Getting more visitation/custody from crazy ex

[starlabrite]

Hi...this is my first post here, and it's actually not for me, it's for my boyfriend, so please be kind.  :)

He has a daughter with his ex-girlfriend that is currently 10 months old.  He pays his ex child support each month, plus he pays for all of the child's medical/care bills.  He and his ex have no formal agreement of custody; prior to the baby's birth, they agreed that he would have the child every other weekend, and for a certain number of weeks during the summer.  He wanted full custody at the time, but that was all his ex would agree to.  Once the baby was born, however, his ex changed her mind and said she didn't want him taking the baby for overnight stays until after she turned one.  So, he was visiting the baby every weekend...until his ex started lashing out and yelling at him all of the time, and she eventually said she only wanted him to visit every other weekend.  That is the schedule he keeps now.  His ex is going to school full-time, and she lives with her mother, with the baby staying in her room (even though there is an extra room in the house that the baby could use).  My boyfriend and I share a 2-bedroom apartment with my brother, and we both work full-time (I don't know if that makes any difference).  He has been planning to see a lawyer for a while, but I don't think he's quite sure where to start, and he has absolutely no confidence in succeeding in court against his ex...he knows from experience that she has no problem lying to her advantage, under oath or not.  She and her mother (her whole family, actually) are very manipulative, controlling people, and they will do or say anything to get their way.  Her most recent episode occurred last weekend, and this prompted my boyfriend to start writing things down when situations like this occur:
His daughter had just woken up from a nap, and he was feeding her in the kitchen.  His ex came into the room and asked him if he was hungry, to which he responded that he was, so she started to take some leftovers out of the refrigerator.  In the process, she said, very nonchalantly, "So, you and [girlfriend- me] have been dating for six months now, right?"
He didn't want to say anything that might anger her, so he just said, "I think it's been a little over six months, yes."
His ex then asked, "Do you love her?"
He thought that was none of her business, as obviously they're not involved, and have not been for quite sometime.  They weren't even dating when the baby was conceived...it was just a fling.  He told her that he thought the question was inappropriate, but she just persisted, asking if he planned to marry me, then demanding to know why he wouldn't answer her.  He just kept saying that he didn't think those questions were appropriate, and that she shouldn't be acting that way in front of the baby.  Eventually, she started cursing at him, then screamed about how she had full custody because she's the mother, and she could tell him when he could see the baby and couldn't.  He didn't say anything to challenge her...he just kept repeating that the baby shouldn't hear that, and that it was inappropriate.  She also commented how it was immoral for him to be living with me (ha!).  After she had finished, the baby started crying.  His ex claimed it was just "because she missed her mommy," and took the baby from him, but that did nothing to calm her down.  My boyfriend had to spend a long time afterwards trying to comfort the baby, and his ex didn't really seem to think it was her fault.  Later, she even made mention of "their fight," to him in a mocking way, and he wondered how she would consider her shouting at him a fight.  Needless to say, that situation is a small example of how she's acted in the past.  My concern is that the baby is young now, and is clearly getting upset...what happens when her father isn't there?  And what about when the baby is older...will my boyfriend's ex "contaminate" their daughter with all of this hatred and need for control, pitting her against her own father?  If she shows no remorse for upsetting the child, it seems like a horrible environment for someone to grow up in.  My boyfriend claims his ex is crazy, and says a psychological test would very clearly show that, so he is considering speaking to a lawyer about that...still...what if his ex just lies on the test?  At the point things are now, he can't even take his baby to the park without his ex making a fuss...she refuses to let him go unless she accompanies him.  
I have a feeling that nobody wants to read this much, so i'll omit further details, but if anyone has some advice, please help!  My boyfriend is very depressed and hates to think about how horrible the situation is because of his ex, and he (and I, and his family, etc.) is very considered about how his daughter will be raised in that atmosphere.  I would be infinitely grateful for your help.  

[Nesto]

Other people here will probably respond with much more detailed advice on documenting things, etc.  But to me, there are 2 clear things your BF needs to do now.  First is get a lawyer and get a real agreement in place.   The longer this situation remains the status quo, the less of a chance he has of changing his custody arrangements.

Second, I'm not exactly clear where his time with his DD happens, but he should not allow his ex into his house nor spend his time with his daughter in her/her mom's place.

