Looking for both sides of the fence

[MrsMoRunion]

I'm looking for a little "ammunition"...my husband and I have both been married before (no big surprise there). I have two children, 18 and 14 - he has one child, 12. The 18 year old lives with us, the 14 year old lives with his father and the 12 year old with his mother.

The 12-year old is really into horses, he contests almost all year long, 9 months out of the year, anyway. My husband and I vacation with our children the last 2 weeks of July every year. This year, his mother has filed a motion with the court and forced us into mediation because our vacation will interfere with his participation in the State Fair.

Now, before anyone thinks I'm a complete wacko, she also provided us with a calendar that has events scheduled EVERY weekend that we are scheduled to have him all summer long. That schedule actually started back in February. Since February, we've had 2 weekends without her scheduling something, from now until Halloween weekend, we don't have a single free weekend! No weekend camping trips, no weekends at the lake, no weekends anywhere because she's got every single Saturday scheduled. Not to mention a week in June for 4-H camp, a week in August for the county fair, every Monday night for riding lessons and every Thursday night for a horse show until August. Shall I go on?

The real kicker here is the fact that we're not contesting ANY OTHER WEEKEND! We're just asking that our vacation not be interrupted. Yesterday the mediator suggested that we bring him home for the ONE DAY at the fair and then we can go back. We said no, we feel that she should have to be inconvenienced and she should have to come get him and bring him back to us! Now, her response...he shouldn't have to be drug around like a rag doll (mental note: remember the schedule that he has for the summer already)!

Now, this child is not on any professional course. He runs barrels locally, his ambition this year is to win the youth division and get his NBHA champ saddle. Our vacation does not interfere with any of his NBHA shows. However, he is not only running in NBHA shows but 4-H shows and is participating in FFA horse judging activities. His mother has him convinced that we have no concern for his feelings and he has stated that he doesn't want to go on vacation because he wants to go to the fair. I guess our attitude with regard to that comment is that it's been fueled by his mother and it doesn't really matter to us because we know the minute we get underway, he'll have a blast and be over the fair thing. It's just her keeping the pot stirred.  Sorry, don't want to sound uncaring, but there will be other fairs.  We told them, next year we'll schedule around it.

This woman has the audacity to say that we are being selfish to want this vacation time to ourselves and feels that we don't care about him because he will have to miss the fair in order to go on vacation. This IS NOT a once in a lifetime opportunity for him, it is something he can do every year for the next 50 years if he wants to!

I guess I'm just looking for both sides, maybe I'm being unrealistic here, but we are at a loss and have already spent hours trying to resolve this to no avail! Even if you want to play devil's advocate, it may help me in combating what she has to say in the next meeting!!!

Oh yeah, and did I mention that if things can't be worked out in mediation, she's requesting a change in custody.  They currently have a shared parenting plan, but she wants full custody.  Even though we have shared, we still only get EOW, W eves and alternating holidays.

Thank you all so much!

[joni]

I'd say screw the mediator's recommendation.  You've been more than flexible with this child.  Considering that this state fair is not part of his point tally towards a NBHA championship, you're not interferring with anything more than a practice.  

Make a calendar, color code it showing all the weekends you've either missed or been interferred with.  The colors can literally be very vivid to see at a glance.

Contact the NBHA and get their show schedule to prove this doesn't interfere with the child's competition points.

Be stubborn and stick to your guns.  Be kind and sweet to the mediator but stick to your guns.  Worse case, you go before the judge, I think you'd have a strong case to win.

IMHO, clearly this mom is using these competitions as a guise to frustrate you.

[Mediator]

The mediator has no power in this decision and you should only agree to what you feel comfortable with.   Based soley on what you have shared it seems reasonable to be able to go on vacation without attending the fair.  Of course you will have to contend with the child's dissapointment regardless of its fuel source.  

An alternative to fighting about this now is to schedule next years vacation ahead of time and have the mother schedule the child's events around that vacation.  The mother will either agree or demonstrate a control issue that the court will probably not tolerate.

