LAWMOE...calling for you

[Sacul]

Hello Maury,

Nice to see you here.

Maury I have a question for you again.

Do you recommend a CP or even a NCP to follow their Court Orders? One poster on DS site. Refuses to believe that can be.  Because of the "gray spots" they feel can be in the Decree.

Meaning, NO one can follow their Court Order to the Tee.

My point is to this poster was...you should try...because it's can be consider "contempt" or a violation to the other parents Legal Rights.

When I point out that even a Lawyer will tell them to read the Decree and follow their orders. This same poster replies back in so many words...that not all Lawyer know what their talking about. That we do have bad Lawyers that do give out bad advice.

As you can see we are dealing with a nut....What is your take on this?

Thank you, Lucas  :-)

[DeeDee]

It is been mine and my dh's experience that if one either cp or ncp continues to go into court to make the court order more and more specific, in essence painting one or another parent into the corner the judge tends to make things "WWWWAAAYYY OPEN"..

For example...parent child is visiting contiually returns them late....


Judge: will make the parent starting visitation/custody time responsible for transprotation.

Thing is that now NCP had no car so could never begin his/her parenting time because he/she spent her money(afdc,state aid and she was lying to the state that she still had custody for many, many years...so she had food stamps for the kids too. etc.) on her children.  It turned out that just his/her family members would pick up kids to visit...but bm wouldn't be there but for two or four hours during the visit....later just to sleep in same house as the kids.

For example:

NCP complains that they cannot feed their children meat when the kids visit because it is too expensive

Judge: Since judge cannot order spousal support(what ncp was thinking) because that would be judged as income so NCP would HAVE to pay CS..Judge decides to order CP to pay CS to NCP...of course kids STILL don't eat meat.(to get around it ncp would order cheese pizza and put scrambled eggs on top of it--ncp's relatives would pay for said pizza).

For example:

NCP demands of the court that he/she be in full knowledge of the kids educations(be present at conferences)....since he/she herself is mentally retarded (yes he/she really said that in court and went on to say even worse things about hisself/herself),  and his/her kids are having problems in school just like he/she did, but he/she was not in any sort of special needs classes like his/hers were now and he/she could save them from that.

Judge:  since ncp cannot help his/her children with homework given his/her own testimony, and did not do well and isn't currently doing so in school (been going to a two-year college for 20 years) And had no experience in the special education system then he/she cannot offer them any additional assistance than they are already receiving.

Hence ncp should have no contact with the educational systems of the schools including report cards(ncp previously recieved them before).


I suppose I'd have to say that one doesn't want to make the order more restrictive...rather more "inclusive"...

If a court order is wreaking havoc in a childs life..then there doesn't need to be less of an order, but more of one...

It worked for my dh's ex for many, many years...after the order was 16 pages long...it really began going downhill for our ncp.

We still do not have an attorney...over the past nine years we haven't found ONE that was willing to touch it even when we could afford it.

Even when the kids have GAL's they depend upon my dh and I to put the motions forth. (how wierd is that?!?).

Some judges are of the "do this" variety...Some judges are of the "don't do that variety"....A few things certain...they will always rule, and you can never be sure if they will be in a "THIS" or "THAT" mentality when they do.

Come on...an ncp who is not even making more than 30 grand a year paying CS to an NCP?!?!?!?!...a judge who orders visitation with kids who's ncp has been arrested and convicted of "assault with a deadly weapon"(among other things) against the kids"..(and NO said weapon was NOT a belt)..

I suppose if you are speaking with an attorney you should ask them, "Why?" and "Who are the judges you are dealing with?".

Also, just to let you know....our in pro per (not always, but sometimes) NCP automatically files a complaint against any judge who rules against them so NCP doesn't have to go up in front of same judge again--something an attorney would be hard pressed to do. (we are on our ninth or tenth judge in this county...we get shuffled around in our courthouse alot...criminal court, civil court, juvenile court...It's really ridiculous. I used to like to shop...now, I go out and see the 30 or 40 court reporters we've dealt with, the bailiff's, the judges, the courthouse security guards, the mediators, the cps workers, the vistation supervisors, the counselors, the psychiatrists...just everywhere we go so many familiar faces, it would be comforting BUT, we live in such a METROPOLITAIN AREA!)

We are known as those folks who are here as much as attorneys...Matter of fact, for a number of years, they thought I was my dh's attorney rather than his wife--asking me how much I charge for a client like my dh.(long story there other than we are in court anywhere from 8 to 36 times per year). We actually get waved through the "employee" line at the metal detectors.(quite disgusting as we have only filed ONE osc EVER!) It's bad...when the county court clerk see's me in line she tells the aid in back to "bring out the cart"...One time I came to get a single criminal record...they all stood around that little hole in the window and cheered for me.(Who am I kidding, they cheered for themselves LOL).

All I know, is that if you go to court, you better have a good reason and be prepared to back up your reason, and be prepared to argue why the order should be changed. Also, you need to be prepared to argue/state why the change will not be a "tit-for-tat" litigation experience that the judge is going to have come up in front of him again the next year.

Dee

(who doesn't think one shouldn't hire an attorney(if we could afford it we most certainly would), but sure is glad of all the attorney advice she received over the years...even if she didn't like it).

[DeeDee]

sheesh, hate to reply to myself...but follow the order...follow the order as you understand it....not interpret it..(let a bunch of laymen read said order..judge may give a little bit of lee-way for a lay-person...but not an attorney who has been in court many, many, many times...

If you go to an attorney...well...LawMoe will interpret that as any attorney would...

Just have to add, that when my dh(cp) moved with the kids...(in state, order only said cannot move out of state, and must notify Child support services of change of address--which he did),  dh told ncp, gave ncp our addreess via mail, ncp lied and said she never received it (hurray for registered mail)...

However, that did not stop ncp for reporting her kids kidnapped therefore, did not stop the FBI from knocking on our door  demanding the kids and trying to arrest dh until they saw the court order.

We could present the court order...and what we did wasn't wrong..but if it was a 50/50, joint sort of custody agreement. I suppose I could be posting this from a state pen..and my dh posting a lot longer than I ever would.

[Lawmoe]

The parties must follow the provisions of a Court order. If they do not, they may be found in contempt.  

If the Court Order has provisions that are subject to more than one reasonable interpretation, then it would be difficult to enforce that provision since reasonable confusion occurred.

[Lawmoe]

It is a defense to a Motion for contempt that coliance with teh order was not possible.  Contempt requires a willful refusal to follow orders.

[Sacul]

Your saying that if it's not completed or if it's an order thats open. Then no one can follow it?

If that is what your saying, then I understand that. Things can be twisted and so on.

But Maury this poster is going for things like.

Clothes lets say.     "Who said that a CP has to give clothes for the child to bring to the NCP home. If it's not order in the Decree"...

Maury when a CP has nothing better to do then to think of stuff this corny. To me they need HELP.  It's like their trying to find a word or miss spelled word in the Decree...to start a fight.  I strongly feel that the Decree is not there to teach you common sense.

After awhile you wonder who is the parent? The parent or the child?

I don't know how you do this daily Maury? Good man for it...

Lucas

[Lawmoe]

You are correct.  if it is not in the order, you cannot seek an order for contempt. If the order does not specifically require each parent to contribute to school clothes, for example, then there is no obligation to do so.