not the solution.

So the end result of this 1.5 hr meeting went exactly how I predicted.  She still needs to meet with me at least 1 more time in order to 'determine my supervisory capacity'.  Well – lets face it...she will drag this thing out for as long as she can.

After consulting further with multiple lawyers they are saying that we have to do everything we can before going back to court.  If she wants to meet again, then do it.  This is madness in my mind because the writing is one the wall as to what the outcome of further meetings will be.  And at this point I don't want to further enable this madness.  Just go to court and be done with this one way or the other.

But - on the other hand, if & when my dh goes to court, she might look very sane telling a judge that she just 'needed to get to know me'.  And it wouldn't look good if I refused her the opportunity.  Therein lies the difficulty in dealing with this.

Someone suggested to us that if I decide to meet with her again to do it on my terms.  And my terms would be to invite her along when I am going out with a friend of mine.  What better way than to get to know me than to see me in a social situation.  And even though she is not my friend, I was nice enough to open up my personal life to her.  Of course, I wouldn't really be opening up my personal life to her.... the friend I have in mind is extremely politically savvy and would be a witness.  And since her reasons for meeting are malignant, she will most likely turn this type of opportunity down.  And if she does, then the onus would be on her for us not meeting.

The flip side of the above strategy is that she will say that she wasn't comfortable with that situation and suggested another time to which I refused.

Another thing I could do is simply tell her that I will meet with her one more time and at that point she is going to have to make a decision.  And if she cannot make a decision then the court will have to make a decision for her.  

I suppose I could do both of the above – first invite her to a social situation, and when she refuses, which she will, tell her that I will meet with her only 1 more time.

So – what does the board think aside from the obvious – which is to not allow them to drag me into their mess?  

Does anyone have any good ideas on how we could outsmart this b***tch in her own game.   Or any other thoughts?

[Peanutsdad]

My advise,, is tell your DH to grow a set.



quite simply,, him with no backbone or balls,, and her on a predatory hunt,, leaves you in a no win situation. DH has to grow up, stand up and fight for himself.

[Kimberly9]

Does your dh still need a supervisor?

I wouldn't try to get yourself named as a supervisor, but rather the court order modified to reflect unsupervised visitation.

That being said, I always error on trying to work things out anyway you possibly can without going to court.

So meet again. . . with a witness if at all possible and try to steer the meeting towards dh taking over his own parenting time.

[SallyandJack]

this is not a laughable situation but - LOL

[SallyandJack]

this is not a laughable situation but - LOL

[SallyandJack]

honestly, he does need someone while the child is young.  

and we would like to work it out as well without going to court.  it would be cheaper.  

BUT - there is no working anything out with his ex.  she is wicked.

I see court as inevitable.  But I also see the merrit in trying to make it look as though I was perfectly willing to meet.   After writing my post - and the more I think about it...I like the idea of setting a meeting on my terms.  She will never agree because it won't allow her to do what she wants.  But on my end...I come out looking good to the judge.  She wanted the favor of meeting me and getting to know me....if she couldn't make it then maybe it wasn't a priority for her.

[4honor]

And it needs to be put into the court order that way...
 ... "the father will have parenting time with the child on XX days at XX times until the child reaches XX age, so long as a child care assistant remains available at all times to aid him. No person having been tried and convcited of a felony may serve as child care assistant."... Blah blah blah.

[SallyandJack]

My dh is finally seeing the light and decided that he has to go to court  - because staying in this status quo is really only hurting his daughter.

But before his going to court I decided to offer her a final meeting (plus I was hoping to bait the bait queen) So...last Monday I  sent a lily-white email to his ex offering her a final meeting with me, which is what she asked for.  I knew she wouldn't meet.  She came back with - 'dh has to be present during our meetings'.  I asked why.  She came back with some crazy reason that I can sum up with one word - 'delay.'  I replied with ' u asked to meet me, you already know my dh, plus my dh is in the hospital (which he is for 2-3 weeks), I am giving you the opportunity to meet.  I will keep my calandar open until the 24th.  Beyond that I believe my dh's plans are to move foward.  She did not respond.  So basically I took control, and set a limit on her delaying ass.  Was there an ultimatum in there?  Sure.  But - we have no choice because she would delay indefinately and that isn't good for the child.

2 Days later I sent another lily-white email - 'just want to reiterate my invitation to meet.  It is so important that the child be able to see her father on a regular basis.  All we want is what is best for the child. (which of course is true)

She responded with an offer to meet in the hospital either Sun or Thurs for lunch. This way my dh can be present for the meeting.  Can you believe that?  Totally inappropriate.  Even after my dh called her and told her not to come to the hospital.  What a nut.  She thinks she is going to come to the hospital to manipulate my husband.  At this point, we are hoping that she does show up because it will make her look terrible when we go to court.

So I ignored this and again reiterated my offer to meet with her in a mutually convenient place Thurs for lunch and I suggested locations other than the hospital - again saying that meeting and resolving this issue as fast as possible would be in the child's best interest.

