Looking for advice

[kevkermit]

I am seeking input on what I can include in parenting plan so that our children can attend sports and other social activities without the ncp causing problems and not allowing the children to participate.

Current order states: that the cp can enroll children in extracurricular activities and ncp is urged to participate. If extracurriculars interfere with ncp's time makeup time is allowed on the alternate sundays not to extend beyond 8:00pm.

Anytime that ncp seems to want to agree on something, the ncp insists on having the children until 9:30pm on the alternate Sundays which I have agreed to 9:00 pm but I feel I shouldn't have to keep giving into the ncp's every demand. School nights I feel 9:00pm is late enough.

ncp is making things very difficult and totally denied our children the opportunity to particpate in football and basketball this year.


Please offer suggestions as to what I might be able to get included in order.

Thanks in advance.

[MixedBag]

First off, I think you as the CP are very lucky to get the current wording that you have in your order in there.  There are CPs who "enroll" the children in so many activities and in the end the NCP can't form a relationship of their own with activities the children would enjoy with them.

We have to CPs in our mixed up family who have done this to us as NCPs and things aren't going to well for them in court right now.

I suggest that you propose alternative times that you could agree with if you're truly against the children returning at 9:30 pm on Sunday before a school night.

Give him 3 alternatives and make it attractive by "increasing" the amount of time he spends with the children.  You're talking about a 1/2 hour difference in opinion here....but to an NCP, time is valuable.  Every minute counts.

Here's some suggestions:

1.  pick up the children earlier.

2.  mid-week time with the children.

3.  monday or friday holiday when school is out to extend a 2-day weekend into 3 day weekends.

4.  extra days in connection with a school break

and last but not least, be open to the NCP's suggestion of when they would like to make up that time.  They know their schedule the best and when they would be able to have the time to spend with the children.

Then write up an agreement where both of you sign it and notorize the signatures.

Then do a joint motion and file the joint agreement with the court to get a judge to approve your JOINT decision.

Actually, you don't have to go that far, but if either one of you gets pi$$ed off at the other, taking it that far ensures protection to the other.

[kevkermit]

Thanks for the insight.  When I was trying to work with ncp regarding football, practices started his half of summer which happened to be the second half.  I did not know that practices were during the summer as son had never played high school football before.  If I had known, would have suggested that the ncp take first half of the summer so that it didnt interfere with parenting time.

Being that we have two children and one plays basketball and the other wanted to play football, three was major conflicts.  Our current order specifies make up time when extracurriculars interfer to be on the ncps alternate sundays not to extend beyond 8:00pm and I agreed to 9:00.

NCP was insisting on 9:30pm and lives 1/2 hr away therefore by the time I got kids home it would be 10:00pm and after 11:00pm by the time kids got to bed.  Besides which, I work midnights and usually go to sleep with the kids go to bed at 10:00pm.

Once I said I prefer to pick the kids up at 9:00pm the ncp said well I will have to think a bout it.  Then I received a letter in the mail stating that the only way the kids could participate in the extracurriculars is if I drove all over the state to pick them up and return them.  There was no way the ncp was going to cooperate with me regarding that matter.

I have offered in the past for the ncp to always keep the kids until 8:00pm on his alternate Sundays even if there is no time to makeup and the ncp refuses.

Have filed a motion with the friend of the court to have a more specific parenting plan.  

Just getting suggestions as to options as I am very open to trying to work things out.  No matter what I offer or how many options I throw out there the ncp isn't going to budge.
In the past have requested mediation several times and ncp refuses to attend, writes letter back to the friend of the court stating that the cp is not willing to compromise therefore feel the mediation should be cancelled.

I feel like I try my best to compromise and the ncp constantly blames me for not trying.

[MixedBag]

Huh???

What are the normal times he's supposed to have the children on his alternating weekends?

And If I read your latest response right, the order ALREADY extends the return time to 8:pm if there are extracurricular activities on his weekends?

And also, if you're talking high school and junior high school aged kids, the flip side is that getting them home by 10 pm on a Sunday night ISN'T totally too late for them since they are OLDER.

What time do they normally go to bed?

Mine went to bed around 9 pm until they hit junior high -- then it was 10 pm.  And they still didn't go right to sleep and maybe read a book for a bit.  So yes, every other weekend, they'd get home at 10 pm and wind down for say 1/2 hour before going to bed....

Why NOT give it a try under the condition that IF they're grades don't slip AND if they get up on Monday to get to school with NO PROBLEMS (not being a sleepy head).

[kevkermit]

Normal times for weekends are from 6:00pm on Friday until 6:00pm on Sunday.

You are correct about the order extending time until 8:00pm on his alternate Sunday for make up time.

Kids are normally in bed 10:00pm on school nights.  I go to bed at 10:00pm as I work midnights.  
Another problem with his 9:30 request is that I pick my youngest son up at the same time as my older two children (meet his father at a gas station just down the road from where my oldest children get picked up) and my youngest son's dad is driving about an hour away.  

