How to disengage? (Extremely long)

[purrrfectgirl]

DH and I have been together for over 5 years now, and married about 1.5.  We've been through everything thanks to his wonderful PB ex-wife.  We've seen astronomically high CS orders, we've had the time with the children dramatically reduced, he's been sent to jail (and not for owing CS, he actually has over $2500 in credit as it stands).  And though it has all hurt (a lot!).  It was always something I could live with.  Her attacking us was okay.   I can take the pain and so can my husband.  We're adults.  

But the ting that drives me the most nuts is how she treats (or doesn't treat in some cases) the children.  DH and PB had three kids before she cheated on him (had an abortion of the other man's child while still living with DH, but that's beside the point).  They are good kids at heart.  When they all lived together the kids got all A's and a few B's.  C's were not to be tolerated beyond 1 quarter.  But since he's been gone we've watched the children's grades continue to slip.  In the past she had both of his sons in the psychologist's office for alleged ADHD (she got medicine for it, but as soon as she realized she had to pay money for it because there was a co-pay she stopped giving it to them; not that they needed it, she just did it to show DH she could put them on drugs and there was nothing he could do about it).  Well, during their ADHD evaluation both kids were given IQ tests.  The oldest son scored near genius.  The youngest son scored well above average.  So neither of these children are stupid.  However, it is looking as if both of these kids are going to fail this year!  Two extremely intelligent kids are going to fail.  Of course PB is all for this because she gets to extend her CS if the kids fail.  I am having a really hard time dealing with the fact that she can just let them fail.  They are in 10 and 6 grade, 15 and 12 yrs. old, respectively.  So here's my first question. We have written statement by a psychologist saying how intelligent these two boys are.  If they fail, do you think the judge would consider changing custody because these children obviously have more potential than is being utilized?

Now on to the real topic.  How to disengage.  I here the virtues of this practice mentioned here frequently, but I seem to be horrible at implementing it.  There is the example above, mom lets them do this and I just want to ring their necks.  These boys could do so much better; they're just not trying.  And it hurts to watch their father suffer while they do so poorly even thought they can do better.  I want to intercede on DH's behalf and pull these kids together.  But there's not much I can do.  Another example.  SD loves animals.  Dogs, cats, horses, any animal is fine with her.  The past 2 Christmases she was very vehement that she wanted to move out of mom's house and come live with us.  She just turned 12 in December so we didn't think we had a shot at getting her opinion heard before now.  Well, in the past whenever mom wanted SD to say something in court (like SD never wants to see dad again – that one hurt hubby a lot!) she buys SD a pet.  Then after SD has done her job and said what she is supposed to say the animal is disposed of (mysteriously dies while SD is at school, SS opens door while SD is at school and animal runs away – mom get SS to lie for her, goes to a happier home in the country, is sent to the pound, and on one occasion, it was sent to our house – that was over 2 years ago and we still have that cat!).  This is crushed SD. She has been through 5 cats, 3 dogs, and numerous small animals (chinchillas, guinea pig, hamster, etc) in the last five years.  Well, PB must have gotten wind that SD wanted to come live with us.  And now she is promising her horseback riding lessons.  It's a summer camp for kids to come and learn how to care for and ride horses.  Best-case scenario PB will take her for one week and then it will become inconvenient for PB and SD will never go again. SD has said on several occasions that her mom's nothing but a big liar so what I mentioned is the best-case scenario.  More than likely SD will never go at all.  But PB knows we don't want to pull the kids out in the middle of the school year, so if she can keep SD hooked long enough over the summer, then she'll get SD (or better yet, SD's CS) for another year.  And I just want to shake SD and say, can't you see what your mom's doing?  Can't you see she's lying to you again?  Can't you see this is only going to hurt you again!  And every time PB does this, the kids come crying to DH and I to fix it.  So this leads to my main question.

How do I disengage?  How do I protect myself from this heart wrenching stuff?  I can't stand to see these kids suffer, but I can't fix all their problems.  DH has become so frustrated with the system and its hopelessness that he has stopped trying to fix it.  Is that what I need to do?

