Is Halloween considered a shared holiday?

[onedaddy]

We are in the wake of a custody trial, just got news the forensics report is VERY pro father.  BM decided to up and change the kids to their 5th school due to her buying a new house the 6th move in 2 years w/o any consult from joint custody DH even though the decree stipulates just that.

BM had DH falsely arrested 2x this past year lastly claiming he threatened her and SF(a violient ex-con) on the children's phone line. We proved in court they lied.  DH's is RO is up at midnight tonight.

SF just called the house to let us know he received our letter requesting Halloween and their lawyer told them it was not a recognized, shared holiday by the courts.

Are they crazy?  First the say their terrified of DH because of threatening phone calls when they picked up the children's phone line but they call our house even after I have stipulate no verbal contact only mail, email or fax.

They moved 90 miles away off of a super busy highway so seeing them on a weekday is virtually impossibe, wouldn't/shouldn't the court recognize this?

[Kitty C.]

They will if you insist they do...........

Besides, it's a children's holiday and BOTH parents ought to be able to share in it.  We've NEVER been able to, even when it's on DH's weekend, cuz the local yokels insist on having the trick-or-treating on a Thurs. night EVERY year.

[onedaddy]

That's what I figured... well I guess I'm gonna have to insist then.

I hope this nut is just digging a grave for herself.

[MixedBag]

Really, since your question was "is it considered a shared holiday" it wil totally depend on the state and county that has jurisdiction over your situation.

For example, I know OH/Greene County listed Halloween as "Beggar's Day" in their standard local parenting holidays that are shared.  They had a little flyer in the foyer of the court house that listed all holidays and what the county considered standard time with the NCP.  I found it interesting (and right) that Halloween be alternated.

But I haven't found the same type of thing in the three other counties/states that we deal with.  (we no longer deal with OH).

So unless it's spelled out in the divorce as a HOLIDAY, or unless you find it in your state or county's guidelines, I'd say NOPE, it's not one that they have to share or alternate.

Now I'm not saying this is the SMART choice on their part not to share the kids regardless of any court order, but many CP's just don't thinkt hat way -- you know....what's best for the children....and maybe Halloween falls on a weekend you can have and therefore have the kids for Trick or Treating????

Believe me, I deal with my EX who denies all Federal holidays, Mother's Day, my birthday (didn't even get a phone call OR card this year), etc.. even if they're connected to my weekend.  He started this back in 1996 and hasn't changed.  (And EX if you want to "change" you need to step forward, not expect me to ask AGAIN only to be told no AGAIN.  I'm done asking.)

Last year I managed to have some of those days by connecting them to my weekend that I'm allowed to have with my son....it was the only way.

[Iamthegoose]

Hi all.. haven't posted in a long time mainly b/c I haven't had any real issues as things are going pretty well.  However, I do read most of the posts and this one is actually a huge problem for me right now.  When my ex and I (and our lawyers) sat down to work out a visitation agreement (BTW...we did this while sitting outside the courtroom waiting to be called in) , we came to an agreement on everything but Halloween.  I wanted to put in the agreement that it would be alternated every other year.  For some reason... to this day I still don't know why.. my ex refused.  She said that it shoudl be joint and we should share the day with him.  I hated this idea b/c well...I didnt' want to have to spend any time with my ex at all.  However, I had really no choice but to agree b/c..well...I couldn't go into court saying the only disagreement we have is halloween, where she wants to do it joint...and take that to trial.  I would have been laughed out of court.  So I agreed. My son turns 2 in November btw.  Anyway, the first Halloween wasn't so bad.  I wasn't dating anyone, neither was my ex... we went to trick or treating with him together and it was a pleasant time with no fighting.

Now this year...  I am seriously dating someone.  The idea of me spending a few hours with my ex trick or treating kind bothers her and I understand why.  She has been invited to come along and she agreed.  They have never met before.  I dont know if I want to subject myself to htis or not.  My new g/f..my ex...one nice happy family hanging out.  I'll lose my mind.  I'm thinking that this year, I"ll just take him in the morning, drop him off with his mother and let them go.  I really don't know what the right thing to do is.  

Btw...I was reading the posts on the other board... I want to make this clear... my new g/f is completely supportive of whatever decision I make to this.  She is not pulling me in any direction.  She loves my son.  This is jsut me trying to figure out what is best.  