[starlabrite]

I'm trying to push him to get a lawyer, and he knows he needs to, but I think that his dealing with his ex has him so down that he doesn't want to think about it, much less talk with a lawyer about it.  :(  I told him to take a pocket tape recorder so he can record her going nuts next time...it's much better to have hard evidence.

As I said, he only gets to visit his daughter every other weekend, and on top of that, it's an hour and a half away.  So he is only able to visit by staying at his ex's house throughout that day.  I think I mentioned that she won't let him take their daughter anywhere unsupervised...he asked to take her to the park with his parents, and she flatly refused, then said only if she went along.  We can't figure out how he can get his daughter out of that house for even part of the day without his ex freaking out, so clearly something has to be done, as she is obviously battling for control, and she only feels she has it if he's in her "territory."

[topnotchdad]

My DH was in a similar situation with his daughter.  BM was also very controlling, basically calling all the shots, and making him visit at her place, I think in her crazy mind this made her think they were a "family."

He sacrificed a lot of time with DD, and a lot of his rights as a father, because he didn't want to have to deal with BM.  Now we are trying for custody (DD is 8), and it is MUCH harder to prove he is the better parent, b/c while he's had 50/50 for 3 years now, there's still that first year of baby's life where he was seemingly "uninvolved" and BM keeps bringing that up.

He really should wear the recorder, and he shouldn't visit with DD in BM's home.  He's going to have to get an agreement, and barring a criminal record, there should be no reason to have visitations be supervised.  Being alone with BM is a very dangerous thing.  If she gets mad at him, she could call the cops and tell them he hit her, and believe me, they will take her word for it even if there's no marks on her.  He needs to protect himself from this by either taping every time he's with her, or bringing a witness along.

Also, any money he's giving her, he needs to get proof that he's paying it.  Either write checks and then keep a copy of the cancelled check, or pay with a money order, etc.  Don't give her cash, b/c she'll deny he ever paid her anything.  Also, keep all receipts from Dr bills, etc, and any reciepts from if he buys formula, diapers, etc.  These will help him prove he's supporting his child's needs.  Also, he should find out when DR's appointments are, and try to go to all of them.  This will keep him involved in baby's med care, and it will be very hard for BM to "attack" him in the Dr's office.  Also,  if the Dr notices hostility of BM towards BF, he could testify this if need be.

[backwardsbike]

I agree with the other posters.  I am a NCP mom.  I am a nurse, a certified paretneducator and do not have custody of my own children.  Why?  Becasue thier father chose to lie and dose it real well.  ANd because I tried for too long of a time to just be reasonable and not make waves with him.

The result is a status quo that won't go away.  One thing I learned too late is that you have to be aggressive in the begining.  My kids are teens now and so brainwashed by thier dad that they don't know which end is up.

he needs tog et himself a lawyer and od it NOW.  And he needs to be having visitations without his X present and they need to be away from her home.

He needs to have documentation of every visit he has withth e baby.  have him buy some candy or somehting small at a store near her home that shows the time, date adn location on the reciept.  he needs to keep these along with a journal of everything that happened at the visit.

Its a lot of work but so totally worth it.

[starlabrite]

Thanks for all of your advice...does anyone have a suggestion as to how my BF might be able to have visitation with his daughter outside of his ex's home?  She will most likely argue if he asks her, and she always has to be right (even if she's wrong).  And I know it would be horrible to even just take his daughter to the park without asking permission, as she might freak out and claim he kidnapped her or something.  How do you convince an irrational person that their method of visitation is no good?  It seems like either way, he'll encounter some sort of chaos.  :(

[Nesto]

>Thanks for all of your advice...does anyone have a suggestion
>as to how my BF might be able to have visitation with his
>daughter outside of his ex's home?  She will most likely argue
>if he asks her, and she always has to be right (even if she's
>wrong).  And I know it would be horrible to even just take his
>daughter to the park without asking permission, as she might
>freak out and claim he kidnapped her or something.  How do you
>convince an irrational person that their method of visitation
>is no good?  It seems like either way, he'll encounter some
>sort of chaos.  :(

Absent good reason, it is totally unreasonable to deny dad the abilty to have his daughter on his own.  He's dealing with a mom who's making a power play on him and he's just got to get a lawyer now.  Otherwise he can argue and plead until he's blue in the face.  You should tell him the longer he waits the more crap he has to put up with.