[bananas]

I was never able to effectively disengage.  I don't know if this really hurt the situation or not, but here's my story:

I'm pretty sure my stepkids hate me now, but I'm not sure if it's because I never disengaged, or if it's due to active negative campaigning on the part of pbfh.  Probably both.  It's easier for the kids to hate me than like me, and since I didn't disengage, I gave them lots of ammunition to use against me.  I'm sure pbfh loves to hear the kids say they hate me.  The kids were forced to choose a long time ago, and they've put up some protective barriers.  They keep me on the outside.  

SS (age 20) has chosen not to move here, after saying for MONTHS that he and his gf were going to move back to Ohio and start their lives here.  Although hubby wants what's best for SS, hubby is heartbroken.  He was really looking forward to finally living in the same town as his son, and until about a week ago, we thought it was a sure thing.  We were wrong.  Hubby tried to tell himself that he wasn't counting on anything until it actually happened, but he was just too excited about this prospect.  The fact that SS has chosen not to move here is probably my fault, but I'm not sure.  Maybe the idea that the military is a better choice for him is really his own idea, and it has nothing to do with me.  I hope so.  Hubby and I wish him well, regardless.  He's a smart guy with lots of potential.

Also, SD (age 18) and hubby have not spoken in months, which is probably also my fault since I laid it on the line with her about my feelings, which was apparently unacceptable.  She'll listen to everything pbfh dishes out, but if I have an opinion, I get blocked.  When I told SD last fall that her mom was lying to her, using her, and stealing from her, SD's response was "'Bananas', I don't need YOU to tell me about my mother".    Like I said, they keep me on the outside.  Easier that way.  SD is going to stay in TX and go to college there, according to SS.  Hubby and I wish her well also, and we're sure she will achieve her goals.  

Hubby dealt with a blow four years ago when his ex moved away.  What was a seemingly easy and inconsequential decision for his kids was a killer for hubby.  The best way for him to deal with it was to just pretend that his kids were grown-up at that time.  Gone for him were the days of having any kind of day-to-day, or even week-to-week participation in their lives.  Hubby used to be a dad, but he hasn't been one in a long time.  (BTW, we too dealt with the kids' pets "suddenly" dying or disappearing while the kids were at our house.  This happened with dogs AND horses.)  I think hubby has dealt with the loss of the parent/child relationship really well.

Back to the subject:  Regardless of my desire to disengage, and having been given the "rules" of disengaging, I could never quite do it.  I think it was because I didn't think my hubby was doing enough for his kids or himself.  I felt I had to step in.  However, in retrospect, what my opinions were and what was best for everyone were probably two different things.  I was pretty selfish and had to try to exert some control over a situation that I had no control over, and I could never reign in my compulsion to do that.  

Hopefully someone here will give you some great advice (I know they will) and it'll work for you!  I know that this post is pretty negative, but I don't mean to say that if you don't disengage, that all is lost.  This is just my perspective, and despite the fact that many of our situations are similar, there are things and circumstances and personalities that make them all different.  If you don't disengage, you might find other ways to deal with your situation that will work too.

And I know that all three of them (SD, SS, and pbfh) read these boards, and I'll probably catch some more slack from SD about discussing "her life" here.  However, I need to vent on occasion (yes, still) and share my experiences with others in the hopes that it helps them.  SD has a couple of choices:  1.  She can stop reading here (as she has been advised in the past, since this board was really not intended for her), since all this board does is hurt her; or 2.  She can go see a shrink and discuss with him/her why she wants me to stop posting.  SD has as much control over my actions as I do over hers.  None.  A therapist would probably be a good choice for SD at this point anyway.

If dealing with the pbfh and residual fallout is the worst thing that happens to me in my life, then I am lucky.  So far, it is, and I am!

