Visitation seems to be going well, but...

[stressedstepmom]

We got the boys on Sunday morning, left to come home with them Sunday evening. At first OSS was moody, but nothing major (he is 13 after all). YSS who is 12 was having fun from the moment he arrived. The problem I am having is that BM sent a cell phone with OSS. Communication has never been a problem on our end, BM is the one who always avoids DHs phone calls. The cell phone wouldn't be a big deal, but BM called twice in the first 2 hours we had the boys and OSS called her a couple of times.  So DH and I decided once we got home we would have a talk with OSS about the phone and tell him that we don't mind it but we also aren't going to allow it to be abused. This is DHs time after all, and if the tables were turned and we were calling every hour then she would come after us for harrasment. Once we got home though we never had a problem so we decided not to talk to OSS about it. He just leaves the phone lying around and turned off. Then I noticed that he would turn it on and see if he had any messages but if anyone was around he wouldn't check his messages. I figured that BM was using OSS to gather information for our upcoming court date (although I have no idea what information it could actually be). So of course I had to get nosey (and I felt really bad about it but I felt we had to know). When everyone went out earlier I turned his phone on and checked his messages.  There were 4 messages (this is only their 4th day with us). The first message though made my blood boil and now I don't know what to do. She is reciting a poem to the boys and then she starts crying. She tells them all kinds of things like don't forget me, I don't know how I will make it 6 weeks without you, I hate you being there, I am so scared for you, I am sorry you had to go (she took DH to court to try and stop visitation with no reason to do so) and she just goes on and on crying the whole time of course. The other messages are similar but not as bad. Just her sounding extremely sad and worried that my DH is going to hurt them or something.  These boys have been spending summer visitation with their father for 7 years now, so this is nothing new for her. But I am so pissed off, everything could be going great and then what if OSS checks his messages and then starts feeling guilty for having a good time? Geez no wonder the boy is moody! Has anyone else dealt with this before or does anyone have any suggestions for what I should do?  My first thought was to take the phone straight to the post office and send it to her and tell her to knock her crap off, but I know that will only make it worse.

[Kitty C.]

First, I'd be getting those messages copied.  This is blatant attempts at PAS.  And since the phone was in YOUR home, and OSS IS a minor in your home.....do you have proof of ownership??  ;-)

Has your DH heard it or know about it yet?  As for OSS being moody, that could go either way, considering the age he is, cuz it could be hormonal, too.  But that garbage has got to stop!

[Ref]

I can completely relate. When SD came over 4 weeks ago, BM called everyday, several times a day but left no message on our machine. She emails SD 2 times a day and yells at SD for not replying more than a couple times a week.  If SD is on IM  BM is always there. She just sent a care package. DEAR GOD! If yours is anything like ours, she is desperatly trying to cling on to her power over SD.

It pisses me off cause it upsets SD (mom always tells her about sick pet, friends missing her etc). I don't really care much now. The frequency of phone calls has diminished to once every other day. I can handle that. As far as spying goes. Let him give her reports.  Nothing to hide. Let her find out about the fun things you are doing etc...

BM freaked out on SD about not emailing her and calling her more than a couple times a week. She played the whole "you don't miss me" crap. I heard part of the conversation cause SD was in the kitchen when BM started flipping out.  After she got off the phone she was frustrated and I told her she could talk to me about it. She told me a bit but as usual clammed up about her mom. I said nothing except that she should give me a frustration hug. I showed her a bear hug that I give DH when I am frustrated. She liked the idea and gave me a very painful frustration hug. Made her feel better, I am still healing.

Good luck. 13 is a hard age without all of this drama

[Stepmom0418]

I would get rid of the phone!!! There is no reason to make them boys feel guilty about spending time with their father. Do as you said and send it back to her along with a note that says she can call your home phone to talk to the kids. But personally I wonder if you can use the messages in court. Do you have an attorney? GAL? Upcomming court cases? Hopefully the others here can offer more advice this is just my initial reaction as it was yours but I would for sure get rid of that phone!!

