hearing held i was unaware

[jenjen]

state of florida

Greetings soc
                                                                                                 about a year ago
My 2 sons were removed from me on allegations of abuse, placed with aunt on other bio/parents side of family, judge ordered them returned 3 months later.


recieved letter from child support that a hearing was held and child support ordered for me to pay almost 5000.00 to aunt. order says children were with aunt for a year.

aunt didnt appear for court according to court papers i recieved.
and other bio/parent not orered to pay support.

order says other bio/parent resides in south africa, court records show a local address.


Questions:

1.  (any party affected by this order may move to vacate this order by filing a motion to vacate within 10 (ten) days from the entry of this order) what does this mean?


2. if the aunt or i prepared a motion  to vacate for the aunt, will this stop them from from taking this money?

3. if so, and it was you how would you write  a motion to vacate.


4. is it proper for the court to except that the bio/mom live in south africa without proof from the dept of revenue?


thanks you in advance

[socrateaser]

>Questions:
>
>1.  (any party affected by this order may move to vacate this
>order by filing a motion to vacate within 10 (ten) days from
>the entry of this order) what does this mean?

Means that you have 10 days to file a motion to quash based on proof that the arrears calculation is incorrect. There are a number of arguments to show the order incorrect, but most of them are very difficult to prove.

If you were previously under no order for support and the other parent was ordered to pay support, then under federal law, the FL court cannot impose an order for retroactive support against you, for any amount owed prior to the date of filing the request to modify. However, if you were never ordered to pay support and neither was the other parent, then the court can establish a new order for support and provide a retroactive effect.

This is the easiest argument to make, but I don't know if it applies to your facts.

The other arguments are more difficult and would require many more facts. Frankly, you're gonna need a local attorney if you want to shave some bucks off of that $5K, because I can't possibly give you enough info in this forum to accomplish it -- it's way too difficult.

So, you need to determine whether you want to pay an attorney $1-2K to save you $5K, because that's how it's gonna come out -- I will pretty much guarantee this one.
>
>2. if the aunt or i prepared a motion  to vacate for the aunt,
>will this stop them from from taking this money?

If you are saying that the aunt is prepared to stipulate to a different amount or no amount, then that would be the way to defeat the order, UNLESS the aunt received public assistance (welfare) and assigned the state her rights to support -- in the latter case, you are screwed totally, so get out your checkbook, because the state wants its money back and it will spend ten times the amount actually owed to obtain it (yes, I know that's ridiculous, but this is government we're talking aobut and wasting money is what government does best).

>
>3. if so, and it was you how would you write  a motion to
>vacate.

I don't have enough facts to determine the proper filings.

>
>1. is it proper for the court to except that the bio/mom live
>in south africa without proof from the dept of revenue?

It's up to you to prove your case. First, you need to show how where the other parent lives is relevant to the case (it is, in my opinion, but, once again, I don't have near enough facts to understand what's goin' on here).

I would need to read the current order that you seek to stop -- I would need to know exactly what the aunt's position re the money is and what she's willing to do to stop the order, and I'd need to see all of the prior orders in your case.

For all of that I'd be charging you some serious coin, so you may as well pay a FL attorney who could actually step into the courtroom and help you.

[jenjen]

I had an order to pay support to the other parent years ago before i obtained custody of the children some 4 years ago. different case #

the aunt recieved temp custody for about 3 months upon allegations that i abused the children, children were returned to me and i have a court order for there return and custody.

the aunt i believe was told she had to sign papers for assist. when children were in her care, but the children were returned before she was approved and could use any of the benefits like medicaid,  she never used and lost food stamp card.

state is claiming that the children were in aunts care from sept 05 to sept 06, sept 06 is not even here yet. why dont they just say sept 07 since this is all basically hear say, they dont have any proof the children were gone for that length of time.


I can prove the length of time the children were with aunt, when children were returned and custody given back to me.  and aunt can state that she never used any assist for children.

I have 10 day to put something together to vacate this order.
I have 15 days to dispute the amount of childsupport the state is seeking. if garnishment begins my children and I will be homeless we are barely making it as it is with no help from the other parent or state assistance.

Question:
1. since the aunt never used any assist. for the children can we write/file some sort of motion to vacate this order based on that fact?

2. If the aunt starts to see's dollars signs and the dept. of revenue acting on her behalf makes fraudulent claims about the length of time
aunt had temp. custody and amount of assistance given to aunt can aunt be penalized/held in contempt for misleading the court?

[socrateaser]

>Question:
>1. since the aunt never used any assist. for the children can
>we write/file some sort of motion to vacate this order based
>on that fact?

Doesn't matter if she used the assistance. What matters is whether she is entitled to assistance during the time that she had custody or not, whether she has applied for reimbursement on the assistance, whether the state will pay her the money, and whether the aunt has assigned her right to support to the state. If all of the answers are "yes," then you will be responsible for reimbursing the state for the support that you would otherwise have owed during that time.

Your recourse is to sue the person who alleged that you abused your children. If that "person" is the state, then you can sue the state for violating your civil rights, one of which is the right to the custody of your children, and for negligence, assuming that the investigation was not conducted with due care.

I don't know the basis upon which this order against you has been made, and there may be only limited conditions upon which you can have it set aside. But, the bottom line is that if the state will pay for the child's care while in the aunt's custody, then you can be ordered to reimburse your share to the state. If there is another parent, then that parent can also be held liable for a portion of the repayment. However, in the absense of a valid support order, both parents are jointly and severally liable for their child(ren)'s support, and if the state can't reach the parent in South Africa, then the state will simply reach out and touch you, and it will be up to you to sue the other parent for equitable contribution -- which is a practical impossibility unless he/she returns to the USA or still has assets here, which is possible if there is investment money in a US institution.