[Kitty C.]

Yes, she IS pulling you, if she 'feels uncomfortable' with you spending a couple hours with your ex for the sake of your child!  If she is that insecure in the relationship to be worried about something like this, I think you need to seriously re-evaluate where this relationship is going.  To tell you the truth, if it were me, I'd be telling her to like it or lump it,   my child comes before she does, regardless of who else is involved.  What does she think is going to happen, that your ex is going to try to win you back, when it's like pulling teeth just for you to have to endure being in her presence for that long in the first place??? Get real!

This is too new to everyone, especially your son and him being only 2.  I seriously recommend that you do this as stipulated in your order, for the sake of your child......WITHOUT your GF.  And if she can't handle that, then I guess you two didn't have much of a relationship to begin with.  You have other holidays to spend with your son AND your GF, without your ex being there.  If she can't deal with a couple hours only ONCE a year, then she's got some SERIOUS problems.

[Iamthegoose]

Have some sort of problem?  CAn you possibly be a little more adversarial?  The attitude was not necessary.  She is not pulling me anywhere.  She is not the issue.  She feels uncomfortable about it but completely understands the situation. I am trying to figure out if going with my ex is a good idea or not.   WHy don't you jump down someone elses throat.  PLus...who said it was pulling teeth for me to endure anything?  My ex and I have been getting along great right now with regards to our son.  We haven't followed the parenting plan ever really.  I see him 3-4 times during the week and every other weekend.  I'm a NCP and almost a full time father with the time I have.  Me spending time with my ex isn't a problem at all.  I'm just concerned for my son.  I don't want to confuse him.  Sometimes we can be together...sometimes we can't.  This is new to me.  I really don't know what is ok to subject him to in some situations and what isn't.  I was looking for actual advice not someone to bitch at my g/f who has done nothing but support me, and love my son.  I just said having my ex and my current g/f in the same place for an event such as trick or treating might be a tad weird for me.  All I was trying to explain was that I have an interesting situation regarding Halloween.  Halloween was the topic of this thread.  So, please discuss your concerns/experiences with Halloween or find another person to bother.

[jilly]

Maybe this would not be the best time for your ex and your g/f to meet. It would just make it even more awkard than if she wasn't there. I can understand your g/f being uncomfortable. I don't think it stems from any real insecurity because she knows that there's no feelings between you and your ex. However, you two do have a child together and lots of history, which creates a bond, albeit a kind of strange bond, but a bond nonetheless. Hence, that's where the uncomfortable part comes in. It's just weird! LOL  My DH and I recently stood in his ex-wife's living room with her and her husband and had a conversation while our daughter and their (DH and his ex) daughter were upstairs.  When we were driving home DH said "Man, that felt really weird!"
My suggestion would be to save the meeting for another time (preferably before a major holiday!) and go trick-or-treating with your son and ex as ordered in the court order. Try not to think about your ex being there and just enjoy the time with your son.
My daughter went trick-or-treating for the first time last year. She was so cute going up to the doors and holding our her bag because she was too young to say "trick-or-treat!"  The only "problem" I had was we had SD last year for Halloween and DH was torn between being with her and being with our daughter for her first "real" Halloween. He ended up having to split his time between them because he wouldn't make SD stay with us instead of running ahead of us with her Grandma.

[Iamthegoose]

Jilly...thank you very much for your response.  I was actually thinking about maybe having them meet before Halloween if we were all going to go together.  Both are very willing.  I was trying to explain that this is not a hostile situation at all, just weird.  

I know it all all work out when we get to it, jsut a little confusing figuring out what to do.  Thanks again Jilly.

[Kitty C.]

Well, then maybe you need to clarify your posts better.  Because I understood you to say that your GF had a problem with you and your ex taking your son TOTing without her.  I just have serious problems with SO's who get their knickers in a twist when it comes to the kids and exes.  The kids come first, ALWAYS.

Sorry if I appeared 'adversarial' to you, but many of the issues dealt with in these forums can hit different nerves with different people.

You said your GF was invited......by whom, you?  Or your ex?  If you invited her, but now feel uncomfortable about it, then just tell her.  If she loves you and your son that much, she will understand.  Personally, since your son is so young, I still think it would be a better idea to just do it like you did last year.  Like I said, you have plenty of other holidays to share with your son and GF, and this is only for a couple hours.  It's ALL about your son, no one else.