[stressedstepmom]

I am going to send the messages to my mailbox and then copy them. But since I had to put in a password to get his messages can I get in trouble for that?  I know that is the first thing she would make a stink about. I was thinking along the same lines as what you said Kitty, that he is a minor and he is in our house and so it the phone.
We also went through the pain of BM emailing OSS constantly or being on IM the last time we had the boys. She only seems to do this at least to the extreme with OSS.  So far she hasn't talked to YSS when she calls but in the messages its for both of them. She also sends all kinds of letters and care packages when they are here but I don't mind that. Well the letters I do because they are always like her phone messages are.  It is just so frustrating because when she took DH to court last week to try and stop this visitation she went on and on in her petition that DH mentally abused the boys. She repeated mental abuse so many times. Yet DH has never done anything to hurt the boys, but what the hell does she think she is doing by leaving those messages and making them feel guilty for enjoying time with their father? She has been a PAS mother since the day her and DH got divorced.

[stressedstepmom]

DH just got home (he took boys to a movie and that is when I did my sleuthing) and I was able to tell him about the messages  but he hasn't heard it yet. I was also able to transfer the messages  to my cell so I can copy it later.  What we are thinking of doing now is telling OSS that he doesn't need the phone and we are going to return it to his mother but wait a few days or until he questions it. So take it away now and put it up and see how many other messages we can get off of it. We are thinking that that will work until one of the boys asks to call their mother. So far it has just been her leaving messages, they haven't called her back.  Or maybe just telling OSS that we are putting the phone up and he can have it back when he leaves, not sure yet.
We do have an attorney and DH has to go to court 2 days after he returns the boys at the end of August because she wants to stop next years visitation. As I understand it that court date is just to have a law guardian assigned. I have no idea if we can even use these messages as evidence but it is worth trying. We are also putting the boys in counseling starting next week while they are here. Try and get some of this damage undone. I absolutely think the phone needs to be gotten rid of, I even told DH that I would be the one to say it so that I am the bad guy. I know once she finds out she will throw a fit but I also know that she won't leave messages like that on my phone.

[Stepmom0418]

I think thats a good idea to keep the phone till they go back to BM's and get as many messages as you can saved. I would also be contacting DH's attorney as soon as you can to see if any of the messages can be used in court and your DH also may want to rethink the custody agreement. JMO! Good luck and keep us posted as to what you and your DH decide to do and how it goes!

[tulip]

My sd came back from a visit with bm a couple weeks ago, and said bm was thinking about getting her a cell phone for her b-day the next day. She just turned 12. Dh told her if she got a cell, she would have to follow the same rules she does with our phone. That didn't impress her much.

Then after talking to bm, he found out that calls to bm would be free, but sd would have to pay for any other calls she used it for. How stupid! SD doesn't have a job, how is she going to pay a phone bill? We have a court order that restricts the times and frequency of phone calls, and she is just trying to get around that.

So we said "BM does not make the rules in our home. It's not up to her to decide if sd can have a cell phone. So if she buys her a cell phone without our permission, she will keep it at her house."

[stressedstepmom]

Well it is 5 a.m., anyone want to guess why I am awake?? It's not to get ready for work or by choice I can tell ya that!! I was sleeping peacefully when my cell phone starts ringing. My cell phone is LOUD and in another room and it was 4:41 a.m. I thought maybe it was my DH (he is working overnight shift this month) Find the phone, open it and see its PBFH!! So I answer it and she acts all surprised that I answered and asks for DH. I inform her that he is at work (which she knows) and she replies that she thought he took cell to work with him (this woman has degrees yet doesn't know that a military man who works in a really big gov't building that isn't on a base...one of those  jobs  can't take cells to work???) So she attempts to hang up so I ask if it is an emergency and here is the shocker!!! The boys hadn't called her in a few days (!!!!) and she made a comment if OSS still had his cell phone. I just made a disgusted sound and said yeah he has it and hung up on her. Then called DH to vent because I LOVE my sleep and now am wide awake and fuming. This will be the 4th day I think out of 6 weeks that the boys will be here, looks like we are in for a fun filled summer!!

