What to do when when a child is not encouraged to visit

[Don_and_Lindsay]

We moved to another state this summer and the custodial parent (mother) has also moved from another state and temporarily is staying with my 11-year-old daughter in her grandparents home a few minutes away for a few months until her husband is done with training for his new job in another state.  Normally my daughter is flown to me and stays with me for a month and a half.  At first she is always whiny and manipulative for a week or so until she adjusts to our home and then everything goes much much better for the remainder of the visit.  This year is very different however, because her Mom is closeby and everytime she does not get her way she calls Mom to pick her up and only returns if our family is planning a fun activity like bowling or an amusment park.
During past visits, our family takes the opportunity to show my daughter how a family shares and cares about one another by listening and communicating our needs without demanding and manipulating but we have not had that time this year.  There is not enough time to share and instill values that she needs during the busy activity visits.  I find myself getting scared and angry with the way that she acts and I feel helpless.
I don't know what my rights are for visitation when the child does not want to stay but I feel like I am being denied consistant and meaningful family time that makes a difference in me and my daughter's life.  I will not see her again until next summer.
I have asked her mother to encourage her to stay with me but she does not respond positively and I believe she may even be encouraging my daughter not to stay with me.

Any help or advice is appreciated and thank you in advance.

[dsm]

Then don't allow her to leave.  She can call your ex all she wants, but explain to your ex that it is not an option for her to come and get her when things don't go her way.

Be prepared that your ex will probably throw a huge fit, but too bad.  This is a CHILD who is manipulating the adults.  And is probably getting encouraged to call her mother when she doesn't like what is going on in your home.  Either you put your foot down, or it will only get worse.  Another option is - if she does go back to her mother's, then she doesn't go with you on the next 'fun' day.   Either way, you need to take the bull by the horns and set the expectation.

Good luck!
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dsm - 34
DH - 38
SD - 15
LO - 9
BB - 2
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2 Cheap Entertainment cats - Snoop & Dagger - 5 years and counting.....

[Don_and_Lindsay]

Thank you so much for your reply...it is very encouraging.
However, there is more...The custodial Mother left my son with me as of last year before school and said that she could not deal with him anymore.  We were very grateful to get him because he was in an emotional mess and we did not have the money for a custody battle, but in exchange she had me sign a informal detailed list of demands including continued child support to give him to us so that it is next to impossible to afford to gain custody of him it seems.  The upside:  He is now a much much healthier and happier child with goals and communication skills and friends.  (Can't beat that)
Anyway, I am always afraid to rock the boat with the mother in fear that she will take my son and afraid to rock the boat with my daughter in fear of losing our relationship.
I am not sure what to do.  I have consulted with a lawyer but will need a $2500 retainer to begin proceedings for custody of my son and more if I were to attempt to pursue custody of my daughter.  I have exhausted all of my financial and credit resources between taking care of my son while paying child support and the recent move.  I'm sure I sound like I am whining now and I am not sure what I need; but any resources, advice or encouragement is very appreciated.  It seems like my daughter's entire future is flashing before my eyes and she has no idea how much I love her.

[jilly]

You should never have agreed to "a informal detailed list of demands".  That's extortion and that's illegal.  You've given the ex control of your household and your actions.  The ex has also basicaly proven that all the kids are to her is a paycheck.  Making you pay money for a child that is no longer in her home is called selling a child.  Again, that's illegal.

Post this on Socrateaser's forum on this site and he'll tell you the same thing.

I recommend getting the book "Divorce Poison". It can help you deal with the brainwashing the Mother is using on the daughter.

[Don_and_Lindsay]

Thank you and I agree with you.
...but, if I could not get my son without signing the papers and did not have the money it takes to go into a custody battle, what was the alternative to signing her paper?

I do have a copy of that paper and was hoping that I would later be able to use it to my advantage in court, showing the mother's intentions and motives.  She does not realize that she is wrong in doing this at all.  She is very self-centered and lives her life in a bliss of unawareness.  My daughter is meanwhile following in her footsteps.

Does anyone know if I would have a chance at all doing research myself and appearing before the Judge pro se?  If so, does anyone have any good web addresses for preparation study and access to forms?

Has anyone tried buying the Law Insurance I have seen on various web advertisments?  Is this helpful at all?  

Has anyone had a case of custody like mine whereas they were able to require the mother to pay partial court costs?