[b1798]

Gosh, your story feels like deja vue for me...I am the fiance to the same situation. My fiance had a one night stand and two weeks later we met.  Two months later she said she was pregnant, well we waited the seven months with no contact with her and when we knew she had the baby we called and set up dna test. It came back his, we thought things were going to be fine in the beiginning, but when she came to us with "her" version of the custody agreement we knew it was going to be hard. Basically it said she had everything and we could visit if she said it was okay. We took it to an attorney and he said unless we didnt care that she have everything we shouldnt sign it. So when we asked her for some changes it started. We didnt get to see the baby until she was 6 months because BM said we couldnt unless we came to her home. Finally my fiance wanted to see his baby so he gave in and did this for three months. Come to find out we didnt have to - you need a lawyer to do this but there is an emergency contempt order you can file that is almost like a retraining order for the mother from the father.  Advice: get a lawyer right away and have him file for sole custody, if there is no order in place who ever has possession of the child can keep her. For example: if your boyfriend gets the chance to leave the home with the child he has physical custody of her. I am not recommending this in all cases but its just to explain that right now NOONE has custody and noone has decision making power. Definatley get a lawyer- you'll have to have one, document everything- when he visits, what she says to him, and if she refuses his visitation. Believe it or not this will count against her. It sux, it's expensive and it has taken 18 months for us to get a court date. But we now have every other weekend overnight and wed overnight. We rarely even see the BM b/c we drop baby off a t daycare. If BM is like this now she is going to fight over everything but you need to choose your battles. Tell your boyfriend to stand up for himself trust me i know how hard it is to do this but really she cant tell you what to do and she cant legally take your child away just cause she wants to. Its a long process but unless youwant her controlling your every move for the next 18 years you need to go to court


What state are you in>?

[starlabrite]

I'm in Georgia, where, supposedly, custody is determined with the best interests of the child in mind.  My BF has his initial consultation with a lawyer on Tuesday (finally).  He has been asking the BM through email repeatedly if he can take his daughter out on a walk or something, and so has documentation of that and her refusing.  In fact, the last time he visited, the BM agreed to let him take their daughter on a walk by himself!  Then, an hour later, she took him aside and said she actually couldn't let him do that, as it would be setting a "precedent."  I guess she's got something bad in mind.

[msme]

make sure the attorney is a Board Certified Family Law & Custody Specialist. A cheap lawyer will help her hand him his butt on a platter.

Also, do not let him just take the child. While technically, the child belongs to both parents, if they were not married, the child's mother has sole custody until the court issues orders.

I took my son's kids from a sitter & took them to see their dad who they hadn't seen for a long time because his ex wouldn't let him. They Cops came to his house & made us all go to the station. They were going to give the kids back to her until she went off & threatened to kill us, in the police station.

He then got to take them to his house. When he went for the first hearing, his cheap lawyer sat there & said nothing while a *itch judge gave the kids back to her, even though he had evidence of abuse & neglect. His lawyer wouldn't put the evidence in.

We hired a Board Certified Family Law & Custody Specialist & now he has full custody & she gets 3 hours a week which she hasn't used for nearly a year & a half.

Don't forget to document everything. Also download the parenting time tracker from this site & use it faithfully.

Good luck & God bless.

You never get a second chance to make a first impression!

[flagmom]

I think the amount of visitation you are getting is more than I have seen in most states for a child so young. Whether or not you like the mother or she is insanely jealous. The baby needs her most of the time. Her reaction and jealousy to you does not make her an unfit mother. Is she doing anything blantently wrong that is endangering the child? Emotions tend to be high with a new baby. Calm down til the baby is 2 1/2 or 3 years old. From a child developement point of view the child is still identifying more so with the mother which is natural and right. I can understand why she doesn't like you, you are pushing the father to attack her legally. I don't think you are innocent or being very understanding. Put yourself in her shoes for a moment - if you can. The father is right to be good to the mother and not push her for more.

[msme]

If he allows this to continue for 2 to 3 years, it tells the court that he is happy with the situation & will keep it that way. He needs to bond with that baby now & he needs to get out from under her thumb.

Barring proven criminal activity, there is no reason that a father can not take his child over night or even out for a walk in the park. She has plans to use this against him. She proved it when she said she couldn't let him set a precident.