She replied with - how about Sunday at the hospital?

At this point I said, 'it is my understanding as per a vm my husband left you that his express wish is that you do not come to the hospital at all.  And I once again reiterated my offer to meet with her in a mutually convenient place.

I accomplished what I wanted and more.  She can never say to the judge that I refused to meet. I was pro-active and nice.  Plus, now I self-serving emails that prove what she has been doing all along.  If she decides she wants to meet, I am perfectly ready to do so.  But the 24th is the strike date...no meeting...no decision....my dh will file the motion

time to get the certifications ready

[SallyandJack]

very good suggestion - thank you

[nosonew]

What will it look like for dh to refuse the offer to meet with him present?  I understand he is hospitalized, and thus, you need to have info to state that "the additional stress of meeting with ex is not in his best interest regarding current health issues" or something like that.  Wouldn't hurt if you had a note on letterhead from the doctor.   Depending on his illness, it may also work outside of hospitalization. (just a thought!)

However, if stress does not interfere with whatever the problem is with your dh (I don't remember seeing what his illness is), then the courts may look at that in a negative light.

I am only writing this to have you look at this other possible option for the court to may at.  Be sure to have all bases covered!  Good luck!

[SallyandJack]

good point but we met with her together on April 30th.  so it isn't that he is refusing to meet with her generally but while he is in the hospital it is completely inappropriate. she is not a friend...in fact everything she has done has been adversarial towards him.  so why in the world should she come to the hospital?   i don't know if we can get a doctors note, i'll keep it in mind.  he has MS and stress is not good for him.  there must be some asshole judges out there to have to cya on something that is just common sense.

but thanks for the idea, i will definately keep it under advisement.  also, I have already drafted a certification for court where I mentioned that it is almost certain that the stress of this situation has had a negative impact on his condition.  and now that I think of it, he is seeing a therapist while he is in the hospital...one who deals with neurological diseases...I will definately mention this idea.

[nosonew]

Glad to hear it!  I would think your docs would be willing to write something up, stress isn't good for most illnesses, and I would think MS would be one that is a no-brainer.  Kudo's to you for helping out, I know it's not easy! Sounds like one lucky guy!

[SallyandJack]

thank you again.  

this thing has been taking over our lives.  I just want it to end.  even though i don't want to be involved I have to do what I can before I give up.

[Kitty C.]

Don't rule it out quite yet.  If it is proven that stress can increase the severity of MS symptoms, you CAN still get a letter from the doctor stating as such.  So he has met with her outside the hospital, it really makes his subsequent hospitalization PROVE that point!  Just a general letter from his primary MD eluding that he needs to significantly reduce the stress in his life would go a long ways.

Then your atty. can reiterate in court that the ONLY way for the stress to be reduced is for them both to get along for the sake of their child and that he has constant and continuous contact.

As far as it ending, don't go looking for that light at the end of the tunnel yet.  This can even go on well after kids graduate and live on their own.  Especially when you're talking about situations where the daughter wants Daddy to walk her down the aisle and the BM pitches a fit and refuses to attend.  Happens more often than you think!

[SallyandJack]

yes - we will definately be getting notes from the doctors.  It is a very good idea - I am not ruling it out at all.

And I know that there will always be problems, unfortunately.  His ex likes to boil pots and she is a terrible bully.  But unless my husband gets over this first hurdle sucessfully,  he will never be able to deal with those future problems.  And I can only do so much...the rest will be up to him.

[SallyandJack]

i just spoke with his doctor and she will do a note.  :-)

[nosonew]

Yippeee!  I'm a nurse, or wouldn't have thought of it!  Good luck, keep us posted!

[SallyandJack]

yes, thank you.

u know, we aren't even asking for full custody.  my husband simply wants to see his child without these continual hindrances.

you would think that this woman would choose her fights more wisely. i am so sick of these crazy ex's.  I don't know what I would have done if I hadn't found this board as an outlet.  plus, we were totally unequipped with how to handle this.  i have learned so much sinced I joined here.

[gipsy]

Sometimes atty's don't tell you the obvious , Read the parenting plan ,  I Won't go get Mine so I can quote it, But, there is a section On dispute resolution , And basically thats what the court puts in there and what they want you to do before coming back before the judge , What ever you do , Read that first , Here is basically what Mine looks like . And what you do, And what I did,
    Section whatever parenting plan
       : dispute resolution
    1 if the parties dispute any issue , the process for dispute must be complete before returning to court ,
    That the moving party ,apply for Dispute resolution process at
   Pierce county center for dispute resolution
      If: One party refuses  to participate or is deemed to frustrate the  
  The process, that party will pay the  other parties atty fees .
   If no resolution to the problem then a report must be filed with the court before returning to the court ,,
   