Thank you again.

[joni]

my grandma always said...you gotta lay down to be a doormat

Your daughter sounds like mommy's spoiled little princess and your Ex is enabling this situation to be the favorite parent.

You have to put your foot down, follow the court order you have in place.  If mom doesn't follow the court order, it's contempt.  Take her to court (or tell her you're going to) and get a court order for makeup time during the Christmas or school break holidays.

[dsm]

There are people who have done it.   We were pro se for a long time and even when we did retain a lawyer we had 90% of the work done and just needed him to be sure that the right paperwork was filed and it helped to confirm where we stood on things - also gave us a liason for our PB's idiocity.

You now have status quo with your son.  I would petition the court for your child support to change due to the fact that son is living with you and has lived with you for the past year.  At the very least, you should obtain a credit that way.  And then use that money to start socking away for custody of your daughter if you feel that is the best.   Make sure you have your documentation in order - all your t's crossed, i's dotted.  Yes, that paper that you signed very well may help to prove your ex's intentions are money-motivated versus child's best interest motivated.  

Your daughter is 11, yes?  My LO is getting ready to turn 10 and she has seen the gamut with teenage angst and attitude with my SD (who will turn 16 in a few weeks).....LO can throw quite an attitude and you know what?  There is no way that we let her get away with it.  We don't let my SD get away with it either.   SD for a long time played our house against her mom's - and she would stand back and watch the fireworks.  Finally we decided to diffuse the fireworks and no longer reacted when her mom would call spewing all kinds of atrocities and wrong-ness that we dished out to SD.  If SD complained to her mom that we were 'mean' to her, and PB would complain to my DH that SD should be treated different - 'you're entitled to your opinion' became the standard response.  I realize that you see your relationship with your daughter to be on the line and at a fragile spot.  But if you allow her to have control over when she is with you and  when she is not...then that is not the kind of relationship that you want (I don't think anyway) - you want  her to respect you and appreciate you.  Realize that the appreciation is not going to happen for about 10 years - because she hasn't even begun the teenage alien years.....and if you don't nip it now, you will find that she has every excuse in the book for why she can't come spend time with you.   So, yeah, stand your ground.  And no matter how much she whines and hollers, you keep her for your entire time with her.  She is allowed to be angry and all that - but she is not allowed to be disrespectful and not allowed to run to her mother when things don't go her way.  Make sense?

Now, for the law insurance.....if you are talking about prepaid legal......be careful.  I know when we were trying to figure out how we were going to do this prepaid ended up being okay for wills and trusts, but was not a good thing for family law.   Take advantage of the free consultations - get your documentation together first, take your last order (or in your case your agreement that you signed with BM), and go talk with a few (more than one!) and see what options you have.   You may even find that there will be one who will help you file and make sure you have everything documented and filled out right and then you just go and appear.   Before you agree to anything then, you request for 5-10 days to be able to review with legal counsel and then get your advice.  Socrateaser on SPARC is very good as well.  Bounce ideas off of him.

Hope that helps.   Hang in there dad......you can get through this!!!
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dsm - 34
DH - 38
SD - 15
LO - 9
BB - 2
------------------
2 Cheap Entertainment cats - Snoop & Dagger - 5 years and counting.....

[flewwellin]

If it's a court order and not just a verbal agreement then your ex has no right to be picking up your daughter.  Your daughter hasn't got the power to decide where she wants to spend her time from day to day.  Thus she is called a minor.  She needs to be told that she isn't allowed to do what she is doing and if your ex picks her up for whatever reason other than one you have agreed upon with her as the parent then I'd file a motion of contempt stating that the mother is interfering in your visitation times.  

[flewwellin]

Do you still have the document in which the mother made you sign agreeing to pay child support for your son but allowing you to have custody of him?  If so I'd take her to court for a reduction of child support because you now have custody of your son she willingly handed him over.  The document she made you sign is illegal, she made you PAY to have your son live with you.  Also depending on how old your son is I'd say after the child support mess is straightened out I'd go for custody of your son and request that the judge speak with him in his chambers and let your son tell the judge what he has been through and how the move to your home has greatly improved his life, and schooling.

Second I wouldn't try to gain custody of your daughter if I were you. She doesn't seem to want to be there I would however make it a point to enforce EVERY visitation that you are scheduled to have with her and file for a contempt if the mother doesn't follow the order.