[custodyhubby]

When I read your post, it sounded EXACLTY like what it happening to us! (My hubby is sole custodial parent of 13 year old)

  (A little background for you....SD is very active in school.....manages her time well but after team sports etc....rarely has time in the evening to do anything except homework). BM has accused of several times of "not letting child talk" on the phone. Now. BM calls every night from 2000 miles away. Sometimes SD is here, sometimes she is not. BM doesn't believe anything we say. We got a court order that 2x a week during certain times, my hubby will "make" child available for calls. BM doesn't call during those times, even though we jump through hoops to have kid sitting by phone etc.... BM just is trying to "control things"--

SO, last Febr., SD came home from visiting mom for a week with a cell phone.  BM text messaged my SD several times a day and left messages each morning and each evening for our 13 year old. It got to the point where when we went out as a family for dinner, my SD would want to take this cell phone. And, if she forgot it, her mom would rant and rave etc.....about why her daughter didn't have her cell phone and that she was supposed to carry it with her everywhere....even to school etc...

My hubby had "had it"- So, he packed up the cell phone and sent it back 2000 miles to her mom and told her that his daughter is not allowed to have cell phones and that we have a residential phone and computer access for email and that if mom wasn't happy with that, she could bring her little hind end to court and petition otherwise. He added that a busy 13 year old doesnt' need a cell phone and that any future cell phones would also be returned.

For some reason, BM thinks that we always are trying some PAS syndrome on her, thwarting her relationship with her daughter. But, in the end, she was the one who left her in our care to move such large distance away.

My advice: Send the cell phone back. If you have a residential phone, that is all that is necessary-- t his is just an attempt to exert power over the kids and you!

[stressedstepmom]

That is what DH is going to tell BM when he wakes up (he worked overnight) I am just really pissed that she called my cell around 5 a.m.  This is only the 4th day like I said and she is acting like the boys have forgotten her. Heaven forbid if they are just busy and having fun. I just told OSS that he needed to call his mom and he did but she didn't answer. I am going to call the lawyer when I have some alone time today and tell him what is happening and see if he can call the judge's assistant that DH and BM went before last week. This man seemed really put off from what she was trying to do, and I think he would be really interested in what is going on. I also think it would be better coming from our lawyer than from DH.  It has always been a control issue with BM but this is too much. Thanks for your advice.

[custodyhubby]

My hubby also works overnights!

And, my SD's BM also acts like she's forgotten about her. And, she has called our house phone as early as 6:30 a.m. to "reach her before school". It's a blatent interruption of privacy.  I tried to explain to her that 13 year olds are self absorbed, don't always think of what the other parent is doing/feeling, and is just plain "a busy teenager with a life".
But, BM always makes her feel badly for "not calling her, not thinking of her, not including her" blah, blah.  Not for nothing, but most 13year olds don't want much to do with their parents anyway! They'd rather be with friends etc.....

[Bolivar OH]

X is a control freak who is trying to micro-manage your visitation time.  Please vent,, I did a lot of venting when I first came here.  It clears out the mind.  Hell.... now that I think of it........ is still do a lot of venting.

Yes, you have rights.  State clearly that unless there is an emergency do not call the children.  She is interfering with your visitation time and any other calls I will conceder harassment.

Remember you can NOT control her behavior, but you CAN control your reaction.

My X is a vindictive control freak trying to micro-manage my relationship with my son.  I have been praying that my X gets a boy friend.  Hopefully your husbands X gets a boy friend.  Does anyone know of any dumb men who would like to date and evil nut-case in OH?  At this point I would hire an actor to fill the spot.  Does anyone know of any good actors who would like to take on the role of nice guy dating a Psycho-B*tch from Hell?

[stressedstepmom]

I talked to our lawyer earlier this afternoon and he flipped. He suggested that DH first call her and try to work it out that way but that if that didn't work he would definitely take action against her. DH is going to try and set up one day a week for her to call the boys and of course they can call her whenever they want to. He also said for us to keep the cell phone so that at the end of the visit we can log all the calls she makes to it. As of now the cell is turned off and put up but she still calls it constantly. If she doesn't agree with what DH suggests then she is only hurting herself because she will have to explain her actions in court.
Our PBFH has a boyfriend. Don't think they have been dating more than 5 or 6 months but it seems to be serious. I read somewhere that sometimes PASers will stop all PAS activity for a long period (the last 5-6 yrs haven't been that bad...a few episodes but not her norm) but that once they get involved in another relationship that it sometimes comes back and worse. That is exactly how our situation is. I think part of it is this new b/f but I also think she feels threatened because we live a lot closer now and DH wants more time. She is a control freak though, and she sees it as that those boys are just hers. She is acting like they have never been with us but the fact is that this is the 7th year I think that they have been out of the state to visit us. So it is nothing new for her, she is just obsessive. She can't or won't believe that the boys are having fun and not thinking to call her everday several times a day, she has to look at it like we are refusing to let them.

