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Author Topic: The Ex had friend give "professional" opinion...  (Read 2633 times)

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The Ex had friend give "professional" opinion...
« on: Oct 13, 2004, 07:34:05 PM »
Well, I hope I'm in the right forum for this...

Anyway, the scenario:
The ex obtained (another) TRO against myself and my wife restraining me from allowing my wife to be at the exchanges of my son, claiming that my wife threatens, stalks, harasses, curses at, flips off, and taunts her, and verbally and physically abuses my son. Unfounded.

The ex obtained a declaration statement from her friend, a CMHS. This is what the declaration says:
"In my professional opinion, as a Children's Mental Health Specialist and counselor, I recommend a Guardian Ad Litem be appointed to investigate parenting and behavioral allegations and make professional recommendations for visitation schedule for [my son]. The behavior exhibited by the adults in this case has been antagonistic and evidence of attempts at Parent Alienation. It is in [my son's] best interest to provide a safe and non-hostile environment for visitation and transportation exchanges."

What I'm wondering is this:
If this person is giving their "professional opinion", shouldn't they have seen the child in question in a professional capacity? To my knowledge, this person has never counseled my son in any professional manner. My son has never stated that he has seen this person in any type of professional manner. This person has never seen me or my wife in any type of professional manner. This person doesn't state that they have seen my son in any type of professional manner.

Any advise on how I might be able to discredit this person's opinion based on the above, or in any other way, would be great.


joni

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RE: The Ex had friend give
« Reply #1 on: Oct 14, 2004, 06:17:32 PM »

This may not be a bad thing.  It's is ambiguous, it says the "adults".  It doesn't single out you and your wife.

Remember, this will also keep your Ex in line too and keep her from making false allegations.  

I remember our GAL recommended exchanging at McDonalds.  This...after my DH's ex....threw everything, including the kitchen sink at him to see what false allegations would stick [eventually...nothing did].

I said....no way baby....we want these exchanges at the Police Dept because I didn't trust his Ex wife to make more false allegations.  What do you know...it worked.

Might be a blessing in disguise.  YOu could have your atty write a letter back to the Ex, agree with the recommendation stating that his client [you] thinks it would be a good thing to keep the Ex wife from making false allegations against his client.

MYSONSDAD

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Question?
« Reply #2 on: Oct 14, 2004, 08:00:33 PM »
Am I reading your question correctly? You want to know if her friends statement will hold weight in court, correct?

I would say it is totally bias. Make sure your attorney is informed that they are friends.

I would also think that they would need documented proof of the child seeing this woman before the TRO was filed.

Any chance you could get the ex's phone records, calling this friend, like in a friendly phone call? Could find them guilty of coercion. Things could get a little sticky for both of them...

Your attorney would have to supeana the records.

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hagatha

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Two things I see . . .
« Reply #3 on: Oct 14, 2004, 08:25:22 PM »


First being, unless you have a witness that will testify that her alligations are false, this is just another "he said/she said" hearing. Never, ever go anywhere without independent witnesses.

Second, her friends opinion is actually based on what she (the friend) has been told by the ex. Therefore at a hearing she can be easily discredited with te simple question "What have you PERSONALLY witnessed at the transfers?" Since she hasn't participated she can not claim you or your wife have acted negatively. You can of course turn this around on ex by asking if ex's behavior at the exchange and as a whole is facilitating a positive influence.

However, her advise such as it is, is sound. The exchanges should be positive. Therefore you need a friend and wither a video camera or a recording device with you at all times.

Also the friend will not have had to see your child in a professional manner to have a valid opinion in the court's eyes. All she needs is to have talked to the child as a friend. But you can and should state bias on friends part since she is too closely assiciated with mom and son may not express true feelings to her assuming she will tell mom and mom will be upset.

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RE: Question?
« Reply #4 on: Oct 15, 2004, 09:24:08 AM »
>Am I reading your question correctly? You want to know if her
>friends statement will hold weight in court, correct?