[purrrfectgirl]

I don't know if it's really a control issue with me or hubby.  I mean when the kids started to slip to C's we held our tongues.  When they slipped to constant D's, we had to bite our tongues.  But failing is something that should not be happening.  But I also know that at least not all of my s-kids hate me.  SD regularly tells me how she gets a long with me so much better than her mom.  Their mom has tried very hard to wage a negative campaign against me and hubby, but thanks to our cool-heads and groundedness, the kids have never beleieved her.  I don't want to run the kids off, but failing school should ne be acceptable to kids that intelligent!  Thanks for the help!

[joni]

this book saved my sanity, recommended by several people on this board.  it helped me to disengage.

http://www.miguelruiz.com/  

The Four Agreements

[Brent]

Author Unknown
No grammatical or other corrections to original article.
Note the following: DH=husband, SK=stepkid

I believe (my libber genes go crazy with this one) that men & women convey different facets of life to their children. Women tend to be concerned with socialization: manners, morals, respect, appreciation, cleanliness, thoughtfulness, etc, as well as physical & emotional health. Men tend to be concerned with results: touchdowns, batting averages, spelling bees, "accomplishments" in general. (You know, the really important stuff!). In normal (not critically dysfunctional) nuclear families, this arrangement works pretty well.

The children develop bonds with their parents which permit the parents to maintain the "moral authority" to deal with their kids. Most of these men think they've been great parents, & have terrific kids who could be loved by anyone. Then they get divorced & eventually marry us, expecting everything to function in the same way that it did in the first marriage. The problem is, they have no idea beyond their own personal, limited "input" what is involved in raising kids. One stepmom on one of the boards made the remark "I just don't understand how his 4 year old son can be sitting directly between him & the TV, & he doesn't see the kid playing with a lighter!" I believe he doesn't see because he's never had to. There has always been a woman in his life who takes care of "that stuff."

When we as stepmoms come into the lives of these people, many of us already mothers to our own biokids, we willingly assume that we can expand our mothering role to include our new SKs, intending to keep on doing what we've been doing. Even those who have never had children of their own have those "mothering genes." Our problem is that we don't have the bonding with these kids that is required to give us the "moral authority" to parent our SKs. The only way we can get that "authority" is through our DHs, & he must give it to us by expecting & demanding that his kids respond to us with obedience & respect, or at least respectful behavior.

THAT is what is meant by a supportive DH. Most of them THINK they are supportive, & many of US think they are supportive. But unless they are willing to discipline their children every single time they speak disrespectfully to us, or ignore us, or disobey us, they are giving their children permission to continue & sometimes escalate, this behavior. And because our DHs have NEVER had to be mothers, they don't know what we're talking about when we try to get their help. They are still being the same parents they were when they were married to their exes, things worked out ok there, so they assume that the problem is US!

The more we "nag" & point out what's wrong with their kids, the more convinced they become that we have no parenting skills . The more we are determined that these kids ARE GOING TO MIND US, the more parenting we do. And the more parenting we do, the less our DHs have to do. Which is exactly the way they want it. They would rather we didn't scream so much, but we're getting the job done (the kids brush their teeth when we're red in the face, they go to bed when we have spittle spewing). Dad can just keep on being a father, which means he doesn't fool with this stuff. But he's still thinking we're crazy, & can't understand why we're so mean to his kids. In addition, our "criticism" of his kids is seen as a criticism of him.

DH is not a mother, has never been a mother, & doesn't know what it means or requires to be a mother. DH is content being the same parent he has always been, & thinks his kids are fine the way they are. He's just as confused as we are about why we're having so many problems with our SKs, but in his heart, he believes that we are at fault.

Now we come to the kids themselves. Here we have children who, for the most part, have been raised by two parents with whom they are bonded & for whom they accept the power of their bioparents authority. We stepmoms come into their lives with no bond & with no authority. But we blindly assume the role of mother in our own homes, & all the responsibility involved. After the "honeymoon" with the kids is over, if we even have that period of peace & tranquility, the kids begin to test the waters. Now, keep in mind, they do this with their bioparents too, but quickly submit to the authority of these people for whom they have respected & admired since birth.