[nosonew]

I haven't read the other replies yet...but first and foremost, somehow, that phone needs to "get lost" during the entire visitation.  Turn the thing off.... Second, make copies of all the messages.  Third, use them against her! That is BLATANT PAS, and even if it is not called that in court...NO JUDGE will like hearing that!  

You need to research PAS....as I say, Knowledge is power! You have to know what and WHO you are dealing with!  Please google search PAS, and read, read, read!  Hope you have a great attorney!

[stressedstepmom]

I have researched PAS and am in the process of making copies of PAS related items to send to our lawyer and also to the therapist that I just set up an appointment with.  The cell phone has been turned off the whole time, OSS checks it but not that often. I have been transferring all the damaging calls to my phone. Now we just have to copy them. The therapist that I just talked to seems like he will be really good, I was on the phone with him for quite a while and he wanted all the history. He is also going to listen to the messages and then most likely the phone will be taken away. That way she can't say we were just being unreasonable and we will have a professionals opinion that what she is doing is hurting them emotionally.
Last night she called OSS cell phone at 1:30 a.m. First she calls mine the night before at 4:30 a.m. now this. She left a message at 1:30 and was crying (seems to be the norm for her messages) and said she just wanted to hear his voice and her normal please don't forget me plea. When I told the therapist this he asked me if she was an alcoholic. I had just been thinking the same thing last night when I heard her message. Reminded me of a sad drunk the way she was carrying on. How do we go about investigating this without getting a private investigator or is that our only option?
Also the therapist said that he could release his transcripts to the counselor in NY but that we may not want to do that because BM may be allowed access to the transcript then.  Has anyone been in a situation where there will be 2 counselors and if so what is your opinion on that?

[hagatha]

Since you didn't mention any other calls on the cell phone I will assume none of the kids friends have the number. So the only calls made to the phone are by mommy-dearest.  And she may or may not have an addiction problem.

You can really have fun with this.  Encourage the boys to call ALL their friends daily, and talk about everything going on. Really rack up that phone bill. Or the phone can get knocked behind a chair, the sofa, the fridge if left out. (ok I am being a wee bit nasty)

Contrary to others opinion I wouldn't recommend sending it back to mommy-dearest. Encourage them to call. Be open about "allowing them the ability to interact with mom". What you will be teaching them is you know it's ok to love mom. Even if she isn't ok with them loving dad.
Someday, they will understand what she was trying to do and they will remember how you guys reacted to her nonsense.

The Witch

Remember . . . KARMA is a Wonderful Thing!!!

[hagatha]

Since you didn't mention any other calls on the cell phone I will assume none of the kids friends have the number. So the only calls made to the phone are by mommy-dearest.  And she may or may not have an addiction problem.

You can really have fun with this.  Encourage the boys to call ALL their friends daily, and talk about everything going on. Really rack up that phone bill. Or the phone can get knocked behind a chair, the sofa, the fridge if left out. (ok I am being a wee bit nasty)

Contrary to others opinion I wouldn't recommend sending it back to mommy-dearest. Encourage them to call. Be open about "allowing them the ability to interact with mom". What you will be teaching them is you know it's ok to love mom. Even if she isn't ok with them loving dad.
Someday, they will understand what she was trying to do and they will remember how you guys reacted to her nonsense.

The Witch

Remember . . . KARMA is a Wonderful Thing!!!