    What happened to me , The mother was pulling all the similar crappola , SSOOOOO , what the center for dipute resolution does is . Sends A copy to You and the other party That says , XXX party did not respond ,
   If  You don't reach an agreement at resolution , they send a report that say's parties did not reach an agreement ,
   Soo it doesn't say much About whom did what ,
    BUT !!!! the best thing was that the psycho did not respond , So Thats when  My atty set a  court date , And it makes her look stupid for not going by the courts process , And Like there are only so many arguments that atty's have , I Will basically garuntee that Your atty will file the paper that say's she did not attend , And say that , My client now has to ask the court to settle the issue , and the court will be very likely to let you be the supervisor ,
    Also this is all a simple process , In Wash state , Your atty should just go File ,  a MODIFICATION OF THE PARENTING PLAN .Naming a couple of supervisor's  and  MOTION TO APPOINT A GUARDIAN AD LITEM . ,that way if psycho disagree's , then the GAL just will talk to her and you and your witnesses that will say you are a member of the community in good standing , And the GAL will look at the situation and  if GAL say's That you can be the supervisor or not and I suggest You ask for several people to be back up supervisor's . As to not have to go through this process again ,,And In WASH STATE , the guardian ad litem then will report this to the judge ,  If YOU keep your cool and just follow the courts process , then You should win , the best thing you can do is let her pull all this shit and do what Your atty advises , KEEP COOL , The worst things I did was to react , the problem then becomes ,, The judge can't decipher who's the culprit . Let her be difficult, you be the martyr , As I Have written before , I wonder what would have happend in my case if I would have just went on with my case and kept my nose clean , The BIG BIG problem with these types is that IF you do anything they will exploit it to such a degree that it is unrecognizeable , KEEEP COOOOL!!!! And do what Your atty say's, ask the atty what the parenting plan say's you are to do with disputes or, read the plan your self , Then call the atty and Talk about the process that I have laid out before you .
   I had all the similar BS , And had to use this process , For the most part I did ok , You just want the system to get the Idea that You are a good parent , and so is your hubby , It's very hard to keep your mouth to a minimum about what a jackass the other parent is , BUT Listen to this , Let the system figure it out . If you bitch about the other person they see it as a personal issue , I went throught the whole process , And it didn't really matter to them at all ,except  they saw it all as conflict , Unless there is something proveabley wrong with the psycho , then leave it out , Just be the good person and say , We want visits and I have met with her , She was a bit challenging . And I had enough so I will let the court take care of this issue , [OF COURSE ] talk to your atty , But let me give you  the best example
      Went to court because psycho wouldn't let me see my son very much and she wouldn't go to dispute resolution
   Here's the play In the actors guild
       My atty :: Iv'e brought this motion and parenting plan to the court so MR XXX Can see his son more often , the mother is making allegations And there is a GAL report ,
      Her ATTY : BLAH BLAH BLAH , Bad father BLAH

     Commissioner Dicke:     Looks down reads the GAL report , ( wich say's) Basically MR XXX Can see his Son , I talked to his  witnesses they were his nieghbors and checked police reports there Is nothing to substantiate the mothers allegations
     Commissioner Dicke : What's The dad saying ,
     My atty" Dad says he wants to see his son "
       Commissioner Dicke ; Smiles at Me
     Commissioner Dicke , What the Mom saying again
    Her asshole atty: BLAH BLAH
     Commissioner Dicke ; Looks away from her atty at Mine ; What does the DAd want .
 I said what I want for visits ,They decided right there based on My schedule and ability to see my son , And I got the visits ,
   I know this is a long post , But I see peoples turmoil . And I have been through this Ball busting system , And the deal is they do it this way so Because the judges and commissioners have better things to do than deal with visittation issues so they ship the home work assignment out to the GAL , And the GAL reports and thats the end of it , So unlees theres a reason the GAl finds that You cannot be the supervisor , Like you are a Pedophile or physically unable then that will be the end of it , I know the frustration of this , But don't let it get you down , Just Use the process , And be the good one and thats all folks ,
  And By the way My sickos allegations ranged from pedophilia to domestic violence , to smoking around the child to ad infinitum , the court is use to this crap its day in and day out , I think they ar so use to it that , In my opinion they overlook a few things , the court generally knows difficult jerkS and allegations are justa disease of the legal system ,
     

[SallyandJack]

gipsy

I have followed your posts carefully and your are the one who made me realize that my dh needs a more defined parenting plan.  I commend you for what you did and I appreciate what you say 100%.  In fact, what you have said in your previous posts have helped me more than any other posts out there.

That being said, my dh has no clause in his parenting plan as to dispute resolution.  Maybe this is because we are in different states.

We are going to court...unfortunately it is the only way.  We have been nothing but nice during this situation.  And my husband is a very good father.  He has religously visited his daughter over the past three years and there are plenty of things he can say to attest to their special bond.

But again, god bless you.  Your experience is definately a testiment and again, I have drawn wisdom from what you have posted.  thank you