Yes, that is my question.
>
>I would say it is totally bias. Make sure your attorney is
>informed that they are friends.
>
Actually, the first line of her statement was this: "The Ex picks up my son from school Monday- Friday as needed. My son prefers to be at The Ex's house after school and she provides excellent care for him."
She also entered a declaration in October 2002, which she declared herself a friend of the ex. So there's already documentation with the court that the ex and this woman have a LONG time friendship. So I don't have to supeana anyone for anything, as the friend has already documented herself the relationship she has with the ex. This might sound evil, but I just LOVE it when I can use their own documentation against them! ))

>I would also think that they would need documented proof of
>the child seeing this woman before the TRO was filed.
>
There is none. Even this woman doesn't claim that she's seeing/seen my son in any kind of professional capacity.

>Any chance you could get the ex's phone records, calling this
>friend, like in a friendly phone call? Could find them guilty
>of coercion. Things could get a little sticky for both of
>them...
>
That's what I was thinking, the coercion thing. Although the friend doesn't "blame" either side for parental alienation, it's pretty clear by her relationship to the ex who she feels is doing the alienation to whom.


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RE: The Ex had friend give
« Reply #5 on: Oct 15, 2004, 09:41:08 AM »
>
>This may not be a bad thing.  It's is ambiguous, it says the
>"adults".  It doesn't single out you and your wife.
>
Very true, but the friend has already established (see previous post) her very LONG relationship to the ex.
>Remember, this will also keep your Ex in line too and keep her
>from making false allegations.  
>
>I remember our GAL recommended exchanging at McDonalds.
>This...after my DH's ex....threw everything, including the
>kitchen sink at him to see what false allegations would stick
>[eventually...nothing did].
>
>I said....no way baby....we want these exchanges at the Police
>Dept because I didn't trust his Ex wife to make more false
>allegations.  What do you know...it worked.
>
Nothing is going to keep the ex in line. She's a narcissist, and nothing short of jail will stop the ex from trying to get my son from me. We've already set up a public meeting place for the exchanges, and my wife makes sure that she stays in the school office when she has to pick up my son from school, but the allegations KEEP COMING. The ex accuses my wife of screaming at her, threatening her, taunting her and flipping her off at the school, yet we've gotten a statement from the principle of the school stating that my wife is always curtious and respectful to everyone, including the ex.

>Might be a blessing in disguise.  YOu could have your atty
>write a letter back to the Ex, agree with the recommendation
>stating that his client [you] thinks it would be a good thing
>to keep the Ex wife from making false allegations against his
>client.

The only thing that concerns me about a GAL (besides the cost) is that the allegations are TOTALLY UNFOUNDED. Always have been, always will be. If I acquiesce to her request, I'm concerned that it will be like I'm admitting there is truth to the ex's allegations. And getting a GAL appointed won't prevent the ex from making false allegations. Even when she's confronted with her lies, she doesn't show any embarassment or even acknowledge that she was caught. It's very disconcerting.

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RE: Two things I see . . .
« Reply #6 on: Oct 15, 2004, 10:14:53 AM »
>
>
>First being, unless you have a witness that will testify that
>her alligations are false, this is just another "he said/she
>said" hearing. Never, ever go anywhere without independent
>witnesses.
>
Sad, isn't it? It's come to the point where my wife or I can't even pick up my son for fear of being accused of something horrible.

>Second, her friends opinion is actually based on what she (the
>friend) has been told by the ex. Therefore at a hearing she
>can be easily discredited with te simple question "What have
>you PERSONALLY witnessed at the transfers?" Since she hasn't
>participated she can not claim you or your wife have acted
>negatively. You can of course turn this around on ex by asking
>if ex's behavior at the exchange and as a whole is
>facilitating a positive influence.
>
Exactly what I was thinking. Since the friend has already established that she has been friends with the ex for over 2 years, and relies on the ex for child care very frequently, it seems that she would have a VERY hard time establishing an unbiased opinion about what is going on, especially since she hasn't been to any of the exchanges for over 2 years, and hasn't, by her own statement, been at the school very often. I've only seen her there twice in two years. The last time, she had her son come up to me and ask me if I was my son's dad. Apparently, it'd been so long since she had seen me, she wasn't sure who I was.