My bet is that she already has a lawyer & he/she has advised her to keep control until after the baby is a year old. Then they will go to court & say something like, look it has been a whole year & he has never taken her anywhere or kept her overnight. It will be her word against his & he won't have a leg to stand on.

If I were in his shoes, I would take my mom along & a video camera so grandma can take pics of her darling grandchild. Then with the camera rolling, I would say,"It is such a beautiful day, I think we will go over to the park & get some nice shots there.

Also make sure that any cheeck or money order he gives her has child support written on it or it doesn't count.

One of 2 things will happen. Either she will agree & thus you have your precident. Or, she will refuse & you will have that on tape. If she refuses, he can calmly ask why & she will hang herself a little higher. Of course, she might also go ballistic & try to grab the camera or something like that. That would make great evidence, as well. Of course make sure you have the tape recorder running too.

Good luck & God bless!
You never get a second chance to make a first impression!

[Gram]

I agree with Flagmom. There's no reason for you to be involved in any of this. The BM is feeling threatened and protective, and the best thing you can do is stay in the background. If the BF wants to be a part of the child's life, the best approach is to be kind, polite and generous to the mother of the child. I don't blame the mother for insisting that she be present for the visits. She isn't taking any chances, and has no legal obligation to even let him see the baby.

[Ref]

I have to say, as a SM, I would do whatever I could to back out of the spotlight. My Sd's BM is insanely jealous of me and has been from the moment she knew of my existance. At first I dreamed of us being the type of people who could talk to eachother on the phone about Sd's probems etc... unfortuantly between her drinking and emotional problems that was not going to ever happen. It has been 12 years and she is still hostile toward me, so I let her get her way in this. It actually benefits you to stay out of the way and your boyfriend was the one to lay down with the ex, so let him deal with it.

As far as overnights, there is no reason he should not be allowed to have the child overnight. The only problem is, without a parenting agreement, your boyfriend has not rights, so LEGALLY he can't have the baby overnight.

My advice. Get a great lawyer and file papers (you CAN help him here). Make sure he asks for everything to be spelled out. Look up some of the parenting plans here and draft something up.

Good Luck
Ref

[starlabrite]

I don't really think that I am a key problem in this issue.  After being too depressed for several months and not having enough money for it, my boyfriend finally got the nerve and opportunity to consult with a lawyer.  Please understand that what I have said to him about seeing a lawyer is very limited, and his parents have said a lot on the issue, but ultimately, he's been wanting to see a lawyer since before the baby was born.  His ex just had him too depressed, and at the time, he didn't have the right amount of "lawyer money."  The first step he will be taking is to have the lawyer send his ex a letter asking for the amount of visitation he wants.  All she has to do is sign the letter and send it back.  My boyfriend believes this is going to create some tension, because she won't agree to it, but it's the first step he is able to take, as he is completely unhappy going to his ex's house to see his daughter.  He wants to have his own time with her, and even being in that house makes him depressed.  
I am not a subject that even gets discussed with his ex unless she brings it up, then my boyfriend tries to change the topic, as obviously it really is none of her business.  I have never met her, and I haven't met my boyfriend's daughter either.  I think it will be quite some time before I am able (if ever) to do so.  I can certainly understand how his ex would be emotional...but in a very real sense, she should be over any feelings of jealousy she might have had.  As I said, when their daughter was conceived, it was a fling...they had broken up six months previously.  At the time, she cared nothing for him, and all throughout her pregnancy, she made that very clear.  Prior to even conceiving a child, she claimed she couldn't use birth control and didn't want my boyfriend to use condoms, and because of that stupidity (on both of their parts) they put themselves at risk.  My boyfriend believes she wanted to have a baby in the first place...as I mentioned before, she is very controlling, and that would definitely give her something she craved.  He has obviously seen more of her personality than I have, but even he admits that she has a sickly malicious desire to control other people.  He says her mother is like that to.  And statistics show that daughters raised in such family's tend to keep that personality type...does that mean that my boyfriend's daughter will grow up to meet the same fate as her mother?  

[starlabrite]

I am not interfering with visits at all, as I have said, so she need not feel threatened by him.  It is true that she has no legal obligation to let him see the baby, but she claims to be a devout Christian, and she made a promise to the father to permit him to see his child.  I don't think promises should be so easily flung away.  My boyfriend is currently consulting with a lawyer to get legal custody of his daughter, not to mention unsupervised visitation.  She has no problem with him being at her house left alone with the baby when it's to her advantage (she wants to go to some even), but with any other scenario, she finds it problematic.  That simply doesn't make sense.