By making accomodations this year as a package for future years you avoid a fight and potentially gain support.  If you do agree on future years I would suggest having it signed off by the court as an agreed upon mechanism to determine activities.  You can state in the agreement that by a certain date your vacation time will be set and no events will be scheduled by mom for the child during that period.  If you know in advance what month the vacation time is I would suggest stating that mom is not to schedule any events during that month until she receives your vacation shedule.

This strategy demonstrates mutual respect and collaborative parenting.

[MrsMoRunion]

We have a proposed plan to take into our next meeting.  She is never going to waiver.  She wants him all the time and would be perfectly happy if we dropped off the face of the earth.  She really hates me because before my hubby and I got together, she used to tell him what to do all the time, limiting his visits, never giving him holidays, etc.  When he complained about it, I went to the courthouse and picked up a copy of his divorce papers and told him to take what was his!  She's hated me ever since.  I even went to this woman to talk to her mom to mom, but to no avail.

Someone suggested that all these things she is planning for him are things she wanted to be able to do as a kid but never had the opportunity, now is living vicariously thru him.

We have everything written out, which holidays we get and when as well as the fact that we will return for his thing at the Fair.  When we will arrive, etc.  We've also got a proposal to realign custody during the summer so that we have him during the week, every other weekend and 2 weeks uninterrupted for vacation.  We have already selected 2 weeks that should not interfere with any of the big stuff for anyone next year (there are 2 other kids to schedule around too!).  

The one thing that would really help is how to use decorum but yet combat her derogatory comments about everything from my job, our finances to my children (which really irritates me).  She takes every opportunity out of ear shot to call my husband and I names.  It's really childish but I certainly don't want to stoop to her level.  I'd like to put her in her place, but don't want to look like an ass in the process.

Thank you all again for your help with this, sometimes a clear head can produce much better results.

[Mediator]

It will only be a few more years that you will have to contend with her.  You are correct in assessing the challenge as how to do combat gracefully.  You can certainly stick to your guns and not respond in kind to her personal attacks.  After all this is your child's bio parent and the adult relationships around him will affect him and teach him.

[Ref]

BM is going to make you out as not "respecting" the fact that SS has a life. She will make herself out to be SS's protector from you, the people that don't ever listen to him.

We have had a ton of problems with our PBFH about this. SD has been put in the middle of all sorts of things, told a bunch of things that she shouldn't and manipulated so that she thinks her dad doesn't understand. This got bad at about 12. The only way to combat it is to be in his life as much as possible and explain the issues you have, how you would love to be able to let him do his events and you know it sucks BUT DH needs to have him with him because ...(he loves him, misses him, wants to show him how to do something or see someone). Let him know that you are torn, but DH made a call and it was because he thought it was best.

As far as your PBFH saying things about you and your family infront of the children. I think you should have your DH write a letter telling her that it is inappropriate and to save all comments for when there are no children around. It probably wont stop her, but it will give her fair warning. Then, if she does it again ask her infront of the children to please save those types of comments for when the children are not around and if she would like to discuss it with you or hubby, then you would be happy to talk with more privacy. The kids will see you as being the adult in the room and you would have handled it with grace.

Good Luck!

Ref
 

[MrsMoRunion]