>
>2. If the aunt starts to see's dollars signs and the dept. of
>revenue acting on her behalf makes fraudulent claims about the
>length of time aunt had temp. custody and amount of assistance given to aunt can aunt be penalized/held in contempt for misleading the
>court?

The amount of assistance provided thus far, as I stated, is irrelevant. What matters is what the aunt can get right now from the state. Whatever that amount is, you can be held responsible to reimburse.

As for fraud claims re the length of time, that would be something that you could use to offset your liability for payments made to the aunt during periods when she didn't actually have custody.

[lucky]

Soc,

In MN, the foster parents (whether relative or not) are paid a per diem for each child.  This is exclusive of any medical or food assistance.

In our experience, dh & his ex were required to both pay child support that together equaled the monthly per diem rate on their oldest child.

Could Florida have the same type of setup?

[em]Lucky

Lead your life so you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family parrot to the town gossip.
- Will Rogers[em]

[jenjen]

question:

1. Can the aunt vacate the order if she filed a motion stating that she    did not use or need any state assist.?

2. How can i determine if the aunt is entitled to state assitance for the 3 months the court placed the children in her care?

3. is the aunt entitled to child support for the 3 months children were in her care?

4. If the aunt and i explain that our family dont charge each other for caring for our own relatives will this matter?

5.  Can the state qualify the aunt for a year, two years or even three years of support and have me responsible for this amount even though the children were never in her custody for any of these lengths of time?


6. I have a younger daughter along with the two boys, she was not apart of the allegations and if I have to work a third or fourth job i wont be able to care for these children, (never home) can i assign custody of them to a relative (aunt doesnt want them) or have the state take them as it appears to be there goal?

[socrateaser]

>Soc,
>
>In MN, the foster parents (whether relative or not) are paid a
>per diem for each child.  This is exclusive of any medical or
>food assistance.
>
>In our experience, dh & his ex were required to both pay child
>support that together equaled the monthly per diem rate on
>their oldest child.
>
>Could Florida have the same type of setup?


Very possibly.

[jenjen]

I was just informed by the two teenagers that the aunt did recieve money for the children from the other parent. while they were in her care.

 If the court rules that aunt is only intitled to support while the children were in her care-3months. which would be about 1300.00 according to there monthly support order.


The other parent sent 1000.00


question:

1. could the court take this into consideration to offset the 1300.00 dollars? since both parents have an obligation of support and allow the other parent to come after me for the other half?

2. Is the aunt obligated to report this money for the children?

[socrateaser]

>question:
>
>1. could the court take this into consideration to offset the
>1300.00 dollars, since both parents have an obligation of
>support and allow the other parent to come after me for the
>other half?

It depends entirely on the text of the statute that the state is relying on as authority to demand your support payment.

Absent a statute, a person who provides necessaries for a child is entitled to reasonable compensation and both parents would be jointly liable. So if one parent paid $1,000, then that would release the other parent from the obligation for paying $1,000.

But, this is common law, and I can assure you that FL statutes will control this transaction. I just don't have time to research the relevant law for you, to determine your rights and duties.

>
>2. Is the aunt obligated to report this money for the
>children?

Probably, but it depends entirely on the controlling statute, about which I am uninformed.

[jenjen]

florida statue ch, 61.30 toward the end reads: in determining the retroactive award in such cases, the court shall consider the following.

17 (b) reads: all actual pyments made by the non-custodial parent to the custodial parent or child or third parties for the benefit of the child throughout the proposed retroactive period.

I can show the length of time the children were in the temp custody of aunt and can argue that support should only be considered for the actual time the children were in her care.

I can get affidavits from the sixteen and fourteen year old about the 1000.00 that was sent for there benefit threw the western union or money gram service from non-custodial parent.


1. if i prepare the motion to vacate for the aunt to sign how should it be written?

2. if the aunt refuses to cooperate how should my motion to vacate be written?

 3. if needed I'm sure money gram and westrn union keep a record of  who picks up money, and from who/were it was sent how might i get this information?

thank you


 

[socrateaser]

>1. if i prepare the motion to vacate for the aunt to sign how
>should it be written?

Your quoted statute doesn't provide sufficient info to permit me to give you a proper pleading, because I don't know the legal basis on which the state is relying to enforce this order, or how they are calculating your obligation.

>
>2. if the aunt refuses to cooperate how should my motion to
>vacate be written?

Same answer, sorry.

>
> 3. if needed I'm sure money gram and westrn union keep a
>record of  who picks up money, and from who/were it was sent
>how might i get this information?

If you have the serial number of the money order, then getting a copy is trivial -- the forms are available on both the western union and moneygram websites. But, if you don't have that serial number, then you have a major problem. You can send the two companies $40 and they will research the money order, buy you will also need to know the EXACT location where the money order was purchased, a time period during which it was purchased, the exact name of the person to whom it was made out, and the exact name of the person who signed the money order.

If you don't have all of that stuff, they won't research. Check out the websites for more info and the required forms. Your better course would be to subpoena discovery of the aunt's checking account and home that she deposited the money during that general period of time. That would be more interesting proof, especially if the aunt is unlikely to have any source of income where that kind of money could suddenly appear.

Obviously, if she cashed the money order for cash and never put it in an account, then you're screwed.

[jenjen]

according to the documents my obligation was an imputed amount.
i'll find out what the legal basis is the state is relying on to enforce this order.



the money was wired threw an amscot, and payed to her in cash, I'll check to see if amscot has its own wire service or if it was money gram or western union.