[stressedstepmom]

I know that BMs b/f has the number (he has left a few messages) and I know that a cousin who is the same age has the number.  DH told OSS he needed to call his mom 2 days ago and OSS replied that he had left a message. So later that evening DH mentioned it again and OSS called her but was reluctent (sp) to do so. I think he understands how she is and that it does obviously affect him (She did a similar thing last visit but it was through IM and everytime she would log on he would log off). The last message that she sent to his cell she is openly sobbing through the whole thing and says that no matter what she does/has done it is only in his best interest. She again does her standard please don't forget me plea but it is really bad in this message. We have been able to intercept most of the damaging messages and even though they are saved he doesn't check them, but she had left the last one right before he called her and we weren't able to intercept it.
After talking to the lawyer and the therapist about all of this in depth we are trying to come up with a way to either take the phone away or limit the useage (or maybe just send BM a certified letter stating what therapist says about the affect her messages have on boys and ask her to stop). She has already planted in his head that if we do either of the first 2  that it will be really damaging to him. Once the therapist actually hears the messages on Tuesday we should have a game plan about that.
As far as racking up the minutes we have already thought of that. But the phone doesn't really seem to matter to him. Also when he calls her it is free because they have the same service. We have always encouraged both boys to call and write their mother. Communication has never been a problem on our end, only hers.
One thing we have noticed though is that she only gets this obsessive with OSS. She seems to smother him with all the attention but the YSS is left out a lot. YSS is also very unemotional, can't stand any type of affection. YSS also seems to have a lot of anger problems and I know that a lot of that is probably due to that fact.
DH received notification yesterday of which law guardian was appointed to the boys(I googled him but couldn't find anything). BM tried to have this visitation stopped and when judge allowed it BM stated she wanted a trial to stop next summers visitation. The notice states that any records (medical, school, counseling) need to be involved. Our therapist said that since we are in a different state that different laws apply and we have the option of not releasing those. But I think that as long as we don't have a bias guardian that it would be in our favor since the phone messages and early morning calls with be discussed in there. Plus BM won't be able to have the boys in counseling until after the law guardian gets involved (all of this happens 2 days after boys return home). So it will basically be a he said/she said type of thing but we would have the therapists transcripts to back up our side.
We have never dealt with a law guardian so I am not sure really what to expect. I have read articles on the subject but there isn't a lot of information available about how it works with the parents in different states. I don't know if DH will be able to talk to him right away, or if they will do it over the phone or if we will have to go there every time DH is needed. I will worry about all that later, for now we will just enjoy the time with the boys and keep intercepting all of BMs messages. She is just a real pain in the ass but I have known that for 10 years!

[prince13]

I can relate to all of this! DH's kids now have a cell phone at our house, too. I despise the thing and what it represents...her way of controlling what goes on at our home. Anyway, this began last summer following an ugly court battle. They sent the cell phone "for safety" reasons as Dad is so abusive (ugly ugly court battle, but the kids were still here so obviously we know she is a liar). Well, as some of you here know (I am Pagan in chat) we didn't see the kids all Fall and had another court battle. Things have been going really well since the therapist has been involved. He truly has the kids interest at heart. The kids are here for the summer, but the damn cell phone came back with them. However, DH and I are not supposed to know that they have it. His 13 year old daughter lied to him and intially told him she didn't know where it was as Mom didn't give the kids the phone all the time. Well, when his daughter is not here (shortened visitation per last court) 11 year old son has the phone. They each hide it in their backpacks. On one of their Mother's weekends I found the phone. The child is using it to call Mom during the day when we are at work which I think she MAKES him call. I don't get it as there are scheduled phone calls 2x/week anyway. I feel this is so that she can "spy" on what goes on in our home. I feel like we have no privacy whatsoever anymore. The sick thing is that when the 11 year old did use the home phone to call his Mom (we record conversations for our personal use only) she says to him "did you get the cell phone?" and she just panders to him missing her etc. I want to vomit! When he doesn't talk to Mom all the time and she is not around he is a happy go lucky kid enjoying his time here. Granted, he still is unable to tell Mom that he has fun at Dad's house.

So, my big question for all of you.... is What do I do with the phone given that DH and I are not supposed to know that the kids have it here.
This weekend they are with their Mom so I did turn it on to let the battery run out as I did notice they don't have a charger for it here, and our Nextel charger will not work with their phone. Do I take it and hide it and have it reappear in August when they go back to their Mom's? Really, why do they need the frickin' cellular when they can use our phone to call her if they desire? If they are home alone during the day they are not allowed to answer the home phone unless they know the caller id#. Too bad for BM that she uses a calling card to call from work and it shows up as unknown/ or blocked. We just feel that it is a safety issue and too easy for an 11 or 13 year old to slip and say "Dad isn't here etc...".

I am looking for advice on what to do about the phone. Please advise.