[melissa3]

If he's the first to get custody.

Father's, whether you want to believe it or not, should have the same rights as mothers. There is NO reason for why a Father shouldn't bond with his baby when it is very young. And there is no reason either parent should kiss the ass of the other to see their child!! This mother that the poster speaks about has no right to deny him his child. Legally she might, but morally she doesn't. Also, denying visitatioN isn't ALWAYS a mothers attempt to safegaurd her child; more often than not its a way of gaining control.

There is no reason a Father shouldn't have his baby alone for visitation or overnights. I don't understand why we still have this archaic belief that only women should care for the children in their early years. Are mothers the only ones that stay up late at night to cuddle and feed the children?? Absolutely not. In a married home, BOTH parents pick up the parenting responsibilities. Why should that change for divorced parents?

Women everywhere are fighting for "Equal Rights" on the bases that "women can do everything men can". If the statement "women are the same as men" is true then why can't we assume that men can do everything women can do??? It seems to me that some woman are not fighting for equality at all. It seems instead they are looking to be reconized as being greater than men. Neither sex is greater, we both need eachother (and eachothers differences) to survive.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is both mothers and fathers have the ability and should have the right to care for their child. Neither paretn should be considered "better" than the other and neither parent should take precident over the other (unless certain situations dictate otherwise.)

[Cookiemomma4]

>
>Women everywhere are fighting for "Equal Rights" on the bases
>that "women can do everything men can". If the statement
>"women are the same as men" is true then why can't we assume
>that men can do everything women can do??? It seems to me that
>some woman are not fighting for equality at all. It seems
>instead they are looking to be reconized as being greater than
>men. Neither sex is greater, we both need eachother (and
>eachothers differences) to survive.
>

This is not how all women feel or what all women are fighting for...some of us really do believe in equal rights.  I know many women who feel the same as I do although I do realize where you are coming from.  It is the same way with any group of people who have been oppressed for many years.  

[melissa3]

I do apologize.

Also, I'm sorry if I was abbrassive, I'm just a little frustrated =)

I recently looked at a site that was supposedly advocating Children's Best Interests in divorce cases. However, the articles were all about "mothers rights" and there was very little mentioned about the children. I was angry because the main objective of the site was to prove how woman get shafted in divorce. The site barely mentioned what was really important - the children!! This isn't the first site of this nature that I have found, either.

One of my other biggest problem with the woman on that site was they refused to believe there were actually decent men out there who really wanted to be a part of their children's lives. The message I got was all men are a$$holes because THEIR husbands/boyfriends screwed them over. It even gave advice on how to get a false restraining order to better your chances in getting fully custody!!! Nowhere did the site advocate both parents working together for the benefit of the child.

My advice is for both parents to work something out. If they can't come to a mutual agreement, then find something that works solely in the best interest of the child and leave emotions and hang-ups out of the mix.

 Good luck to you.

[Cookiemomma4]

And I totally agree with you and your views that it is about the children.  Screw the mother's rights and screw the father's rights...what about the kid's rights and sense of security and love!  Far too many people forget this  even when they are still togeather!  Children need to be the focus because they can't look out for their own best interests now can they?

I just get a little erked and speak up when people say that all woman are out to get the man and control this and that ect ect or that all men are deadbeat dads and can't nurture their child because as we all know this is not ALWAYS the case...

[Genie]

b/c they aren't married, she does have custody right now b/c she is the Mother and b/c baby lives with her.

So, your BF needs to go to court and get his paternity established, get CS set (that will be automatic - may be more or less than paying now) and ask for visitation.

That is your first step.  Don't delay on that.  Make it known that BF wants his overnights as well.  That is a fine line and can go either way with a judge. Look up the state's case law on how visitation is handled for babies.  I know IL has provisions in place till age of 2 yrs that can be used.

She can make an issue of your living arrangements and say she wants a morals clause which basically states no overnights stays for opposite sex when have baby which means no living together or no overnights.  Also, I believe you will need to get rid of your brother living there too.  Where would baby's room be if brother has 2nd bedroom.  She could make more issues about him living there as well.

So there are alot of issues here on both sides.  Do my step one and then take it from there. Get a good lawyer that will fight for BF and return calls promptly.