This 'may' be a thread about Halloween, but the issue YOU brought up was in regards to your ex and your GF.  And I'll bother whomever I like.......I've been doing it here for years.........

[Iamthegoose]

you're right Kitty..and sorry if I over reacted a tad.  I've read plenty of your responses and should have known what I was in for :)

No hard feelings I hope.  

You are absolutely 100% right.  It is all about my son and I will always do what is in his bests interests no matter what.  And to clarify, my ex invited my current g/f to come at the very beginning of Halloween talks.  I think everyone will be civil but I think the advice is sound...this might not be the best time for the 2 to meet.  

[Kitty C.]

Your EX invited her???  That's amazing, especially given how short a time it's been since you've separated!  Hell, DH and I have been together for 7 and married for 5...and the PBFH STILL wishes I would disappear off the face of this earth!  I'd drop dead of a heart attack if she ever invited ME to anything, LOL!

JMO, but if ANYONE, whether it be your son, your ex, your GF, or you, is uncomfortable yet with the situation, I'd wait for a different occasion.  One thing that eases it for us is going to school or extra-curricular events where there's a lot of other people.  SS's parents and step-parents can all be there for him, but at least we don't have to sit together!  But your little guy is only 2 and that's still a few years off.

Remember what Crush, the sea turtle, said about kids on 'Finding Nemo'?  'You never know, but when they know, you'll know, you know?'  Just keep doing what you're doing for the little guy, he'll get more and more comfortable with it all the time, and you along with him.  Then you'll know.......

And certainly no hard feelings!  Like I said, these issues create some very strong feelings in all of us.  We're talking about our children, after all!  What could be more important??  :-)

Glad to see you here, Goose.  Hope you keep coming back!

[MYSONSDAD]

Well, if I ever get to trial, it is a holiday in my Parenting Plan.

I live in a very small town and it is a farming community. Big on Harvest time and Halloween.

I miss enough holidays and the courts only recognize the holidays I get off of work. I do not work nights, so I had the attorney put it in.

"Children learn what they live"

[oklahoma]

No advice really, but I had to laugh at your comment about "one nice happy family hanging out."  I went with DH to SD's 5th grade "Promotion."  There was DH, ex#1, her current husband (he was just there at the end for a few minutes), DH's ex#2, me, and the children: DH and ex#1 have two girls, ex#1 and her husband have one son, me and DH have a son and daughter.  I jokingly commented to my husband that he needed to get a picture of all of his wives--he almost fell down laughing :)

That type of situation has very rarely occurred in the past 5 years I have been with my husband.  We certainly don't seek them out.  But it is manageable for all when it happens--and my SDs see that we can all act like adults.....

[onedaddy]

I just got off the phone with the lawyer and the GAL who stated it is indeed recognized as a holiday and we will be getting the children.

I was told this by a previous lawyer and noticed in on the parenting plans on this site.  I implemented it in to the new plan if we do not win custody.  Which believe it or not seems unlikely at this stage of the game.  

fingers crossed!  

[Kimberly9]

even if you do when custody.  Make sure that you get a very clear parenting plan,  even if you are the custodial parent.  It will decrease so many other problems in the long run.

Good luck!

[onedaddy]

We plan on it!
The parenting plan I have is like 20 pages long.  I think I've covered everything. BM will be as difficult as she can get away with.  So I gave her very little leeway.  The problem is this trial has been postponed so many times that while waiting she has done everything in the plan.  Maybe that'll prove better for us in the long run.  We'll surely see!

[Kimberly9]

after 8 years, I still get squemish every time that dh's ex and I have to be together, but we do it for my ss.

I would ask yourself this question:  Is my girlfriend likely to be permanent?

If the answer is yes, then I would set up a meeting for your ex and girlfriend before Halloween and then plan on trick or treating together.

It will not be confusing for your son.  He will be with people that love him.  He will love the attention.  My ss used to fantasize about us all (child, dad, stepmom, mom and stepdad) living in a house together.  He never had reunification fantasies that didn't include the stepparents.

There will be lots of times you will need to co-parent.  All 4 of my ss's parents go to pt conferences together.  It is stressful but gives us insight to so much more than if we went by ourselves.  The teacher sees us as a team.  It is best if you can do that.

Uncomfortable, yes.  But the relationship is worth it.  Good luck.