ONce I pick the kids up I have to drive home thats a half hour, time kids get ready for bed and settled in it will be after 11:00pm.  

My ex deliberately picked 9:30 because he knew as we have discussed in the past that I prefer not to extend past 9:00pm.

He was being so insistant on it that I finally agreed to the 9:30 but only for the two nights during drivers ed.  After that he wrote back stating that he would just give up his midweek time during drivers ed and on his fridays if I want I can drive our son to his house after drivers ed is over.  

My attorney is scheduling a hearing with the friend of the court and I have some options for makeup time when extracurriculars interfere with his time.  My main concern is ensuring that our children are not denied to play sports because the ncp won't participate or allow me to take them.

This year both children were denied football and basketball because my ex wanted me to drive all over the state wherever he was camping pick the kids up, take them to practices and then return them to him after practice.

[MixedBag]

Just be careful, I'm not sure I would agree with your position totally.

This sentence that you wrote really sits wrong with me -- and remember, I'm a CP, NCP, step-NCP, and step-CP(although those two are emancipated), and as NCPs, both my husband and I have "won" contempt motions against our EXs (separate courts, separate states, separate judges) for this philosophy:

You wrote:  "My main concern is ensuring that our children are not denied to play sports because the ncp won't participate or allow me to take them.

This year both children were denied football and basketball because my ex wanted me to drive all over the state wherever he was camping pick the kids up, take them to practices and then return them to him after practice."

[kevkermit]

What are you not liking about what I said, maybe I worded something wrong.  

I do understand that my ex is entitled to his time.  Just for informational purposes my ex tried to get me for contempt back in 2000 and the case was thrown out before we ever went into the courtroom.  I have been down that road.   That is why I feel it is so important to get an order that is more specific to protect both of us.

I truthfully feel that as a parent that the ncp should want to particiipate and I know that he cant be forced however our children should not be denied especially if it is only one sport per year.  Now if the children were enrolled in a bunch of activities I could understand it but they aren't.

Guess I don't understand what you are saying and why.

[wendl]

I know where you are coming from, But how others may take that portion is that sports are more important than spending time with the other parent.

Per our current order it states he has make up time on xx days until 8pm. I have tried to work with Mr Ex however he has been making the exchange later and later, I do I not feel it is in our best interest of the children to be returning home so late on a school night.  In light of this, I suggest bla bla bla maybe offer or for go one or two long weekends for his make up time.


**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[gipsy]

why don't you have the ncp drop the kids at school on monday ! If he can do that , Give  the NCP the option ! Like  The NCP is fully capable of getting the kids to school . Getting divorced suddenly doesn't disqualify the NCP from Dropping the kids, or does it ?
  I am soooo glad I get to pick my son from school , On One weekday visit , Then at  first grade I pick up at school on My weekend , And I wish I could drop off at school on Monday < Wich leaves virtually zero viewing of the control freak ! For some wierd reason the court doesn't see this ,  If their is such problems it seems the less contact with each other the better ! My psycho seems to want to see me at the transfers . I told the judge I wanted all pick up and drop off's at the school . The judge gave me the pick up's at the school . And said " there seems to be no love lost " Well Heck whaT DO  you expect when one parent constantly tries to control , Just because there is a divorce !
  ASK your self what would be normal If you did not divorce ,
  Would the NCP drop off at school , Or is his inability [In your opinion ] to drop off at school canceled because you are divorced !1

[kevkermit]

That is a good idea, just doubt he'll go for it considering it would mean him driving the kids to school.  Normally I pick the kids up from visits.  Is a good suggestions thought think I might use that one as an option.

He and his wife both informed me that they have a problem making more than one trip to our town for the kids.

[breezy]

There are a ton of options *I see*
1st I think teen kids of divorce have it hard. This is a time they want to play sport, hang w/friend and not have parents :) So having to divide time between 2 household just adds to the chaos of their world.

Is it possible talk to ex and explain that he can have the 1st part of summer from here out so that kids can participate in summer sports programs. (1st talk to the coaches and ensure that practice is only the latter half of summer) Also make sure ex will take kids if 1st few days fall on his time. There should be no reason he can't camp closer to the football field for a few days ;)

I think drop off on Mondays at school is a great idea, but it contradicts one of my other suggestions. *Having recieving party responsible for transportation.

You might also see if ex can pick up kids early on Fridays where there is no school conflict. He could pick up direct from school vice the 6pm I believe is currently in place. This could also work if he wants to attend games.

At one time our order was written in reverse for summer. CP had kids on weeks during school NCP had mid week visit, and 1st, 2nd and 4th weekend. CP had 3rd and 5th when they feel that way. In the summer it was the excact reverse. This gave a 52/48 split in time w/breaks and holidays. ***BUT you would have to see if ex could/would be wiling to take him to practice for the increase in time????

a few ideas I hope

[kevkermit]

Just very frustrating when our children want to participate in sports, etc the ncp has fit but he can choose to give up midweeks, weekend visits because our children have poison ivy or a cold.  Makes no sense.