>However, her advise such as it is, is sound. The exchanges
>should be positive.

Actually, I really don't see any kind of problem at the exchanges. I don't talk to the ex, she doesn't talk to me. The same when I have to have my wife do it. Neither of them talk to each other. My son gets out of our car and goes to the ex's car, then we drive away.

>Therefore you need a friend and wither a
>video camera or a recording device with you at all times.
>
Can't, Washington is a two party state, and I can't see the ex actually agreeing with any proposal having to do with an unbiased observer in the form of audio and/or video recording. The only thing that she has in support of her allegations is the fact that there IS nothing on tape. She hasn't supplied any kind of evidence to support her allegations. Mainly because there is no evidence. And bringing a witness to the exchanges only seems to exacerbate the situation. My wife brought her friend at the last exchange, and the ex flipped my wife's friend off, in front of my son. There weren't even any words exchanged, and the ex hadn't ever seen my wife's friend before that day.

>Also the friend will not have had to see your child in a
>professional manner to have a valid opinion in the court's
>eyes. All she needs is to have talked to the child as a
>friend. But you can and should state bias on friends part
>since she is too closely assiciated with mom and son may not
>express true feelings to her assuming she will tell mom and
>mom will be upset.
>
Well, I would assume that there's a difference between a friend's opinion and a professional giving an opinion, even in the court's eyes. Even GAL's have guidlines when it comes to that, and I'm assuming that they also have them for counselors.
The friend first established in her statement that she depended on the ex for child care and that the friend's son prefered to stay at the ex's house after school (not sure what that says about the friend's house). THEN she gave her "professional opinion". It seems strange to me that if she was giving this statement in a professional capacity, that she wouldn't have mentioned the friendship or child care in the first place. Now, I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into this, but it seems to me that if you establish a relationship FIRST, then establish a professional opinion SECOND, that what's being said is that you're giving your opinion with that relationship in mind.

But, again, maybe I'm reading too much into this. It's hard to establish any kind of rational thinking process during these things. I know you know what I mean. ;-)

Kitty C.

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But you CAN.........
« Reply #7 on: Oct 15, 2004, 10:19:19 AM »
Washington may be a two party state when it comes to private conversations, but if you're videotaping in PUBLIC, anything goes.  There's not a damn thing she can do about it, either.
Handle every stressful situation like a dog........if you can't play with it or eat it, pee on it and walk away.......

MYSONSDAD

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RE: Two things I see . . .
« Reply #8 on: Oct 15, 2004, 11:59:58 AM »


From the information I am reading in this, it says, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. I really don't see this holding up in court. You could always ask the court for a court appointed 'professional opinion.' Sounds like a lot going on behind closed doors.

I think Kitty is right, tape, ask your attorney too  and there is nothing wrong with someone parked on the oposite side of the street. A street is public domain. Just don't let them be too obvious!

"Children learn what they live"

doood

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RE: Two things I see . . .
« Reply #9 on: Oct 19, 2004, 05:40:10 PM »
regarding taping in washington:
http://www.rcfp.org/taping/states/washington.html

////////The all-party consent requirement can be satisfied if "one party has announced to all other parties engaged in the communication or conversation, in any reasonably effective manner, that such communication or conversation is about to be recorded or transmitted." In addition, if the conversation is to be recorded, the requisite announcement must be recorded as well.////////

////////Whether a communication is considered "private" under the statute depends on the factual circumstances. Among the factors considered are the subjective intent of the parties; the reasonableness of their expectation of privacy; the duration and subject matter of the communication; the location of the communication and the presence of third parties; and the relationship between the consenting party and the non-consenting party. State v. Townsend, 57 P.2d 255 (Wash. 2002). A person who sends e-mail to another person has consented to the "recording" of that e-mail. Id.////////

i think if you send her a certified letter stating that you intend to audio tape all future phone and face-to-face contact then she will have no reason to expect privacy.  check with your lawyer though....

 

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