>BM is going to make you out as not "respecting" the fact that
>SS has a life. She will make herself out to be SS's protector
>from you, the people that don't ever listen to him.   OH HOW RIGHT YOU ARE ON THIS ONE!!!  WE'RE SELFISH, DON'T CARE ABOUT HIS FEELINGS AND ARE JUST BAD PEOPLE!
>
>We have had a ton of problems with our PBFH (THIS IS GREAT!  DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PICK UP ON THAT ONE, BUT IT'S GREAT!!!)about this. SD has
>been put in the middle of all sorts of things, told a bunch of
>things that she shouldn't and manipulated so that she thinks
>her dad doesn't understand. This got bad at about 12 (HE'S 12 RIGHT NOW). The only
>way to combat it is to be in his life as much as possible and
>explain the issues you have, how you would love to be able to
>let him do his events and you know it sucks BUT DH needs to
>have him with him because ...(he loves him, misses him, wants
>to show him how to do something or see someone). Let him know
>that you are torn, but DH made a call and it was because he
>thought it was best.  I DID TALK TO A FRIEND WHO IS A TEACHER AND SHE FEELS THAT SHE MAY BE TRYING TO COMPENSATE FOR SOMETHING THAT SHE MISSED WHILE SHE WAS A KID AND IS TRYING TO LIVE THROUGH HIM.  I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT SET HER OFF, I THINK IT WAS THE FACT THAT WE WOULDN'T SEND HIM BACK HOME DURING SPRING BREAK, SHE WAS WORKING, I HAD TAKEN SOME TIME OFF, SO DID MY HUBBY.  WHEN SHE'S NOT HOME, SS MUST REMAIN IN THE HOUSE ALL DAY!!!  SHE WASN'T OFF WORK AND WHEN SHE STARTED PUSHING FOR US TO BRING HIM BACK HOME (BY THE WAY, EASTER AND SPRING BREAK WERE OUR HOLIDAY) I DID GET TICKED AND TOLD HER TO GET A LAWYER!  GUESS THAT DID IT.
>
>As far as your PBFH saying things about you and your family
>infront of the children. I think you should have your DH write
>a letter telling her that it is inappropriate and to save all
>comments for when there are no children around. It probably
>wont stop her, but it will give her fair warning. Then, if she
>does it again ask her infront of the children to please save
>those types of comments for when the children are not around
>and if she would like to discuss it with you or hubby, then
>you would be happy to talk with more privacy. The kids will
>see you as being the adult in the room and you would have
>handled it with grace.  SHE REALLY DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING IN FRONT OF THE KIDS, ITS WHAT SHE SAYS ABOUT THE KIDS THAT IRRITATES ME.  SHE MADE SOME COMMENT ABOUT MY WAGES BEING GARNISHED, WHICH WE HAVE NOT IDEA WHERE THAT CAME FROM!  SHE HAS JUST GONE OFF THE DEEP END AND SHE REALLY FEELS THAT WE'RE JUST AWFUL PEOPLE!  HER RESPONSE TO THE QUESTION OF MAKING UP TIME MISSED IS THAT WE SHOULD BE THERE FOR ALL OF HIS EVENTS AND THEN WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO MAKE UP THE TIME.  MOST OF THESE SHOWS ARE HOURS AWAY.  WE HAVE A NEW HOME TO TAKE CARE OF, AND IN ALL HONESTY, IT'S NOT REALLY WORTH DRIVING 4 OR 5 HOURS TO SEE HIM RIDE FOR LESS THAN 20 SECONDS AND THEN RUN OFF AND PLAY WITH HIS BUDDIES.  WE GO TO THE SHOWS THAT ARE CLOSE.  SS TREATS MY HUSBAND LIKE HE DOESN'T EXIST WHEN HIS MOTHER IS AROUND, ALWAYS HAS.  MY POOR HUBBY GETS THE SHORT END OF THE STICK BUT I'VE ALWAYS TOLD HIM THAT SS WILL REMEMBER HIM BEING THERE WHEN HE GETS OLDER.  MY KIDS DON'T HAVE THAT WITH THEIR DAD, HE NEVER GOES TO ANYTHING.  SHE DOESN'T REALIZE HOW GOOD SHE HAS IT.

THE THING THAT IS REALLY IRRITATING IS THAT SHE DOESN'T THINK ANYTHING OF THIS.  SHE THINKS WE'RE JUST TRYING TO COMPLICATE HER LIFE.  THE THOUGHT NEVER DAWNED ON HER TO CALL US AND CHECK TO MAKE SURE SHE WASN'T SCHEDULING ANYTHING THAT INTERFERED WITH OUR LIVES BECAUSE THAT JUST DOESN'T MATTER TO HER.  IT'S ALL ABOUT HER!  NOT SS, HER!

I'M SO GLAD THIS IS HERE, I WOULD JUST ABOUT BE AT WITS END (NEARLY THERE ALREADY).  YOU'VE ALL HAD SUCH GOOD INFO AND I THANK YOU FOR YOUR INPUT.
>
>Good Luck!
>
>Ref
>

[Ref]

It's scary. I would blow off any craziness she says to you. My SD's mom is the same way. She always accuses DH of trying to be difficult or playing some kind of game, just to upset HER! All he wants is to be able to be a good dad to his daughter. That is how self centered some of these people are. It's always a conspiracy against THEM....ARRRRGH.