Just this past Wed he called and cancelled his midweek visit because he had an appointment.  

Guess I find it frustrating because I know there are many ncp's out there that have so much trouble with the cp wanting the ncp involved. Where in my situation, it seems the ncp doesn't want to be involved unless it is going to cause problems for me and our children.

[breezy]

I hope it gets better. I can see where you would be frustrated. Especially w/him making appts on days he knows he has visits.
I feel for the kids. How disappointing :(

[gipsy]

well if you want to deall with the issue , You said " ncp seems to not want visits unless it creates a problem "
  Use reverse psychology
 In my case it is the cp thats difficult , so I have to make the parenting plan the iron rule that governs , I pick up at school and made his piano lesson on my day , But rightat the pick up time so I can be involved in his piano lessons ' Because I am a piano player < And of course she wasn't really cooperating but now that the lesson is on my day lessons are a go ! . So I take the issue as an oppurtuniity to be involved in his lessons !
  reminds me of the optimist pessimist story
    their was once two boy's  from the city sent to a farm ,One boy was then sent to stack the hay , And he was told if ya stack the hay there's a surprise for ya !
   One boy was sent to clean the barn , And he was told shovel all that shit and there's a surprise for you !
   So the farmer leaves the two boy's to their task ,
   He comes back to the first boy and He didn't have much hay stacked and was down hearted ,
   So the farmer left Him and figured < He better check on the other city boy
  The second boy had all the shit shoveled , And he was excited !
 So the farmer wondered why he was so excited !
 And said " Well of the two of you you had the worst job " But you got right too it and are happy " ! How come you are so happy shoveling shit and your friend is so unhappy stacking nice clean hay "
   The boy replied "All that shit there's got to be a pony here some where !"
 
 Don't know how that will help But ! Some people find the worst in every thing ! And some make it the best they can !
  And as a note teenagers are tough for married adults and they want there own way , When you have two divorced parent's kids learn to play you both , My son is 6 yo And he sort of figured it out and tries to play ,
  SOOO watch out and as I have found with the CP in my case " If I don't do things for the """ BATTLE """ And just stay with the facts , And talk about sensible issues ,  She actually seems to be getting better ' But battleing this type is fruitless ,
  Get this " She has battled hard to make up stories and Limit My time with my son , Then when I had to leave the state for a very important event , I sent a letter stateing that I would not be able to pick up my son I get a snotty letter about  " what could be so important that I won't be their for my parenting time " And she will allow the change '
  How wierdwhen it wasn't a short time before she was arguing that I should not have any extra time with my son !
   The point is ' I have to not get into all that And deal with the issue and not say or write any snotty battle induceing letter's , And not things have changed a bit ,
   So What I am saying is you have to be the real adult here , And Be nice not battle induceing and ignore the crappola , And say Ok If this offer doesn't settle the issue for you then what do you suggest , Then listen and say " I will have to think of how that could work and then send back a response of how it will work , And get out of how it won't work because The other person is the jerk . Or 'Only seems
  it seems the ncp doesn't want to be involved unless it is going to cause problems for me and our children. Make that a non issue . And offer a solution that puts him into the driver seat . Like say Ok Here's the schedule for practice , And give it a copy and say send back a written schedule that you think will work so the kids can see you and go to sports : The he has to commit to a solution : And he can't say " you didn't tell me about this practice  or game on my day ; Then tell  Him he is welcome to be at the kids games : And if he is  Give him some space  

[kevkermit]

Thanks for the ideas.  


Currently already have motion filed and am trying to get parenting time changed regarding extracurriculars and transportation.  However, has asked the ncp to come meet with attorney and work these matters out without having to attend hearing.  Ncp hasn't attempted to schedule something so that we can work these matters out.  I know the ncp doesn't have the money to hire an attorney so I don't know why he wouldn't want to meet.

I don't have a problem with ncp having extra time with out children, I actually think it would be awesome if he would be involved with the kids and their activities but he chooses not to.  There have been many times when I mentioned that all he has to do is call if he wants to spend time with the kids.  He hasn't taken the opportunity.

Maybe I am wrong for not letting him keep the kids until 9:30 and just grinning and bearing it, but I have come to learn that I give an inch he just continues to push and push for more.  He knows full well that 9:30pm is late and I work midnights so that is why he requests to have the kids that late (in my opinion).

As far as the kids playing both parents, I believe our children play that game as well.  Try to let the kids know that if they have issues with ncp they deal with ncp on it and if they have issues with me they deal with me on it.  Kids always say they don't like ot talk to ncp about their issues there because the entire family will gang up on them.  NCP lives with wife, mil and extended family.

Thanks again for the ideas.