They look to DH to see what they can get by with, because they have no intention of submitting to our authority until they are made to do so. DH has never involved himself in these struggles between his ex & his kids, because she can handle it herself. He doesn't see the problem. The kids don't know that he can't see the problem. They think he is giving them unspoken permission to defy us. And so they do. The struggles become more angry, more bitter, more frustrating.

And another amazing thing occurs. In some cases, we give these kids their first real taste of power. With their parents, they are willing to submit, because if nothing else, they fear the loss of their parents' approval. They feel no such need to have our approval. They find that with the mere shrug of a shoulder or a rolling of the eyes that they can turn a big strong adult into a raging maniac. By this time, we have become so frustrated, everything they do infuriates us. And in getting by with disrespectful behavior (& they get by with it because DH doesn't stop it), they are encouraged to even greater heights of disrespect, & gaining an even greater sense of power. We end up handing these kids tremendous power over us, on a silver platter, & they love it.

There we are, doing all the work (laundry, grocery shopping, cooking, chauffeuring, supplying needs, the list is endless), doing everything reasonable to maintain our family as we had envisioned, and these kids are treating us like bugs on the soles of their shoes. We are raging to our DHs, who can't understand why we're so angry, & we're wondering what we're doing here, working our rears off, trying to raise these children, feeling abused & unappreciated by DH AND his kids. Sometimes we think about divorce.

Now it's time to disengage.

In order to successfully disengage, you have to accept some realities. They are:

1. Your SKs are not your children.

2. You are not responsible for overcoming their previous "raising."

3. You are not responsible for what kind of people they are.

4. You are not responsible for what kind of people they become.

5. You are not obligated to become an abused member of the household just because you married their dad.

6. You are not responsible for raising your SKs.

7. All the responsibility belongs to your DH.

8. Your DH is not a mother.

9. Your DH is not going to raise his children the way you want him to.

10. Your SKs are not going to turn out the way they would if DH supported you.

What all this means is this: You must stop parenting your SKs. You must stop telling them what is expected of them. You must stop disciplining them. You must turn over all responsibility for them to your DH. You must allow DH to make whatever mistakes he makes.

But first, you must explain to DH & SKs what is happening. This is what you say: "Everyone is unhappy, our home is miserable, & I'm completely frustrated & angry all the time. You kids are angry & frustrated with me, & >it's getting worse. Someone has to do something about this, & I decided that it will be me. I have decided that I will no longer be responsible for getting you to bed on time, or getting you up in the mornings. I will not tell you to wash your hands before dinner, & I will not tell you to brush your teeth or take a bath. (You must list all those things for which you have assumed responsibility, whatever they are). I am no longer going to do anything that will give you the opportunity to treat me with disrespect. In the future, if you need anything, you must ask your dad.

I will no longer take responsibility for (whatever, getting your school supplies, shopping for your clothes, doing your laundry, taking you to basketball practice, etc.) What I hope to accomplish is for us to begin to get along with each other, & the only way I know to do that is to let your dad be the parent." Many of you may be saying, does all this mean I have no rights? Absolutely not. You must choose your battles, & to disengage, your battles should be about those things that DIRECTLY affect you. For example, you have a right to keep your home with the degree of neatness & cleanliness that you desire (just leave the SKs rooms alone & concentrate on the communal areas).

You can say, "From now on, I expect everyone to put their stuff away by bedtime. Since I will no longer be asking you to do it because I don't want to argue with you, anything that is left out after 9:00 will be disposed." Period, no discussion, just do it. If it's important to DH for his kids to keep their "stuff," HE will parent his children, or do it himself. "If you don't clear the table after dinner, I will not set a place for you at the next meal." Period, no discussion, just do it If it's important to DH for his kids to eat, HE will parent his children, or do it himself. "If you leave your dirty clothes on the floor in the bathroom, they will be disposed." Are you getting the idea?

You see, the REAL problem is not between you & your SKs, it's between you & your DH. These children are HIS responsibility, & if he wants good things for them, he will parent them. If he doesn't care (believe me, he really does!), why should you beat your head against the wall?

My son ALWAYS had a bedtime, my SSs NEVER had a bedtime. Now I tend to my son, & let DH tend to his. If he wants them to get a good night's sleep, he will parent them. If it's not important to him, I don't make it my concern.