I hope everything works out. Keep us posted.

(By the way, people get upset if you post with all caps. It reads as though you are yelling)

Take Care
Ref

[MrsMoRunion]

Sorry, won't do that again unless I am yelling!!!

[dontunderstand]

Your parenting plan sounds as crappy as ours!  What state are you in?  Does she have to make up the weekends that you are missing.  Here if you don't get your weekend for WHATEVER excuse BM has, the time missed must be made up within 2 weeks or BM can be held in contempt.  Check in your state.  Also I don't think that you should have to give up your vacation.  She knew what your vacation plans were and still planned and promised something else.  Any court in their right mind would not make you change your time.  Time with dad is far more important than a horse competition.  Don't let her bully or blackmail you!  

[MrsMoRunion]

Basically what she is doing is saying if you don't agree to my terms I'm going to try and get full custody.  It has forced us into this mediation thing which is futile.  She won't budge and my poor husband just wants it to be over so badly.

We are in Ohio and in this county in particular, the judge was so old school (original divorce took place 11 years ago) that she had agreed on paper to give him more parenting time but the judge said no father has any business caring for an infant and refused to approve the agreement!  Thats how hubby got stuck with the alt weekends and one day a week.  He used to have alt weekends, every Thurs and alt Tues, but the last time she got ticked, she took away the Tues and we went to Wed eves.

Her claim on the vacation thing is that we already had her list of planned activities, but we booked our cabin last October!  She doesn't have a clue, her idea of vacation is a week at the county fair (and I'm NOT kidding).

Fortunately or unfortunately, we won't make it into court before our vacation, it's just the fact that we have to go to mediation every other week and listen to her complain about everything until we go on vacation.  She is totally unwilling to make up the days missed.  It does say that an "effort should be made," but she has him so scheduled with stuff that it's virtually impossible.

She's also ticked because we just bought our own house.  She's still living in a house trailer that she rents near the barn where she keeps her horses.  She's complaining that we've moved so far away.  She lived about 3 miles away from here and moved about 40 minutes the other direction.  We haven't moved more than 10 minutes from where we started originally.

Like I said, my husband and I have already decided to bring him back for his thing at the fair, but on our terms.  But we have also decided to ask for more parenting time during the summer, like all week (M-F) long giving her the alternating weekends and one weekday as well as 2 weeks for vacation (for a trip to the local fair LOL).  That way, missing a few Saturdays won't be quite the hassel that it is now.

[dontunderstand]

That is such crap!  We lost our vacation too!  We live in WA and we had tickets to FL.  mom also agreed to let us take SD. Later she said it could only happen on her terms and that was to sign the BS parenting plan that her attorney drafted it was every other weekend, period.  No holidays, or summer etc.  We said NO and when we went to court she lied and said that she never said SD could go!  and then she said that we refused to give her contact numbers and that we don't know SD well enough (what?) and she might wonder off...SD is 7 and very good! (I don't know how she turned out so well BM is psycho.!!!)  So needless to say, the comissioner said we couldn't take her in June, but we can have a week in Aug. and we can reschedule our vacation (and tickets) then!  It is all such BS!
 I would take her to court on the grounds that there is a change in circumstances in the current parenting plan (you aren't getting your visits) and that you need a different schedule with more time...I so understand dealing with these BM's is so weird to me, I can't imagine doing this to my daughters dad and I can not stand him!...

[prince13]

This one sounds just like ours, too! I know she is telling the kids well, your Dad just doesn't understand that you have a life, too, etc etc...
because once again she is attempting to have the kids lose out on more time with their Dad despite what the counselor has told her. She thought DH and counselor were ganging up on her. Duh....DH has always put the kids first like the counselor was doing. She doesnt' get it.

Heck, she is a frequent flier in court. She must think she gets a discount after so many visits! I wish she would figure out that parenting is NOT a popularity contest. She isn't a parent (the Judge told her to start being one last time and I hope it does it again a week from Monday), she is going for Mom of the year by trying to be their friend! What a joke!