My DH goes to work at 5:30 AM, which leaves me the task of getting everyone up & ready for school. It used to be a nightmare getting my younger SS up, he would growl & yell & scream, & roll over & go back to sleep until I was screaming my lungs out, jerking the covers off. Every day started like that, & I was miserable every evening, thinking about my next morning's task. So....I just stopped. I told DH to get him an alarm clock. And I told DH that if he wanted to help his son start his day well, he might consider making sure that SS goes to bed at a reasonable hour, but that I would no longer make it my concern. SS missed 2 days of school because he wouldn't get up, & I refused to make a second trip to take him there. DH decided to parent his son. He did it without being home by using consequences if his son did not get up in time to get ready for school.

The point is this: DH must decide what is important to HIM. You must be willing to put up with some degree of inconvenience to "allow" him to parent his children. But whatever inconvenience you suffer will be minor compared to the conflict that might be part of your life right now. My DH stepped up to the plate. Your DH might not. But that's HIS decision. Don't expect him to agree with your "new position." He doesn't agree with your current position. Don't expect him to like what you are doing - or to be more precise - not doing. The less YOU do, the more HE must do, & that will not make him happy. You must remember that he has no right to expect more parenting from you than he is willing to do himself.

You may be thinking, this is nuts! We agreed to be "parents" to each other's children. Yes, but he also agreed to be a parent to his OWN children. None >of this means that you can't do ANYTHING. It's very likely that DH will need your help. That's OK. The issue here is that DH must ASK you for your help, instead of what you've been doing - assuming the responsibility & being unappreciated for it.

When DH needs something done that he can't do himself (a ride for one of the kids while he's a work, for example), first, you have already told the kids "Go ask dad." So DH is REQUIRED to become involved in his children's lives. He now must THINK ABOUT what's involved in raising his kids, & we all know it's a lot of work. And you can agree to help out, only if DH asks. BUT, to disengage, you must be willing to withdraw your agreement to help IF the kids, between now & the event, treat you disrespectfully! And you must refuse to assist next time if DH & the kids don't say "Thank you." You also have a RIGHT to have your efforts appreciated.

When you begin to value yourself in this whole relationship by expecting to be treated with respect & appreciation, you'll feel a lot better. When I say "to value yourself" I mean that if your efforts are not appreciated - don't do it! Sometimes the SKs will think, "Well, we're in the car on the way to the ballgame, now I'm home free to be disrespectful!" BAM! They smart off to you! Well, turn that car around & take them back home - don't raise your voice or act insulted or point out how ungrateful they are. Just say "I'm sorry you've decided to treat me disrespectfully. I must withdraw my offer to take you."

BTW, these are also good methods of getting your OWN children's respectful behavior!

I know, from my own experience, just how hard it is to "let go." But it's up to you to make the choice - "Am I going to continue to live in this awful situation, or am I going to do something about it." While you fear what will happen to everyone when you "disengage," as if the family will fall apart, you will be surprised at the change in your own life. I can't guarantee that everything will turn out the way it has for me, but I can guarantee that you will no longer feel angry, frustrated, resentful, & hurt. The HARDEST part is giving up the need to straighten out these kids & "change" them into the children YOU want them to be.

[purrrfectgirl]

I think I have read this somewhere beofre.  I'm glad you posted it here for me to read again, it helped.  But as far as the kids and the situation goes, disrespect is not really a problem.  I will try these tactics and see if they help.  It's just really hard to watch these kids go back to their mom time and time agian and get hurt.  I guess I want emotional diengagement, if that makes any sense.  Their mom berates them so bad about how disrepectful they are, that they thank us for everything.  Like just today, SD is really into horses, she loves to ride them (although rarely has the chance because mom says it's "too expensive").  She's had websites about them and is basically obsessed.  Well, today DH and I took her to a tack and feed store near our house.  She thanked us about five times in the store, and two or three more after we left.  But again tanks for the advice.  I will try to put it to use.